AP Poll: Most Rate Reagan Over Clinton

[AlGore-08.com]

(Before I get flamed, the reason I posted this is because I think that these poll results, along with the poll stating 69% beleive that Saddam supported al-Queada before 9/11, are excellent examples of how the mainstream media's parroting of GOP spin points pollutes the national discourse.)

http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-presidents-ap-poll,0,3212872.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines

By WILL LESTER
Associated Press Writer

June 21, 2004, 3:48 PM EDT

(snip)

Seven in 10 say history will judge Reagan superior, based on the survey conducted one week after the Republican icon's state funeral and nonstop media coverage focused not only on the ceremonies marking his death at age 93 but a lifetime of achievements from Hollywood to the White House.

(snip)

Some 83 percent of those questioned said they have a favorable view of Reagan as a person, according to the poll conducted for the AP by Ipsos-Public Affairs. The former president completed his two terms in office in 1988.

A majority of 53 percent said they have an unfavorable view of Clinton while 41 percent rated him favorably. In January, people were about evenly divided in their view of Clinton as a person.

Although stocks soared and the deficit fell during Clinton's tenure, many Americans associate the Democrat with the marital infidelity that nearly toppled his presidency, impeachment by the House and the Senate vote that saved him. Women were slightly more likely than men to have an unfavorable view.

(snip)

Asked whether Reagan or the current president, George W. Bush, will be remembered as a better president, 76 percent said Reagan and 12 percent said Bush. Three-fourths of Republicans said Reagan, about the same margin as for Democrats and independents.

People were about evenly divided on whether Clinton or Bush will be remembered as the better president.

[Jacobin]

1. Why the Fascists spend so much money on the media

You can make Reagan who was at best a mediocre president more popular than Clinton, who was one of the most effective presidents of the last century.

Oh, and you can also make Jennifer Lopez popular.

[radwriter0555]

37. Good thing Clinton isn't running for office!

**whew** THAT'S a relief!

[On the Road]

2. Sure, They Take the Poll Right After the Week-Long Lovefest

I have no problem believing the results -- they would just be a lot different if the poll were taken at a different time.

[Howardx]

5. exactly!

n/t

[0rganism]

3. Hahahahaha! I Love this shit...

> based on the survey conducted one week after the
> Republican icon's state funeral and nonstop media coverage

Gee, ya think? Propaganda tends to have that effect. Even the guy writing the article can't help but throw in that remark. :crazy:

How about we wait until all his presidential papers are released, and take the poll then? Might even be a good idea to hold off on naming stuff after him and putting his head on the currency...

[Tempest]

4. These polls are meaningless

Of course people will judge Ronnie highly so soon after they planted his traitorous ass in the ground and with the media lovefest.

Let's see what people think a year or two from now.

[Jay Bradfield]

6. Reagan was simply more effective than Clinton

Face it folks, Reagan is popular because he believed in something, and fought for it.

Clinton, what was it that he believed in again? Triangulation? OR whatever Dick Morris told him to believe that week.

Hate to break it to you Dems but until the Democratic part has real progressive visionaries as leaders recent Dem presidents are going to be less popular than Reagan.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hightime]

14. The man put a lot of time and energy into his blog site for a disrupter.

Perhaps you should give him the credit of having a different opinion than yours before trying to tombstone him. Try reading his site rather than forming an opinion from just one post and the fact he has a low post count. The post count elitism around here is stifling.

[DenverDem]

15. What blog site?

How do you know?

[Catherine Vincent]

25. He's talking about the poster above, Jay Bradfield has a blog.

BFD!

[DenverDem]

33. I know, but there is no link, so how does he know about it

unless he's a fellow traveler.

Disrupting scum.

[hightime]

42. Unless I did my homework and looked at his profile.

I hope your disparaging remarks were not directed at me. You would be jumping to an ignorant conclusion...and I know you wouldn't do that.

[hightime]

41. http://jaybradfield.blogspot.com/

I was looking at his profile and found the link. I read some of his posts before passing judgment on his opinion. He now has a post on his site about being banned from here.

The deleted message after his original post mentioned "tombstoning" him. I simply wanted to figure out where his opinion was coming from so I followed the info supplied in his profile.

[LiviaOlivia]

18. Oh brother..

Do you have a blog link? No? Yes? No?

As stated previously, this poll just proves how stupid people are.

Reagan was an actor who read the lines he was given.

[lancdem]

12. Give me a friggin' break

This poll was done right after Reagan's funeral. And spare me the RW talking point about Clinton not believing in anything. That's bullshit.

