Sex claims 'bankrupt US archdiocese'

[DoYouEverWonder]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3872083.stm

Wednesday, 7 July

A Roman Catholic archdiocese in the US is to declare bankruptcy because it cannot meet the cost of claims by people allegedly abused by its priests.

The Archdiocese of Portland, Oregon, will be the first in the US to do so.

The action will suspend the start of a civil trial of a priest accused of molesting more than 50 boys.

Other US Roman Catholic dioceses are also facing bankruptcy, or have had to sell property, to meet the cost of abuse claims brought against priests.

<snip>

Boston, one of the largest archdioceses in America and the place where the sex abuse scandal began more than two years ago, opted to sell property instead.

Throughout the US, sex abuse cases have cost more than $650m but the Church is also paying a heavy price in lost prestige and damage to its moral authority.

[truthisfreedom]

1. can't say as i feel too bad for the church. the parishoners? sad for them.

what did they do to deserve this creepy bunch of weirdos?

[sniffa]

10. yeah, the poor things

wiLL have to find another church to give their money to.

[LibertyorDeath]

2. Good !

Reap what you sew

[Corby]

3. Save money...

stop molesting kids.

I've a hard time sympathizing with the RC on this one.

[DoYouEverWonder]

4. It seems they are using the bankruptcy

has an excuse to delay and drag out an ongoing case against one of their priests.

Maybe they should just sell off a few gold chalices or some property to pay off their debts to the victims of these horrible crimes?

In the meantime, have any of these pedophile priests been forced to leave the church or punished by the church in any significant way?

[Nevernose]

5. It's not pedophile priests who cost them this money

It's trying to cover it up that opens up the CC to huge penalty judgements.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

7. My thoughts exactly

If the Church had immediately done something about the pedophiles, like defrocking them and sending them to treatment and/or the State's Attorney, then I would have more sympathy for them. But years and years of allowing this practice to continue....

[cliss]

36. Good point.

Don't look to me for any sympathy. The church knew what was going on, for decades. And by the way, guess who got a big promotion, now that he is in exile, in the Vatican City?

Reverend Bernard Lawless, that's who. The Pope himself gave him a big promotion.

[DarkPhenyx]

6. Time to start selling off the gold.

Sorry, I can't work up a big woo-hoo about this news.

[DoYouEverWonder]

9. Unfortunately the Catholic Church

is more concerned about protecting themselves and their pedophile priests, than they are in bringing criminals to justice and helping right the wrongs that have been done to the victims.

This latest ploy is beyond sickening.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

12. Ploy? You think filing for bankrupcy is a ploy?

Please.

[DoYouEverWonder]

13. You think the CC is broke?

Or that they don't have enough assets to sell off to settle these lawsuits?

Yes, in this case it is definitely a ploy.

[Baltimoreboy]

15. The diocese is different from the entire church

[BlueCollar]

8. Time for tort reform?

After all, the repubs are big on that concept...

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

11. What about all the elderly clergy who never harmed anyone?

What are they suposed to do?

[DoYouEverWonder]

14. Maybe these elderly clergy

who supposedly have never hurt anyone, should stand up and do what is right and demand that their pedophile brethren be punished appropriately?

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

16. So they "supposedly" never hurt anyone - following your implied logic

every priest is a pedophile.

[DoYouEverWonder]

17. There are plenty of other ways to hurt people

like the pastor I had who was too hung over on my communion day to hold the chalice still. Maybe he never physically hurt anyone, but he sured ruined my day.

[Baltimoreboy]

18. Poor boy

Priests are human. I guess you never learned that.

[DoYouEverWonder]

20. You mean they lied?

That's not what they told us when I was a kid. We were taught that the priests and nuns were god's representatives on earth. They were between us and god and in order to get to god, we had to go through them.

The clergy take vows and if they can not live up to those vows, then they should have the good graces to leave the clergy and go back to being mere mortal humans.

[Baltimoreboy]

23. God's representatives, but not infallible

You expect perfection of others. That's a guaranteed way to be disappointed.

[DoYouEverWonder]

Doesn't the pope claim to be infallible?

