Pentagon Say Bush Records of Service Were Destroyed

[PfcHammer]

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/09/politics/campaign/09records.html

Pentagon Say Bush Records of Service Were Destroyed
By RALPH BLUMENTHAL
Published: July 9, 2004

HOUSTON, July 8 - Military records that could help establish President Bush's whereabouts during his disputed service in the Texas Air National Guard more than 30 years ago have been inadvertently destroyed, according to the Pentagon.

It said the payroll records of "numerous service members," including former First Lt. Bush, had been ruined in 1996 and 1997 by the Defense Finance and Accounting Service during a project to salvage deteriorating microfilm. No back-up paper copies could be found, it added in notices dated June 25.

The destroyed records cover three months of a period in 1972 and 1973 when Mr. Bush's claims of service in Alabama are in question.

The disclosure appeared to catch some experts, both pro-Bush and con, by surprise. Even the retired lieutenant colonel who studied Mr. Bush's records for the White House, Albert C. Lloyd of Austin, said it came as news to him.

[Skittles]

1. LOL

they think we will believe ANYTHING.

[neomonkey]

19. The problem is,

my friend, we will, sadly, and that is why they continue to feed us the constant stream of neverending bullshit.

[thebigidea]

25. they inadvertently, accidentally no-really destroyed them.

And the custodian of records accidentally brutally hacked himself to death while shaving. Honestly!

[Kool Kitty]

45. And all this time I thought that the custodian

suddenly brutally cut off his own head while combing his hair. Accidentally destroyed the records? What utter horseshit.

[Pachamama]

134. BUSH wasn't AWOL??? - PROVE IT!!! Until then, I'm going w/ AWOL...

...a coke snorting frat boy deserter....how convenient that they saved the records of the "honorable discharge"

:grr:

[zbird]

2. Isn't that convenient?

They do cover all the bases, don't they?

[Az_lefty]

3. Ahhh shucks!!!!

just when we thought we were onto something, this happens. /-sarcasm

[teach1st]

4. That darn Bush!

Hijinks a' plenty!

[Peak_Oil]

5. Smithers, fetch me my microfilm-destroying machine. Muhuhahah!

Insane.

[Hobarticus]

6. Sorry, I dropped a whole personnel file into the shredder...

This is SO ham-fisted and obvious that it defies belief!!!

Can't wait to see the spin on this one!

[xray s]

7. "Deteriorating microflim"

Someone probably spilled a bottle of scotch on them...

[goclark]

Found my relatives in 1920 on microfilm

Really odd about that particular batch that just "happened" to contain *'s records.

Is there no end to what they think they can make us believe!

The Mormon Temple has microfilm that are in perfect condition after many more years. Have the other solders been notified that all there army records are lost too?

[Hoping4Change]

I found my great granduncles 1911 obits on microfilm stored

in Toronto's main reference library. If microfilm that is repeatedly accessed by the public is in perfect condition how is that microfiche that was probably undisturbed for years have been damaged?

I'd like to know the condition of other army microfilm? And if they can't keep microfilm in good order how are they doing with the stores of chemical and nuclear weapons?

[truthisfreedom]

49. ok, now i'm really angry. DOES ANYONE HERE KNOW ABOUT MICROFILM?

it's NOT SUPPOSED TO deteriorate. it's been nearly perfected... and that microfilm would have been around only since the 70's... not the 30's when things were on nitrocellulose.

SOMEONE WHO KNOWS MORE ABOUT MICROFILM SHOULD WRITE TO THE WRITER OF THAT ARTICLE. this needs to be kept in the news... it's going to be stonewalled so much by the military that it will last until the election... KEEP IT ALIVE! there's obviously a conspiracy at the highest levels of the military. THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX DOES NOT WANT TO SEE BUSH GO, AND THEY'VE JUST BUNGLED.

