Florida paper says "Vilsack out/Graham in"

[Rowdyboy]

http://www.qctimes.com/internal.php?story_id=1030037&t=Nation+%2F+World&c=26,1030037

Imagine the scene. Graham is nominated in late July. One month later, the 'thugs meet and renominate Bush on 9/2/04. The following week, the new Democratic vp nominee has a highly critical book published which decimates Republican policy for the last 4 years... All attention is deflected from Bush/Guilia... er... Bush/Cheney and Kerry/Graham take center stage again. The focus: Bush's pathetic record on terrorism/intelligence/foreign affairs is highlighted.

Choosing Graham would be a helluva strong and smart move by John Forbes Kerry.

[jobycom]

1. I'm not sure it's smart enough to warrant using his middle name...

But he could do worse. Graham would do well in Florida, and he has a tale to tell.

I think Kerry could do better, though. But we'll see. He's got smarter people than me working out all the angles right now.

[Rowdyboy]

2. Sorry, Job...I was just

trying it on for size. You know, letting it roll around my toungue to see how it felt. You see, I'm finally believing that it really may be for real. At long last, I'm starting to think these fools have screwed up so badly, America may actually vote them out.

That doesn't happen very often, and I haven't let myself have hope until recently. But, damn, these BFEE are really fools and they're beginning to get what they deserve.

John Forbes Kerry. JFK. It has a certain ring.

[FlemingsGhost]

3. >>cringe<<

"John Forbes Kerry. JFK. It has a certain ring. "

I can't begin to tell you how uncomfortable I am when someone refers to John Kerry as "JFK." John Kerry may be a Catholic Democrat from Massachusetts, but he is certainly no Jack Kennedy.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

4. Was Jack Kennedy Jack Kennedy...

Back when he was simply Jack Kennedy? History and an early, tragic, criminal death can change things like that.

We don't yet know what occasions Kerry can yet rise to. We do know what his opposition can descend to, however.

[hedda_foil]

5. Yes. He was.

I first saw Jack Kennedy when Adlai Stevenson threw the Veep nomination to the convention floor in 1956. Jack spoke to the convention and became an instant national force right then and there.

JFK was always JFK and there will only ever be one of him. Let Kerry stand on his own. Perhaps someday there will only ever be one of him but the use of initials to mimic Kennedy is insulting to both of them (whether Kerry is aware of that or not). They are very, very different men.

[JI7]

7. Kerry doesn't use them

but to be fair those ARE his birth initials given to him before kennedy became president. the only times kerry used them to try to be like the president was when he was in high school and college in his teens because he was really happy or proud of having the same initials as the President who he considered his hero. but he was very young then.

but he doesn't use them anymore and said himself out of respect for the late president he wont do it. and he is referred to as JK or John Kerry by his supporters.

[Bucky]

10. And isn't "JFK" preferable to his other nickname, "The Mummy Who Walks"?

[jobycom]

11. You're right, Kennedy was more centrist than Kerry when he ran in 60

Like Kerry, Kennedy was a flaming liberal, and like Kerry, Kennedy played to the middle to get elected. He chose a conservative running mate (who turned out less conservative than thought), he supported escalation of the Viet Nam situation (not quite a conflict yet), and he tried to appease the military government. He was lukewarm on civil rights issues, opposing some of the marches and trying to dissuade activists. Shortly before his death he was telling some people he wanted out of Viet Nam while telling others he wanted to send more troops.

Kennedy was a true liberal at heart, no doubt, but people forget he had to sell himself, and that he went to the center, even the right, to do it. Kerry is no different, neither was Clinton or Carter. People remember Kennedy through filters. He would have been no more popular on DU than Kerry is when he was campaigning.

I'm not Kennedy bashing. Great guy. I worked for a man who knew him (who was almost offered the VP spot under him, in fact, according to history books, though his take is a little different.) He believed Kennedy was the smartest man he'd ever known, and hated the way the media focused only his assassination. He believed Kennedy was one of the great visionaries of this nation, and he was. But he also agreed that Kennedy campaigned to the center.

