Airline executives present dire picture of industry

[Kadie]

Airline executives present dire picture of industry

By BRAD FOSS, AP Business Writer

WASHINGTON (June 3, 1:19 pm PDT) - Airline executives said Thursday that rising fuel costs have undermined a budding industrywide recovery and that carriers cannot afford to pay an additional $435 million in security-related fees sought by the Bush administration.

Members of a House Transportation and Infrastructure subcommittee signaled a willingness to extend war-risk insurance coverage. But they criticized executives for the way they have handled higher fuel costs and said Congress would not support another industry bailout.

Since the Sept. 11 attacks, the government has made available some $18 billion in cash, security-fee reimbursements and loan guarantees to the struggling industry, which has lost nearly $25 billion since the start of 2001.

"While Congress may assist the airlines with mandated security costs and war risk insurance, let me make it clear that Congress is not going to underwrite losing airline operations," Rep. John L. Mica, chairman of the aviation subcommittee, told the executives.

more... http://www.tribnet.com/24hour/business/story/1413860p-8714210c.html

[Loonman]

1. Whatever...

They failed due to their own incompetence.

[saigon68]

4. I hope they all go bankrupt

They should reduce their own salaries

[ResistTheCoup]

21. Please read my rant on the GD forum

"One airline pilot's rant about the demise of my industry"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1716537

[saigon68]

22. I did and I am sorry for the above

It's hard sometimes to remain objective--- there are however a lot of ass hole customer service people employed by certain airlines who seem to get their jollies out of abusing their passengers like cattle.

see post 13 on your rant page

[diamond14]

2. bush* is throwing OUR whole economy into a downward spiral..

it could collapse like Japan did in the early 1990's

and take us and the WHOLE WORLD with it....

[bluestateguy]

3. Whatever happened to all that government welfare they got in 2001?

Did they really piss it all away that fast?

[Karenina]

8. Sure did!

And I still have the INCREDIBLY EXPENSIVE advertising they sent to prove it. Would that I were not such a Luddite and able to quickly upload photos of the stuff I was snail-mailed after the American taxpayer bailed 'em out.
TRULY OUTRAGEOUS!!!

[struggle4progress]

10. Hey, it was only $18 billion. A billion doesn't go as far as it used to.

[TahitiNut]

18. Damned near impossible to throw a billion across the Potomac.

All the corporate lobbyists mug ya on the shore before you can wind up.

[struggle4progress]

19. That's a cheery image!

[Jacobin]

5. They need to re-regulate the motherfuckers

I am old enough to remember air travel in this country before deregulation. Decent food. Seats you could get in without a can opener. Reasonable schedules to lots of cities, even smallish cities. Air fares were not cheap, but were reasonable. Student fares for students that were cheap.

Well paid pilots and attendants that seemed happy with their work.

It fucking worked.

Then along comes Ronnie Raygun and decrees the airlines broke and in need of fixin'

So, he deregulates the sob's and they been fucked for the most part since then, with a few exceptions.

Oligopolies and monopolies need to be regulated. Its just that fucking simple.

[Not Me]

6. I could not agree more

They cried, just like the phone companies, and the gas and electric utilities for deregulation, and now they are all crying the blues.

[Parche]

7. actually

Deregulation happened in the Carter Administration
Reagan fired the Controllers

The huge airlines do not know how to manage their companies
they are in deep red ink

Not like Southwest, JetBlue, Alaska, Spirit,AirTran
they are all making money

[Puglover]

11. Actually that's bullshit...

Running an international airline is just a tad more complex then doing milkruns from Houston to Las Vegas.

Oh and Northwest hasnt taken a dime of the 18 billion.

