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kskiska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 08:44 AM
Original message
Spitz Raises Spectre of US Missing Olympics
United States Olympic hero Mark Spitz has raised the spectre of an American withdrawal from this summer’s Athens Games due to security concerns.

Spitz, who won seven swimming golds at the 1972 Olympics in Munich when 11 Israeli athletes were murdered by terrorists, believes the US team is at this stage not certain to show up in Greece.

With ongoing conflicts involving the US in Afghanistan and Iraq, as well as heightened terrorist fears since the events of September 11 2001, Spitz claims American politicians will still be keeping an open mind on whether to send a team to Athens.

He told BBC Radio 5 Live: “We are looking under the microscope at all the different terrorist acts and we know there is a high degree of probability that something could happen in Athens.

more…
http://sport.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2847823
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buddy22600 Donating Member (426 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
1. If we went, we would be boo'ed out of there anyway
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kskiska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
2. Last time we pulled out
Carter took a lot of heat. The athletes certainly wouldn't be happy.
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sybylla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #2
29. Carter took heat because it was perceived as a political decision
not so much a safety issue.
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
3. Athens
Is not known for its security. Athens airport used to be the favorite stomping grounds of terrorists.
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oneighty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Athens is truly a great city
Only place ever that I was robbed!

Sigh.

180
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #3
48. That used to be true
I've been to Athens for 8 of the last 10 years and I've got to say the security there now beats Kennedy airport in NY. It's also been very modernized and rivals all other European airports. When I first started going to Greece, I think I could have walked off the plane with a howitzer and nobody would have noticed.
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Zech Marquis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
4. a damn shame
all those atheletes wo have trained for years to make it to the Olympics, and now with all this shit going on, they will at the very least get booed from the moment they step foot in Athens. And they'll be under enough stress just trying to compete...

Sadly, it might be a good idea to keep them home--you can bet somebody's itching to take some shots aat them :(
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
5. Maybe Bush will name Kimmit the head of the US Olympic delegation.
Then he can pacify Athens, too.
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rooboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
6. There's nowhere for them to sleep anyway...
the IOC has taken out insurance against the games being cancelled for the first time in its history. The thing's a shambles and there is a very real chance it won't go ahead at all.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #6
19. The Olympics has been a shambles for decades...
Edited on Wed Apr-28-04 09:47 AM by KansDem
Let me go out on a limb here and say "it's about time we put an end to the Olympics."

Sure, it was a good idea back in 1896 when it was believed that the world's nations could come together in friendly competition to bolster good will and the human spirit, but the comtemporary Olympics is nothing more than a propaganda tool for governments and a commercial venture for the athletes and corporatioins that "sponser" them.

Consider:
1972--Munich and the murder of the Israeli athletes, the ban put on (pole vault favorite) Bob Seagran's pole after he arrived so he had to borrow another and came in 2nd place; the US-USSR basketball fiasco...
1976--Montreal and the controversy surrounding high jumper Dwight Stones (warranted or not)...
1980--Moscow and the American boycott
1984--Los Angeles and the USSR boycott
(these are the few that come to mind)

In addition, it seems that (in the media's eyes) if an athlete isn't given a multimillion dollar endorsement contract following an successful performance, then he/she was somehow "cheated."

And I for one CAN'T STAND the "up close and personal" features on many of the athletes (or I should say the "popular" ones; or at least the ones participating in the popular events. When was the last time you saw a feature on the USA entrant in the hammer throw?)

Also, the TV coverage SUCKS (and I don't use that word often). Some events are given wide coverage (see previous paragraph) while others are treated as footnotes.

In the mid-1980s I heard an interview with Bob Richards, Olympic gold medalist in the pole vault in 1952 and 1956. He said it was an honor to have be a part of the Olympic team, and you were considered lucky if you "broke even" when you returned home from the games (I don't recall if he said specifically or not but I seem to recall that the athlete at the time paid more of his/her own expenses).


