Army, Navy, Marine Times call for Rumsfeld Myers Ouster

[othermeans]

Face the Nation reported today that an editorial appearing in tomorrow's edition will ask for the resignation of Rumsfeld and General Myers.

You'll need Adobe

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/face_050904.pdf

[skooooo]

1. can't read pdf...

Is this the title of one magazine??? I'm not familiar with it.

[BrotherBuzz]

Three different publications...

under one house.

[ablbodyed]

3. Three separate publications, but....

same format and type of readership. They've been surprisingly critical of the war.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

6. Because their readership/constituency is the servicemen/women! NOT

the Republican party or shrubco administration...

[alfredo]

7. Download Adobe Acrobat Reader.

PDF is very good. You can zoom it to where even you half blind neighbor can read it.

[othermeans]

12. Hi Skoooo Check out TacticalPeak's snip below

It sums up the Army Times article. But see if you can get Adobe even the Republican was hard put to defend the administration and to be honest it didn't even sound like he was trying

[drfemoe]

20. google html version >>

http://www.google.as/search?q=cache:Z27WNgcxXuoJ:www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/face_031404.pdf+%22face+the+nation%22+may+9,+2004&hl=en

OR = http://tinyurl.com/3bcxj

[seemslikeadream]

2. Just found a great photo

[thebigidea]

4. hey, I did that years ago!

Glad to see the concept catching on. Snicker.

[goforit]

28. roflmao!!.......Leonardo Divinchi would approve of this highly!!!

Great Photo!!!!

[Pale_Rider]

36. Most excellent!

:kick:

[TacticalPeek]

5. Some of the transcript:

SCHIEFFER: And good morning again.

Senator Biden is in Wilmington, Delaware, this morning. Here in the studio, Senator Chuck
Hagel. Joining in the questioning, Karen Tumulty of Time magazine.

Welcome to you all.

Lady and gentlemen, I want to share something with you. Tomorrow, the Army, Navy, Air
Force and Marine Times which as all of you know is basically the trade paper of the military,
it is civilian owned, nonetheless, it will go on sale at every military installation where United
States troops are based in this country and overseas with an editorial. And here in part is
what that editorial says. `General Myers'--he, of course, is the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of
Staff--`Rumsfeld and their staffs failed to recognize the impact the scandal would not only
have in the United States but around the world. On the battlefield, Myers and Rumsfeld's
errors would be called a lack of situational awareness--a failure that amounts to professional
negligence. This was not just a failure of leadership at the local command level. This was a
failure that ran straight to the top. Accountability is essential, even if that means relieving
top leaders from duty in a time of war.'

Now, Senator Hagel, you are a--a--a veteran. You know that this is a civilian-owned
newspaper but it is a powerful voice. It is the paper that everybody in the uniformed services
reads. This is an extraordinary statement for that newspaper to make. Do you think as a
practical matter the secretary of Defense can be effective when this is the kind of criticism
that's being leveled against him?

Senator CHUCK HAGEL (Republican, Nebraska; Foreign Relations Committee): Bob,
accountability is the--the one key dynamic of our system. That is affected by confidence and
trust in leadership, confidence not only in the policy, but the ability to lead and implement
that policy.

SCHIEFFER: Well, do you--do you agree with this editorial?

Sen. HAGEL: Well, I think accountability must be maintained here. We don't have all the
facts. We don't know all the pieces yet. But I think over the next couple of weeks, then the
president is going to have to make some hard choices here. The president is the--the
commander in chief. The secretary of Defense, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, they
serve at his pleasure. They serve to implement the president's policies. This is serious. This is
as serious a problem as we've had since Vietnam. You cannot have commanders at the top,
civilian military leadership at the top being questioned within the ranks of the military, aside
from the American people's lack of confidence or our allies around the world, not--not when
you're at war in two countries as we are today.

SCHIEFFER: Well, it sounds like what you're saying is that the secretary of Defense is not out
of the woods yet.