Try looking at United and US Air

[Parche]

15. why do you say bs

I am in the Airline Industry
I think I know what is wrong with them
And NO they are not called International Airlines
They do have routes overseas
But they are mostly domestic
Houston to Las Vegas is not a milk run
A milk run is example like the old Hughes Airwest
PSC-EUG-LMT-SFO-SAN or PDX-OTH-CEC

[Puglover]

24. LOL...actually when we're working 747s 330s etc...

we consider most domestic flying "milk runs" compared to jfknrt nonstops...seahkg etc.etc....but aside from that...I say bullshit not just to you but the tone of this post. When someone says "they already blew through the 18 billion??" Answer..."yeah" They don't know what they're talking about.
Every airline post 9/11 was given an amount of cash to deal with the added security. They all took it. They then were offered guaranteed loans at very good rates however with VERY restrictive rules. Some took them...my airline NWA did not. In fact United as we speak is asking for 1.something BILLION dollars that may make them or break them. Our CEO Richard Anderson just went to DC to say to legislators that we are way too far away from 9/11 to be basing loans on that and now it seems to be a management issue rather then fallout from 9/11. So at least in NWAs case I take offense when I see posters bitching about how we are milking the situation.
An aside.....in BANKRUPTCY United employees in comparable positions to mine are making MORE money and their pension is higher....go figure.

[Parche]

34. NW

I have always thought that Delta, and Northwest had the best
chance of making money in these times
Northwest with their route structure and upgraded DC-9's
But with Delta's pilots, and their cost structure, they are losing
tons of money, it does not make sense.

[Hawkeye-X]

14. Don't forget Frontier

Although they reported loss for the first quarter, they were stable.

[Parche]

16. yes

You are right, they have done what a lot of airlines have
failed to do, battle with United on one of their home turf hubs.

United's TED and Delta Song are a joke
They are trying to compete with Jet Blue and Southwests
They are very different types of companies

One of the reason American and United are losing money is
they have certain flights in the day at the same time
SEA-DEN one at 6:00am and one at 6:02am
They do that in a lot of their city pairs.

Also they look at the "Market Share"
That is the thing of the past, they lose money doing that
They must concentrate on a few types of aircraft, drop unprofitable
city pairs, get the pilot work rules in line with the rest of
the industry, the pay is ok, but the work rules are way to generous

[reprobate]

12. Yeah, that's when flying was a pleasure.

And not the cattle drive it's turned into today.

Just brings back to mind the fact that NO industry deregulation has worked to help the consumer.

With the possible exception of the breakup of mother bell.

[Puglover]

9. You know I work for Northwest and

In 1990 I made 47,000, in 2003 I made 42k. I now pay 20 percent or my health insurance...it was fully funded then and I work 15 more days a year then I did 3 years ago. So don't tell me that we are so highly paid. Pilots work rules and salary needs to come down that the rest of us haven't made any inroads at all.

[ResistTheCoup]

20. So do you think if the pilots work 16 hour days that you'll make more?

I'm a pilot at a major carrier who's given up 40% of my pay and taken huge benefit and work rule hits. My salary as a Captain is only slightly more than it was as an F/O in 1992. I've also lost tens of thousands in my retirement stock.

We're all in this together. They want to have the employees fight amongst each other for a decent wage. Don't fall into that trap.
I've got a much longer rant on GD on this same subject.

Peace.

[Puglover]

25. Thanks for your reply and I WILL read your rant.

I realize we are all in this together. I have 25 years in with NWA and like it or not, this is probably where I will retire. When I refer to workrules...I refer to workrules that really don't benefit the pilots as much as cost the company money. I assume from your post that you work for USair and BELIEVE me I don't take abit of pleasure with what you guys have had to deal with. And everyone deserves a decent wage but when you see cash hemorraging from the bottom line I don't think it's a bad thing to want it changed. If you wanted specific examples Resist, I'd be happy to PM you.
Thanks j

[Puglover]

26. I did read your rant...

and I could not agree more! Very well written!

[Tiredofbullshit]

29. I'm a ex-airline employee

OK Captain,

Tell us what you make. It would be 5x what the other employees make which without their services, your job would not exist.