Throw in the drug controversies and the overall corporate takeover which turns the Olympics into one huge commercial and you have the reasons to put an end to it.

As far as I'm concerned, I couldn't care less if the Olympics never took place again!

(edited for clarity)
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fudge stripe cookays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #19
35. Don't forget Mexico City 68.
Two of the African Americans gave a black power salute and got tossed out.

What complete crap. So much happened in 68-- MLK was assassinated...I would have had tears in my eyes watching it. Instead they were alienated and made an example of for making a "political" statement.
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ze_dscherman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #35
71. And don't forget the Tlatelolco Massacre
Where hundreds of protesting students were killed.
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makhno Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #19
46. Great logic
Hey, coverage of the Olympics in my country sucks and the Cold War turned some events into ideological battles, so let's get rid of the institution altogether.

He said it was an honor to have be a part of the Olympic team, and you were considered lucky if you "broke even" when you returned home from the games

That part hasn't changed. It's still a damn important even in athletes' lives. Remember, overpaid American athletes are not the only ones participating.
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amazona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #19
55. it can mean a lot to some countries
The marathon runners of Kenya have been able to get endorsements and lift up whole villages that would otherwise be left in unbelievable poverty. I'm not too knowledgeable of sports but when I was visiting there in one area of the mountains we could see people running and training, and that's when I learned the story. The endorsements may seem hypocritical and against the amateur spirit of the games for us but they can be a lifeline for others. So I no longer know what to think about it or who to root for.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
7. Spitz is hypersensitive to the issue.
As the article says, Mark Spitz was there in Munich when the Israeli athletes were attacked. Mark Spitz is also Jewish, so I'm certain he felt the tragedy far more than most there.
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. "Hypersensitive?"
Palestinian terrorists did something even Hitler didn't do and deliberately targeted Olympic athletes for murder and butchery. And because Spitz was there and is Jewish he's "hypersensitive?"

I watched the Palestinian bastards on TV, does that make ME hypersensitive to their monstrous acts?
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. I think Mouse is referring
to the fact that the whole thing is more personal to him. Those doing the investigating are probably "sensitive" to terrorist concerns, Spitz may actually have some degree of PTSD remaining from the Munich attacks.

I'm just saying that I didn't read anything perjorative into the characterization of "hypersensitive". After I was assaulted in the "security" of my own home, I was hypervigilant and hypersensitive, also. And Time doesn't heal all wounds if they are not addressed.
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Sensitive is empathic, hypersensitive implies something is wrong
I dare say anyone at Munich or who watched it on TV is sensitive to the issue and doesn't want to give the Palestinian terror network another chance to kill more Israeli athletes for instance.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. So I suppose that makes me pro-Israeli-athlete slaughter?
Just like most things you post on here, muddle, you're trying to start a flame war here without even thinking through what you're starting the flame war about.
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Haven't flamed a soul
But the term hypersensitive is what it is, an over-the-top comment about one of the greatest athletes in U.S. history.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #17
25. Only thing over-the-top on this thread is muddled ranting
Edited on Wed Apr-28-04 09:50 AM by mouse7
Mark Spitz has stated he was deeply affected by the terrorist attacks. It's reasonable for a person who was as personally involved in that tragedy as Mark Spitz was to conclude he cannot be an impartial judge of anti-terrorism and security issues. Mark Spitz makes a great advocate for protection of athletes, but he does not make a good arbitrator of what security techniques are sufficient and insufficient.
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. People learn through experience
Our best people have the most experience. Cops learn by walking the beat for 20 years. They learn how to spot a crook and not get killed apprehending one.

Soldiers and firefighters learn the same ways.

So you want to take someone who is not only accomplished, but experienced and get rid of them?