Sen. HAGEL: Well, that's the president's decision, but I again say, `Let's get the facts.' Be--
before we indict Secretary Rumsfeld, he's already acknowledged as has General Myers,
they've made mistakes. I think they have made major mistakes and we--we will see how far
this goes and where it goes. But, yes, I--I think it's still in question whether Secretary of
Defense Rumsfeld and, quite frankly, General Myers can command the respect and the trust
and the confidence of the military of the American people to lead this country.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

8. Everything going great! Nothing to see here folks! More Kool Aid,

anyone?

[maddezmom]

13. they both have lost the confidence and respect from the troops

time for the hook...they both need to go. And better take a look at Abizaid and Sanchez, they have their hands all over the cover-up. Sad days ahead for the military.

[fearnobush]

39. Support our troops by electing a real President.

May that be John Kerry.

<snip>
Sen. HAGEL:
Thi--this is deeper and wider than I think most in this administration understand. Aside from the fact we're losing the Iraqi people, we're losing the Muslim-Arab world and we're losing the support of our allies.

SCHIEFFER: Deeper and wider, what does that mean?

Sen. HAGEL: Meaning how dee--how deep this problem is. Senator Biden referenced it earlier. I think the point that Army, Navy, Marine Times is talking about. That--that is more than just the spec--specificity of court-martials of certain individuals for the actions and the behavior that they perpetrated on these Iraqi prisoners. Our policy, our confidence, our trust that people have in us must have in us and across--ac--across the globe. This is wide and
deep.

[saigon68]

27. THEIR JCS GODFATHER

MEYERS AS OFFENSIVE LINEMAN FOR NEOCON CORPORATIONS



WITHOUT A STRONG LAPDOG RUNNING INTERFERENCE THERE WOULD BE NO BROWN AND ROOT RECEIVING BILLIONS Of TAXPAYER $$$$$ TO “RECONSTRUCT IRAQ”




There would be no BLACKWATER USA to have its private MERCENARY ARMY flying its own PRIVATE MERCENARY AIR FORCE




to do WHATEVER under the sun it does..




THERE WOULD BE NO MERCENARY THUGS ACTING LIKE RAMBO WITHOUT THIS PATHETIC LITTLE MAN

[Just Me]

37. Mistake? MISTAKE!!!!!

They "mistakenly" stated that the international rule of law and any moral sense of human conduct DO NOT APPLY?

They "mistakenly" did NOTHING to correct abuses even after they had numerous notifications?

They "mistakenly" withheld a report from Congress and the American people and the world about explicit abuses?

They "mistakenly" told a media outlet to "hold" the information?

They "mistakenly" appointed a man previously in charge of a facility this administation has declared is beyond any rule of law other than what the administration proclaims as law,...to FIX the problem?

They "mistakenly" rejected a professional (even a Republican attorney) to address the situation?

I know what a freakin' "mistake" is,...particularly for those who endear escape from responsibility,...it is a soft word for criminal act.

[JoFerret]

9. Sums it up.

<< This was not just a failure of leadership at the local command level. This was a
failure that ran straight to the top. Accountability is essential, even if that means relieving
top leaders from duty in a time of war.>>

Time for them to go.

[Vitruvius]

16. And Bu$h is the top. And "accountability is essential, even if

that means relieving top leaders from duty in a time of war."

[rawstory]

10. NON PDF Link ....

I posted a summary of the key stuff (very brief) on Raw Story....


http://www.rawstory.com/exclusives/byrne/military_papers_rumsfeld.htm

[Judi Lynn]

31. Thanks for the quick link, but you should have given a barf alert!

My God, will Joe Biden NEVER shut the bleep up?

Sen. Joseph Biden (D-Del.) said he agreed with the editorial.

This is a sad moment," he said. "What we need is the kind of more clarity that occurred when the president stood on top of that rubble with the bullhorn and communicated to the American people he understood their feelings."
(snip)

This is downright embarassing for actual Democrats. How intensely and shamelessly CAN he suck up?

[JoFerret]

34. Agreed. Biden comes across in the transcript

as a blithering mindless loser.

[cliss]

11. And the tsunami rises.....

Donald Rumsfeld is on the shore. It's stormy. He sees the tsunami rising, right above him. The tidal wave keeps rising. Donald doesn't know how high it's going to get, but he knows that when it does come crashing down, it's going to take him with it.