[Cassandra]

88. From Wikipedia...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microfilm

"Third, it is a stable archival form. Most library microfilms use polyester with silver-halide dyes in hard gelatin, with an estimated life of 500 years in air-conditioning. In tropical climates with high humidities, fungus eats the gelatin used to hold silver-halide. In the tropics, diazo-based systems with lower archival lives (20 years) are preferable, because they have polyester or epoxy surfaces."

Were they holding it hostage at Gitmo?
This so stinks to high Heaven!

[amandabeech]

158. Not that I believe a thing that the Bushies put out, but

if this stuff were stored in an unairconditioned warehouse in S. Louis, then they endured tropical conditions in the summer, IMHO. I went to St. Louis on business one summer and it was right up there with Houston on the heat and humidity front!

[ixion]

164. it may be the same temprature, but conditions are only tropical in

the tropics. The humidity, the salt in the air, the pervasive bacteria present in tropical rainforests create a very volatile environment for the persitance of anything.

It is very different from storing it in a warehouse in St. Louis, to be sure.

[drkedjr]

159. And when I think about all the drug abuse

I had to go through to get out of the draft - they offered me rehab - it just makes me sick to think
how young men had to do what they had to do for self preservation. Then, there were people like
John Kerry....

[daleo]

8. I will bet it didn't catch anybody here by surprise.

n/t

[unfrigginreal]

9. Damn, I bet they hate that that happened.

[k in IA]

10. What a coinkydink! Poor Chimpy, I'm sure they would have

proved all of his claims to be true.

(sarcasm - do I really need to post that?)

[PartyPooper]

11. Scrub-A-Dub-Dubya!

Until Squeaky Clean!

[BillZBubb]

12. We don't know how that 20 minute gap got on the tape! 1974

We don't what happened to those records! 2004

The more things change with the Repukes, the more they stay the same.

edited for 20 minute Rose Mary Woods gap (IIRC).

[Journeyman]

41. It was an 18 minute gap. . .

but other than that, you're spot on.

[liberalpress]

110. Originally it WAS a twenty minute gap...

...but when Nixon advisors finished transferring to microfilm, two minutes were accidentally destroyed.

[Webster Green]

13. OMFG!

LOL!! Gimme a break!

[markses]

14. Fool me once...er...uhhh

Dickwad.

[NNN0LHI]

15. Whodathunk? n/t

[kwolf68]

16. LOL

We can find the original Decleration of Independence...even parts of the bible, but Chimp's military "service" records find a way to get destroyed.

I call BS.

[riverwalker]

17. America gets Cheneyed again

The National Archives still obtains records of veterans of the Civil War, but (ooooops)the records of Dumya's "service" in THOSE 3 months in 1972 and 1973, just happened to get destroyed.

[Swede Atlanta]

18. Yeah right

Well isn't that so "conveeeeenient"....... I think an investigation needs to be launched into how select military records that may be relevant in future to all kinds of important issue such as medical benefits, etc. were destroyed or lost. Something is rotten in Denmark. Of course we all know no investigation will be started until WE take back control of this nation.

[doxieone]

20. Friday night surprises usually happen at Friday night.....

But even this was too big to dump at Friday night. They had to dump it one day ahead of time.

[doxieone]

21. PS WHAT TOOK SO LONG TO SAY THEY WERE

DESTROYED??

This could have been said years ago.

[truthspeaker]

43. It takes a long time to dissolve microfilm!

It doesn't burn well.

[olddem43]

22. One more small stink in an ocean of BS from this bunch -

How much more will the public put up with?

[TeeYiYi]

23. Well, isn't that conveeeeeeeeennnient. ...n/t

TYY

[KC21304]

24. 96 and 97, hmm. Just about the time some big

time Texas turds were starting to groom the idiot for the White House.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

96. Excellent observation esteemed Kerryfan!

and oh so conveniently it was the '72 -'73 "gap" in service period which bit the dust (or met the dust as it were).

[mountainvue]

139. Wasn't this about the same

time his driver's license records were scrubbed?