Basically, you want someone to be a yes man for Athens it seems.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Yes, I'm a Greek Spy. You've unmasked me.
Edited on Wed Apr-28-04 10:06 AM by mouse7
I've been haunting this board for years just so I could be ready in case someone would post anything anti-Greek on this message board. Finally, a Greek issue comes forward after all these years. I was ready pounce upon you all and force the Greek worldview down your throats...

... and I would have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for YOU MEDDLING KIDS!!!!

(on edit) By the way, what part of Mark Spitz careers in swimming or real estate makes Spitz so "experienced" that he's qualified to comment on anti-terrorism policy?
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. Whatever
Mark Spitz's years of experience on the international scene -- dealing with security from an athlete's perspective -- give him room to comment as an athlete on those security measures.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. Experience doing what?
Edited on Wed Apr-28-04 10:31 AM by mouse7
Swimming and selling real-estate. Spitz has NO experience in security and anti-terrorism policy.

What part of NO EXPERIENCE in the fields of security and anti-terrorism don't you understand? Spitz has experience walking through metal detectors. That's it.
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. Spitz has been involved in the Olympics for 30 years
He can readily compare the security measures used that involve the athletes over that 30-year times span -- probably something few of the security experts can even do.

Further, he lived through all of this. He has seen it up close. So, against the benchmark of what he has seen and experience, if the Athens security measures aren't as good, even an amateur can tell.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #37
43. Urban public school students have more security experience than Spitz
Edited on Wed Apr-28-04 10:48 AM by mouse7
They've been walking through metal detectors at school their whole lives. Spitz' only security experience is the same as urban public school students. Should we let the kids at George Washington High School tell us what we should do about terrorism?

Spitz has lots of experience in Olympic SWIMMING. Competing in swim meets has nothing to freakin' do with accessing risks of international terrorism incidents, other than the fact he occasionally has to walk through a metal detector.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #28
52. LMAO
funniest post in weeks! :thumbsup:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #17
69. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #15
23. In Brazil we call this...
"Looking for horns on the heads of horses."
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. What is the translation of that?
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #26
31. "The guy who designed the Wingdings font is a TERRA-IST!!!" (nt)
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. More muddled rants
Do they allow cops to work the cases of crimes against their family members? NO. Why? Because they are too emotionally involved in the situation.

Mark Spitz is absolutely justified in feeling outrage toward the 1972 Olympic terrorists. Being justified in outrage doesn't not mean he's justified in making policy statements for the US regarding terrorism policy. He's too emotionally involved in that tragedy to make clear minded decisions about it.
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. And what do you base your "psychiatric" analysis on?
He is not a cop. They were not his family members. They were not even his friends.

Would you disqualify anyone at Munich? Anyone who saw it? Anyone who read about it? Or just anyone who is Jewish?
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Being a Jewish athlete in the Olympic Athlete's village
The attacks happened right around the corner from where the US athletes were staying.
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. So you would disqualify only Jewish athletes from Munich?
Sounds a tad discriminatory, don't you think?
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Yes, I would disqualify those who might have been targets.
There has been evidence that suggested the terrorists considered adding Spitz to the target list after his success at those games.
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. So again
That's everybody from Munich -- every athlete, every staffer, etc. Those bastards were terrorists. They kill. They instill terror. They aren't picky.

Then there's every Jewish athlete -- ever. Because they are always targets.

Then there's anyone who is married to someone Jewish?

How about those who have Jewish friends?

And, given the world situation, any American athlete since they are all possible targets? Oops, this is ABOUT American athletes...

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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #24
30. Everyone in Munich was NOT jewish and winner of 7 golds
Spitz and Spitz alone was considered for adding to the target list BECAUSE of his success at those games.
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. Everyone in Munich was a potential target
Everyone who is Jewish remains a potential target.

This year, every AMERICAN athlete is a potential target.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #33
39. No. Everyone in Munich was not a potential target
No, not every Jew is targeted. No, not every American is targeted.

