Spain to Float Iraq Proposal to France, Germany

[Tinoire]

Spain to Float Iraq Proposal to France, Germany

1 hour, 19 minutes ago Add World - Reuters to My Yahoo!


By Estelle Shirbon

MADRID, Spain (Reuters) - Spain will ask anti-war allies Germany and France to join in a proposal calling for a U.S. exit from Iraq and a new international presence in the country, a Spanish government source said Tuesday.


"The idea is to see if Spain, France and Germany can help the United States find an exit from Iraq...and devise a formula for an international presence there that would not be perceived as an occupation by most of the population," the source said.


New Spanish Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, whose first decision on taking office was to withdraw troops sent to Iraq by his predecessor, said Tuesday the last of Spain's soldiers will have left Iraq by May 27.


Zapatero will make the proposal during talks with German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder in Berlin Wednesday and with French President Jacques Chirac in Paris Thursday. Germany has already expressed interest in it, the source said.

<snip>

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=586&e=1&u=/nm/20040427/wl_nm/iraq_spain_diplomacy_dc


DARE WE HOPE?!

[Iceburg]

1. Best news I've heard in over 1 year.

I will write our PM (Canada) and head of foreign affairs immediately.

[maddezmom]

2. wouldn't it be wonderful

but I dare say, bush* and cheney will never give control of Iraq to another country. :(

[NC_Nurse]

3. Great news!

if * and Cheney turn it down, they will look like even bigger A**holes!!!:toast: :bounce: :bounce:

[retread]

9. "..even bigger A**holes!!!" How is that possible?

*

[demdave]

4. I wouldn't hold my breath.

I am still waiting for the U.N. to take care of ANY of the problems in the African continent.

[AlCzervik]

5. I smell a brand new

axis of evil speech coming soon.

[daleo]

6. Bushco won't leave without the oil

Even then, they won't leave. The longer this goes on, the more I am becoming convinced that there are some truly awful religious fantasies being played, by all sorts of people.

[Tinoire]

7. I thought that from the start

but then again I've always been fascinated by God vs Satan, Good vs evil, & the occult.

Can I ask when and why you started being convinced?

[daleo]

8. It is hard to put a date on it, fairly recent though

For the longest time I thought oil was basically it, and I still think oil is of tremendous importance. But then there got to be all these extra things, that didn't make sense from the point of view of just taking oil. For example:

- the Fullujah assault is so out of proportion to the assumed provocation (four "contractors"), and I don't see how it helps the effort to secure the oil fields. Any rational person would say this could only hurt the oil stealing effort.

- the imposition of the very Israeli looking flag, just seems so egregiously provocative, that it seems to spring from some irrational source. Personally, I doubt many Israelis really are in favor of this either.

- at first I thought the looting of the museums was just because all efforts were being put into the oil ministry, but now I am not so sure. Again, it almost seems like an "in your face" thing, the sort of unnecessary cruelty that zealotry often inspires.

At this point, a rational imperialist power (like the British usually were) would be cutting some deals with local power brokers, making a few gestures of goodwill (phony as they might be) to the population, that sort of thing. They most certainly would not impose a new flag, laden with culturally inappropriate symbolism. I just get the feeling that things are being done to stoke the fires. This is worse than Viet Nam in that respect, which was ignorant and brutal, but didn't have this weird undercurrent to it. At least not as far as I remember, although I was young at the time.

[retread]

10. An ignorant thug can be counted on to act like an ignorant thug.

Add religious fanaticism(remember the crusade slip?), mix in the usual racism with an unhealthy portion of greed(oil) and that's pretty much what these brutish thugs call foreign policy!

[vincenzo]

17. Our military leaders are even worse than in the Vietnam era

The officer corp seems to have been taken over by delusional, vicious psychotic 2-dimensional munchkins who understand only force, and not even the true capabilities of that. God forgive us.

[loudsue]

11. The answer: Bechtel....

See post # 23 on this thread. It is AWESOME!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x513062#514053

It answers a whole lotta questions!

:kick:

[TeeYiYi]

12. Excellent analysis of the elephant in the LR! - KICK. ...n/t

TYY :kick:

[peacetalksforall]

13. I keep thinking that it is a corporate thing that uses the military.

intelligence, media units, but is in parntership with the executive, judicial, and legislative branches. Everything about our country is being given to corporations.

But, I can't explain the Christian-Judea partnership that overlays the above- PLUS PLUS PLUS, even bigger... the Christian-Judea-Moslem partnership that overlays the Christian-Judea corporate one.

[Tinoire]

14. Thanks so much for that answer!

I am bookmarking this thread. If I run across any more articles referencing certain points, I'll PM you.

About the museums... think of all the occult artifacts that were housed there... Very ancient artifacts; the occult seals and charms of Nineveh were some of the first stolen as well as writings from the Royal Libraries of Nineveh.


Peace

[Dirk39]

15. Hello daleo, I fear...

"At this point, a rational imperialist power (like the British usually were) would be cutting some deals with local power brokers, making a few gestures of goodwill (phony as they might be) to the population, that sort of thing."

I fear this time, Europe tries to do exactly, what you have described. At least Chiraq and Schröder. You Americans shouldn't forget that Europe might have other than charity-reasons, when it comes to Iraq.
Some leftists here in Germany are convinced that Schröder and Chiraq somehow expected and hoped that Bush would fail in Iraq and they could jump in as the "rescuer". At least what german corporations did in Iraq even during the embargo pretty much seems to support this suspicion....

If only there would be a chance to give Iraq back to the Iraqis, letting Bush and Co. bleed out in paying reparations without just leaving the country to the next "rational" imperialists. You've described "rational imperialism" very well :-)

The lack of this kind of "rational imperialism" might even be the reason that so many corporatists in the USA want to get rid of Bush and his comrades. A Soros kind of "velvet revolution" does a better job than an occupation, and you end up with a colony, where even the members of the parliament are payed by american billionaires, as it happened in Georgia. (http://globalresearch.ca/articles/FOE404A.html)


I'm still surprised about Zapatero, but spanish people tell me the last socialist government started the same way and then changed to a brutal neoliberal strategy...

At this moment I just hope, the USA will leave Iraq and the killing will stop. Without much hope for what is happening then.

Hello from Germany,
Dirk

[greatauntoftriplets]

18. or the real estate ...

...for the 14 permanent military bases.

[2Design]

20. He won't leave because they want a base there more than anything

for world domination and to spy and bomb other countries in the area, they want a base in that country and are in the process of building it there.

[vincenzo]

16. Wow, we already have so much to thank Spain, this is great

Spain has already done much more than they know.

1st, they probably saved thousands of lies by not allowing their "Reichstag fire" to have its designed effect. It was tne first recent one not to work.

2nd, this.

Can we ask for a 3rd? Could they find the intel/military perpetrators of the railway bombing?

If things get much worse, such as an invasion of Iran or Syria, I hope the world community starts pulling their embassies out of Washington or moves the UN out of the US. Most Americans are utterly deaf and blind to the world's true opinion of us.

"Blessed by God and goodness, turn the channel to American Idol."

[mmonk]

19. calling bush's bluff

since we really aren't there to democratize anything (permanent bases).

[BattyDem]

21. This would be great!

However ... does anyone honestly believe Bushco would swallow their pride and not only admit they failed in Iraq, but admit that they need France to bail them out? I think Bushco and the GOP "freedom fries" crowd would rather die a slow death than accept any help from the "cheese-eating surrender monkeys". After all, how would they explain it to the Freepers? :eyes: