Army Issues Order to Stop U.S. Soldiers from Leaving

[Purveyor]

Wed Jun 2, 2004 10:42 AM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Army has issued an order preventing thousands of soldiers designated for duty in Iraq or Afghanistan from leaving the military even when their volunteer service commitment expires, officials said on Wednesday.

The move to extend the service of some soldiers involuntarily was the latest sign of increasing stress on the Army as the Pentagon strives to maintain adequate troop levels in the two conflicts.

Lt. Gen. Franklin Hagenbeck, the Army's personnel chief, denied that the move was a sign of desperation for the Army, although he did acknowledge that the Army was "stretched."

Link to entire Reuters article

[truhavoc]

1. Is this provision included when you enlist?

That you can be forced to stay past your commitment if needed? I would think that there would need to be a draft in order to retain those who have achieved their commitments. Think of went you sign a lease, you can't be forced to rent at that location after your lease expires. All I can say is, here goes another decrease in the number of people that will enlist.

[Hand]

4. Yep, it's a stop-loss order...

It's not unlike being drafted, except that you're already in the army and you're not allowed out...

:wow:

[mulethree]

15. isn't this better than letting them go and 'activating' them again?

If they were allowed/forced to leave the army, then they would go to an inactive reserve status? Then they could be immediately activated and would change to 'reserves' status in regard to their family circumstances, housing, dependent medical care etc?

So is retaining them in this fashion preferable to letting them technically leave but then classifying them as activated - inactive reserves? It seems that if the army were to threaten to treat them as reserves, then they would force a lot of re-enlistments by soldiers who want to be home when their family goes through the transition?

[RobertSeattle]

13. Yep - it's in the fine print

http://www.dior.whs.mil/forms/DD0004.PDF

9.2.c.

In the event of war, my enlistment in the Armed
Forces continues until six (6) months after the war ends,
unless my enlistment is ended sooner by the President of
the United States.

Since this is an endless war, bend over...

[SquireJons]

17. Since this is an endless war, bend over...

You said what I was thinking. Cardinal Richelieu (cheney) has already said at least three times that the US is involved in a decades long, world wide armed conflict. So do they contend that the Army has the right to indefinitely compel these people to stay? I don't see how that cold be constitutional, regardless of what's written on the paper they these people sign.

Seems to me that if you want to really piss off the rank and file, this is the way to go.

If they keep this up, I'm beginning to believe that Kerry will win with over a ten point margin regardless of what Nader does.

[never cry wolf]

26. IS this a war?

I mean is this an officially declared war and wouldn't that proviso apply only to a legally declared war?

[bullimiami]

29. war has not been declared

so it would seem that this does not have the force of law behind it.
but bushco doesnt care about law.

[Th1onein]

2. They're doing it again..........

[Spazito]

3. Wow!

Another glaring indication of how bad bush, rumsfeld, etc. screwed up and how Shinseki was sooo right. I feel so bad for the soldiers and their families, this must be hell for them.

[saigon68]

30. Why would anyone want to JOIN IN THIS CLUSTER FUCK

No one in my family will---- we are sitting this one out.

[UpInArms]

5. wonder how that military vote is going to work in the GOP's

favor this time?

The Army issued so-called "stop loss" and "stop movement" orders for soldiers in all units that will deploy outside the United States to take part in future missions in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The Army has previously issued such orders covering some troops in the two conflicts, but not as broadly as the latest move. Since the attacks on the United States on Sept. 11, 2001, some 45,000 soldiers have been affected by similar orders, Hagenbeck said.

Let's see, we have outright lies at the recruitment level, deception over compensation, loss of benefits and lots of "stop-loss" orders.

[AndyTiedye]

39. Bush Can Count on the Military Votes No Matter What He Does

> wonder how that military vote is going to work in the GOP's favor this time?

By letting Accenture (Arthur Andersen) is counting all the military votes. That's how.
They're making sure.

[Don_G]

6. Some Units Are Down

To a 25% retention rate. I guess Dimbo is going for 5 or 10 percent.

[FleshCartoon]

7. Does Georgie et al know...

...that in order to completely implement a fascist regime, you must have the military on your side?

Apparently not. Let's not tell them, agreed?

[Philostopher]

8. Yeah, boy.

If I were active duty and in a combat zone, that's the guy I'd want next to me, watching my back -- the guy who didn't want to be there. The guy who's seething with resentment because he thought he wasn't going to have to do this, but now he's stuck and there's nothing he can do about it. They'll get good service out of them, I bet.

[SquireJons]

20. I doubt that's too much of a concern

The bond between fighting soldiers is strong, they literally love and die for each other. That's the nature of battle. They're in it too deep to see over the edge of the trench, but there are 1.4 million service personnel, and twice that many dependents (of voting age). These people will not be so accepting of the circumstances. It's one thing to support the troops, and another thing to vote for the arrogant bastards who literally have indentured their loved ones.

I'll bet every time they do this, we get another quarter million votes. Let's just hope that when Kerry takes office, he'll have the sense to recognize a quagmire when he sees one. I worry about his affinity for the Jewish vote.

[Philostopher]

24. I still think it depends on how much they want out.

And I think you can, however inadvertently, force an attitude problem on the ones who really wanted out. Even if they're not poor backup, they're likely loose cannons out in the field. Anybody can get enough, eventually. It's why they did one-year tours during Vietnam.

Of course, my experience was with the Air Force (I was a dependent), and was during a big troop-cutting phase, and I don't think AF guys (other than cops) are usually deployed in anything but a backup position, doing tech and hospital duties. Still, there are plenty of active duty people writing unhappy letters to Stars and Stripes. Just as an aside, I have noticed many of the S&S letters come from Avianno, Italy -- a big Air Force base.

[DulceDecorum]

9. The Fugitive

slaves of the military
are bound to serve.
Should they desert their owner
then they become fugitives of justice
to be hunted down
and delivered up
as payment for the debts incurred
by the one armed bandit
of Diebold.
Amen.

You notice that this order only affects those who are overseas,
since the Thirteenth Amendment states explicitly that slavery shall not occur WITHIN the US.

[Florida_Geek]

10. Big Diff from Vietnam War

Tours were 365 days and if you were drafted, you got out after a VN tour with a early release.

Bush have screwed up the military big time.

[maxrandb]

11. Yes, It has happened alot lately

Most folks sign an 8 year obligation when they enlist in the military. It's sold to the recruits as either a 4 year active duty, or 3 year active duty followed by the remainder of the 8 years in either an active, or individual ready reserve status.

Unfortunately, this is often "breezed" over when the recruits sign the paperwork. But, in the event of national emergency, or war, you can be prevented from getting out and ordered to remain on active duty. I'm not sure if they can keep you past your 8 year total obligation though.

A while back there was an issue where the recruiters, either from poor training, or whatever, told folks that they would get 50% of their base pay as retirement for doing 20 years. Turns out that is not the case. It actually worked out to like 40% or something.

Just a great example of making sure you read the fine print.

[teryang]

12. Here's a bold faced lie-

<Army spokesmen were unable to give a figure for how many soldiers would be affected by the orders beyond saying it will be in the thousands. >

Right, Army manpower planners have no idea how many tens of thousands of soldiers are going to be affected by this. That's how they manage their personnel policies, by not knowing. The truth is that the answer is too politically damaging to mention.

[ranosgol]

14. active / inactive reserve

I was active duty in the Navy. When you enlist in the service you enlist for both active and inactive reserve time. For example if you sign up for 4 years, you actually sign up for 8 years. The first four years are active and then you are place don inactive reserve for the other 4. They can turn that reserve time into active in certain situations so that is what the Army is doing. Soldiers who’s active duty obligation is up they are going to keep them active instead of letting them go to the inactive reserve.

[teryang]

18. They can extend anyone if they want

...whether the total obligation is served on not. I know nco's and warrants that were extended during Desert Storm whose retirements were imminent and who were extended indefinitely. The bottom line is that you serve at "the pleasure of the President."

[trogdor]

23. Close.

Somebody who has 20 years in and plans to retire would incur ZERO IRR obligation, but is STILL affected by stop-loss.

You have a lot of career military who have had more than enough of this shit, and one more deployment alert would be sufficient to cause those whose ETS dates fall within the 90 day window to tell the Army to fuck off, and take a bunch of his subordinates with him. NCO's, after all, lead by example. Thus, the extention of stop-loss to 90 days prior to unit deployment.

Despite what that POS Hagenbeck says, the Army is shitting its collective pants on retention.

Oh yeah, welcome to DU.