You really need to take a break from Tom Ridge's color-coded propaganda. It's getting to you.
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. You need to better recall Munich
Palestinian terrorists burst in and butchered the Israeli athletes. Terrorists are notoriously sloppy about who they kill. It only worked out that they limited their killing to athletes and police. But when psychopathic murdering bastards like those are unleashed from their cages, they are a threat to anyone and everyone nearby.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #41
44. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #41
49. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #41
58. I'll happily rephrase that...
"Palestinian terrorists burst in and butchered the Israeli athletes. Terrorists are notoriously sloppy about who they kill. It only worked out that they limited their killing to athletes and police. But when psychopathic murdering bastards like those are unleashed from their cages, they are a threat to anyone and everyone nearby."

Muddle, your above assertions are decidedly unpleasantly aromatic in nature.

The Palestinians got EXACTLY who they came looking for in Munich. They were holding the Israeli athletes hostage to force the release of 200 Palestinian prisoners held in Israeli prisons.

Because you seem a bit "confused" on on the whole Munich thing:

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Terrorism/munich.html
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #58
73. Plans and results are often different
Just because their psychotic plan of murder succeeded doesn't do a thing to change that. A group of insane, deadly fanatics broke into the Olympic facility. Yes, they targeted the Israeli athletes, but clearly anyone who had gotten in their way would have also been killed -- since that is what happened to a policeman.

Thankfully, even though some of those bastards got away with their plan, Israel tracked a bunch of them down later.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #73
77. The terrorists were quite sane and methodical
The terrorist had a detailed plan and acted on it. What your opinion of the goals of the terrorists is meaningless. The goals of the terrorists were well planned and well executed. Nothing the terrorists did remotely qualifies for the legal definition of insanity.
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #77
80. Methodical perhaps, sane not a chance
Everything they did was insane. They butchered innocent athletes.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #80
82. So terrorists aren't responsible for their actions?
According to you, nobody can be found guilty of murder, because murderers are all insane. So terrorists are just sick people who need a little therapy?

That's certainly a new spin on terrorism. I've never seen anyone claim people that kill other people are never responsible for their actions.

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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #41
78. I do recall Munich. You do not.
Edited on Wed Apr-28-04 06:21 PM by mouse7
You need to do some research on what happened in Munich. We remember. You clearly don't.

The Munich terrorists knew exactly which apartments in the Olymipic village to attack, and attacked them. It was a very precise attack.
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #78
81. I recall Munich quite well
You assume too much about their terrorist swine. Just because the plan worked does not mean that they wouldn't have killed others. They did. They killed a policeman. Had anyone else gotten in their way, they would have killed them as well.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #81
83. Difference between "psychotic rampage" and killing those in the way
Killing those in the way of executing a plan aren't on a psychotic rampage. They are methodically executing their plan.

Their plan was to hold Israeli athletes hostage and terrorize the people of the world to get the world to be afraid of not giving in to their wishes of the PLO. They did that.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #81
84. Black September...
The group that carried out the attack was called Black September, a PLO-related guerrilla group that used violence to pursue their goals and were, unfortunatetly, pretty good at what they did. They went after very specific targets on "missions" that were carefully planned and executed. Portraying them as "psychopathic murdering bastards" or "insane, deadly fanatics" who would have gone on a further killing spree if given the opportunity is too easy and wildly inaccurate. And as for your assertation that "had anyone else gotten in their way, they would have killed them as well", that is wrong. They had plenty of opportunity to kill a slew of people other than the Israeli hostages during the situation -- they ran into more than six athletes on their way to the Israelis' quarters. There were dozens of police officers at the airport they could have been killed but only one was during the chaos at the airport. Looking at their history, Black September doesn't appear to be "sloppy about who they kill" at all.

