Armed Man in Bulldozer Goes on Rampage (Granby, CO)

[PfcHammer]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040604/ap_on_fe_st/bulldozer_rampage_2

Armed Man in Bulldozer Goes on Rampage
11 minutes ago Add Strange News - AP to My Yahoo!

GRANBY, Colo. - A man barricaded inside a fortified bulldozer went on a rampage Friday, firing shots and knocking down buildings as he plowed through the streets, witnesses said.

It was not immediately known whether anyone had been injured.

"He's got gun turrets," witness Scott Schaffer told KUSA-TV. Another resident, Judy Craig, told the station she heard heavy damage was done to the town library and city hall.

State Patrol Maj. Jim Wolfinbarger said officers told him the driver had aimed his weapon at propane tanks. Gov. Bill Owens alerted the National Guard and was prepared to send troops to the town if requested, but local authorities had not asked for that help, Owens spokesman Dan Hopkins said.

[kalian]

1. Now THAT is an original way to go postal....

[lilymidnite]

2. My thought exactly

Evidently the driver was angry that the town council wouldn't let
him open a muffler shop, and this is the result.

[peterh]

9. Well…it’s not all that original….there was this guy in San Diego…

A number of years ago….


http://policejobs.com/img/police02.html

[goforit]

13. Yep, ...I remember this.

What people will do.

[aquart]

10. What do you mean, "original"??

Seen the movie "Tank"?

[Beaker]

26. Not in Colorado it ain't...

from the end of the article:

"... The scene was reminiscent of a 1998 rampage in Alma, another town in the Colorado Rockies. Authorities said Tom Leask shot a man to death, then used a town-owned front-end loader to heavily damage the town's post office, fire department, water department and town hall."

maybe it's something in the water??

[bluestateguy]

3. An air strike should take care of this clown

Clear out the downtown, order him to stop and then KA-BOOM!

[mrsmonica]

7. I wish

you'd take down that picture of Kerry hunting, I mean just because he's trying to be Bush lite doesn't mean we have to agree with him. Don't you think gun control and animal rights are an issue any more? Just because some stupid people said Gore lost because of his stance on gun control doesn't mean that we aren't right by wanting to limit guns to cops only. If it becomes unpopular to give a woman the right to choose would it be okay to stop being pro choice? I don't think so, we as democrats need to stand firm and not sway with the wind.

[JayS]

8. Don't worry. He is no friend of gun owners. n/t

n/t

[bluestateguy]

11. No

I will not take town a picture because somebody with 5 posts has hurt feelings over it. I was thinking of rotating it out in a few days, but since I give NOT AN INCH to the forces of political correctness I will keep it up for another month or two.

The evidence is pretty compelling that Gore lost West Virgina, Tennessee, Missouri and Ohio because of guns. That said, that's not the reason for my pro-gun stance. The last thing we should do is entrust John Ashcroft's "Justice Department" with a database of registered gun owners. I could just see him and his ilk going door to door to collect firearms from anybody with a last name that sounded a little too "ethnic". I'm pro-gun because I support the right of gays, women and non-whites to defend themselves from angry white men and violent right wingers. And I don't particularly trust government to protect them in the red states.

Hitler, Stallin and Mao all favored gun control. Take away a person's ability to defend themself then government and other thugs are free to oppress.

I'm pro-choice: a woman's right to have an abortion, an adult's right to do drugs in the privacy of his/her home, the right to own a gun and an adult's right to sell his or her body for sex. I am not a hunter, but I don't have time for animal rights. We are the party of the people and a clean environmen. If we do that, the animals can take care of themselves.

[ilovenicepeople]

23. I used to have 5 posts and I wasnt upset

But know that this is my 6th post Im totaly upset with the picture (you could of doctored it up with Bush running in the background.)HI Everybody :hi:

[WilliamPitt]

29. "the animals can take care of themselves"

Great post. Thanks.

