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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 08:03 AM
Original message
Apartheid assassins meet match in Iraq
By Gavin du Venage in Cape Town
April 27, 2004
SOME of the worst human rights violators of the apartheid era, including a man who helped kill 14 civilians while they slept, have been employed as security contractors in Iraq.

A South African killed in Iraq two weeks ago once worked for a secret apartheid death squad known as the Civil Co-operation Bureau. The CCB specialised in assassinating civilians who sympathised with black liberation movements.

Gray Branfield, 55, was the latest South African casualty with a record of human rights abuse to have obtained lucrative employment with one of the many private security companies operating in Iraq. His decapitated and mutilated body was found after a gunfight between Shi'ite radicals and Ukrainian forces in Kut, 185km southeast of Baghdad.

Author Peter Stiff says Branfield spent most of his life working for various covert units and developed a fearsome reputation.

He began his career as a policeman in Rhodesia, now Zimbabwe, where he joined an elite paramilitary unit. His colleagues called him "hound dog" because of his talent for sniffing things out. His enemies called him "bushman" because of his tenacity in hunting guerillas in the toughest terrain.

more
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,9400583%255E2703,00.html
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. UGH, good riddance
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. Amen!
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NuttyFluffers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
2. i have little pity for mercenaries
people who abandon family, nation, morality, reason, and humanity for the god of bloodlust and money are not but monsters in human form. it is a level of compassion and forgiveness that i have not the strength to give.

i can forgive many things in life, and even when i can't forgive i can mourn for the lost humanity. but in the case of mercenaries i find that i cannot. they have routely lived a life so beyond the pale that i find only justice in their deaths. to god i deliver their memory for judgment, for with me i have nothing more than contempt.

it is like machiavelli says in 'the prince,' mercenaries are not to be trusted, and if used should be ruthlessly exploited and disposed of.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Custer Battles Iraqis in Alamo
A new word order



Imagine that: The Iraqis of Fallujah in "the Alamo" and a British "security contractor," with previous experience in Northern Ireland, working for the oddly named Custer Battles, a Virginia "security firm," and dying in the Iraqi town of Hit. Custer Battles, by the way, also "has the airport security contract in Baghdad. Airport security in this context does not mean bored attendees standing by an X-ray machine, but rather former Green Berets and Ghurka fighters defending the airport from mortars, rockets and snipers."



So we now have potential Iraqi Davy Crocketts and Jim Bowies facing off against the modern equivalent of "the Seventh Cavalry," filled with Gurkhas, Chileans of the Pinochet regime, South African former death squad members, former British special forces officers, American ex-Seals and the like amid what Alissa Rubin of the Los Angeles Times calls a "culture of impunity" in Iraq. Though she's referring to the world of Iraqi kidnappers and assassins, the word "impunity," which means "exemption from punishment, penalty, or harm," and has an old-fashioned imperial edge to it, also catches something of the Bush administration stance toward Iraq and the greater world.



The men of Custer Battles guard Baghdad's airport, while the men of Blackwater USA -- if still waters run deep, how do blackwaters run, and where do they get these names? -- four of whom were killed and mutilated in Fallujah, provide the fulltime security team of ten guarding our "administrator" in Iraq, L. Paul Bremer, and various members of the Iraqi Governing Council (SF Chronicle, 4/1/9/04). They are part of a new word and world order taking disheveled shape in what may indeed become the "killing fields" of Iraq, an order that we have no reasonable language whatsoever to describe.



In Imperial China, a new dynastic emperor ascending the throne performed a ceremony involving what was called "the rectification of names." This was on the theory that the previous dynasty had fallen, in part, because the gap between reality and the way it was named had grown to abyss-like proportions. Of course, this yawning gap between the world out there and the words used to describe it has been an essential aspect of Bush-induced American reality since September 11, 2001. It has been at the heart of the American bubble (like the moving "bubble" within which our President travels the world, emptying the centers of whole cities as he passes by in the process of creating some kind of Potemkin planet).


more
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=15&ItemID=5397
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oblivious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. That was an eloquent statement.
I can only agree.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Welcome to DU!
Damn. That was well said!

