CBS to air alleged GI abuse of Iraqis

[CShine]

NEW YORK -- U.S. military police stacked Iraqi prisoners in a human pyramid, and attached wires to one detainee to convince him he might be electrocuted, according to photographs obtained by CBS News which led to criminal charges against six American soldiers.

CBS said the photos, to be shown Wednesday night on "60 Minutes II," were taken late last year at Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad, where American soldiers were holding hundreds of prisoners captured during the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

In March, the U.S. Army announced that six members of the 800th Military Police Brigade faced court martial for allegedly abusing about 20 prisoners at Abu Ghraib. The charges included dereliction of duty, cruelty and maltreatment, assault and indecent acts with another person.

In addition to those criminal charges, the military has recommended disciplinary action against seven U.S. officers who helped run the prison, including Brig. Gen. Janice Karpinski, the commander of the 800th Brigade, a senior military official said Wednesday in Baghdad.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apus_story.asp?category=1110&slug=Prisoner%20Abuse%20Iraq

[PROGRESSIVE1]

1. O'Whorley and "Hitler Hannity" will on CBS's tail end for this!

I hope that CBS strikes back HARD!

[NMDemDist2]

2. they are disciplining a GENERAL???

holy cow! Did he miss the Geneva conventions 101 class in general's school?

these guys will be basket cases when they get back CHIT!

[Tinoire]

19. A she...

IOW easily sacrificed.

But not to fear... she'll get nothing more than a little slap on the wrist and a wink, wink award.

It would be too good if they did because in that case the entire chain of command over there would be court-martialed.

[calimary]

58. Funny, people were just screaming bloody murder about Kerry

daring to mention "atrocities" committed by some troops in Vietnam... It JUST COULDN'T HAPPEN! Not by OUR guys! Not possible! No way!

Well, well, well.

War ALWAYS makes people do horrible things. ALWAYS.

[saigon68]

86. That story is dead this one is much , much worse.

The photos are mind blowing, almost the most disgusting thing i have ever seen. The nudity and the sexual violence are much worse than the Udai autopsy photos.

[SOS]

144. From the 60 Minutes transcript:

"But the Army investigation found serious problems behind the scenes. The Army has photographs that show a detainee with wires attached to his genitals. Another shows a dog attacking an Iraqi prisoner.
Part of the Army's own investigation is a statement from an Iraqi detainee who charges a translator - hired to work at the prison - with raping a male juvenile prisoner: "They covered all the doors with sheets. I heard the screaming. ...and the female soldier was taking pictures."

Sickening.

[Wonk]

3. CBS link here

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/27/60II/main614063.shtml

[Christ was Socialist]

8. Heads UP: The next us troop to be captured

I bet they will one up our sadistic imperialistforces. Sick fucks

[Wonk]

140. mp3 & vp3 video here for those who missed it

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=109x8317

[ikojo]

4. This report is on 60 Minutes II..it looks like it's

going to be the first story of the night. Just what little I saw convinces me these people should be tried for war crimes. However, didn't Bush seek to exempt the US military from being tried for war crimes?

Addendum: Just as people ask Germans of a certain age what did they do to protest Hitler's policies, so too will future generations ask us what did we do to protest Bush's policies in the US as well as in the world?

[LittleApple81]

5. Just watching it now. All of humanity is slime. n/t

[JoFerret]

125. Same for soldiers as for the rest of us

“Frankly, I think all of us are disappointed by the actions of the few,” says Kimmitt. “Every day, we love our soldiers, but frankly, some days we're not always proud of our soldiers."

[jobycom]

7. Your second point is one we should all be making to others

"Just as people ask Germans of a certain age what did they do to protest Hitler's policies, so too will future generations ask us what did we do to protest Bush's policies in the US as well as in the world?"

I was making that same point earlier. We should make it more often.

[crossroads]

84. How quickly we have forgotten?

Yes, I agree this is a point we must all think on!

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

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[jobycom]

9. Probably because CBS actually gives a damn about human rights

instead of simply doing whatever it takes to win an election, like ABC, CNN, FOX, MSNBC, the NYT, and the WP do for Bush.

Democrats see the election as a means to an end, Republicans see it as some sort of prize.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

13. CBS is owned by Viacom who owns Infinity Radio Broadcasting....

who has Howard Stern as their big "money man". Viacom is owned and run by Sumner Redstone, a DEMCRAT.

