Chavez cries fraud in referendum bid, orders probe

[Feanorcurufinwe]

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez accused opponents on Tuesday of using fraud in their effort to force him to face a recall vote, and he ordered an inquiry that could complicate a referendum ruling expected this week.

<snip>

Opponents of the populist president have repeatedly accused him, his government and electoral officials loyal to him of trying to block an August referendum by inventing false fraud charges.


<snip>

"They have assured us this will be done in a timely fashion, probably by the 4th of this month (Friday), no later than the 5th," former U.S. President Jimmy Carter told a news conference before Chavez made the fraud allegations. Carter, the 2002 Nobel Peace Prize winner, and Organization of American States chief Cesar Gaviria, a former Colombian president, led international monitoring of the weekend signature checks.

<snip>

Playing down opposition fears of cheating and delays, Carter and Gaviria urged the National Electoral Council to make a quick referendum decision to maintain credibility.

<snip>

Chavez repeated an assurance he gave to Carter and Gaviria that he would respect whatever final decision the electoral authorities took on the referendum.

http://www.reuters.com/financeNewsArticle.jhtml?type=bondsNews&storyID=5315986

[bemildred]

1. "firebrand nationalist"

Well, that's a little more accurate than "Cuban style dictatorship".
This is a rehash of already known stuff.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

2. Whatever you call him, the question is

whether he will abide by the decision of the Electoral Council.

[Mika]

3. To be fair, here are some other snips from your link

security forces had found evidence that opposition voters used false identities, including the names of dead people, to reconfirm disputed pro-referendum signatures in official checks over the weekend.

"Without any doubt, in the last few days we have witnessed very strong evidence of a new attempt at fraud," Chavez told reporters in Caracas.

-

But Chavez told the observers they should remember Venezuela was an independent nation.

He said the electoral authorities should not be pressured into announcing a result, especially in the light of the evidence of fraud.

"Several thousand dead people have turned up signing (the referendum petition)," he said.

-

police raids on opposition centers had discovered "laboratories" to produce false identity cards.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

4. Yes 'Chavez cries fraud' is what the article is all about.

Chavez claiming, again, that the process is a fraud. The salient question is whether or not he will accept the decision of the National Electoral Council or not, as he has said he would.

Chavez repeated an assurance he gave to Carter and Gaviria that he would respect whatever final decision the electoral authorities took on the referendum.
http://www.reuters.com/financeNewsArticle.jhtml?type=bondsNews&storyID=5315986

[Karmadillo]

28. Outrageous! A blatant attempt by Chavez to deny the dead their right

to participate in the running of the country. I don't see how the US can stand by and see democracy subverted by this monster. I say invade now! Viva los muertos! Maybe we can install Jose Duarte as President. Sure, he's no Venezuelan, and, yes, he's dead, but the blood that flowed during the period when he ran El Salvador shows he's our kind of guy. He can build the kind of consensus between the living and the dead, between the Americans and the Venezuelans, between the oil and our gas tanks that is essential if freedom is to grow and flourish.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

5. Ten percent of ratified signatures checked

At the same time, Sobella Mejías, president of the Civil and Electoral Registry Committee of the CNE, rejected the rumor that the claim books used during the ratification process included names of deceased people. "Never in the history of Venezuela has an (electoral) result been decided by the vote of presumably dead people," she said. "The voting dead is a myth."

Meanwhile, Jimmy Carter, president of the Carter Center, and César Gaviria, secretary general of the Organization of American States (OAS), the main international organizations observing the process, showed confidence that next Friday announcement by the CNE will help the Venezuelans find the peaceful, democratic, constitutional and electoral solution to the political crisis the country is facing. However, when asked about their sudden visit to the CNE on Tuesday afternoon, Carter and Gaviria said they could see that "the CNE was not doing the totaling job."

<snip>

Carter also said President Hugo Chávez had, once again, told him in an extensive conversation that he will accept the results "as the CNE announce them" next Friday.
Gaviria, for his part, said that the claim process was "better designed and prepared" than other operations as a result of the experience obtained during the signature verification process, when "as we all know, there were many difficulties with the norms and changes in criteria."