:toast:
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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
27. Isn't is a horror that this entire Fallouja Apocalypse is in
response to the mutalation of 4 mercenaries? What kind of Karma results from vengence of the killing such monsters?


How many swimming pools full of blood have been already shed in revenge of the 4 deaths?
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. It is an abuse of the USMC or any US military unit to take reprisals
for mercenaries imo plus shutting down newspapers and targeting world press isn't democratic or wise either:grr:
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
6. Yep, in the world outside of George W. Bush aka The War President
Edited on Tue Apr-27-04 08:54 AM by bobthedrummer
there is righteous condemnation of mercenaries, yet, The War President employs them with our taxes.

He also abuses the USMC into taking reprisals for the loss of mecenaries paid for with our taxes:grr:

My dad was a WWII USMC, (604th Platoon) he fought against militarism and fascism, and, like all Americans defending our US Constitution-which is US not some POS mercenary.

They are big political contributors, these mercenaries that make a killing off war for profit under the administration of The War President.
http://www.publicintegrity.org/wow/resources.aspx?act=contrib
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. EVERY DEATH CREATES MORE ENEMIES
Edited on Tue Apr-27-04 10:01 AM by seemslikeadream
MORE TERRORISTS
MORE DANGER
MORE DEATH

AND REMEMBER....
HE IS JUST GETTING STARTED

http://www.bushflash.com/pax.html











NEW PICTURES FROM IRAQ
http://home.wi.rr.com/davef/iraq4.htm
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
8. Ugh. What a VILE thug: Iraq Victim Was Top-Secret Apartheid Killer
Edited on Tue Apr-27-04 08:50 AM by Tinoire
Iraq Victim Was Top-Secret Apartheid Killer

Sunday Times (Johannesburg)

April 18, 2004
Posted to the web April 19, 2004


Julian Rademeyer
Johannesburg

A security contractor killed in Iraq last week was once one of South Africa's most secret covert agents, his identity guarded so closely that even the Truth and Reconciliation Commission did not discover the extent of his involvement in apartheid's silent wars.

Gray Branfield, 55, admitted to being part of a death squad which gunned down Joe Gqabi, the ANC's chief representative and Umkhonto weSizwe operational head in Zimbabwe on July 31 1981. Gqabi was shot 19 times when three assassins ambushed him as he reversed down the driveway of his Harare home.

Author Peter Stiff this week confirmed information that Branfield was an operative identified in his books, The Silent War, Warfare By Other Means and Cry Zimbabwe as "Major Brian". He said Branfield, a former detective inspector in the Rhodesian police force specialising in covert operations against guerrilla organisations, came to South Africa after Zanu-PF came to power in 1980.

<snip>

In South Africa he joined the SA Defence Force's secret Project Barnacle, a precursor to the notorious Civil Co-operation Bureau (CCB) death squad. Given the rank of major, Branfield was put in charge of operations in the urban centres of Zimbabwe, Botswana and Zambia.

<snip>

Branfield arranged a meeting with the investigating officer in the case, Inspector Fred Varkevisser, a man he knew personally. When attempts to cajole Varkevisser into releasing Gericke failed, Branfield and other agents overpowered the policeman and strapped an explosive belt around his waist.

<snip>

http://allafrica.com/stories/200404190944.html

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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
9. Private security firms call for more firepower in combat zone
Private security firms call for more firepower in combat zone

Coalition forces do little to help as bodyguards protecting foreign workers are targeted by deadly insurgents

Jamie Wilson
Saturday April 17, 2004
The Guardian

Private military companies guarding foreign contractors in Iraq are demanding the right to carry more powerful weapons after the deaths of a number of bodyguards during a series of major battles with Iraqi insurgents.

The Guardian has obtained details of a firefight in the town of Kut, 100 miles south-east of Baghdad, between Iraqi insurgents and five security personnel of the Hart Group, a Bermuda-registered security consultancy run by former SAS and Scots Guards officer Richard Bethell, the son of Lord Westbury.

Gray Branfield, a South African, was killed during the battle after coalition forces from Ukraine failed to respond to repeated pleas for assistance from the small group of besieged guards.

Under an agreement with the Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) private security guards are only allowed to carry small personal protection weapons. But a source at Hart Group told the Guardian this week that discussions were under way with the authorities governing Iraq to allow bodyguards to increase their firepower.