[biftonnorton]

33. Yay bluestateguy

I don't have enough posts to be offended yet, so maybe I'll feel differently later, but for now, I gotta say I really like your comment about your reasons for supporting gun ownership. I used to live in a state that limited gun rights so much that we never gave a thought to going through the hassles to own a gun, while the criminal element didn't bother with the hassles and obtained theirs illegally, of course. By the time the cops respond to a situation where someone is committing a crime with a gun, the only thing left to do is to take statements; usually they can't be on the scene quickly enough to protect the victims. Only a couple years ago, when I moved to a more permissive state, I took advantage of the opportunity for citizens to have a choice in gun ownership and am enjoying it and getting into pistol sports as well as just target shooting. My old friends don't understand but I try to tell them about how good the power of choice feels-- they would try to get legislation against the choice of ownership. My reasons are very similar to yours for owning a gun, and now, wanting to teach handgun/handgun safety to women and other traditionally victimized groups. Thank you very much for your post!

[Zynx]

34. I agree with you 100% on gun control.

This is a deadly political issue for the Democrats and we are also wrong in our arguments for gun control.

[lil-petunia]

38. here, here

I gotta a gun license, but, my worry is Ashcroft's goons, not target shooting some defenseless bird in the sky.

Oh, oh. lots of lights and sirens and knocking at my door. . . . . .




:evilgrin:

[curse10]

42. no time for animal rights?

wow.

thank god some of us do. We are the "big tent" party. And that includes the most vulnerable and the ones that can do the least about their situation- the animals.

[nolabels]

47. I love the Animals

The Animals Biggest Hits:

"The House Of The Rising Sun" --1964-- charted at #1
"I'm Crying" -- 1964--charted at #19
"Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood" --1965--charted at #15
"Bring It On Home To Me" --1965--charted at #32
"We Gotta Get Out Of This Place" --1965--charted at #13
"It's My Life" --1965--charted at #23
"Inside-Looking Out" --1966--charted at #34
"Don't Bring Me Down"-- 1966--charted at # 12

as Eric Burdon & The Animals:

"See See Rider" --1966--charted at #10
"Help Me Girl" --1966--charted at #29
"When I Was Young" --1967--charted at #15
"San Franciscan Nights" --1967--charted at #9
"Monterey" --1967--charted at #15
"Sky Pilot" --1968--charted at #14
(snip)
http://www.classicbands.com/animals.html

"Sky Pilot" was way, dude, check out

http://www.lyricsdepot.com/eric-burdon-and-the-animals/sky-pilot.html
(snip)
He blesses the boys as they stand in line
The smell of gun grease
and the bayonets they shine
He's there to help them all that he can
To make them feel wanted he's a good holy man
Sky pilot,
Sky pilot,
How high can you fly?
You'll never, never, never reach the sky.

He smiles at the young soldiers
Tells them it's all right
He knows of their fear in the forthcoming fight
Soon there'll be blood and many will die
Mothers and fathers back home they will cry
Sky pilot,
Sky pilot,
How high can you fly?
You'll never, never, never reach the sky.

He mumbles a prayer and it ends with a smile
The order is given
They move down the line
But he'll stay behind and he'll meditate
But it won't stop the bleeding or ease the hate

As the young men move out into the battle zone
He feels good, with God you're never alone
He feels tired and he lays on his bed
Hopes the men will find courage
in the words that he said
Sky pilot,
Sky pilot,
How high can you fly?
You'll never, never, never reach the sky.

You're soldiers of God, you must understand
The fate of your country is in your young hands
May God give you strength
Do your job real well
If it all was worth it
Only time it will tell

In the morning they return
With tears in their eyes
The stench of death drifts up to the skies
A soldier so ill looks at the sky pilot
Remembers the words
"Thou shalt not kill."
Sky pilot,
Sky pilot,
How high can you fly?
You'll never, never, never reach the sky.
(snip)

[Geo55]

54. rewrite

extract Sky pilot....insert Bush Idiot

[nolabels]

59. We are living in an another type of world now, it seems

The writ and author is now used as propaganda instead reasoned discourse The left is getting close to having its own slam dunk on credibility but that is not what the owners of the propaganda machine would want to roll from there presses at this time.