[Th1onein]

26. Poor little Bushie......it's like an EPIDEMIC of destroyed records

with him, isn't it? His Texas driver's license number, which is the only state in the Union that carries a record of ALL the infranctions of the law, is mysteriously "replaced." All of the records of his arrest in Texas, for which he served community service, are missing. And now this?

Poor little Bushie! It's like all the wrath of the fates are coming down on this poor man!

I wrote some "hot" checks, which I later paid for, in the 90's (two kids, one with CF, and I'm GONNA feed them, like it or not). And I live in Texas, so they will follow me for the rest of my life.

Can I get the same treatment from fate? Please?

[Liberal_Dog]

27. No Doubt

And were probably dumped into 50 different trash cans all over the Pentagon.

[AussieInCA]

28. 3 months in question self destructs...ROFL..you gota be kidding me

this will back fire on the idiots...just another example of covering up the truth and lack of transparency.

Add another tick to the "no credibility chimp"

[UpInArms]

29. the keystone cops have crossed with the mission impossible

gang and the tape has self destructed!

Yeah, pull on the other leg folks, that one is broken.

It is too convenient for words - but what was that guy's name - oh yeah, Bill Burkett - who said that they had destroyed those records?

Mr. Burkett, could you come back to the microphone please?

http://talkleft.com/new_archives/005292.html

Retired National Guard Lt. Col. Bill Burkett said Tuesday that in 1997, then-Gov. Bush's chief of staff, Joe Allbaugh, told the National Guard chief to get the Bush file and make certain "there's not anything there that will embarrass the governor."

Col. Burkett said that a few days later at Camp Mabry in Austin, he saw Mr. Bush's file and documents from it discarded in a trash can. He said he recognized the documents as retirement point summaries and pay forms.

Bush aides denied any destruction of records in Mr. Bush's personnel file. "The charges are just flat-out not true," said Dan Bartlett, White House communications director. He said the president has been forthright in producing all documents relevant to his stint in the Texas Air National Guard, from 1968 to 1973. He dismissed Col. Burkett as a disgruntled former officer of the Texas Guard. Mr. Allbaugh, now a Washington lobbyist, called Col. Burkett's assertions "hogwash."

[UpInArms]

87. from the article link provided

He went on: "In 1996 and 1997, DFAS engaged with limited success in a project to salvage deteriorating microfilm. During this process the microfilm payroll records of numerous service members were damaged, including from the first quarter of 1969 (Jan. 1 to March 31) and the third quarter of 1972 (July 1 to Sept. 30). President Bush's payroll records for these two quarters were among the records destroyed. Searches for backup paper copies of the missing records were unsuccessful."

[fla nocount]

30. Not all is lost

Some of this is preserved in "Fortunate Son" by John Hatfield who got his ass suicided in an Arkansas motel room. The Seminole County Library has a copy that I bought and donated. Check it out.

[Rose Siding]

31. This. Is. HILARIOUS.

The freaking dog ate my service records would have EXACTLY as much believability.

In face, I'm quite certain that was GW's first suggestion, "why can't we just say Barney ate them?" "Well, Mr President, Barney hadn't been born yet back then" "Oh, ok. Just fix it"

[shawn703]

32. Clinton's fault?

How long before we hear them say that since it happened in 1996 - 1997, it's Clinton's fault Bush can't prove his whereabouts?

[Leilani]

33. I am Shocked & in Awe

Not!

[Solly Mack]

34. I'm only surprised it took them this long to come up with

the idea

considering his father's SEC filings were also "inadvertently destroyed" for Zapata Oil

[Mel]

35. yea right

as far as I'm concerned this only proves that *Bush was AWOL and that he does have something to hide. Someone destroyed those gd records on purpose I don't believe this story at all they are lying AGAIN.

The 'Yellow Rose of Texas' is worse than Nixon! Hell, I've said it before and I'll say it again in the end he's gonna' make Nixon look like a Saint.

[The Zanti Regent]

36. and the WHORE PRESS lets Chimp off the hook again!

Why am I not surprised?