<snip>

The incident which led to the demand for more firepower began at 6pm on April 6 in the house where the five Hart Group bodyguards were living in Kut. The men were attacked by a large group, believed to be followers of the Shia cleric Moqtada al-Sadr. Desperate calls were made to the local coalition forces. A Ukrainian unit finally answered and promised assistance. It never came. Coalition forces in Baghdad were also contacted and a rescue attempt was promised, but again it never came.

<snip>

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1193871,00.html
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
10. For more on South Africa's Apartheid regime
I recommend Desmond Tutu's "No Future Without Forgiveness" about his time on the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. The stories of torture and abuse there will curl your hair. And our tax dollars are hiring these people.

The folks in Iraq aren't dumb; they know their enemy and they know their reputations quite well. It's not an accident or a coincidence that someone like Branfield got greased. It's only in the U.S. that we don't know the character of these mercenaries, and that's because the current administration wants to obscure who it's hiring to do the dirty work in Iraq.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Dyn Corp has the contract to "train" Iraqi police and corrections
when they did this in Bosnia some of them hooked up with ethnic gangsters and ran dope, guns and children as sex slaves-Dyn Corp was pursued by Mary Robinson as UNHRC head, but Dyn Corp managed to get her removed from that position.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/GUA108A.html

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/ROB108A.html

These mercenaries are criminal scum, some of them are pathological racists and sadists.

US military is being abused to take reprisal for these POS operatives by George W. Bush aka The War President, who employs these merecenaries with our tax money.
:nuke:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
12. you reap what you sow....
no sympathy here...
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legin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
13. Working for a fucking british company naturally
<<snip>>

The Guardian has obtained details of a firefight in the town of Kut, 100 miles south-east of Baghdad, between Iraqi insurgents and five security personnel of the Hart Group, a Bermuda-registered security consultancy run by former SAS and Scots Guards officer Richard Bethell, the son of Lord Westbury.

Gray Branfield, a South African, was killed during the battle after coalition forces from Ukraine failed to respond to repeated pleas for assistance from the small group of besieged guards.

<<snip>>

It is estimated that Iraq has boosted the revenues of British military companies from £200m before the war to more than £1bn, making security Britain's most lucrative postwar export to the country.

<<snip>>

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1193871,00.html
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Vladimir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #13
23. Serves them fucking right n/t
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #13
31. Coaltion forces from the Ukraine (and a comment on corp Britishness & tax)
Edited on Wed Apr-28-04 05:46 PM by AP
Interesting, since the Ukraine, as part of the fomer USSR would have been a country which was anti-imperialist and very critical of the apartheid regime in SA.

It's pretty fucking ironic that at the end of this guy's life he needed the help of the Ukraine to stay alive after living a life that was at odds with the political beliefs of the Ukrainian government.

It would be very interesting if the Ukrainian forces knew who these people were and that influenced their decision not to risk their lives for them.

Incidentally, it's worth noting that if these "British" companies getting these contracts are all incorporated in Berumda as this one is, the British aren't seeing a dime of this money.

The UK, unlike most countries, doesn't tax its citizens on their world-wide income. It only taxes you on money that you bring back to the UK. Which is why these British citizens incorporate overseas, and in tax havens like Bermuda.
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DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
15. Justice
thy name is Iraq.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. MONEY THY NAME IS BLOOD
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Way to go Chimp
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
18. Too bad
maybe he knew our buddy, FBI person of interest in the anthrax murders, Stephen Hatfill who moved coincidentally in those same circles.
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. It's amazing how all these scumbags are connected in some way.
But people who suspect conspiracies in all of this are called crazy. No doubt Dick Cheney has a Rolodex filled with just these types.
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GregW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
21. Banfield the headless thompson gunner ...
"The deal was made in DC on a dark and stormy day
So he set out for Falluja to join the bloody fray"
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
22. I don't suppose there is any chance that the Axis of the willing
will run out of people who are willing to murder dark-skinned civilians any time soon . . .
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Here's an example of what mercenaries do for money and profit.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. And in our own country
Baldwin Felts Detective Agency

http://www.umwa.org/history/matewan.shtml

The Ludlow Massacre

http://members.tripod.com/~RedRobin2/index-29.html

Cabin Creek Mine War

Snip>

During the 1902 strike, Justus Collins hired Baldwin-Felts agents not only to maintain order, but also to serve as professional strike-breakers by protecting the non-union men hired to replace strikers. Thereafter, it became the custom for non-union operators to hire them to fight the union.