What Black September did was terrible enough without your "sexing up" of the details.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/september/6/newsid_2500000/2500769.stm

A policeman also died in the shooting at the Furstenfeldbruck military airbase, along with four of the guerrillas from the Palestinian group Black September.


http://www.cnsnews.com/InDepth/archive/199905/IND19990505c.html

Yasser Arafat's PLO was directly responsible for the assault on Israel's athletes at the 1972 Munich Olympics, one of the men who oversaw the attack has confirmed 27 years later. Abu Daoud, currently a member of the Palestine National Council, made the admission in his French-language autobiography, "Palestine: From Jerusalem to Munich," which was launched in Paris on Monday. Daoud, whose real name is Mohammed Daoud Machmoud Auda, was a leader of Black September, a terrorist group which the PLO claimed it had no links with, but which experts have long said was a deniable, covert PLO unit. In his book, he says the gunmen had not intended to kill the 11 Israelis who died after being taken hostage at the Olympic Village.

snip...

Dan Eisenberg, an Israeli writer who has published books on Israeli counter-terrorism, said Wednesday it came as "no surprise whatsoever" that Munich was a PLO operation, and that Arafat was behind it. He said Daoud's attempt to blame the German police was misguided. While the police could be accused of failing to provide adequate protection at the Games, and of bungling the rescue attempt at the airport, they were not responsible for what happened. "The police can't be blamed for the deaths. What really killed the Israelis was the terrorists. The blame can't be shifted from the terrorists, or from Arafat." Daoud, now 62, is a PNC member and lawyer in the Palestinian Authority-ruled town of Ram'Allah. He writes that he regrets that the PLO used violence – because the result had been a public outcry, rather than the sympathy for the Palestinian cause he had hoped for. Daoud was expected to attend the book launch Monday, but French authorities barred him from entering at Orly airport in Paris. The last time he visited France, in 1977, he was arrested and expelled to Algeria.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September

Black September
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Black September was a Palestinian organization, founded in 1970. It had links to various groups within the PLO, most notably Fatah and the PFLP. Sources claim that the organization was controlled by Yasser Arafat, the leader of PLO, but this has never been proven.

The name "Black September" comes from the fighting between Palestinians and Jordanian officials in September 1970. This month was called "The Black September" because the Arabs fought against themselves instead of the Israelis. (See History of Jordan). The first action of the group was to assassinate the Jordanian Prime Minister, Wasfi Tel, on November 28, 1971. Wasfi Tel was instrumental in expelling the Palestinan fighters from Jordan in 1970-71.

Its most well-known act was the "Munich massacre", the kidnapping and killing of Israeli athletes during the 1972 Summer Olympics in Munich.

Other actions attributed to Black September include:

December 1971: attempted assassination of Jordan's Ambassador to London, Zeid Al Rifai

February 1972: sabotage of a West German electrical installation and a Dutch gas plant

May 1972: hijacking of a Belgian Sabena airplane flying from Vienna to Tel Aviv

March 1 1973: attack on the Saudi Embassy in Khartoum, killing the American chargé d'affaires J. Curtis Moore, the American ambassador, Cleo Noel, and the Belgian chargé d'affaires, Guy Eid

After the March 1973 attack, the organization was disbanded, apparently under pressure from the PLO, which saw that the terrorist acts only damaged the Palestinan cause.

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fudge stripe cookays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #21
36. Yep, I'm reading a book about it right now.
He left the Olympics with a coterie of bodyguards.
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GemMom Donating Member (281 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #16
61. And Spitz......
... was evacuated almost immediately - by then he was a lot more "high profile" having won the seven golds.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=1426761&type=story
Jewish Athletes Play on Blind Faith
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #11
68. By that logic....the 9/11 widows should keep quiet (nt)
:eyes:
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #68
72. Big difference. 9/11 widows are asking questions.
Edited on Wed Apr-28-04 03:15 PM by mouse7
The 9/11 widows are demanding their right to ask questions. The 9/11 widows have made no conclusions.

Spitz is not asking IF the Olympics will be safe for athletes. He's pronouncing it won't be and claiming a need for cancellation of the games. Note the quote...