They see that there is no use in hiding the horrors of this MISadministration.

[jobycom]

18. Didn't know that. Thanks.

I didn't Viacom was run by a Democrat. That explains why I check cbsnews.com rather than the others.

My post was a reply to an obvious troll (now deleted) claiming Rather was trying to elect Kerry. Makes less sense on its own.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

21. go to www.opensecrets.org and type in these names:

Redstone, Sumner
Karmazin, Mel

Both are BIGTIME Democratic Party fundraisers.

[Tinoire]

72. Thanks for that info. It explains a lot

That's one of the few I have any respect for.

[rumguy]

10. Truth should come out asap...don't you agree?

And how does this impact the boy king? I mean, it doesn't directly have any bearing on him...the military is court marshalling them, no?

[ikojo]

15. This WOULD impact the Boy King if the Dems were a

stronger opposition party. Imagine for a moment what the pugs would have said had similar stories come out of Kosovo during the Clinton administration, then you will have an idea of what the Dems should be saying about the Bush military machine.

After all Bush is the CEO (AKA Commander in Chief) of the military and as such he sets the tone for the corporate (oh I mean military) culture of the whole kit n kaboodle.

[rumguy]

16. I agree

But I don't see CBS as having a bias by reporting it...

[jobycom]

12. Wow, quick. It was obvious, but it must have been for something elsewhere

nt.

[jobycom]

11. Ever see Breaker Morant?

Soldiers taking the fall for following orders from much higher up.

[Tinoire]

78. That's the worse

And Interrogators, civilians, encouraging them. Telling them "Good Job".

On edit: Make that "Great Job".

---

<snip>

Frederick's letters and email messages home also offer clues to problems at the prison. He wrote that he was helping the interrogators:

"Military intelligence has encouraged and told us 'Great job.' "

"They usually don't allow others to watch them interrogate. But since they like the way I run the prison, they have made an exception."

"We help getting them to talk with the way we handle them. ... We've had a very high rate with our style of getting them to break. They usually end up breaking within hours."
----------------------------------------------------------------------

According to the Army’s own investigation, that’s what was happening. The Army found that interrogators asked reservists working in the prison to prepare the Iraqi detainees, physically and mentally, for questioning.

<snip>

But so far, none of the interrogators at Abu Ghraib are facing criminal charges. In fact, a number of them are civilians, and military law doesn’t apply to them.

<snip>

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/27/60II/main614063.shtml

[anarchy1999]

154. Oh my god. Tinoire. I missed this.

I am so sick. I am so sorry. I can't find any words. Just beyond belief! What have we done?

[saigon68]

14. WAR CRIMES ----OUTRAGEOUS FUCKING WAR CRIMES

Worse than Saddam. Committed by NCO'S

KIMMITT FORCED TO EAT CROW---THE HEAD----THE BEAK AND THE FEET.

I CAN'T EVEN DESCRIBE WHAT I JUST SAW. IT IS AS BAD AS BERGEN-BELSEN

THE ONLY THING MISSING WAS THE SHOWERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ON EDIT:

WAIT WHEN I START POSTING THE PICTURES. tHE ARMY HAS NO DEFENSE TO THIS SHIT NONE.

Naked IRAQI men photographed giving oral sex to each other with women MP's peering up their rectums while the act was being performed.

ELECTICAL WIRES ATTACHED TO A MAN'S TESTICLES TO FORCE HIM TO TALK.

A MAN FORCED TO STAND NAKED ON A PAIL WITH A BAG ON HIS HEAD WIRED UP TO AN ELECTIC PANEL WITH WIRES ATTACHED TO HIS PENIS, FINGERS AND FEET.

And all the time KIMMITT eating crow.

[Tinoire]

20. OMG.

I have no words.

[leftchick]

30. saigon, I missed it...

I think it is a good thing I did. Did 60 minutes do a good job here?
:(

[saigon68]

41. Excellent Job

And I guess so did Kimmitt

He was almost human

The evidence is unbelievable

[Tinoire]

87. Sorry Saigon68

I was a Senior NCO when I retired. I was expecting some ugliness, knew many of our soldiers were committing certain reprehensible crimes but never, never in my wildest dreams did I picture what you just described.

I am literally sick now.

Sand niggers.

They'll rot in hell. Same as Bush, Sharon and all the Sieg Heilers who supported and/or enabled this.