Isn't that one of the major tenets of the church? I know that that was one of the major beliefs that they tried to instill in us when I was in school. Don't worry, by the time I was seven, I had seen proof positive that they weren't.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

27. The dogma of papal infallibility only applies in matters of church

teaching. This is a common misconception of people who hate the church. No where does the church claim that any person is infallible and it would be naive to assume so.

I think the way you are approaching this is very black and white when it is a nuanced subject.

If you were told that the only way to God was through priests and nuns you were taught incorrectly and you should look at yourself because you believed it.

[impe]

31. Now wait a minute

...since priests according to the CC are able to give sacrements which are the staples of salvation (according to the church) and withhold them at will, as evidenced by the Kerry communion commotion, your position on the role of priests in service needs to be in line with church doctrine. You're almost sounding like a heretic.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

32. I don't see where you're coming from. How am I going out of line of

doctrine? Does church doctrine say that you can only be saved through priests? Have you read the Catechism of the Catholic Church?

How do I sound like a heretic?

[impe]

39. First of All

my latter comment was an attempt at humour. It looks like it did a fly-by. Secondly, yes I have read the catechism of the CC. Particularly, Chapter 2, Article 3, The Church, Mother, and Teacher.

Lastly, the act off transubstantiation per the Council of Trent, gives Priests unique abilities, hence the fear to be denied communion or last rites, etc. by a Priest.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

19. Well - seems like you have a very strong bias here

I'll keep that in mind as I read your posts.

[DoYouEverWonder]

22. May we then agree

to disagree.

It seems you have a strong bias has well?

Peace be with you.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

24. And also with you

As for myself - I belong to a wonderful parish with priests that I would trust my children with (if I had children). It pains me when I hear the blanket condemnations here.

That's all. Its sad to know that a small percentage of priests and Bishops are devastating the church in this country. Very sad.

I do not rejoice.

[JerseygirlCT]

38. Didn't they have a responsibility to speak out, too?

I know what you're saying: I grew up with a wonderful pastor, who's since been forced into retirement, though he didn't want it. His bishop thinks he's too much of a maverick, I'd guess.

Anyway, I do hate to think of him in a bad state b/c of the bad behavior of others.

But where were all the whistleblowers and noisemakers when kids were being horribly harmed and bishops were looking the other way?

If the open-minded folks in the church hierarchy would speak up far more often -- on a host of subjects -- the church would find itself improving I think.

[NashVegas]

21. duplicate

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=667992

[sendero]

25. Once again...

... churches act like businesses, have the priveleges of businesses, but are not taxed. It's time to treat churches like businesses because it is becoming hard to tell the difference between the two.

[Baltimoreboy]

28. Not even close

Naturally, churches have some similarities. They transact business, hire and fire employees, pay bills, etc.

All the things a typical nonprofit does.

[tom_paine]

26. Pulling an OJ

They want to save their "Heisman Trophies".

Apologies if this offends but that's how I see it.

[JerseygirlCT]

29. It will be interesting to watch how the PR machine of the church plays

this. I suspect we'll hear a great deal about all the charitable work that won't get done now, all the poor parishioners w/o their church... Because those awful lawsuits are forcing them to this.

I hope no one is apt to buy the line. There are reasons for this situation: poor choices in who is accepted into seminary (including the horrible continuing refusal to ordain women), poor education of those in seminary, and most of all, absolute egotistical refusal of the bishops to address the situation. It's truly shameful.

Unfortunately, since simple human goodness seems to have no effect, perhaps hitting them hard in the pocketbook is the only way.

[bitchkitty]

30. Born Catholic -

and I can't say I feel sorry for them. You'd think that Rome would come to the rescue; God knows they have enough money.

[elehhhhna]

33. I read somewhere

That the assets of each Archdio. are held in the name of their Bishop. This keeps them all seperate, so the Vatican can cut 'em off like a green toe.

Anybody else hear that one?

[DoYouEverWonder]

34. Yes, something like that

That was the excuse they were using up in Boston when they started crying poor.

[DaveSZ]

35. "Time for tort reform?"

Ah, you may have nailed the real reason why the CC is backing Bush now.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

37. The CC is not backing Bush

They're not backing anyone

Don't believe the hype

[Moderator]

40. This is a duplicate

Sorry I didn't catch this sooner.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=667992