Court orders La. golf club to allow women into men-only restaurant

[Kadie]

Court orders La. golf club to allow women into men-only restaurant

By JANET McCONNAUGHEY, Associated Press


Last Updated: July 6, 2004, 05:09:00 PM PDT


NEW ORLEANS (AP) - The Louisiana Supreme Court Tuesday ordered a country club to open its men-only restaurant to women, rejecting claims that members sometimes dine there in the nude.

"In the twenty-first century, it is simply archaic to cite protection of women from the sights and sounds of a locker room environment as an excuse for excluding them from the public dining area as it exists in this country club," Justice John L. Weimer wrote for the unanimous court.

The decision upheld an appeals court ruling against Southern Trace Country Club in Shreveport. The club has three restaurants; only The Men's Grille is open Sundays.

According to the high court, the club failed to prove its claim that allowing women into the restaurant would violate men's privacy.

more... http://www.modbee.com/24hour/nation/story/1478245p-8913168c.html

[DarkPhenyx]

1. How unfortunate.

I really wish they would quit doing this, or as an alternative, use the rulings evenly to promote real equality. Sadly I don't see that happening any time soon.

[gatlingforme]

2. I do not understand your post? Do you mean that it is unfortunate

that women can now go the the "Men's Grille"? I am not sure what you disagree to?

[DarkPhenyx]

5. Yes. That would be it. n/t

[oldcoot]

3. What is unfortunate?

How is a men-only restaurant any different from a white-only restaurant?

[DarkPhenyx]

4. Or a womens only health club...

...or university?

[oldcoot]

9. Traditionally women's universities

I seem to remember hearing or reading that several women's universities have already opened their doors to men. If men want to sue to challenge laws that allow for single-sex health clubs, I have no problem with that. They might be able to even use this case as a legal precedent.

[DarkPhenyx]

10. The point would be that...

...womens universities are not required to have a percentage of male students. Any use of the argument that "it would provide a better learning environment", an argument used in other educational equality debates, is immediately called ludacris or worse. Those which have not opened their doors yet use the argument that it provides a unique educational environment that should be preserved, an argument that would never stand up if used in defense of an all male institution. The issue isn't restricted to sexual equality either.

I'm all for equality. Sufferage was a great thing, equal pay for equal work is well and past due, however equality cuts both ways. We don't have an equality movement in the US. We have a hypocrasy movement. Most of the people screaming for equality are really just looking to be the "more equal animal". It's human nature, but it's still hypocritical and wrong.

[jdj]

14. I completely disagree.

And I think you are totally wrong.

But you have apparently have an ax to grind, so grind it. It's unlikely you'l have an effect or produce the results you want, so if you enjoy being ineffective, party on dude!

p.s: suffrage
ludicrous

[DarkPhenyx]

19. Of course.

Very predictable BTW.

Care to explain why I am wrong or are you going to just run off? Remember, just like it works for Bush, simply saying it is so doesn't make it so. Becasuse I said so didn't even work when my parents tried using it on me.

[jdj]

28. No, honey, just letting you know.

There's about 150 years of women's suffrage you can google if you really want to know, and that's just in the U.S.. Sorry if I am taking too long to respond, I am watching "Blow Out" and Kimberly is trying to pass her hair cutting test so she can stop being Jonathan's assistant and get on the floor as a stylist. Meanwhile, all the other stylists are in the back alley and they are pissed that they don't have a shampoo person. Great, now Kimberly is crying.

Anyway, I can only respond during commercials. Just whiling away the time. You know all the anwers already, my friend, I'm sure. Your responses don't make sense to me, but I know where you are coming from. I'm glad I'm "predictable" because that means you know what I would say if I wanted to argue. Since you already know, you can argue with yourself, and you won't have to type. But when I see posts like yours, I have to represent. I'd feel bad if I didn't.

[DarkPhenyx]

30. So represent.

Say something. Make a point. Otherwise it's only useless kvetching and an attempt to silence opposing views. Either that or boo-hooing that someone might actually disagree with you so you feel the screaming need to cry about it.

[jdj]

32. Kvetching. Screaming. Boo-hooing. Crying.

Hyperbolizing, maybe?

I'm not trying to silence you at all. I'm saying I disagree. Can you dig it?

[DarkPhenyx]

34. Only if you make a point...

...and use logic and rational points to tell us why I'm wrong. Otherwise no...I can't dig it,and you are trying to silence me in exactly the same way the Bush Adminsitration tries to when they use their "with us or against us" rhetoric.