Hopefully many others too.

Thanks, OM. That was a good article of the transcript.

[never cry wolf]

14. Frankly, I hope he stays

Maintaining rummy as SoD and pissing off the military can only harm shrubbie politically.

[Gothmog]

18. Rummie and Meyers should be fired

It is not going to happen but these two men need to be fired immediatedly if Bush wants to establish any kind of credibility. Hoever Bush does not care what the World thinks and firing Rummy and Meyers may hurt him with the hard core supporters.

[Karenina]

24. Feith and Wolfowitz

can follow in quick succession.

[Tansy_Gold]

48. "It's not going to happen."

Frankly, I'd be perfectly happy to see * and Unca Dick go out there and defend Rumsfeld and Co. just two or three more times, to plant them solidly in support of the farking criminal, and THEN be forced to bow to public opinion. I don't want them to go easily or quietly. I want as many major flipflops on *'s record as possible.

There are times when the prospect of big-time schadenfreude is the only thing that keeps me going.

[davhill]

15. Could the United States be facing it's first ever

Military Coup? It has happened elsewhere, can it happen here. Lots of other things are happening that I could never imagine in my country.

[skooooo]

17. Nah..not even close.

They may force Bush's hand and get him to change the policy in Iraq, but I don't think that qualifies as a "coup."

[BeHereNow]

22. Maybe so...

The troops have had just about enough nonsense
from the corporate masters.
Hee-hee...I guess the deliberate destruction of
our education system wasn't as effective as the neocons
intended it to be.
These soldiers may be ignorant through the fault
of our broken schools, but looks like they aint stupid!
BHN

[Tinoire]

23. It's a compassionate kind of coup ;) n/t

[dArKeR]

19. ‘On The Edge’ In Iraq - CBS

 A senior general and a Republican senator say the United States could lose in Iraq, and are pointing the finger at Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld.

“I think we are right on the edge in Iraq right now,” says Sen. Chuck Hagel.

Rumsfeld and his staff didn’t listen to military planners, and now the United States is “in a mess,” the Nebraska Republican said on CBS News’ Face The Nation.

“What is our policy? What are we doing? What is the possibility of us winning? That's all still in question,” said Hagel, a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. “I think it's still in question whether Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld and, quite frankly, General Myers, can command the respect and the trust and the confidence of the military of the American people to lead this country.”

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/09/iraq/main616398.shtml

[revcarol]

32. So nice of Hagel to stop at Myers and Rumsfeld(DAMAGE CONTROL)

This is a direct result of not treating POW's as POW's and extending them Geneva Convention rights, and "whatever" combattants must have a hearing to determine whether they are being lawfully held...

AND THE DENIAL OF THESE THINGS COMES FROM THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF.

Good for the Times, but why stop there?

[Art_from_Ark]

46. Absolutely, why stop there?

The buck goes all the way up to the top

[Tinoire]

21. The Military has been upset for a long time

Rumsfeld fired a bunch of Generals about 1.5 years ago to promote his own people. Not everyone was pleased.

Folks you are watching a putsch in action. The Military itself is leaking this scandal. There are good, decent people up there who can not stand what these Nazis have done to what was a professional army.

riverwalker (406 posts)
Fri May-07-04 07:46 PM
Original message
JAG: it reaches Douglas Feith


Torture Sanctioned by Pentagon

Bar Association: Torture Sanctioned by Pentagon Appointees
Salon is reporting that a report compiled by the Committee on International Law of the New York City Bar Association has found that the American military's treatment of detainees and prisoners of war in Afghanistan, Cuba and Iraq violates international law — and the compilers of the report say that the techniques employed by interrogators at prisons such as Abu Ghraib were "sanctioned by Pentagon political appointees."

Joe Conason of Salon reports that Scott Horton, a partner at Patterson, Belknap, Webb and Tyler and chair of the Committee on International Law was told by "senior" members of the Judge Advocate General Corps that high ranking political appointees were behind the abuse. Says Conason:

http://www.warblogging.com/

Lack of protection

<snip>

Indeed, Horton says that the JAG officers specifically warned him that Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Douglas J. Feith,one of the most powerful political appointees in the Pentagon, had significantly weakened the military's rules and regulations governing prisoners of war. The officers told Horton that Feith and the Defense Department's general counsel, William J. Haynes II, were creating "an atmosphere of legal ambiguity" that would allow mistreatment of prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan.