They are in a race now, they are neck and neck, they are closing in on the finish line and it's hard to tell which one will get there first. It's a race in duality that will meet in the middle. Will they come to there own senses in time or will reality come in first, hard telling, but it looks to be a photo finish


&imgrefurl=http://www.madkane.com/wwwboard/messages/14632.html&h=579&w=431&sz=45&tbnid=aM9DXzkBhI0J:&tbnh=131&tbnw=98&start=7&prev=/images%3Fq%3DGeorge%2BTenet%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DG

Tenet the Sycophant
Ray McGovern, June 6, 2004

George Tenet sealed his fate long ago when he allowed himself to become "part of the team" in the Bush administration. Veteran CIA analyst Ray McGovern says that in working to provide the intelligence the president wanted, Tenet ignored the vital fact that intelligence reporting must be done "without fear or favor":

You could see what was in the works for CIA Director George Tenet by the way Bush administration officials promoted Plan of Attack by Bob Woodward. Woodward, playing the role of court historian, portrays the president as dissatisfied after a briefing on weapons of mass destruction in late 2002 by Tenet and his deputy. “This is the best we’ve got?” asks the president.

Tenet reportedly assured the president that it was “a slam-dunk case” that Iraq had such weapons, and national security adviser Condoleezza Rice, who was present, has confirmed Woodward’s account. This provides useful yarn for White House spinners attributing the debacle in Iraq to faulty intelligence and absolving the president. The slam-dunker is left hanging on the rim of the basket twisting in the wind, so to speak, until he falls of his own weight.

You would not know from Woodward’s book that the Oct. 1, 2002 National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) on Iraqi weapons of mass destruction—used with Congress to hype the threat—was written several months after the administration decided to make war on Iraq. That decision had little to do with such weapons. It had very much to do with the imperative seen by Bush’ s neoconservative advisers to use military force to gain dominant influence over oil-rich Iraq and to eliminate any possible threat to Israel’s security.
(snip)
http://www.guerrillanews.com/intelligence/doc4602.html

[DoNotRefill]

50. especially when the animal rights crowd abuses children....

to make their point.

[nolabels]

53. Just like religious keepers have no monopoly on morality

Animal rights people have are not the sole authorities on what the definition humane conditions are all about(who even said the all agree). Most people understand what the reflections mean in peoples care in the animals that surround them (children pick up the vibes quick)

http://www.upc-online.org/summer2002/etreview.html
Eternal Treblinka:
Our Treatment of Animals and the Holocaust
By Dr. Charles Patterson
Reviewed by Karen Davis, PhD

(snip)
Auschwitz begins whenever someone looks at a slaughterhouse and thinks: they're only animals. -Theodor Adorno

Parallels between our treatment of nonhuman animals and humans considered to be less than human is what this harrowing book is about. To view such parallels as an insult to humankind merely illustrates its thesis. In her Forward, attorney Lucy Rosen Kaplan says that Eternal Treblinka should be read by all who are not afraid to understand that the suffering that humans have so relentlessly inflicted on animals over the course of our species' history is one and the same with the suffering we so often inflict on each other. Eternal Treblinka should also be read by those who shy away from this thesis.

One of the values of Eternal Treblinka is that it places the Nazi Holocaust within a larger psychological and historical context. It isn't only modern capitalist society that commits the atrocities it depicts, although our society could hardly be topped. As Animal Liberation Front founder, Ron Lee, says in the book, "We have been at war with the other creatures of this earth ever since the first human hunter set forth with spear into the primeval forest. . . . Speciesism is more deeply entrenched within us even than sexism, and that is deep enough."

Treblinka was a Nazi death camp in Poland that began operating in 1942. The title, Eternal Treblinka, is taken from the meditations of Herman Gombiner, the main character in the Nobel Prizewinning author Isaac Bashevis Singer's story, "The Letter Writer." Herman, who lost his entire family to the Nazis, is thinking about a mouse he befriended whose death he believes he caused, and his sadness leads to a larger thought: "What do they know-all these scholars, all these philosophers, all the leaders of the world-about such as you? They have convinced themselves that man, the worst transgressor of all the species, is the crown of creation. All other creatures were created merely to provide him with food, pelts, to be tormented, exterminated. In relation to them, all people are Nazis; for the animals it is an eternal Treblinka."