Operators also hired Baldwin-Felts men as under-cover agents to spy on labor "agitators" by infiltrating the local, district, and even national union organization to acquire privileged information so the companies could more effectively counter the union.


The 1912-13 strike on Paint-Cabin Creeks posed a serious challenge to the agency's ability to control the miners for the companies.

http://www.access.wvu.edu/class/WVHistory/html/UNIT11.htm

CLASS WARFARE FROM ABOVE, 1865-1920

http://www.newhistory.org/CH08.htm

(Private Armies and Rockefeller Type Republicans Killing For Cash, NOTHING New)


The Pullman Strike



When 300 Pinkerton Detectives came ashore at Andrew Carnegie's Homestead mill on July 6, 1892, they had no idea of the extreme violence with which locked-out steelworkers would greet them. A hail of stones, then bullets, ripped the air. Steelworker William Foy and the captain of the Pinkertons fell wounded.

On June 29, despite the union's willingness to negotiate, Frick closed the mill and locked out 3,800 men. Two days later, workers seized the mill and sealed off the town from strike-breakers. Frick summoned a private police force, the Pinkerton Detective Agency, to protect the non-union workers he planned to hire.

Virtually the entire town flooded to the mill to meet the Pinkertons, weapons in hand. "To be confronted with a gang of loafers and cut-throats from all over the country, coming there, as they thought, to take their jobs, why, they naturally wanted to go down and defend their homes and their property and their lives, with force, if necessary," recalled one worker.

For twelve hours, a fierce battle raged. Outgunned by the Pinkertons' Winchester rifles, Homestead's citizens scoured the town for weapons, pressing into service everything from ancient muzzle loaders to a 20-pound cannon. A local hardware merchant donated his entire stock of ammunition, which workers carried to the mill in wheelbarrows. As workers built barricades on shore, the Pinkertons cut rifle ports in the sides of their barges. Meanwhile, news of the battle had reached nearby Pittsburgh. By 6 am more than 5,000 curious spectators lined the riverbanks
http://www.horizonshelpr.org/socsci/labor1890/handouts/homestead.html


The strike ended with the intervention of the United States Army. The passenger trains also hauled mail cars, and although the workers promised to operate mail trains so long as Pullman cars were not attached, the railroads refused. Pullman and the carriers informed federal officials that violence was occurring and that the mail was not going through. Attorney General Richard Olney, who disliked unions, heard their claims of violence (but not the assurances of local authorities that there was no uncontrolled violence) and arranged to send federal troops to insure the delivery of the mail and to suppress the strike. The union leader, Debs, was jailed for not obeying an injunction that a judge had issued against the strikers."

http://www.horizonshelpr.org/socsci/labor1890/handouts/pullman.html














MERCENARIES FOR HIRE
All this firepower, trained on a public which places its trust in uniformed guards, raises a variety of concerns: The private security industry is largely unregulated; its employees are often poorly trained, underpaid, and inadequately screened; and they serve only those who hired them. While rent-a cops are legally limited to observing, reporting and attempting to deter crime a power which falls short of the authorized use of force or the right to make an arrest the distinction is apt to be lost on most citizens accosted by a uniformed private guard waving a gun and security badge.
The history of businesses hiring security firms and using them like a private army is long and rife with abuse. Pinkerton, the nation's oldest and second largest security company, earned its spurs in the late 19th century when its guards served as a private army for robber barons intent on wiping out unions. Pinkerton provided the firepower when Ford Frick issued the order to gun down striking workers at Andrew Carnegie's Homestead steel plant in 1892.

Private security companies today have kept that union-busting tradition alive and well. As corporations faced with labor disputes turn more and more to so-called permanent replacement workers, guard firms are utilized to crush militant opposition from unions. A rapidly expanding subset of the industry specializes in strikebreaking.