Douglas Feith, President Bush's Undersecretary of Defense for Policy — and number three man at the Pentagon — reportedly summed up Protocol One of the Geneva Conventions of 1977 as "law in the service of terrorism".

In the past, Conason writes, all interrogations conducted by military personnel were monitored by a member of the Judge Advocate General corps from behind a two-way mirror. All interrogations were monitored, and the JAG officer was "emplowered to stop any misconduct". But senior Pentagon officials removed that requirement. :wow: Not only did JAG officers no longer monitor interrogations, but private military contractors were allowed to conduct interrogations.

<snip>

After hearing the complaints of the JAG officers, Horton and his bar colleagues wrote to Haynes and the CIA's general counsel in an effort to clarify U.S. policy on the treatment and interrogation of detainees. Those inquiries, he recalls, "were met with a firm brushoff. We then turned to senators who had raised the issue previously, and assisted their staff in pursuing the issue directly with the Pentagon. These inquiries met with a similar brushoff." The Bush administration wanted no meddling by human rights lawyers as it brought democracy and human rights to the benighted region.

<snip>

Horton says that career military officers at the Pentagon were "greatly upset" by what they regarded as the deliberate destruction of traditions and methods that have long protected soldiers as well as civilians. Those officers, and others who may have evidence to offer, are obviously reluctant to step forward and speak because they fear reprisal from the Pentagon and the White House. They have been instructed not to talk to anyone about these issues. It is to be hoped that in the investigations to come -- whether or not Secretary of State Donald Rumsfeld and Undersecretary Feith keep their jobs -- those conscientious officers will be able to tell what they know about the decisions that led to this national disaster.


<snip>

http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2004/05/07/rights/index.html

They're going down. The entire house of cards is CRASHING down.

[ima_sinnic]

25. I predict that stubborn imbecile Bush will "stand by" Rumsfeld

and insist that he NOT resign. And the long-term negative fallout from that will be excellent. Popcorn, anyone?

[othermeans]

30. I don't know about that

You can go down the toilet in the Fuhrer's bathroom if you are disloyal or it looks like the paper trail leads to the Chancellor.

e.g. Secretary Paul O'Neill and Secretary Christy Whitman

However I will take you up on that popcorn lite butter please

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

26. Wow. I think CBS has really turned the worm on this.

They are sounding like their old news-gathering selves instead of the cheerleaders for the NeoCons.

I suppose the inmates have taken over the asylum on W 57th.

[othermeans]

33. A little late but better than never

Bob Schiffer is great. He has been asking the right questions all along.

[NMDemDist2]

29. hubby (exMP) has been saying this all along

the troops won't be loyal to officers that let the troops "hang"

mutiny in the ranks 'bout time!

[Skittles]

35. I agree

from the start this piece of shit misadministration has used and abused our troops. This does not excuse the actions depicted in those photos but DAMMIT SOME BIG HEADS BETTER F***ING ROLL.

[glitch]

38. they're not going anywhere until they've answered for 9/11 nt

[SpillTheLegumes]

40. So now one editorial speaks for all the military pubs?

Excuse me while I don't buy it.

[rawstory]

41. it's not fictitious, if that's what you mean

Don't buy it? Oh, CBS news just made it up? Unlikely.

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. That is the way military times works

You don't buy it, I should know. I have bought it at the PX many a times

This is usually called the propaganda times by many in the service, but the discontent was raw six months ago... now they are asking for Rummy's and Myers head, this is NOT minor. I repeat, this is NOT minor

By the way, pass the popcorn will ya... the F-5 Hurricane, combined with Tsunami and 9.0 Richter earthquake is just begining...

Strap in, it will get VERY CHOPPY

[tedzbear]

44. I would LOVE to see General Myers go down with Rummy.

There is something about him that I don't like--could it be EGO?