[jdj]

36. I'm not getting where you think someone saying "I disagree"

is trying to silence you. That is bizarre.

[DarkPhenyx]

38. ok...this is where.

And I think you are totally wrong.

But you have apparently have an ax to grind, so grind it. It's unlikely you'l have an effect or produce the results you want, so if you enjoy being ineffective, party on dude!

In this statement you are attempting to belittle my POV, and discredit me w/o even attempting to address the statements I made in any intellectual way. By doing so, in my opinion, you are using some of the same tactics the neo-Cons use to force their opponents to shut up w/o wanting to appear as if that is what they are trying to do. It's very similar to when a young lady had the audacity to question American foreign policy as pertains to Iraq when she had the chance to talk to Mr. Rumsfeld and his sole reply was "I take it from your comments you'd rather have Saddam Hussain back in power."

Or this post of yours.

Not as much as a misogynist as I thought you were. Not quite, anyway.

When I voiced an opinion you disagreed with you decided to label me in a way that would be objectionable w/o providing any sort of substantiation for the claim. Again, this is a tactic usually used to silence someone who wouldn't want to be thought of in that way. These days we most commonly see it used in conjunction with pejorative terms like "anti-American" and "unpatriotic". We also get "blame America first" and other inventive phrases.

[jdj]

41. Where did everybody go?

You and baltimore boy left and then showed back up at the same time. Are you two the same person? I waited a while...but I am going to give you the last word. You haven't changed your mind, and I assure you mine isn't going to change one iota.

I disagree, and I think you are totally wrong.

Grind on, brother, but in peace. Can't devote anymore time to this, Globetrekker is on and that is my all time favorite TV show, and since it's on PBS... no commercials.

[DarkPhenyx]

42. You have got to be kidding!

This is it? That was the best you could come back with?

Oy!

[Baltimoreboy]

45. Some of us have other obligations

Other than to debate someone who isn't even debating the issue, just issuing ad hominem attacks on her opponents.

[Warpy]

6. When businessmen stop using male only venues

as places to wine and dine clients and make deals, then this "foolishness" will stop. When golfing clubs and attached bars are used for sports and drinking and not as places to exclude half the citizens of this country access to dealmaking, then "silly little women" will stop suing for admittance.

Honestly, if these were only grotty little places where married men went to get away from the nagging wife and screaming kids and play a little golf and knock a few back, nobody would care. However, these places are far more than that, and banning half the business community from them is WRONG.

Real equality means equality of access.

[Baltimoreboy]

7. Freedom of association also applies

If a group of men, women, blacks, Hispanics, German-Americans, gays or whoever want to form a club and exclude others, it is their right to do so. As long as they don't get tax breaks, they can hang out with whomever they wish.

[DarkPhenyx]

8. It won't stop even then unfortunately.

Real equality means absense of hypocrasy in the application of laws enforcing equality. We don't have that.

[jdj]

11. maybe if you went to a women's college

you'd know how to spell hypocrisy.

[DarkPhenyx]

13. prehaps.

I do know how to spell "fuck off" though. If you can't find anything better to pick on I win. My typo's are nothing new, you are way to late, and far too unimaginative, for your comment to have any real teeth.

[jdj]

15. Darn! You aren't going to call me a bitch?

Not as much as a misogynist as I thought you were. Not quite, anyway.

[DarkPhenyx]

16. *laughing loudly*

Oh you really didn't pay attention.

No, I am not a misogynist. I'm something else entirely which most people don't understand at all. This would be why I get called misogynist and a great many other things that are just as equally wrong.

[jdj]

18. Oh, the pubescent uniqueness complex.

How boring.

[DarkPhenyx]

21. and now you are left with nothing but silly insults.

no counter arguments. no points of disagreement. just insults.

I Win!

[jdj]

22. Where are your spoils?

What have you won?

This is getting sadder by the moment.

[DarkPhenyx]

25. No spoils.

Just the realization that discourse in America truly has been reduced to the "your wrong I'm right so there" mentailty that we see so often from the Right. It's sad to see it infecting my people too. No discussion. No review of differing points of view. Just I'm wrong and that's that.

[jdj]

31. You know what?

Too bad this is my reality TV nite. You're right about the above. But it's time for MTV Real World San Diego reunion, and I want to see how Robin justifies calling the black man she fought with a -----. I don't see how she can, but that is another thread.