[saigon68]

106. I am ashamed Tinoire

I gave them 8 1/2 years. I was a combat photographer. Never ever did I see anything like it, not then, and not since. There are about 20 of them altogether and the lack of leadership that allowed it to happen was what upset Kimmitt the most. He did a credible job with explaining this outrage.

The problem here was dehumanizing the enemy

The war should be fought by policemen trained in law enforecement not 18 year old kids 3 months out of ait.

sorry for the rant.

[revcarol]

113. Kimmit only likes dehumanizing women and children.

Don't want to see women and children getting killed? "Change the channel."

You can't tell me that he was outraged when he is callous like that.

Seems that the men and women under him are taking their clues on how to behave FROM HIM.

[saigon68]

120. I'm not defending him

I am only telling the truth on this one point.

To me he is still



KRAZY KILLER KIMMITT enforcer for the Viceroy Pontius Bremer I

His quote " if you don’t like watching women and children die, change the channel."

[revcarol]

131. Sorry for the inadvertent mistake, My bad.

But soldiers DO take their clues FROM THEIR SUPERIORS AND LEADERS. And I can't believe that heartless Kimmit was anything but a "THEY DESERVE ANYTHING YOU WANT TO DO TO THEM" leader.

[Tinoire]

129. You know Saigon

I am ready to hurl my medals back at them. They mean nothing to me anymore. Every shred that I was ever in the military has been removed from my walls.

You're not ranting. I so understand you... About 10 minutes ago, I posted, in this thread, something about the obscene cost of this war and the great education it could have bought every single one of those soldiers over there. A Ph.D. for every single one of them...
:(

Instead.... :hug:

"I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked."

Jack Kerouac
Howl

[justjones]

137. Can you please clarify your use of the description "sand niggers"?

[Tinoire]

145. Accepted, condoned, encourage US military terminology

for Iraqis. It originated during GW I.

Disgusting isn't it?

[VolcanoJen]

90. DAMMIT DAMMIT DAMMIT, I thought it was going to be on 48 Hours!!!

SHIT! I missed it... and saigon, you better post those pictures.

OMFG. OMFG. Just horrible.

[saigon68]

112. Don't worry Jen Al Jazeera will have them up soon

I really don't want to post them they are disgusting, I'm really surprized CBS showed them although they blurred out the penises.

The part that really pissed me off were the male and female MP's with their thumbs up smiling at the naked men performing the sex acts. all caught on camera.

This stuff is going to take away the moral high ground from the Chimp and his gang of thugs.

[Vladimir]

161. I shouldn't be shocked

but somehow I am. Its a sign of how pervasive mass media is, I guess, that even to me it comes as a shock... no I guess what comes as a shock is that these bastards were caught. Of course, the real war crime that no-one will be ever charged for is the war itself...

[ikojo]

17. I have a feeling that more of this stuff has

happened and is happening NOW. Just today I heard on the radio that Bush has given the military free reign to do what must be done to secure Fallujah.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0428-09.htm

"Our military commanders will take whatever action is necessary to secure Fallujah on behalf of the Iraqi people," President George W Bush said on Wednesday.

"There are pockets of resistance and our military along with Iraqis will make sure it's secure," Mr Bush said.


My response was OY VEY!

[Tinoire]

97. The saddest thing

is that in life you are nothing more than the sum of your choices.

Bush has put some pretty decent kids in a situation where many of them are making reprehensible choices for which life will hold them accountable.

Can you imagine if those kids were on a College campus instead? Learning Math? Chemistry?

Can you imagine how much College and for how many $112,022,160,343 would have paid for? That's how much we've spent so far.

No money for schools, jobs or education. But for Carlyle? Billions galore... That's without putting a price on all the destroyed lives.

http://costofwar.com/

[mom cat]

132. Pockets of resistance - How many kids did we kill today

What are pockets of resistance? Are they people who cry and
bleed and struggle for dignity? This is one hell of a way to
liberate a people, huh? Why don't we just give up all
pretenses and call it genocide? If there are no more Iraqis
then we can have all the oil for ourselves. Or maybe we will
just shock and awe them into subservience. If pictures of
torture are disturbing to the dear general, maybe he should go
take a look at the bodies of the women and children we are
killing RIGHT NOW. He says that this is an army based on
values and that therefore those few bad soldiers should be
singled out and punished. Is what they did bad because it was
up close and personal? How is it more reflective of values to
drop cluster bombs and depleted uranium on civilians or to
send helicopter gunships into neighborhoods and fire at will?