At the forefront is the Special Response Corporation (SRC), based in Towson, Maryland, SRC's ads feature a uniformed agent wielding a riot shield beneath a headline which proclaims: A Private Army When You Need It Most. SRC promises prospective employers that we can provide the security and control measures necessary for the continued operation of the business in the event of a strike. SRC vouches for the professionalism of its agents, stating that they all have prior military or law enforcement experience. In 1990, SRC helped precipitate a melee when its guards used martial arts sticks against striking newspaper workers in New York City.

http://mediafilter.org/caq/CAQ54p.police.html

Tales of the strike-busters
Unionized workers knock heads with controversial security firms that specialize in picket-line intimidation
BY BRUCE LIVESEY
For Edwin Godinez it was a case of déjà vu. Prior to emigrating from the Philippines six years ago he'd grown accustomed to seeing soldiers dressed in riot gear beating up protesters and strikers. But when Godinez and 450 fellow workers went on strike last October against their employer, Mississauga-based CFM Majestic Inc., it was as if he had never left home.

As soon as the strike began, the workers were confronted by burly security guards outside the factory where CFM Majestic manufactures fireplaces and stoves. The guards had shaved heads, were dressed from head to toe in black uniforms and wore black caps and military boots. As the workers tried to block buses filled with replacement workers -- or scabs, as they're traditionally known -- from crossing the picket lines, the guards shoved the picketers out of the way. Aiming video cameras, they also filmed the strikers. These guards worked for an outfit called London Protection International Inc. (LPI), a security company that specializes in "labour unrest management" situations.

If LPI's intention was to frighten the workers -- the majority of whom are from the Philippines -- it didn't work. "Most of the Filipino workers had been college students back home and were used to this sort of police presence," says Godinez, a 35-year-old father of a baby daughter. "We were not really intimidated."

Even before negotiations with the United Steelworkers of America union broke down last fall, the company hired both LPI and Bill McFadden Ltd., an outfit owned by a former U.S. Navy SEAL who leases trucks and buses for transporting scabs (later prompting workers to brandish signs reading "Dump the Seal"). On CFM Majestic's behalf, LPI recruited scabs, herding them onto buses at a Mississauga baseball field while their guards cleared a path through picketers into the company's plant. "The people were constantly pushing and shoving picketers," says Garnet Penny, a Steelworkers area coordinator. The union responded by launching an effective corporate campaign that, after four weeks, compelled CFM Majestic to grudgingly offer a better first contract.
http://www.eye.net/eye/issue/issue_04.13.00/news/busters.html






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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. Worth noting that many Pinkertons were immigrants and people down on their
luck for whom the only way to make a buck was to be a foot soldier for the fascists.

The capitalist system that was devaluing labor for the people whose heads they cracked, was the same crappy system that forced them to take awful jobs like being a Pinkerton.

Sound familiar?

Notwithstanding mercenaries like the fascists described in the original post, most of the people working in Iraq aren't so different from the old Pinkertons -- they're dairy farmers facing foreclosure and Subway managers who need money so badly they have few other opportunities to make money, and accept the risks.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. That excuse of being down on you luck
just never rang true for me.
*Nice to see you again AP
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. It wasn't an excuse. It was a fact. Many of the Pinkerton's cracking heads
were from some immigrant group other than the ones the cracked heads were from.

And the Pinkerton management carefully selected there employees to make sure they were from an immigrant group which was historically in opposition to the employees at whatever factory or mine they were working at.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 06:15 AM
Response to Reply #34
38. Did it happen? Yes - Fact
The excuse of taking money to kill people because a person is down on their luck and can't earn a living any other way is what I was referencing. Millions of human beings live out their desperate lives every day and don't decide to murder other humans and take blood money in order to survive.

I was trying to be nice AP, why do you always have to be so harsh, again it's nice to see you, is it impossible for you to acknowledge my good will.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. It was the juxtaposition of "excuse" and "rang true"
I think what you're saying is that you're making a value judgment about the "excuse."

It's not a question of being true or not, so I was responding to "rang true." "Rang true" makes it sound like you didn't believe it happened.

If you want to understand HOW capital was able to crack so many heads, it's important to understand this element of the Pinkertons. As I said, juxtaposing "excuse" with "rang true" made me feel like something important wasn't being grasped.