[jobycom]

12. LOL You know I love you, RB. Just teasing you. nt.

[goclark]

6. A question on Graham

I really respect Graham a lot. Think Edwards or Clark would be a better VP but I could live with Graham too.
But, I have a question. In Fah. 9 11 there is the scene with the Black Caucus members looking for ONE senators vote, where was Graham's vote? The voting mix up happened in his state.

[Bucky]

8. Or where was Kerry, for that matter? Sadly, all leaders fail purity tests

Did it bother me then? Yes. It doesn't bother me quite so much now. I think Democratic leaders have learned a few lessons since that vote. But at the time they just had no heart to fight. They're less like that now, but we have to keep on keeping their feet to the fire. On the whole Democrats are better candidates because they are responsive to outside pressure while Republicans generally are not.

Electing Democrats doesn't mean "winning," it only means a chance at winning. November isn't the finish line, it's the qualifier.

[SquireJons]

14. Most Democrats Voted for the War

Not because they agreed with shrubs philosophy, but because of political realities. It's easy for us on the sidelines to stand our ground, but very hard for politicians. You must remember that something like 90% of Americans supported going to war after 911, and the vast majority of them are not nuanced enough to make a distinction between one middle eastern bad guy and another.

If any Congressional Democrat had opposed the war, they would not be in a position to vote now, and would have simply thrown congress even more into the hands of the right wing. The hard thing about being a politician is to not stand up for you principles, because in fact you have to compromise all the time. The wise politician charts a pragmatic course, while trying to advance their agenda slowly. The others are usually former politicians.

[OutOfIraqNow]

18. but if we get enough people....

...to take our position, and then we present it to them; wouldn't they *have* to change their minds? Honestly, I think during that time there was a better "marketing scheme", for lack of a better term for the war to give the impression that the war had more support than it did.

I can only hope that with F-911 out, now we can see the truth that was going on out there, and hopefully next week we can really push our leadership to pull our troops out of Iraq.

[suegeo]

9. The vote is rigged in Florida

Since the vote is rigged in Florida, I don't see why choosing Graham would be a smart move. Jesus Christ could be from Florida, and if Kerry chooses Christ as a V.P., he would still lose the state.

Graham seems like an ok guy, and the strategy is sound, until you consider all the vote tampering Jeb does for his brother in that state (for e.g. purge of the voting rolls, electronic vote machines etc)

[cureautismnow]

13. I Agree.

Graham would be an excellent choice. He would fight Jeb-boy in Florida if the crook tries to steal it again. He has nothing to lose since he is retiring from the Senate.

Plus, Graham VOTED NO on giving Junior the power to wage war on Iraq.

Of course, Clark and Edwards are wonderful choices, too. I just hope he picks the VP soon. JK needs all the political manpower he can muster to defeat the BFEE.

[Hamlette]

15. will we spend more time talking about Graham's notebooks than his book?

They weird me out.

Seems an odd idiosyncrasy and I don't criticize him for it but the media might crucify him for it and we'll spend too much time talking about Graham's entry for some odd date than issues.

On a poll on a non political board, Bush/Cheney got 24.7%, Bush with someone else got 7%, Kerry/Edwards got 30%, Kerry/McCain got 18%, Kerry with someone else got 14% and the rest said "can't/don't plan to vote."

Maybe that is a liberal group but my gut tells me that's how the US really feels. I know the polls don't agree but not only is the question important when conducting a poll but people lie to pollsters.

An interesting clip from the board:

. . . parents. I call mine "Born Again Democrats". Life long, registered, republicans who are completely appalled at the actions of their party and president. They were extemely upset during the last election. They live in Florida, and as registered Republicans they received not one, but 3 phone calls from the republican party asking them basically go to polling places to be "in the way" during the election fiasco. Somehow they didn't see this as being in the best interest of democracy

[cureautismnow]

17. Notebooks, Schmotebooks...

If that's the worst "dirt'" they can dredge up on Graham, then a Kerry/Graham ticket can win in a landslide. Creepy and weird apply to Junior a gazillion times more than BG.

Graham is also UNDEFEATED in Florida (9-0). He was elected to the Florida legislature 4 times, served as governor twice, and has served as U.S. Senator for 3 terms.