[chelaque liberal]

157. I agree totally. Good post and welcome to DU.

You hit the nail on the head!

[tridim]

22. Is this "by the book" torture?

How did these monsters even come up with something as evil as that? Could it be related to the amphetamines we heard about yesterday?

[saigon68]

24. The one staff sergeant interviewed blamed "a lack of training"

I started shouting at the TV this guy was a prison guard in civilain life and he needs " TRAINING" NOT TO MAKE PRISONERS GIVE EACH OTHER "BLOW JOBS" in front of the Camera???????

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

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[saigon68]

25. Its amazing alright KIMMITT'S DENIAL

they are THUGS HOODLUMS AND WAR CRIMINALS

and I agree with you they have done an amzing job of emulating

the late

Juana Bormann




Juana Bormann was a murderous SS woman, who served in the deathcamp Auschwitz and Bergen-Belsen. She was known as The woman with the dogs, who took sadistic pleasure in setting her wolfhounds on prisoners to tear them to pieces.

And by the way Sporty one of accused admitted police dogs were used to extract confessions.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

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[saigon68]

39. ADIOS

)))))))))))))))))PING((((((((((((((((((((((

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

116. Deleted message

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[minkyboodle]

121. don't waste your time Tinoire

This board is infested these days its hard to go to any thread without stepping in freeper....
Scott

[thebigidea]

27. could you spare us the frothy blather on this thread?

Have you even SEEN those pictures?

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

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[leftchick]

35. keep them longer than they need to be,

deprive them of equipment and basic supplies. No out if you claim you are messed up in the head? NO fucking R&R for over a year? What has the US created? A huge amount of fucking monsters....

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

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[leftchick]

43. their behavior is the end result of the bad decisions by aWol* and Co.

So blame them if it makes you feel better.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

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[saigon68]

47. I have a solution

get out of Iraq!!!!

[saigon68]

45. What would you like to discuss??

Nothing much apparently

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

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[saigon68]

62. I didn't dodge squat

The War criminals are those who committed the crimes and their superiors.

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

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[nonconformist]

124. Maybe that's because the answer is common freaking sense? n/t

[saigon68]

156. kick

[newyorican]

49. the troops in question could be scum...

but the troops that turn the other way are just as scummy...

[JohnyCanuck]

31. Try telling these Iraqis what an AMAZING job the troops are doing.

http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

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[saigon68]

50. I'm sure the guys with the wired testicles

Think we are doing an excellent job.

[thebigidea]

52. They also really like cookies too!

Hurray for cookies! And hurray for America - friend of the Iraqi people. Why, just ask them!

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

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[thebigidea]

how the hell could you possibly think what's going on in Iraq...

... is anything close to "freedom"?

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

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[Don Claybrook]

68. Pardon me,

but what the fuck does that mean? I'd just LOVE to hear your definition of freedom. Go ahead, take a crack at it.

[saigon68]

69. Before I hit the alert button

I want to tell you I am doing it

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

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[Don Claybrook]

92. I know you're really busy right now

It must be hard fending off the anger of so many people with your unsupportable assertion, but I'm hoping to get to the head of your line. I asked you a question above regarding your statement about freedom. Would you mind explaining to me why anyone would consider what we've done in Iraq to be remotely related to freedom? Is this the sort of freedom you wish for us to have in the US? What does freedom mean to you?

Thanks for your time.

Oh, by the way, are you having fun? Is this the confrontation you've been waiting for all day? Are you on orders from Fresno, or are you hoping to make a name for yourself there by impressing the high-ranking, uh, illuminati?

[w13rd0]

126. you have no business being here...

...no, we are not bringing freedom. Sell that bullshit somewhere else.

[thebigidea]

71. No electricity. No freedom of the press. No security. No constitution.

No representative government. No legal system.

Talk of Americans staying for a decade or more.

Checkpoints.

"Turn in your weapons."

This is freedom?

Maybe for you - but I'm not a Communist, I'm an American. You sound like you HATE FREEDOM.

Are you with us or against us, comrade? Its like our Fearless Leader said.

[Name removed]

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[thebigidea]

89. if that's your idea of progress, you can keep it

Pleasant nightmares.