Eternal Treblinka presents theories from various thinkers including Freud, Montaigne, Carl Sagan, Judy Chicago, and Barbara Ehrenreich on the human penchant for war, violence, and the subjugation of other forms of existence. It looks at traditional methods of subduing animals in pastoral cultures, noting that "astration continues to be the centerpiece of animal husbandry." And like the infamous 20th-century psychologist Harry Harlow, who devised experiments to induce terror in young monkeys and pathologic aggression in their mothers, herders around the world separate mother cows from their young by cruel and painful means: "The Nuer tie a ring with thorns around the calf's muzzle, which pricks the mother's udder. . . . Lapps smear excrement on the udders of reindeer does in order to keep their fawns from sucking them." The Tuareg "pierce the nasal septum of the calves with a forked stick that makes sucking painful." They "cut the noses of camel and cattle calves to keep them from sucking their mothers."
(snip)

[DoNotRefill]

55. To us, it's the harvest. To the carrots, it is the Holocaust.

Life feeds on Life.

And I've never, EVER seen an animal rights activist who exists only by eating inorganic material.

[nolabels]

56. I once had relatives that were pond scum also

The one cell kingdom is king over us all as far as that goes. With out it we would not be here today. Maybe we can call a war on them too (BRING EM ON! :crazy:)

http://www.jsonline.com/news/state/dec01/6337.asp

One-cell organism linked to humans
Common gene reported, aiding evolution theory
By JOHN FAUBER
of the Journal Sentinel staff
Last Updated: Dec. 18, 2001

A single-cell organism that swam in the Earth's primordial soup hundreds of millions of years ago is an evolutionary sibling of humans and all other animals, according to research published Tuesday by University of Wisconsin-Madison scientists.

While the finding advances the knowledge of human evolution, the idea that people and pond scum are related is bound to draw criticism from creationists and other religious groups that abhor the thought of such genetic connections between people and other species.

At the same time, the paper for the first time provides scientific evidence of a theory that first sprung up 130 years ago, that certain single-cell organisms known as choanoflagellates are linked to animals.

"(The author) provides the most compelling modern molecular evidence to support this 100-year-old classic idea," said Michael Levine, a professor of genetics and development at the University of California at Berkeley. "It is wonderful stuff."
(snip)

[DoNotRefill]

63. So, when does Pond Scum get the vote?

eom

[nolabels]

66. "Get Rid of the Pond Scum. Vote the Bastards Out!"

(let me relay it to you)

Suddenly Senior's Letter of the Month - APRIL 2004

"Get Rid of the Pond Scum. Vote the Bastards Out!"

There are days when I just get so disgusted and depressed with our representation in Washington.

In my home state of Oregon, I know at least three of the Reps are spineless, yellow, selfish cowards. They think a constituent is someone who works with a sewing machine. Yet they remain in office, bouyed up by the special interest money they are so eager to grab, and then have the audacity to tell the people they took it so they could do wonderful things for the people they represent.

Wake up American Voters........Vote the bastards out. Get rid of the pond scum. DO NOT BE TAKEN IN BY ELECTION YEAR VAPOR PROMISES.

Thankfully, each and every poll taken since the passage of the Medicare "Enhancement" bill has shown overwhelmingly that America thinks it stinks, that it was a graft oriented passage.

Everything is crammed with pork. See this analysis by Taxpayers for Common Sense: http://www.taxpayer.net/budget/FY04OmnibusEarmarks.pdf Taxpayers for Common Sense also has other great resources, at: http://www.taxpayer.net/

Stop the Madness....vote common sense. Activate yourself and deactivate the leeches.
(snip)


Post / Hyoung Chang
An emergency medical services officer walks past a shattered corner of Granby’s town hall, one of the buildings damaged by a mechanic who took a bulldozer on a rampage through the small Grand County town Friday. “He has been targeting all the people he was mad at,” said one Granby resident.