Contrast his work ethic with Shrub's slovenly existence (although Junior should be proud of his forced community service with P.U.L.L.!):

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://graham.senate.gov/biography.html

Workdays: Bob Graham began Workdays in 1974, teaching a semester of civics at Carol City Senior High School in Miami while serving in the Florida Senate. He performed 100 Workdays in 1978 during his first successful campaign for governor. He has completed nearly 400 Workdays - more than a year's worth of days spent laboring side-by-side with the people he represents. His Workdays are an extension of his belief in a personal style of governing.

Graham has continued doing Workdays throughout his tenure as governor and in the United States Senate. His jobs have included service as a police officer, railroad engineer, construction worker, fisherman, garbageman, factory worker, busboy, and teacher. On No. 365, he checked in customers, handled baggage and helped serve passengers on USAirways. By working closely with Floridians, Graham learns about the hopes and challenges they face. For him, there is no substitute for that kind of on-the-job experience.
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No Matter what Faux polls or any other RW polls show, FL is a BLUE state. It was in 2000 and it will be in 2004. There will be no butterfly ballots or other injustices to save the Bush-boys this time. The Smirking Chimp can not continue to squat in the WH without stealing Florida again. The electoral votes just aren't there.

Kerry/Edwards leads in the poll because they know John Edwards. I applaud his dedication and perserverance in the recent campaign. I will support a Kerry/Edwards ticket 100% and I think it's a winning ticket.

But I not only want a winning ticket, I want to bury these corrupt bastards who stole my country. I want to destroy their credibility and likeability. I want to see them go down in embarrassing flames in November. What better way to do that than to beat the S.O.B. in his little brother's state?

It doesn't hurt that F9/11 is showing in over 50 Florida theatres, also! NC has only a dozen or so.

IMO, we have a better chance of humiliating Bush-boy in the electoral college game with BG than with Edwards. But we will win with Kerry/Graham, Kerry/Edwards, Kerry/Clark or Kerry/and Joe Schmoe as long as we keep our eyes on the prize, my friend.
:toast:

[MirrorAshes]

16. I *love* Graham, but he just doesnt have the prescence for it

Seriously--hes a brilliant man, but hes not a good speaker at all. I really can't bear to watch a repeat of the '00 VP debates where Cheney walked all over Lieberman. Not that Cheney would beat him on points, but Graham just has a problem with clarity and getting his point out.

[OutOfIraqNow]

19. I agree.

Graham is an okay guy. But I'd rather have Edwards. We need a pit-bull to fight the attacks from BushCo. Kerry can't do it because it won't look presidential. I like Edwards because he knows how to act tough and fight.

[cureautismnow]

21. Both Are Nice Guys, Not Pit-Bulls

...and that's not a concern of mine. Edwards does take shots at GWB, but he still seems like a cordial fellow. I can picture a grandmother wanting to pinch his cheeks...

OTOH, the conservative media in Florida have gone out of their way to portray Graham as being mean-spirited to Junior whenever he has criticized him in the last 3 or 4 years. It's like they are "shocked" that he would say such "hateful" things about "our" pResident.

IMO, the RW media take the Graham threat more seriously than Edwards...

I'll be happy with either pick, though, I do hope Kerry studies the following VERY closely ----> http://www.electoral-vote.com before making his selection.

[cureautismnow]

20. I Respectfully Disagree.

His speaking skills are more than adequate to take on the vile VP and are lights years beyond Junior's "oratory prowess." Graham is no Lieberman. Gore/Graham would have put Florida in the Blue column permanently and without ANY DOUBT.

Before the Bush Invasion into Iraq, Graham voted NO. He clearly explained his reasoning - We should concentrate on finding Al-Queda and not divert limited resources to Iraq who had nothing to do with 9/11. He was proven right.

[MirrorAshes]

22. Fair Enough--Gore/Graham would have been excellent.

And I didn't mean to compare him to Lieberman--I have FAR more respect for Graham. I just fear that his style wouldn't translate all that well to a national audience. I could be wrong, since what he says is so totally right on the money, its just in his delivery.