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

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[thebigidea]

98. I notice you aren't fighting for that so-called freedom.

There's still time to sign up, though. And if you're not fit, Halliburton could always use those that can't make the military cut.

You seem so confident that the Iraqis appreciate our presence, you should really take advantage of their famous hospitality.

[Name removed]

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[thebigidea]

114. oh, so that's ENOUGH?

You call yourself a patriot? 6 years and the country suddenly doesn't need you any more? Do you have something BETTER to do than help the grateful Iraqi people? Too busy with your BRIDGE CLUB, maybe?

What, you mean that bridge isn't built YET?

The tree of liberty & relentless freedom needs to be watered regularly with the sticky blood of staunch patriots.

Fallujah could use a level-headed straightshooter like yourself, unwilling to give reality the time of day, able to absorb endless amounts of propaganda and regurgitate it flawlessly.

I hear they welcome you with sweet-smelling flowers, flowers more lovely than Richard Perle ever thought possible...

May God CONTINUE to Bless America.

And of course I served, they replaced my skeleton with aluminium foil and I fought Nazis or something. I can't tell you about it, its all hush hush.

[Don Claybrook]

80. Not cookies. Starburst, damnit.

Please don't tell me we're giving them cookies. We need to give them Starburst, just like we did for the children of Afghanistan. And we should put them in the yellow plastic care packages that look just like the unexploded ordinance we left laying around. Remember that one?

[Name removed]

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[thebigidea]

93. well, the Germans were thoughtful enough to offer cleansing showers

Ah, those kindly Germans.

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

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[thebigidea]

104. not as demented at your assertation that the "Iraqies" want us there

not by a long shot.

That, my fine feathered friend - is sick.

I suggest a glass of milk and a nice nap.

[Don Claybrook]

105. You go, boy

Sick and thoughtless....that's the sort of thing you have to tell thebigidea. Otherwise, he starts to get big ideas. There's no way in hell he'll be able to come up with a reply to the brilliant sick and thoughtless charge. Well, he could play the truth angle, but he probably won't think of that.

[jobycom]

110. Normally

I wouldn't interrupt a great flamefest for a mere compliment, but that was funny as hell!

[Don Claybrook]

123. I'm just giving the thoughtful one what he wants

He came here to try to get things stirred up. Little does he know that most of us are not only well-versed on the issues, but also completely immune to inbreeder talking points. But I'm in a generous and talkative mood, so I'm trying to engage young Einstein in some conversation. He doesn't seem very receptive to my overtures.

[jobycom]

127. We oughta admit

he's actually not that bad. I mean, he's got the same old points we've debunked a million times, but he can spell and use actual sentences. And he hasn't flamed out yet. He's aggressive without being neanderthal. Puts him in the top 1% of disruptors. It's been fun, even.

Loved your sarcasm. Good wordcrafting.

[thebigidea]

130. unsurprising that a disruptor would target this article's thread

its so UGLY.

Indefensible.

[Don Claybrook]

96. Monaco

I would guess that Tonga and maybe even Fiji would leave care packages. But their care package czar would probably check with their death-dealing czar to coordinate and make sure they didn't mix up the packages. Marketing, dontchaknow.

[jobycom]

108. Even Bush admitted that was a publicity gimic

Bush has admitted the care packages were nothing more than a stunt to try to win favor from the Afghanis, and that there weren't enough "care packages" to amount to a hill of beans. Of course, it didn't work. People tend to not care so much for candy when they've just watched their nine year old daughter blown apart by a bomb.

[newyorican]

54. ahhhhhh...Koolaid...

so refreshing, so cool, so *URK*.....

[frank frankly]

142. LOL

i needed that!!!

so fucking funny!!!

[jobycom]

61. No they don't

The best the rigged polls could show was a bare majority of the one faction Bush was trying to put into power thought it was a good thing.

A more accurate poll would the actions of the Iraqis right now. Ain't no majority supporting us right now. Those loud bangs you hear are called bombs, not applause.

[Name removed]

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[jobycom]

102. What, you're telling me our troops can't overcome a minority of Iraqis?

We are in a lot of trouble, then. Rhode Island could take us over if our soldiers are THAT bad.

[stepnw1f]

77. Really... Any Proof?

[llmart]

32. Oh, puhleeze....

Look up the word "naive" in the dictionary. If you think it's only "a couple bad apples" then you need to pull your head out of the sand. I don't have any idea what your background is or how old you are, but take it from some of us who know, the military isn't a bunch of boy scouts.