[cureautismnow]

37. Nonsense. Microfilm Lasts 100+ Years...

The life span of microfilm is estimated to be over 100+ years.

http://www.fichenet.com/MicrofilmImagingFacts.htm

No way does it "deteriorate" in less than 20. In Bushspeak, Salvage = Destroy, War = Peace, Up = Down, etc...

Will these evil bastards EVER be called on ANYTHING????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:puke:

[tabasco]

75. No No ! Dubya was part of a Mission Impossible type team...

The records self-destructed and the Secretary disavows any knowledge of Dubya's missions!

[maxrandb]

150. And Don't Forget

We can't copy the database of foreign lobbyist because "copying it will destroy it."

This is the type of excuse and explanation I get from my children when they've been caught with "their hand in the cookie jar." Any parent who believes this needs to have their "cheneying" head examined.

[Sharpodotcom]

38. Plausible

Seems like an unfortunate coincidence to me. It's funny how many convenient coincidents can occur. Just one of those things. But what really matter here is just how did John Kerry win his medals?

[MaineDem]

74. Sarcasm, I hope? (nt)

[tabasco]

77. That's not what matters at all.

- The issue is George W. Bush's disappearing military records, not John Kerry's existing and public military records.
- Having served in the military for many years, I know that Silver Stars and Purple Hearts are EARNED through honorable service and valor.
- I trust field commanders a hell of a lot more than I do records custodians. Stop insulting the military, freepo.

[RedEarth]

100. What matters is how Kerry won his medals?.....please explain

I would like to know why thats important to you....

[RedEarth]

102. .

[Hoping4Change]

108. Your post might lead one to think you're trolling.

Kerry's real medals aren't the ones that are awarded by the military brass. His medals are his brothers who served with him who stand by his side and acclaim his courage. That kind of honour shines like a light.

That snivelling smirking yellow-bellied weasel in the white house is worth shit. Who bears witness to his courage? Where is his mettle let alone medals?

[liveoaktx]

39. 2nd stupid excuse of week-to include Justice Department's

Can't get a report for ya out of our computer.

DEVIOUS AND INCOMPETENT

[hansolsen]

40. ILSHRTTTTRDMCAIDNFOTC

I laughed so hard reading this thread the tears rolled down my cheeks and I damn near fell off the chair.

[librechik]

52. oh, you meanTHOSE records! The dog ate those too.

you see, Shrub would dearly love to prove that he did his duty in Alabama. It just can't be done! Sorry, life's like that sometimes.

[happynewyear]

42. I find this difficult to believe - records from 1918 are out there!

I do not believe this for one second. Why was it that I was able to locate and obtain detailed records on my grandfather who served in WWI in 1918? I even got a copy of his marriage certificate to my grandmother from 1920 (that was included in his VA file records along with many detailed medical records). The cemetery where he is buried has details on his service record. The V.A. even sent me a copy of his discharge papers! And my grandfather has been dead for almost 50 years.

Lost? MY ASS!!!! :wtf: :nuke:

Impeach this lying piece of * now! LIAR!!!

:dem: :kick:

[truthisfreedom]

44. ruined by salvaging? we had to kill it to save it? kinda like Iraq?

the level of corruption and conspiracy involved in this administration is beyond scary... it's like a cross between twilight zone and x-files.

[Piperay]

67. Yeah and also kind of like

chimpy's forestry plan, cut the trees down to save them from burning. :mad:

[Jack Rabbit]

46. Were these the records last seen in the dumpster?

[faithnotgreed]

47. if even one of you would email your response here maybe the

light would come on.
somewhere - cnn or nytimes or ...

seriously, these are some funny posts! and oh so true

[Occulus]

48. LET'S NAIL THIS BASTARD THIS TIME

Ok, here's our mission:

-find out exactly what the microfilm was made of. Was there something different about this microfilm that made it more susceptible to deterioration/destruction?

-find out exactly what possible methods *can* be used to restore damaged/deteriorating microfilm. Is there a potential for the destruction of the original in any of these methods?