BTW, I'm not saying Clinton will ever be as popular as Reagan. I'm just trying to point out Clinton fought for a lot of things that he cared about, just like Reagan.

[Jay Bradfield]

30. No comparison to Reagan

Clinton not believing anything is not just a RW talking point. There is a lot of truth there.

Reagan, despite not always being Mr. Conservative, was and is a hero to the Right.

Can the same thing be said about Clinton?

Since when have balanced budgets, a corporate dominated economy, and weakend unions been rallying cries of the Left.

I am just trying to be realistic here.

Reagan effected a pretty big ideological shift. A shift that I despise, but nonetheless give credit where it is due. Of course, the real credit goes to the radical conservative movement that put Reagan in power.

[oldcoot]

16. Popular does not equal good

Hitler also believed in something. He was even popular at one time. Clearly, popularity and "believing in something" does not make one a good leader.

Obviously, Reagan was nowhere near as bad as Hitler. However, that does not change the fact that his many of his policies were disastrous for this nation and other nations. For example, let us not forget Reagan's willingness to support brutal dictators including Saddam Hussein.

[Jay Bradfield]

31. nobody ever said that it did

What popular does equal is being effective in achieving one's policy goals. We are still dealing with the economic and social consequences of the so-called Reagan years.

Face it, Reagan had an impact. As for Clinton he was just a brief relief from radical conservative rule, he did not fundamentally challenge these guys.

[oldcoot]

36. You are correct

We are still dealing with the social and economic consequences of the Reagan years. Unfortunately, we are also suffering from the consequences of his foreign policy.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[goclark]

24. HA! Reagan could not hold a candle to Clinton

I am from California so I know what Reagan did to the Mental hospitals, the environment, the poor and the public schools.

Of course those things don't count to Repubs because they only care about the Rich Guy and the poor and middle class they don't care about at all. Most of the White middle class and poor are too stupid to know that Reagan could care less about them.

HA!

[Jay Bradfield]

32. don't call people you don't know stupid

A lot of the white middle class and poor are busting their asses to make ends meet. People have got to start realizing the suggestive almost hypnotic power of radical conservative marketing. We have got to stop this blame the American people (esp. whites) first attitude and start thinking about why is it that the Democratic party has suffered such humiliating defeats at the hands of right-wing goons.

Without critically examining the Democratic party we can never beat these people.

[Piperay]

38. "We"????

Where do you get this "we" crap when in your earlier post you gave yourself away with this "you Dems"??? If you are going to try to pass yourself off as belonging here you need to get better at it, FOOL! :silly:

[goclark]

43. You're Not My Mother

and you don't tell me what to do and what to think!

[leesa]

44. Ah yes...visions of mass murder! How many hundreds of

thousands of deaths did this vile creature cause? Kill. Kill. Kill. The only vision of the greedy Republicans.

[llmart]

7. It's an AP poll and Newsday article.....

Enough said.

[boobooday]

8. The Power of Propaganda

May destroy our country. We have a big problem when everyone gets a warm glow from a slogan that celebrates the "power" of the number one sin on the list of the seven deadlies.



http://www.wgoeshome.com

[AP]

10. So, which day of the 24-7 Funeralmania coverage was this poll taken?

Will they do a poll again on the day that all the media is reporting that My Life has set records for first day non-fiction sales?

[AlGore-08.com]

13. And if they do, it won't change the outcome much

Because the talking heads are focusing on Clinton's sex life, his marriage, and trashing the book - - preceded by twelve years of predominantly negative coverage of Clinton. You can't begin to believe that's the same as one solid week of "Ronald Reagan was a great man" - - preceded by twenty years of overwhelmingly positive coverage of Reagan.

It's gonna take one hell of a lot more than a single book, article, poll or radio station to overcome the media bias in this country.

[AP]

19. The media is so afraid of Clinton talking directly to the public, un-

mediated by them.

If people read the book, they'll love Clinton.

He always does just fine when he's able to communicate directly with the public. Even when the media tried to jump in between and characterize what Clinton was saying as something it wasn't.

[lancdem]

22. Hence all the interviews

BTW, given the fact that Clinton called his behavior morally reprehensible, I'm not surprised Americans would view it that way. Remember, his favorable ratings have to do with him as a person, not a president.

[AlGore-08.com]

29. "If people read Clinton's book, they will love him"

"If Clinton talks directly to people, he will win all of them over." I am really amazed at how many times I see variations on this posted at DU. It's just not true. It never was true and it never will be true. And it flies in the face of history to say it.