[Name removed]

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[jobycom]

44. There are a lot of military people around here, JT. Vets, especially

Not me. But a lot. As for me, my best friend now was in Special Forces, my aunt was a colonel in the Army reserves after ranking captain in the active military, my father-in-law and two brothers-in-law were in the military, many of my current friends have served. One just got back from Bosnia two or three weeks ago. Not to mention I grew up between two bases-- Air Force and SeaBees. I get my info from the source, and my sources range from enlisted to high ranking officers.

I hope you don't buy that media lie that most in the military love Bush. Ain't true. Most I know despise him as a deserter who sent their friends to die for no reason.

[Name removed]

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[saigon68]

55. There are a lot of stupid War Criminals in IRAQ

Did you see the Pictures?

[jobycom]

56. Yep

One of the two.

[Name removed]

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[jobycom]

65. It caused the opponents of Hitler to lose, too

But I'll keep going with what I know is right, rather than what someone tells me is popular.

Of course, we won the last three presidential elections, before someone took a set of tweezers to the winning ballots, that is. "Florida goes to Gore. Oh wait, two counties just pulled their numbers. Hey, those counties now go to Bush." Uhuh. And there were WMDs in Iraq.

[Name removed]

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[jobycom]

95. No, I just assumed you knew the facts. My bad

First, Florida law requires that any uncounted ballots be counted. The Supreme Court overruled that. Gore didn't change any rules, Bush and the Supreme Court did.

Second, Florida law requires, as does Texas, that any hanging chad or partially punched ballot be counted if "in the opinion of the election supervisors" the intention of the person casting the ballot could be determined. Since Bush locked the ballots up and did not allow a hand count, that was never allowed, and was finally squelched by the SC. Another law Bush broke.

Third, what I'm talking about has nothing to do with recounts (you can't recount a ballot you've never counted in the first place, by the way, but that one may be over your head), it has to do with how EXACTLY enough ballots to give Bush the election wound up with extra holes in them from two counties that the exit polls showed Gore had clearly won, but the exact margin he would have won the election by if not for those extra holes in the ballots. I live in Texas, I know a thing or two about how people cheat with ballots. Ask any elections supervisor. Well, except Teresa LaPore, who had been Republican until around the time the Bush campaign began. But I doubt any Republican has the integrity to ask themselves how that was REALLY possible.

And none of that changes the simple fact that Bush lied to start a war (two really) that have led to-- according to conservative FOX News estimates-- the deaths of over a hundred thousand human beings who might have preferred to still be alive. That's a lot of grieving mothers, wives, and children. But then again, Bush doesn't even care about our soldiers' grieving families. Or our soldiers, since he's all hell-bent on slandering Kerry and Daschle's military records. I guess some Republican in another forty years will be slandering the soldiers who are fighting now when they begin running as Democrats.

Notice how few veterans in Congress are Repubs? Puts another crack in your idea that soldiers support Republicans, eh?

[Name removed]

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[jobycom]

115. That's a picture perfect analysis

from my own research. Neither the far left nor the far right likes me very much-- remember that.

I think I mentioned above concerning the military-- I get my facts from the source. I'm glad to see you admit I was right though. That's what I assume you admitted, since you didn't bother to counter.

[crossroads]

103. A gentle reminder...

Bush did *not* win the *election* --- he won the Supreme Court appointment!

[Name removed]

111. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mackay]

117. It's over... move on...

Hah... you must be shitting your pants that the Chimpyhawk is going to be packing his bags up to leave in a few months. Everytime a poster like you gets on the board, I have the ultimate satisfaction of watching their little facist fantasy world crumbling down around their ears.

[Kukesa]

159. It ain't over

until your BROTHER counts the votes.

What a farce.

Kukesa

[Eureka]

67. but at least they don't steal them!

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Eureka]

118. I never said republicans did...

but Bush* sure seems to have. If I were a republican (which I am by the way, just not the GOP kind) I'd be pissed right off that Bush* and his insane evil cohorts stole my party at the same time they stole the presidency.

Smaller govt was used to be a repub idea didn't it... Ooops
Fiscal responsibility used to be a repub idea didn't it... Ooops
The constitution was cool by the republicans right? Ooops.