He also said that the possibility of a fraud is totally ruled out. "With the design of the system, it is supremely difficult to commit fraud, especially massive fraud. It would require the complicity of many people from both sectors and we believe that it is highly improbable," he said.

http://www.eluniversal.com/2004/06/02/02A465471.shtml

[The Magistrate]

6. A Sound Move, Sir, By Col. Chavez

There has undoubtedly been a proportion of fraud in the petion process, and he is entitled to a clean bill in this matter. Persons who claim they acting in accord with the law, as his opponents do, must do so straight down the line, without the slightest trespass.

In this matter, of course, delay is the key: the more the thing is put off, the more disheartened the foe grows, and the less effect the thing will have. The goal at minimum is to delay the matter past the 18th of August, after which even defeat would leave Col. Chavez in effective control of the government through his Vice-President.

[bemildred]

7. This story seems to be a bunch of blather to me Sir.

I can't see why Chavez should be in a hurry to help the
opposition in any case. Is Bush trying to help Kerry?
What a bunch of whiners.

[The Magistrate]

8. Indeed, Sir

He should be doing everything he can, by the letter of the law, to obstruct the opposition, and it seems he is doing so. Complaints of this are like dismay the sun does not rise in the north, but continues its ascent from the east each morning.

Most of his contentions concerning the signatures seem likely to me to be well-founded: in my city we have a long tradition of grave-yard participation in the electoral process....

"Just because they're dead don't mean they stopped being Democrats!"

[Vladimir]

10. Indeed so

of course the entire monitoring process is both an insult to Venezuelan sovereignty and an affront to our colective intelligence - all the same, Chavez agreed (like he had a choice) so now he has to play this game. No one said he has to play with one hand tied behind his back though - not everyone is as stupid as Al Gore in this regard.

Death to fascism! Freedom to the people!

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

11. As an FYI the poster of this thread has PMed me that Chavez is a liar

so there's no discussion with someone who has so vehemently made up his mind.

[HuckleB]

12. Interesting.

So are you saying we shouldn't discuss with you either? After all, your DU name indicates that you've vehemently made up your mind as well.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

14. It would seem that way to me if I were you. I would be willing to admit

chavez to have lied if he did. My name is in reference to the 2000 coup attempt. Its not something that I would be able to change should he decide to go on a murderous rampage. But I don't think he would.

I do, however, concede to your point.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

17. Hey - if I don't know you and didn't ask you to PM me and you seem

to want to start some sort of argument - why shouldn't I mention it. An unsolicited pm is fair game to me.

[Vladimir]

16. That, my friend, was obvious

:)

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

18. Wait, now I'm confused.

Is this the same person who said that they were not ready to judge and that history itself would judge Mr Chavez, blah, blah, etc.(I'm paraphrasing here)? Damn, how quickly that changed.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

19. You got me. I do recall seeing that

Alas!

[Vladimir]

20. And where have you been mate?

:hi: and how have you been for that matter?

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

21. Yeah I expected to hear from you a bit sooner, 'round this turf!

Good to hear from ya!

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

23. Haven't had a lot of time to post lately. Good to hear from you guys too.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

22. I've been chillin' for the most part. I know I've been away for a while.

Things are OK. I thought I'd check in with my fellow fringe radical dictator lovin' leftists. I see that the more things change the more they stay the same. Huh!

[Vladimir]

24. Well make sure you allow some time around

the referendum if there is one. I expect there may be a lot to talk about...

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

25. Talk? It'll be more of this verbal group tennis match except worse

much worse

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

26. Sure. I can already tell that WIndy sent in a representative.

It should get interesting.

[Vladimir]

27. Aaaaahhh

Windy... :cry: :cry: :cry:

[ugarte]

9. How do we get the OAS to oversee our next election?

We need Jimmy Carter in Florida,.

[HuckleB]

13. Yup!

That would be nice!

:)

[Feanorcurufinwe]

29. I fully agree. We need international monitoring. nt