If it was true, Kenneth Starr never would have investigated Clinton, let alone publicished all of the lurid details of Clinton's extra-marital affair. If it was true, the House managers never would have tried to impeach Clinton. If it was true, the impeachment vote in the Senate would have been 0-100 against. If it was true, the media never would have ginned up Whitewater, Travelgate, the Lincoln Bedroom, etc., etc., etc. and all the rest of the bogus Clinton scandals. Rush Limbaugh and all of Richard Mellon Scaife's elves would have collectively written a book called "Why Bill Clinton is the greatest, most moral President ever."

If Clinton just would have talked directly to these guys, all of the unconstitutional power grabs by the GOP never would have happened. Too bad Clinton didn't think about just talking directly to those jerks at the time, huh? Could have saved us all 12 years of unconstitutional power grabs by the GOP. Oh well - - coulda, shoulda, woulda.

The reality of Bill Clinton is that he is popular with millions of people - - but he's not universally loved. He is also absolutely loathed by millions, and personally disliked by millions. Whether that should be the case is not the point. The point is that pretending that Clinton has some kind of superhuman charisma does a real disservice to his legacy and to every candidate that still has to fight the right wing media to get their message out to voters. It's similar to claiming that Dalton Trumbo had some kind of superhuman charisma that allowed him to work as a screenwriter up until his death - - and totally ignore the Hollywood blacklist, and all the years that Trumbo had to use fronts to sell his screenplays.

[lancdem]

11. Even the political scientist points out

that time has made people forget Iran-Contra, etc. The same will happen with Clinton. Another thing to consider is this poll was not only done immediately after Reagan's funeral, but when the stories in the press about Clinton's book involved his revelations about his infidelity with Monica.

This quote cracked me up: Republican Shannon Miller, of Dover, Ohio, said Bush would be more kindly remembered because "he hasn't had as many scandals."

Wait till the Plamegate indictments hit, honey.

[genius]

20. I guess it proves Americans are the stupidest people on Earth

[daleo]

21. This isn't that big a lead, considering it was taken

At the height of the Reagasm. I think, as folk memory takes over from media manipulation (as it does as time passes), Clinton will come to be remembered very favorably - many people will remember the administration as a time of peace and prosperity. The Monica Lewinskyasm will be seen as a quaint obsession of the 1990's. Folk memories of Reagan's administration may grow darker, as the media eventually quits beating the drums, and more people remember hard times, layoffs, and recession.

[AndyTiedye]

23. I don't know whether to...

> AP Poll: Most Rate Reagan Over Clinton
:grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr:

>(Before I get flamed, the reason I posted this is because I think that these poll results,
>along with the poll stating 69% beleive that Saddam supported al-Queada before 9/11,
>are excellent examples of how the mainstream media's parroting of GOP spin points
>pollutes the national discourse.)

Oh, in that case,
:cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:
:cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:

[napi21]

26. Time heals a lot! Few if any of us will be around to read what

history really says about the Presidents we remember in our lifetime. I'm always amaized when I occasionally hear an in-depth account of Lincoln, or Washington, etc. on Booknotes on C-Span or the History chanel. Most of the bad stuff is forgotten after the next few generations, and the accomplishements remain. The only bad thing that will remain for Clinton is the Impeachment because it's so unique.

You also should remember that the one thing people seem to remember about Hoover is that he had a net job loss. The thing that makes us remember THAT is his comparisson to the Shrub!

[ixion]

27. which just goes to show that most people are idiots

Ray-gun's pResidency was a disaster on so many levels, and yet people still think the guy was okay. I just don't get it.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

28. Ronald Reagan, a Beastiality Experiment gone arway....

is "more popular" than the Big Dog becuase our "librul" media presents Reagan in such positive light.

[Cocoa]

34. could they come up with a more meaningless question?

could they?

[Realityhack]

35. Its a perfect question.

IF you are the GOP.

This isn't a serious random survey of opinion. Its a well disguized push poll. Have a week long 'remebrence' then compair to someone being bashed all week... oh and dont forget to word the question so it deals NOT with how you feel but with how "history" will judge them so you will recall all the historic rablings about Ragan all week and be far less likely to remember anything about the other guy... what was his name again? Hell with that wording I would have to say Ragan. Chances are history as taught in America will judge him better. Not real history of course but does it matter?

RH

[Piperay]

39. Most of the responders to this poll

must to be young to actually remember Ronzo because I am old enough to have lived through those horrible years and his 'leadership' was a mess. I can remember all the homelessness and unemployed under Raygun and how when Clinton was President there was virtually no unemployed.

[L.A.dweller]

40. Now he will be on the $10 bill, ya'll !