[jobycom]

74. BTW, what you did there was called a "dodge"

As in you dodged my response and redirected it. I notice you are accusing someone else up the line of doing it, so I thought I'd point out that you just did.

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[thebigidea]

81. is that your Rumsfeld impression?

[Name removed]

91. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[thebigidea]

100. so, a Known Unknown, then?

Or was that an Unknown Unknown?

[jobycom]

119. My response

Generally a followup response has something to do with the post it responds to. When it doesn't, that's called a dodge.

As opposed to a Ford. As in, we can't a Ford Bush much longer. Sorry for the lame attempt at humor.

[jobycom]

36. Our troops are like any other troops. Some good, some bad, most

just follow orders and try to get by. Problem is, in a war zone without any clear directive, those who just try to get by tend to lean towards the bad, since hey, it's a war zone, who's following any rules, anyway?

I don't blame the troops, I blame the treasonour war criminals who lied to send them to Iraq, and who don't have a friggin' clue what to do with them now except to let them stand around and draw fire while wacking civilians.

Not to excuse the truly bad, but these guys are just doing what they know the leaders are doing in other places for interogation. This fish rots from the head.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jobycom]

53. Just the Republicans and two Democrats

Those who authorized Bush to use force IF NECESSARY were not the ones who lied to create a case for war, and many of them opposed what Bush actually did before he did it. Not enough, but many.

But the war criminals are the Republicans who lied to invade, not those who stupidly trusted the "president" to operate in good faith. That's not all Republicans, just those who led the charge.

[saigon68]

59. The MP'S forcing the prisoners to have oral SEX

Are the WAR CRIMINALS

THE OFFICERS AND NCO'S THAT ALLOWED THIS TO HAPPEN ARE WAR CRIMINALS

[justjones]

138. Question....

Not that this is any better, but what I understood from the report is that the picture showed prisoners posing "as if" they were having oral sex.....of course, that could be just a cover up, but isn't that what was said or did I miss something important?

However, I wish I would have misunderstood the accusation about a mail soldier raping a teenage male prisoner and hearing the screams from the room....my god, can this so-call "war" take us any further from being a humane society? :cry:

[jobycom]

128. Ah, he got nuked. Later dude.

I know it's bad decorum, but tip o the hat for a lively round. That's the type of debates I'd love to see more of.

[thebigidea]

26. Hey, all you Dershowitz supporters... now's a great time to defend torture

C'mon, its all for a good cause, right?

[jobycom]

38. Oh god, don't tell me

I must have missed that. Dershowitz, supporting torture? Another icon smashes to the floor.

[berry]

150. It's true about Dershowitz.

He wrote a book about it too. He defended torture in hypothetical cases where it was believed that the prisoner could be forced to reveal terrorist plans. It was a lesser-of-two-evils kind of argument. The book came out when the country was at the peak of hysteria about terrorism. He may have moderated his ideas by now.

I suppose we also have to wonder about all the detainees here in the US and at Guantanamo. Lots of interrogation going on there too. How would we ever know if similar things are happening, given the secrecy? There won't always be a slip that gives them away.

This is where the value of transparency becomes glaringly obvious--for those with eyes to see, at least. Painful though it is.

[Don Claybrook]

63. I don't think we're supposed to talk about this

I mean, McCain says that while we're in a war, we shouldn't call Cheney a chickenhawk. We have mass murderers and torturers in harm's way. So let's stop talking about anything that puts the administration in a bad light, lest we give aid 'n comfort to the enemy.

[jobycom]

70. LOL You know McCain's purpose, don't you?

Bush was losing that one big time. McCain was trying to give his party an excuse to move on.

[saigon68]

82. I saw McCain on TV tonight shilling for the NEOCons

It was a sad pathetic sight.

I loved the chickenhawk poster on the senate floor apparently McCain says "Move along nothing to see"

[jobycom]

122. He's a Republican, that's his job.

To be fair to him, he did stick up for Kerry's military record last week, and even then he said it wasn't a subject for Senate debate. McCain has just enough integrity to make me want to like him. I do like him, I guess, for a Republican. But he's not a Democrat, and he's not on our side, as some have forgotten from time to time.

[Iceburg]

101. 'Staying the Course' In Iraq is Untenable

The leadership of this country has failed its people.

Do read this ...
Former General Sees 'Staying the Course' In Iraq as Untenable - WSJ
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x47686

[Name removed]

133. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slinkerwink]

136. do you even realize that those prisoners were FORCED to do

oral sex by our AMERICAN guards?