[nolabels]

43. George W. Bush could never relieve any of these people of their post

George W. Bush is a front man, a sock puppet, a Pinocchio that still has most of the strings attached. Nixon had strings attached to him also but had enough of a brain to figure out who he get rid off when necessary.

I said it before, but it bears repeating. George W. Bush could no more get rid of any of his PNAC cabinet cabal members, than you would able go shopping at your local supermarket in your birthday suit. They decide collectively on matters like this. Heck he has said it himself, he is running the USA like business. His advisor's tell him what to do, and he does it, not visa-versa.

US Attorney General denies naked statue cover-up

The US government's top lawyer is denying embarrassing claims he's ordered a cover-up of a naked statue.



US Attorney General denies naked statue cover-up

The US government's top lawyer is denying embarrassing claims he's ordered a cover-up of a naked statue.
(snip)
&imgrefurl=http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_507109.html%3Fmenu%3D&h=444&w=300&sz=18&tbnid=8j-KkxrBsQkJ:&tbnh=122&tbnw=83&start=4&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dembarrassed%2Bnaked%2B%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DG

[sofa king]

45. How deep is the $h!7 going to get on this one?

...Because ultimately, guess whose bright idea it was to haul all those contractors in?

"The use of such companies in U.S. military operations dates to the first President Bush. After the 1991 Gulf War, the Pentagon, headed by then-Defense Secretary Dick Cheney, paid a Halliburton subsidiary, Brown & Root Services, nearly $9 million to study how private companies could provide support in combat zones. Cheney went on to serve as CEO of Halliburton before becoming vice president." USA Today, of all sources....

This is turning out to be a real mess. And oddly enough, I just started reading John Dean's book. I just turned to the chapter entitled "Scandals, Or Worse." One of Dean's major premises is that the culture of secrecy which defines this administration creates a climate where accountability is diffused and misconduct is allowed to foster. He gets real close to saying it's just a matter of time: "I make no pretense as a prognosticator. But I can recognize gathering storm clouds." (Worse Than Watergate, p. 193)

Look to me like the clouds have just burst asunder.

[rawstory]

47. Anyone come across a big media link?

Haha ...I excerpted the transcript on Raw Story, http://www.rawstory.com and now we're getting mega-hits ... but I can't find the story in the press anywhere. Did they just drop the ball or did CBS run with something that hasn't turned out to be true?

Anyone see the hard copy of the paper?

[rawstory]

49. BBC hits the story

Bush battles to defend Rumsfeld


The latest pictures show detainees being threatened with dogs (AP Photo/Courtesy of The New Yorker)
President George W Bush is to visit the Pentagon for a briefing on Monday, amid continued pressure on his Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

The president is scheduled to make some public remarks after the briefing, which is expected to focus on the prisoner abuse scandal in Iraq.

Mr Bush has backed Mr Rumsfeld despite mounting calls for his resignation.

Military newspaper the Army Times has joined in with an editorial in effect calling on Mr Rumsfeld to be sacked.

The private newspaper, widely circulated at military bases, said Mr Rumsfeld and the US' top general, Richard Myers, should be held accountable for their failures, US media report.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3699453.stm

WOW -- I AM thoroughly unimpressed by the mainstream media -- this came out on Sunday morning and NONE of the national papers have even covered it.

[maddezmom]

50. Reuters link:Rumsfeld Criticized by Influential Military Paper

~snip~
Army Times is one of four such publications owned by the Gannett Co., and has a circulation of about 250,000. The same editorial was carried in the Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps Times newspapers.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, already facing demands from some Democrats and major newspapers that he quit over his handling of the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by Americans, said on Friday he would not step down "simply because people try to make a political issue out of it."

President Bush has expressed support for Rumsfeld and said he would remain part of the Cabinet.

~snip~

Many U.S. newspapers have demanded Rumsfeld's resignation, including The New York Times, St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Seattle Post-Intelligencer, New York Newsday, Boston Globe, Minneapolis Star Tribune and Detroit Free Press. The Wall Street Journal, the Chicago Tribune, Chicago Sun-Times and New York Daily News published editorials supporting him.


http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=5092672

[maddezmom]

51. kick