As for the 'nice to see you/why so harsh' -- I haven't gone anywhere. I presume this is a reference to some issue over which we disagreed and we just haven't been on the same threads. Care to refresh my memory?
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. Correct again AP
just that. Of course you've been here at DU, see you all the time, just didn't have an occasion to converse before this, trying to be friendly that's all. I see you are still misunderstanding me, didn't mean you went anywhere. It seems we are destine to exist on distant planes.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. I'm confused.
Edited on Thu Apr-29-04 09:04 AM by AP
I was conversing...about Pinkertons.

As for personalizing the discussion: honestly, I only responded to your post because I had something to say about the subject matter. "Nice to see you again." OK. Whatever. You seem to think there's something personal between us. I'm sorry if I don't remember.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. Why do you insist on being cheeky?
You could not and will not acknowlege my gesture of "burying the hatchet" and just say hey how's it going.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. Because I'm not aware of any hatchet to bury.
Why are my comments about Pinkertons (with which you apparently agree) turned into something personal?

Believe me, sometimes a discussion about Pinkertons is just a discussion about Pinkertons.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. I am extremely sorry now
that I made your post about Pinketons personal by saying it was nice to see you, (I tried to be congenial by stating the fact that I agreed with you ) since you misunderstood my intentions. I will refrain from ever being personal with you again, apparently like I said we are just on different planes.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. When you said nice to see you again...
Edited on Thu Apr-29-04 12:53 PM by AP
...I though you had me confused with someone else since I hadn't gone anywhere.

Rather than go off on tangents about personal relationships, I simply stuck to the subject matter.

I'm not even sure how this has gone this far since we both seem to agree about the central issue: Pinkertons bad.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. Again I just said it was nice to see you
not a deeply personal think to say and AP could you take an objective second glance at one of your posts. Do you really think I'd mistake you for anyone else?

Find a CITGO near you and buy your gas there because they are contributing their record profits to Social Programs

Find a Costco warehouse and shop there because they are TOO KIND TO WORKERS

I am truly sorry for any miscommunication.



SLAD
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Which post?
Edited on Thu Apr-29-04 02:19 PM by AP
Any one of them or one in particular?
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. You crack me up

The ones with this in them.

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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. It's all coming back now.
Edited on Thu Apr-29-04 02:53 PM by AP
But why so vague?

If you have something to say, just say it.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. I did
about as simple as I could. Just one more time, nice to see you again AP.

And I respect your causes and that is the reason I remember you.

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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
26. hm.. the most disgusting of people in the most disgusting of professions..
May Iraq bury them all..
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
29. Gray Branfield , the big neck football guy, and the bit part actor
Don't seem to be any match for some ragged peasants using Soviet cold war era equipment. This is classic.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
30. America and the coalition of the damned
Edited on Wed Apr-28-04 05:21 PM by seemslikeadream
Who are these soldiers of fortune that sign up to protect U. S. interests in Iraq?

An interesting answer to that question came from the Johannesburg Sunday Times of April 18. According to Julian Rademeyer, Gray Branfield, 55, a civilian contractor killed in Iraq a few weeks ago, admitted to being part of a South African death squad responsible for murdering ANC leaders. He also fought on the side of racists in Rhodesia and Zambia.

http://www.pulsetc.com/article.php?sid=1053

By Gavin du Venage in Cape Town

April 27, 2004

According to the United Nations, South Africa is a favoured recruiting ground, after the US and Britain, for the private security firms. At least 1500 of the estimated 10,000 private contractors operating in Iraq are South African.

"Most of these guys have spent 15 to 20 years fighting and know nothing else," Stiff says. "After apartheid ended, the former soldiers found themselves unemployed after their units were disbanded. Many became mercenaries.

"When the war in Iraq broke out, and private security companies began to seek recruits, they rushed to join what seemed to be a safe well-paid venture. Instead, they found civilians who shot back."

http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=814
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keithyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 03:09 AM
Response to Original message
35. This should be headlines all over the media in the US
but it won't be.
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 03:20 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. these must be the "foreign fighters" & "terrorists" they keep speaking of
a little backwards, I guess..
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 05:09 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. Mercenaries are terrorists for hire.
:grr:
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