[NNN0LHI]

16. Will these troops take it out on their Crackhead In Chief in November?

I doubt it. They will probably just air out some more Iraqi civilians to "let off some more steam". Hooo Haaa.

Don

[sazdem]

19. It's not a matter

of taking something out on anybody. It is a contractual agreement.

[NNN0LHI]

21. What. These people can't vote? Is that what you are saying? n/t

[havocmom]

35. They can vote, but wouldn't their votes be absentee ballots and therefore

at the mercy of whoever is contracted to provide mail service in and out of Iraq? Anybody see a chance for vote tampering here?

[trogdor]

25. Doesn't friggin' matter.

They aren't being sent there to defend America. They're being sent to satisfy the caprice of one George W. Bush.

[BrotherBuzz]

22. I'll take the high road and believe...

that they will vote against Bush* in November. Of course, they can't vote if they aren't registered to do so. Send a voter registration form to any overseas soldier you know. Spread the word.

(Don, your sarcasm is duly noted)

[maxrandb]

27. Except that

they are fed a steady diet of repuke propaganda via your's and mine tax dollars to support Rush Limbaugh on Armed Forces Radio.

By the time you've gotten the Rush indoctrination, these bastards could rape your grandmother in front of you and you'd blame the liberal democrats.

I know. After years of listening to Rush and his ilk, we needed to do an intervention with my two formerly wing-nut brothers. Both have now opened their eyes and are voting Kerry in november. Yahoo!

[bluedog]

28. tell the repugs this

for all you Bush supporters and war supporters to get your asses down to the recruiting station and join the fight against terrorism.

You bought the story now go fight the battle.

Too old you say...join the Blackwater frims over there..they'll gladly give you a rifle and ammo.........want to see the killing of Iraqis...join in the master hunt.......
our boys are dying thinking they were told the truth about the reasons for the war...its all freaking lies..and some one damn well better start speaking LOUD and clear about this !!!!!!!!

[struggle4progress]

31. U.S. Army Temporarily Stops Retirements for Iraq-Bound Troops

U.S. Army personnel from both active and reserve units who are tapped for duty in Iraq or Afghanistan can't retire or transfer until after the unit returns home, the service announced.

It's not clear how many troops will be affected, Lieutenant General Franklin Hagenbeck, deputy chief of staff for personnel, said. The last time the Army gave this order was during the 1990 build-up to the Persian Gulf War and it affected 45,000, he told a breakfast meeting of defense reporters in Washington.

The order is the latest move to buttress U.S. forces in Iraq. Earlier, tours for 20,000 soldiers were extended three months, a brigade of 3,600 troops was moved from South Korea to Iraq, and the Army said that two premier units used to train deploying units will themselves be sent to Iraq.
<snip>

He said it would be inaccurate to portray the ``stop-loss'' order as a desperate step to retain troops.
<snip>

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=a6L1KGUBMQlI&refer=us

[Bandit]

32. In the civilian realm this would be called "Breach of Contract"

LIARS all of them. They made a deal with those enlistees and are now going back on their bargain.

[RetroLounge]

33. Army Issues Order to Stop U.S. Soldiers from Leaving

except in coffins...

RL

[Beaker]

34. shit like this will keep more people from signing up in the first place...

a draft is inevitable...we might as well start looking at the upside-

it'll take some people out of the civilian labor pool, opening up more jobs for others to fill, plus military service companies such as KBR, etc. will need to hire more people- and the soldiers will need to be equipped- hopefully with more reliance on American suppliers and American made equipment.

[colonel odis]

36. look for a lot of guys shooting themselves in the foot and/or

saying they're gay.

[Mari333]

37. My stepsons unit is POed

and so are the families
Watch for more military family members to kick major ass in the press
The Bush admin has royally screwed the US military, and the grunts on the ground, many of them, know Bush screwed them.
They hate Rummy and call him names , thats the scuttlebutt.
http://www.mfso.org
http://www.vaiw.org
http://www.bringthemhomenow.com

[qanda]

38. My sister just told me the other day

That a recruiter is after my 20 year old nephew. I haven't talked to him so I don't know how much they were able to get to him, but it is very frightening. They are promising to pay for his education and I don't understand why this is a selling point because my sister and her husband are able to foot the bill for college. I know that the recruiters are like stalkers and very good at manipulating young minds and so I am worried that he will make a very bad decision.