'Dozer rampage driver found dead

Gunfire spatters evacuated mountain town

By Kieran Nicholson, Alicia Caldwell and Steve Lipsher
Denver Post Staff Writers

Granby, 11:30 a.m. - A muffler shop owner who plowed his makeshift armored bulldozer into several buildings over a dispute with city officials was found dead in the machine this morning after a SWAT team gained access with explosives, authorities said.

Police said he died from what authorities believe was a self-inflicted gunshot wound. They found several guns inside, and a closed circuit TV so he could see outside the bulldozer. This morning authorities are taking his body out of the bulldozer with a crane because he may have booby trapped himself.
(snip)
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~53~2193848,00.html

[curse10]

67. oh please

:eyes:

and can you quit finding my posts and responding with your anti-PETA retorts?

[greendeerslayer]

15. Speak For Yourself!

"We" don't want to "limit guns to cops only," you do. That is really assinine. I guess you trust the cops a helluva lot more than
I do. I have repeatedly stated here on DU the gun issue cost Gore big in 2000. Did it cost him the election? Quite possibly, am I "stupid" for stating this? I don't think so. If past posting on DU is an indication, a good half of the posters here (myself included) are solidly Pro-gun. WE are not stupid, we want a democrat in the White House in 2005, and the gun issue gets in the way. For the record - I am pro-gun, pro-green, and will be voting for Kerry in Nov.

[Beaker]

30. gimme a break here...

i'm not a gun fanatic, or a hunter, but i AM a Democrat-
and i don't see anything wrong with people exercising their constitutional right to own and use their firearms within the limits of the law- and NO, i don't want to see those laws changed to limit guns to cops only- that would be just plain goofy.

and as for "animal rights"....:eyes:

[Bridget Burke]

39. Mrs. Monica, you're lying.

You state: "Just because some stupid people said Gore lost because of his stance on gun control doesn't mean that we aren't right by wanting to limit guns to cops only."

Where in any Democratic platform does it say that?

[johnfunk]

4. C'mon, Rummy -- where are the Cruise Missiles?

Fer Crikey sakes, he's a TAIRIST!

[Just Me]

5. Uh, huh,...and while our society is suffering, hundreds of billions,...

,...are being spent to further enrich the rich.

When will the right-wing freaks get that?

If we fail to take care of our own,...we may as well just give up all that stuff about "democracy" and "equality" and "liberty" and "happiness",...turn to the "laws of the jungle",...and go for the dang juggler.

The death of civility.

[bluestateguy]

6. If this were an Arab or Muslim they would have already incinerated him

I guess they want to "negotiate" with the nice angry white man.

[yorgatron]

12. this is EXACTLY what the national gaurd is needed for

they must have an old M-60 that could put a 105mm through that thing before he kills a bunch of people.

[FeebMaster]

14. If RPG's weren't so hard to come by in CO

the owner of what looks to be the hardware store that guy is headed toward in that picture could take care of the problem.

[boobooday]

16. Is that covered in the 2nd amendment?

The right to bear gun-turreted bulldozers?



http://www.wgoeshome.com

[struggle4progress]

24. I want my own nukes! Dubya has some. Why can't I have some too?

[prolesunited]

17. My question is

where did he come up with a a fortified bulldozer?

[JayS]

18. Haliburton maybe? :) n/t

n/t

[dolo amber]

19. That was my first question...

:wtf:

Why does a *fortified bulldozer* exist in the first place? :shrug: :silly:

[Eye and Monkey]

20. Perhaps he's a fan of Monster Garage.

And he had a welding torch, some plate steel, and a bit too much time to stew about things.

[peterh]

21. too funny....

[Beaker]

27. why not call and ask him?

http://rockymountainnews.com/drmn/state/article/0,1299,DRMN_21_2939053,00.html

...A call to his Grand Lake home Friday afternoon was met by the recording of a man's voice, stating, "I'm sorry, I'm gone. I should be back on the fourth or fifth of June."

http://www.switchboard.com/bin/cginbr.dll?ID=75996683&ABS=0&FUNC=MORE&TYPE=1008&MEM=1&L=heemeyer&S=CO&QV=02A669668586C94000303203O01A666668586C94002303203O03A72C3D9D86C940BECF3203

[Eye and Monkey]

46. I'm guessing that he'll a bit indisposed for awhile.

[sendero]

52. Since he wanted to open a muffler shop...

... you can bet he knows how to use an acetyline torch :)

[DoNotRefill]

48. he built it...

from what I've heard, he put 1/2 inch plate steel around it, with another 1/2 inch layer inside, and the middle filled with concrete.