Spitz said, "WE are looking under the microscope at all the different terrorist acts and WE KNOW there is a high degree of probability that something could happen in Athens."

Mark Spitz doesn't KNOW shit about terrorism risk accessment. Mark Spitz knows swimming and real estate. Mark Spitz needs to shut up about subjects he is completely unqualified to make statements about.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #72
76. Regardless of what Spitz Knows or Doesn't Know About Security
He is right to question the ability of the hosts - regardless of where the games are held - to successfully keep out those who'd harm the athletes.

For US interests, the games stopped being about the beauty of extraordinary athletics and became nothing more than an excersize in commercially-driven jingoism + reality TV ages ago, around the time the boys in Lake Placid were taking their own gold. Today, the games, or the coverage of them that we see, are nothing more than a series of Kodak moments.

Our athletes' personal lives and years of training will be whored out for Sony, Budweiser, Prudential Securities and others to sell their product.

Until someone with direct knowledge of security wants to step up as an advocate for the safety of the golden geese, and not the egg gatherers, Spitz will just have to do.









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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #76
79. Spitz didn't question. Spitz made risk assessment pronouncements
You need to re-read the quotes, Crisco. Spitz never anywhere in the article "questions" whether security is adequate. Spitz STATES it isn't and declares terrorist attacks in Athens a basically a given.

Spitz has NO TRAINING WHATSOEVER to make such terrorism risk assessments.
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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
59. yeah, Hitler only gassed and murdered 6 million non-Olympic Jews
So those Palestinians are FAR worse.

(Murder is murder and those terrorists from '72 are rightfully condemned, but just because Hitler did no such parallel at the '36 Berlin games... oh never mind, I'd be better off not fighting your sheer hatred of Palestinians and other displays of anti-Arab racism)
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
14. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
skooooo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
18. Mark Spitz is ALL WET!


BWAHAHAHAAHHAHAHHAHHAHA
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makhno Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #18
47. No kidding
Israeli athletes returned strong in 1976 and kicked ass. What the hell kind of defeatist nonsense is that?
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Iceburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
22. Not to worry--Athletes will be drafted into W's next war before Olypmics
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demdave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
38. WOW, Mark Spitz has spoken...case closed.
I will have to take down my Farrah Faucet poster and put my Mark Spitz poster back up. He looks sooo good in those Speedos. :silly:
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
40. Athens has no chance of being ready
Has anyone seen the recent updates? The stadium is not close to ready, the Olympic village is not ready. I'm not sure they've even started the swimming venues yet.

This is going to be a monumental disaster of a Games.
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
42. Problem solved--they've purchased an
Edited on Wed Apr-28-04 10:45 AM by rocknation
insurance policy against acts of terrorism. If anyone gets killed or anything gets bombed, at least they'll break even, so cheer up.

:eyes:
rocknation
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
45. Gosh I hope they don't pull out
The Olympics is how we battle with out killing each other .

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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #45
50. Yes, Indeed Proud Patriot
Sports are a modern day substitute for warfare... and much safer. Think about the recent criket match between India and Pakistan. Peace broke out over that game.

Same with the Olympics. We'd better not pull out. This year's athletes deserve to go... they are aware of the risks.

I just hope Athens will be ready on time. It's not looking good at the moment, 1 Bil over budget with several projects behind schedule.

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silverpatronus Donating Member (520 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
51. the olympics should be discontinued...
...unless they make incredible strides to get back to the original spirit of the games. correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't the olympics about amateur athletes getting together in the spirit of friendly international competition? now it's all money and politics and steroids and the stinkin dream team and how many medals you can rack up. not to mention nbc's godawful 'human interest' stories that hold no interest for most humans. and let's not even get started on the absolutely poor coverage of the games. firstly, if an american is not in an event, that event doesn't get covered on american television (which is the only coverage i get). secondly, if it's an event deemed 'boring' it gets partial coverage or a full blackout.

spirit of 1896...WHO'S WITH ME!
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. Naw, I wish they do away with the pretense
of "amateurs" doing the games. Even amateurs aren't amateurs anymore. I don't care if professionals go and get endorsements afterwards.