[thebigidea]

139. I wonder if you'd giggle with wires attached to your genitalia

then again, you could be one of those William Bennett types and pay for it. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

(its just funny.)

[ImperialistLackey]

134. What's the squirrel's name?

Cute pic. What's his name? Let's have a poll to name the squirrel.

[Hand]

135. Ho hum...

You ARE a bore...

[Seldona]

141. I just want to cry.

Liberation my ass.

Can you imagine what the people in the Arab world are thinking?

This type of shit reenforces all the negative feelings they have about us.

And they are doing this shit on our dime ladies and gentlemen.

We are paying for this shit.

ARG!

I just want to scream.

[daleo]

143. This will put the coup de grace on any cooperation from Iraqis

Any Iraqis who were naive enough to trust in the intentions and integrity of Bushco or the U.S. military will now come down off the fence, firmly on the side of the resistance. Cudos to CBS for having the courage to make this public. One wonders, however, what else has been going on that is still well hidden. This news is amazing, simply amazing. It is as if BFEE is trying to outdo Saddam in every area he was accused of being a monster - mass graves, weapons of mass destruction (MOAB, napalm), now torture and humiliation.

The apologists will be out soon. Expect:
- only a few bad apples.
- nobody died, so lighten up.
- this is nothing compared to Saddam.
- a U.S. network exposed this, so that means freedom is at work, so don't be so upset.
- Iraqis did this willingly.
- and so on.

[Tinoire]

146. Yeah... I'm already getting that shit on another forum

from one of Ashcroft's internet goons.

So I went back and posted pictures. Want to make sure these pictures go all around the world and quickly.

[slinkerwink]

148. where did you get those pictures? I want to see them!

[Wonk]

149. Screen caps of the pics from 60 Minutes II here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=109x8317

[saigon68]

151. Here it is Folks is this DISGUSTING OR WHAT?????????????

SUPPORT THE TROOPS!!!!!!!!

[leftchick]

152. OMG saigon! I just saw them.....

It is the most sickest vile thing a human being could do. I can not believe that woman was FUCKING SMILING!!!! WAR CRIME TRIALS for them and KKKimmitt TOO! FOR the Fucking LOT of them. I am gonna be sick... :puke:

[saigon68]

153. THESE WILL WIN FRIENDS IN THE ARAB WORLD

[Vladimir]

162. Oh fucking hell n/t

[Barkley]

147. NAKED AGGRESSION!

Makes ya wonder what's been going on at Guantanamo Bay all this time?

[anarchy1999]

155. How many insurgents have we created? 1 maybe 2 times 10 for every

body you see being abused. Then factor in all those that are dead, and or maimed by our precision bombing. Well, the numbers of insurgents just go up and up, don't they? Once again, I ask all of you here, WHAT WOULD YOU DO??

I am so sorry. God, I am so sorry, please forgive my country.

[Vladimir]

163. I would get the fuck out of their country n/t

[Merlin]

158. Just sent CBS this Email.

[e-mail]

Subj: Heroic Journalism: "Court Martian in Iraq"

Hello,

I missed your show, but read about it and saw the pics.

I am a business owner and a combat veteran of Vietnam. I understand all too well the mentality of those who would commit this kind of atrocity. I remain distraught that our military still does not teach restraint, discipline and human civility to our troops.

Congratulations to your staff and management for your journalistic courage.

In a frightening time when US journalism has sunk to a tragic level of sycophantic spinelessness, CBS has evidently decided to break the mold and reclaim its mantle as the premier news source of integrity; the kind this nation used to admire and appreciate when people like Edward R. Murrow and Walter Cronkite ruled the waves.

In behalf of a grateful, thinking, aware minority in this once and future proud and honest nation, I salute you.

(name & address)

[markus]

160. So, with all the Deleted Messages in this thread

should we be monitoring Rush and Sean to see how we're giving aid and comfort to the enemy?

Hey, maybe we could get our own segment on Scarborough Country! I nominate Will Pitt to take our side.

[saigon68]

164. Just so you know

The deleted threads were ALL from one CRETIN who accused us of being BASICALLY UnAmerican for pointing out the KING (certian troops) had no clothes.

[Moderator]

165. Please continue discussion here

Locking due to size of thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x518039