Second German State Approves Hijab Ban (Islam Online)

[gottaB]

HANOVER, April 28 (IslamOnline.net & News Agencies) - Lower Saxony is to ban Muslim public school teachers from wearing hijab after regional deputies voted in favor of a new law to that effect on Wednesday, April28 .

The state parliament, dominated by a coalition of the conservative Christian Democratic Union and the liberal Free Democrats, pushed through the vote with support from the Social Democrat opposition, Agence France-Presse (AFP) reported.

State culture minister Annette Schavan argued after the vote that hijab is "open to interpretation" including a possible espousal of the "Islamist political views" and that is way it had no place in the classroom.

Islam deems hijab a religious obligation which has nothing to do with portraying any political affiliation.

Lower Saxony Approves Ban on Hijab....

[dedhed]

1. I'm all for the seperation of church and state...

... but this French (and now German) thing with the headgear has crossed into the realm of ridiculous!

x(

[gottaB]

2. same here

I wonder how many people have had a school teacher or professor who wore hijab? It shouldn't be such a big deal.

I agree with the Greens on this issue. It's just punishing teachers who are already in the profession.

[BonjourUSA]

3. irreducible variance ?

The French word "laïc" doesn't find a translation in English. The closer English word is "secular" but it only means "separation of church and state" while "laïc" includes social principles and behaviors too. But I understand very well that you can't agree with us about this concept which is one of the French bases for freedom and the social peace.

[gottaB]

4. Bonjour, thanks for the vocabulary and discussion

Using "laïc" as a search term, I ungoogled one essay which sums up the problem of veiling for French secularism:

Yet, this juxtaposition (between modernism and religiosity) is clearly operative in the case of veiled students in France, who are automatically perceived as a "source of backwardness" and as a symbol of French secularism's failure to achieve assimilation, rather than as evidence of its success. But, here too, the value judgment is misplaced. Many veiled women represent the positive face of Muslims in France, in that for most of them the veil was a conscious, voluntary choice rather than an obligation under law or blind conformity to fashion, as is frequently the case in most Islamic societies. Moreover, not only are they acting in accordance to sincere religious conviction, many of these are keener to be responsible citizens, more eager to be involved in the development of their society, than many other Arabs and Muslims who, in spite of their "Frenchified" appearances, are unwilling to face the challenges of education or competition, who slide into lives of excess and delinquency, and who then blame their misfortunes on racism and discrimination.

All the more is the pity that the French media has declared war on veiled schoolgirls rather than on the true failures in the immigrant communities in the country. It is especially regretful that, in linking the veil to Muslim extremism and terrorism and in holding these girls accountable for such aberrations in Islamic societies as the Taliban and Bin Laden's Al-Qa'eda, the French media is contributing to instilling a climate of fear in a normally open French society.

The vehemence of this attack is all the more surprising as schoolgirls who have chosen to wear the veil number no more than 1,200. One would think that their continued presence in French public schools would be considered evidence of the strength and vitality of French secularism. This system is far more secure than some French politicians claim and still capable of delivering its humanitarian message to the world and becoming Europe's answer to the American model. All that is needed is a little more flexibility in defining the concept of secularism so as to ensure that religious freedoms are accorded as much respect as the laws, principles and values of democracy and civic society.

Secularism gets the shakes

The thing that strikes me is that the xenophobia which Elchoubaki takes notice of does not manifest itself accidentally. Surely assimilationist policies have an imperialist dimension which colors such expressions of ethnic strife, if it doesn't provide a kind of structural genesis for them.

[BonjourUSA]

6. The law concerns all the religious symbols in the PUBLIC schools,

not only the veil.

1200 schoolgirls have chosen to wear the veil and about ten wanted to keep it at school.

The real issue isn't religious but sociological. If the French Muslims don't practice religion (between 7 and 8%) very much more than the other French people (4% for the entire French population), the French girls of Arab origine more and more wear a veil for having peace with their brothers or the boys in the suburbs of French cities which call them whores or anything else so insulting if they are wearing clothes like their schoolmates. I have to remind the French girls of Arab origine massively supported this law because they are the third or fourth generation to be born in France. For them, the veil is a regression and a women alienation symbol before to be a religious one. The French Muslim clerics wasn't totally against the law, some of them still ask for the wearing a little bandana... Without very much conviction.

For the Jews, they demonstrated in the streets of the French cities for supporting the law. The rabbis ask for a strict observance of it at school.

[rman]

5. i don't think this ban will contribute to social peace,

rather it is likely to do the opposite.

[Muddleoftheroad]

7. Wow

the more Germany changes, the more it looks like the old place. You must conform. You must observe the national religion. You must obey.

[Vladimir]

8. I wonder if they will

have the consistency to ban crosses and skullcaps as well? Whatever your view on the French decision (I've been unable to come to an opinion on the matter), at least they showed some measure of fairness...

[Muddleoftheroad]

9. My view is that BOTH are designed only for Muslims

They only mention other religions for cover. It is as anti-Muslim as it could be short of making them all wear crescent shaped badges.

I guess that is next?

[Vladimir]

15. I agree it comes across that way

but as I say the French is at least non-discriminatory in law. Which is more than the Germans have managed, so far...

[Muddleoftheroad]

16. Only in theory

The reality behind the law is that it was designed to stomp down on Islam and force Muslims to conform to the French uber culture.

[Vladimir]

17. Its one of the few issues

where having heard all the arguments I am still unable to make my mind up. Almost refreshing actually... although I do think you've got a point about the intent of the French legislation.

[Muddleoftheroad]

18. As an aside

Perhaps this will help you decide. This is a subject DucttapeFatwa and I agree on -- that it is overt religious discrimination. Imagine a subject so obviously wrong that he and I could find common ground.

[Vladimir]

19. LOL

Where is DF anyway? I haven't seen him around for a bit...

[Kellanved]

10. not true

What people love to overlook:
-this is a state affair; the federal Government has nothing to do with it
- this state law affects teachers willing to enter the public service. Being a public servant is still a special status, based on imperial/Prussian laws.
-This does not affect students.
-the law might yet fail in the Federal Constitutional court.

[Muddleoftheroad]

11. LOL

It's a state affair -- a state in GERMANY.

"mperial/Prussian laws," not the kind of term I like to hear in reference to anyone's religious freedom.

"he law might yet fail in the Federal Constitutional court." I hope so.

[Kellanved]

13. yup, surprise: Germany is a Federal Republic

The states ("Länder") are still organized like the Empire i.e. horizontal. This is the cause for many of Germany's recent problems, as the states can veto Federal laws.

not the kind of term I like to hear in reference to anyone's religious freedom.

You might want to read learn a little more European history. Despite it's bad reputation Prussia was a pretty liberal Empire: it was the first nation to introduce freedom of religion and mandatory schools for boys AND girls.

[Muddleoftheroad]

14. Yes, but that Prussian order went off the deep end

And I've read enough European history to depress me for a lifetime.

[Johnny Arson]

12. Nobody's perfect

I wish somebody would combine European/Canadian style liberalism and US style hardlining on expression rights.

Sigh...