Even the original Olympians were not amateurs, they were soldiers in the off season with nothing better to do.
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. I miss the Soviet Bloc at Olympic time
I don't really care if an American beats someone from Belarus in the Hammer Throw. But I liked beating the Commies back in the day.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #54
70. That reminds me off a Simpsons flashback episode....
It's 1984 and Krusty has a new promotion where you get a free burger if the US wins a gold medal in the event on the card. His lawyer assures him that all the events selected are ones which "communists never lose". After he finds out about the boycott, his lawyer tells him "You personally stand to lose $43 million".
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
56. I hope the Olymics go away
hate the enforced patriotism of the US coverage as well as the general semminess of the whole thing. And the IOC pretending to be the UN. What a bunch of self-important jerks.
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Sabriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #56
60. I hope they DON'T go away
I'd like the rest of the U.S. to realize what we already know, that much of the world is against us and what we've done to the world in the last 3 years. And if it takes constant boos, whistles, and nasty signs at the Olympics, so be it. Maybe some people will wake up and smell the bacon when it's obvious even people who "look like us" are against us.
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Anon Donating Member (38 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
57. He's not the only one
Britain is one of seven nations, including Spain, Israel, the United States, Germany, France and Australia, forming a first-ever Olympics security advisory group.
http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:NJfmWCw-6p0J:www.reuters.com/locales/newsArticle.jsp%3Ftype%3DsportsNews%26locale%3Den_US%26storyID%3D4852001+Security+concerns+about+the+Olympic+Games&hl=en

The security budget for the Athens Olympics has climbed to $1.2 billion, nearly four times what was spent protecting the Sydney Games four years ago.

"With security, we are not cutting any corners. Whatever is possible to do is being done," Palli-Petralia, deputy culture minister coordinating Athens' preparations, told The Associated Press on Wednesday.

Plans to safeguard the Aug. 13-29 games are the most expensive and extensive in Olympic history. The previous estimate was more than $800 million.

Olympic security concerns heightened following the March 11 terrorist bombings of four commuter trains in Madrid, Spain, that killed 191 people and wounded more than 1,800.

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/sports/8540165.htm
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info being Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
62. Didn't the Germans miss an Olympics in the '30's.
Makes sense that the US would miss one now.
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GemMom Donating Member (281 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. No. The 1936 Olympics were held in Munich.......
...... which was used by Hitler as a propaganda event. Does the name Jesse Owens ring a bell?

The 1940 and 1944 Olympics were cancelled due to World War II, and my father-in-law, a top-level gymnast, was affected.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. 1936 Olympics were in Berlin
Not Munich... Berlin in '36.
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GemMom Donating Member (281 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #64
74. Yes, you're correct.
I was in error re: the 36 Olympics being held in Munich. They were held in Berlin.

http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/online/olympics/
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mot78 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
65. Are you fucking serious?
We hosted the winter games in Salt Lake despite terror. Why should we withdrawal from Athens?
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
66. After the Spitz counter-terrorism lecture, Eli Manning will teach us..
Edited on Wed Apr-28-04 02:46 PM by mouse7
How to Win Friends and Influence People.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
67. I wonder hos Joe SixPack will react when American athletes are booed
They'll switch back over to NASCAR and put their fingers in their ears.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
75. I like it when athletes from small, non-"powerhouse" countries win medals,
but I HATE NBC's coverage, which typically consists of equal amounts of commercials (the same ones over and over--remember "Bobby Hamilton" from Nagano?), fawning soft-focus bios of the U.S. athletes, some cutesie travel features about the city where the events are taking place, and oh, yeah, a few minutes of event coverage, but only if a U.S. athlete won a medal.

ABC did much better, but they haven't had a chance literally since 1984.
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