What nobody has pointed out so far (that I've seen) is thatthe police opened fire on this thing, with no effect, and kept firing at it, just to feel better about their personal inadequacies. What about ricochets? Sounds like the cops posed more of a danger to the community than the guy with the bulldozer....

[BiggJawn]

22. Auditioning for a gig with the IDF...

Out in Gaza.

[gort]

25. I can't wait to read the next-door neighbor interviews

"He seemed like a nice guy, kept to himself mostly. He was always polite to my wife and waved to us when he drove by with all those welding supplies in the back of his truck."

"Pretty quiet, too except for those times when he would lock himself in the garage and all we would hear was hammering and welding noises. Never imagined that he was making himself a DeathDozer."

[Beaker]

28. "He's a teddy-bear..."

..."He's a teddy bear," Brown said. "He's a real lovable, soft, sweet guy. I didn't think he would hurt them intentionally — but that he would go after their businesses and hurt him financially, the way he thinks they hurt him."

http://rockymountainnews.com/drmn/state/article/0,1299,DRMN_21_2939053,00.html

[JM]

31. "If I had a Bulldozer"

(Lyrics/Music -- Heywood Banks)

In this day and age
In this big ol' world
Where the little guy doesn't
have a chance
There's only one thing I can think of
that would make a difference

If I had a bulldozer
The world would be so very fine
I would never have to move it over
Never have to stand in line.

If I had a bulldozer
There'd be no lack of parking places
I'd just look for that brand new Corvette
The one that's taking up two spaces.

If I had a diesel rig
With a big ol' blade
Treads just like a tank
I would have it made
Courtesy would reign
Arguments would cease!
Cause Everyone Would Know!
I'D SQUASH 'EM LIKE A CHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESE!

Later,
JM

[Don_G]

32. He Was Found Dead In The Cab

No details yet, but the Cat quit running yesterday afternoon and the police discovered him dead in the cab shortly before dawn this morning.

[Judi Lynn]

35. Here's an article on it from this morning

Man Who Plowed Armored Bulldozer Into Seven Buildings In Colorado Is Dead, Authorities Say



GRANBY, CO (AP) -- A muffler shop owner who plowed his makeshift armored bulldozer into several buildings over a dispute with city officials was found dead in the machine after a SWAT team gained access with explosives early Saturday, authorities said.

A statement from Grand County Undersheriff Glen Trainor early Saturday said the driver was found around 2 a.m. The statement did not give a cause.

The driver was identified by the town manager as muffler shop owner Marvin Heemeyer. Grand County Emergency Management Director Jim Holahan said Heemeyer was armed with a .50-caliber weapon but
appeared to be deliberately avoiding injuring anyone during the rampage, which began Friday at about 3 p.m. No other injuries were reported.
(snip/...)

Updated: 6/5/2004 7:50:37 AM


http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/usworld/news-article.aspx?storyid=19545

[booksenkatz]

36. What's this BS about him

"apparently going out of his way not to kill anyone?" At least according to the MSNBC article. How the hell did he know who was on the other side of a single one of the walls he knocked over? Why is MSNBC trying to paint this disturbed individual as compassionate? Look at the pics, for God's sake. Is this destruction the work of a compassionate individual? Oh, wait, maybe he's a compassionate conservative... never mind.

[DoNotRefill]

49. Ummm....when there's a rampaging bulldozer outside your building...

revving it's motor, that's generally when SANE people would "beat feet" so that they don't get run over.

If this guy wanted to kill people, he could have. Hell, running over a carfull of gawkers would have done it, without there being a gun involved.

[saigon68]

37. Don't they bulldoze buildings in the middle east ?

This guy should have hired out to Halliburton.