Pilots are overpaid, under-worked, and complainers. They want elevated status above all other employees(board seats, separate pay scales, etc.)

$125k a year for 20 hours of work not enough?

Tell us what you make.

[ResistTheCoup]

35. Your name should be just be plain old "bullshit"

You're as rude as you are clueless.

[TankLV]

38. His point is extremely valid & we noticed you didn't rebut his facts.

I have not sympathy for $100K & $200K "unions".

It's a mockery of the working man.

Just as absurd as doctors' unions.

Hell, might as well have millionaires' unions, too - same thing.

[reprobate]

13. I believe we are seeing the beginning of the end of the airline industry

No industry can continue to lose money forever. And with peak oil right around the next corner, we'll never see ticket prices so low anymore.

As fuel prices increase so will ticket prices, until there are few left outside the business community who can afford to fly.

We know that flying is probably the least efficient way to get from point A to point B. And we have done nothing to plan for the future to provide reasonable cost mass transport, local, regional and national. Our rail system is a century behind the rest of the world, and our interstate hiway system is falling apart. We, as a nation, are experiencing true devolution.

[MaineDem]

17. The industry was in trouble pre-9/11/01

The attacks actually gave them some breathing room after the government subsidies. Coincidence??? Who knows.

[dusty64]

23. Are they seeking

another taxpayer bailout. Wonder if they are still paying their execs obscene amount of $$$$$$$$$$$?

[sendero]

27. These whining gits make me puke..

... so now its "fuel costs". Well here's a memo for you - every airline is paying higher fuel costs. Some had the foresight to lock in contracts that ameliorate the problem somewhat, but you didn't. That's called BAD MANAGEMENT.

I'm so sick of the "capitalism for you, socialism for me" corporate America. You freaking airlines have ONE BIG PROBLEM. What is it? Overcapacity. Just like in the programming business after the dot.com bust. Know what happened to thousands and thousands of programmers? They will never work in their careers again. Know what is going to happen to lots of people in the airline business? They will never work in the airline business again.

I don't see the government doing anything to help the displaced programmers. In fact, they actively encourage moving what's left of the industry to India. Why should I care about what happens to your company? Grow up and move on. That's capitalism, and you guys seem to really like it when everything is going your way. Welcome to the real world.

[Cooley Hurd]

28. This is utter bullshit...

Like every other industry affected by the rising fuel prices, all they have to do is raise their rates. To say they can't pay for security fees is bullshit. Obviously, they're hoping for another bailout (or trying to make an argument for re-privatizing airport security)...

[impe]

30. Speaking of Which

I was on a flight on Wednesday and prior to push-off from the gate, a woman changed her child's diaper on the seat next to her and disposed of it in the barf bag. She did not take it to the bathroom nor would the flight attendant take it and put it in their trash. In addition to going over exit strategies pre-flight, I wish the airlines would also cover basic hygenic niceties while aloft.

I think airline mechanics are underpaid considering the work they do....

[saigon68]

31. NASTY DIAPER YIKES

Should mail it to Abu Ghraib, the Military Intelligence could then get the Iraqi POW to wear it on his head. </sarcasm>

[bleedingheart]

32. perhaps if the airline execs weren't getting those bloated bonus

checks and huge salaries...there would be less of a problem???

I am sorry but american business has been bastardized by the "get rich quick schemes"...and then they have the audacity to ask workers to take the paycuts and taxpayers to bail their sorry asses out...I am just sick of it.

[saigon68]

33. kick

[Retrograde]

36. on the other hand

In 1977 I paid ~$400 (in 1977$) for a round-trip flight from California to New York. Last month I paid ~$250 in today's dollars for a similar flight.

I fly a fair amount, and I've noticed the quality of the flights going downhill for a long time. On the other hand, I am paying less as a rule. Which would I rather have?


linda

[TankLV]

37. But god forbid they give ANY assistance to the passenger RR system.

That would be a subsidy, and we all know that no other business receives any public funds - free market and all!