I'm too old to even debate this stuff though. If you had caught me ten years ago, we'd be here all night.. But, there's always the next "men eat with their balls hanging out" thread.

[put out]

26. It's "typos", I think.

The typographical errors you make do not possess anything; therefore an apostrophe is not needed. The typographical errors are plural, not possessive. Just a suggestion.

[DarkPhenyx]

27. *sticking tongue out at you*

Yeah, you are right. Oh well.

[Baltimoreboy]

20. Typo police

If you intend to start targeting typos and grammar in an effort to discredit those with whom you disagree, you will have plenty of opportunity. The web is a rapid medium and few people here post with perfection.

[jdj]

23. Myself included.

But at least "fuck off" wasn't a typo, so we know how to spell the really important words.

[Baltimoreboy]

24. Yes, it wasn't misspelled

Nor was it unearned.

[jdj]

33. You boys are so emotional.

Must be your time of the month. Glad you've bonded, though.

[Baltimoreboy]

39. I never got emotional

Though it always amuses me when women say the very things that they jump all over men about.

[jdj]

40. You got the irony!

[Baltimoreboy]

46. With you it's irony

If a man had made a similar comment, we'd be violating the sacred rules and the women and many men would jump all over us.

So bigotry is OK when you do it?

[funkybutt]

51. strip clubs aren't male only

business men "wine and dine" clients in these places all the time. The difference is: Women CAN CHOOSE not to patronize these joints...they aren't male-only....

some women dig that kind of thing...to each his /her own :)

[chimpy the poopthrower]

12. I can't believe no one has commented on the fact that...

...men are supposedly dining nude??!!! I know it's far from being the most relevant aspect of this story, but... :wtf:

[jdj]

17. Can men really eat while looking at another guy's nuts?

The judge probably thought that this was just something the attorney made up to try and win the case. Or maybe this is normal in private clubs...I don't know, never been in one. I was in the local country club the other day, and this man walked by and said "I'm going to go shake hands with my best friend." Then he proceeded to walk into the bathroom. (He was talking to his friend, not me). That's my only weird male testicles country club experience.

[DarkPhenyx]

29. I can.

Or more to the point I can eat w/o looking, which is a completely different thing I guess. Nudity, male or female, is not an issue for me. It's the context of the nudity that is important.

[jdj]

35. No, I mean while looking. Like, you're having a conversation

and you look up and this guy's walking by and his nuts are swinging from side to side.

Men seem to make a big deal about how unattractive they find each other. Straight men, anyway.

[DarkPhenyx]

37. when it comes to eating...

...a anked woman could walk by and I'd still keep the conversation going. Come to think of it I don't think I'd be talking. I tend to get a bit focused when it comes to food.

[Darth_Kitten]

49. Wouldn't they be violating some health code?

:shrug:

[pennylane100]

43. The point I believe that is being missed in this discussion

is that women and men pay the same dues and should be entitled to use the club facilities on an equal basis. If this club that has male and female members, and according to what I have read so far, it does. It is not OK to give less service, i.e. use of all the clubs facilities, to one and not the other, it is as simple as that. At least, as I see it.

[Bridget Burke]

48. Don't you know that nobody actually reads these articles?

They skim through the opening post & begin spouting their opinion. Actual "facts" might impede the flow of BS. (I did read the thing & I agree with you.)

The club has male & female members. There are several restaurants but the Grille is the only one open on Sunday. Some female members wanted to dine after golfing but were refused admittance. Apparently some men do choose to dine wearing towels, in violation of the club's dress code suggesting "casual but appropriate attire".

According to the article, there are tables in the locker room. So, even if women are allowed in the Grille, there will still be a safe haven for the closeted members who wish to indulge in a bit of "manly bonding" without actually going to one of "those" bars.

[Moloch]

44. Oh lord, not again...

We have WAY too many brain dead morans in Louisiana who think we are living in the 1850's... I wish some other state would be kind enough to take them off our hands...

[Darth_Kitten]

47. Of course, the drinks and meals need to be SERVED.......

silly boys...... ;)

[funkybutt]

50. Because Women need to eat on sunday's too

the restaurant closure is really no different than refusing membership to women. I was just in Shreveport over this past weekend and it is a mostly right wing community. Not one Kerry sticker or sign sighting there. Anyway I agree with the court's ruling and aparently the club agrees to cooperate as well. It's not fair to deny service to anyone based on their race, sex, or religious affiliation. I think anyone who would argue otherwise should move to some country where the constitution doesn't protect people from such discrimination.