[Mika]

40. He qualifies for this year's Sharon Peace Prize

n/t

[Judi Lynn]

44. He could have had a whole new career elsewhere, Mika!

Could have been a real celebrity.

[Catt03]

41. I suggest Humvee and Rumsfield

get out there quick and get the scoop on how this machine was built.

A man from Granby can build protective armor but they can't?

[curse10]

43. I've been to Granby

This is so sad. This man should have gotten help before going on this rampage and ultimately killing himself.

It's a shame that such a cute little mountain town now has this story as it's claim to fame.

[pinniped]

45. He was "allegedly" using a .50-cal weapon to fire at propane tanks.

If true, there goes that "never been used in a crime" defense.

[democrat in Tallahassee]

51. one less bush voter n/t

[lebkuchen]

57. It's a pity this man was killed

He took his secret to the grave as to how he built this contraption. The DoD could have made hundreds of copies to replace the humvee in Iraq.

[DoNotRefill]

58. Latest Update:

Apparently the cops got a hold of some .50 rifles to try and take this guy out. They shot at him with the .50 BMGs (a LOT, from what I've heard) and it didn't phase him or the cat. So much for the .50 being able to "take out a tank"...if it can't defeat homemade armor on a tractor, it mustn't be as lethal as the anti-gunners would have you believe...

[denverbill]

61. Tanks aren't as heavily armored.

This guy mounted steel plates 1/4 to 1/2 inch thick, then filled in between them with a foot of concrete.

"The virtual tank had cameras mounted outside and three video monitors mounted inside so Heemeyer could see where he was going. It had a .50-caliber gun on the front and two smaller-caliber semi-automatic weapons, one on each side, protruding through portals. It was equipped with an air conditioner, and its hydraulics were protected by armor. Its cab was reinforced with quarter- to half-inch metal plates, with a foot of concrete between them. Inside, there were a gas mask and two handguns, said Granby Mayor Edward Wang."

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E23827%257E2195600,00.html

[DoNotRefill]

62. Yer joking, right?

comparing mild plate steel and concrete with real hardened armor, right?

A WWII tank would be considerably tougher than this tractor, and a .50 BMG (which, after all, originated in WWI) was ineffective against armor back then. The .50 BMG is good (if you hit them enough) against "soft" targets like trucks and airplanes (which break easily). It's NEVER been good against tanks.

Pit the "ersatz" armor on this cat against a real tank, and it wouldn't even be close. The tank armor would win hands-down, foot of concrete or no.

[denverbill]

64. Yeah, I was joking to a certain extent.

I know a .50 wouldn't harm any modern tank. OTOH, a foot of steel encased concrete is practically a moving pillbox. It's a helluva lot better armored than a Bradley, or an armored Humvee. It would've definitely taken something fairly potent to take it out.

I'm far from an expert on armor, but I gotta think that it would compare pretty favorably to most of the early tanks of WWII anyway.

[DoNotRefill]

65. Trust me, it wouldn't.

The steel used in armor is formed far differently than steel used for other purposes. It's far more durable than sheet steel even of a similar thickness.

And while laminate armor has certain advantages (namely in ease of production and the fact that you can just keep adding it on as long as the chassis can stand it), a laminate is almost always weaker than an equal thickness of homogeneous steel.

People today "pooh-pooh" WWII armor. I've been inside a real, live King Tiger tank, along with a bunch of other tanks from the era. A .50 might have some minor effect on, say, a Japanese or Italian tank from WWII (that's not a racist thing, the Japanese and Italians had a vastly different design philosophy in their armor) but for, say, a medium or heavy tank made by the US, Russia, Germany, or England, a .50 would just scratch the paint. A lucky shot might damage the optics. And a foot of concrete, even sandwiched between steel, wouldn't offer much protection at all against any kind of "serious" weapon. In fact, I once cut a hole through an 8 inch thick concrete and rebar-reinforced cinderblock wall (standard cinderblock construction, with rebar threaded through the holes, and the holes then filled with concrete) with a regular 8mm mauser.

[AngryAmish]

60. Killdozer!