-CALL THEM ON IT. (WE know this wasn't 'accidentally' possible, but we need to put together an airtight case that it couldn't have happened the way they're saying it happened.)

[Hoping4Change]

99. Maybe the librarians who helped get Moore's Stupid White

Men published can help with this.

[sound head]

50. IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE

The public is asleep at the switch. Bush could probably kill live on TV, and there is still 50% of the people who would either deny it happened or believe his lame excuse.

They seem to cut off or co-opt every avenue of attack.

[Occulus]

57. Why do you think I'm starting to firmly believe

* really IS the Antichrist?

:scared:

[struggle4progress]

51. It looks like somebody just destroyed material related to a lawsuit. eom

[BrotherBuzz]

53. So what happens to the AP lawsuit?

[struggle4progress]

130. Maybe somebody else knows. I hope AP kicks and screams. eom

[Judi Lynn]

54. Maybe the anthrax murders investigators will be assigned to delve into

this inscrutible mystery as well!

I think we can trust them, and that fine Mr. _Bush.




Shaking his bon-bon.

[SammyWinstonJack]

144. ROTFLMAO!

That pic of * is too hilarious! What a goofy looking b*st*rd! Ya just know he's thinking, "How cool am I!, Come on! someone tell me I'm cool!" :evilgrin:

[Pachamama]

55. Well, well, now aint' that convenient? Coincidence? I think not....

Why can't I say that I'm surprised...

Mofo's

:grr:

[Pachamama]

56. No wouldn't it be cool if Michael Moore has a copy!!!! Stay tuned....

...boy, I'd love that, but probably Bu$h Co took good care in their destruction....

[PaDUer]

155. Didn't MM say he has a copy

that he got long ago in the movie?

[Pachamama]

161. I just figured he was referring to the doc he showed, but I hope it's the

...AWOL Enchilada.....

:)

[truthspeaker]

58. 1997 is when Lt. Col. Bill Burkett says he saw Bush's records in the trash

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/02/12/elec04.prez.bush.texas.records/

A former officer in the Texas National Guard said Thursday he once overheard a conversation in which there was a request to sanitize President Bush's Guard records during Bush's tenure as Texas governor.

He said that in 1997 he overheard Joe Allbaugh -- who was Bush's chief of staff at the time -- ask Guard commander Maj. Gen. Daniel James to gather Bush's files and "make sure there wasn't anything there that would embarrass the governor."

"But I also saw at the edge of that table a roughly 15-gallon, old metal waste can. At the top of that were several pages, 20 to 40 pages approximately," Burkett said on CNN's "Paula Zahn Now."

[jobycom]

136. Yes, it was

http://www.onlinejournal.com/bush/110400Starr-Conover/110400starr-conover.html

Bill Burkett, a former lieutenant colonel in the Guard, said, “As the State Plans Officer for the Texas National Guard, I was on full-time duty at Camp Mabry when Dan Bartlett was cleansing the George W Bush file prior to G.W.'s presidential announcement. For most soldiers at Camp Mabry, this was a generally known event. The archives were closely scrutinized to make sure that the Bush autobiography plans and the record did not directly contradict each other. In essence it was the script of the autobiography which Dan Bartlett and his small team used to scrub a file to be released. This effort was further involved by General Daniel James and Chief of Staff William W. Goodwin at Camp Mabry.”

Burkett stated, “I knew one person who worked within the records scrub who commented to me, while at the smoke area, that the Bush files really showed some problems with his ‘blue-blood service record.’”

[Kinkistyle]

59. The dog ate it!

I knew we shouldn't have left it out on the desk, not Sparky's gone and eaten the President's military record!

[Tight_rope]

60. Not surprised and not stupid either!......n/t

[Rex]

61. The more these goons do things like this, the more people will

vote AGAINST Bush/Cheney. Even simpletons GET IT - and don't seem to like the dishonesty on display by the BFEE.

Keep it up Bush Goons! You're helping Kerry, and I salute you for it!

[radfringe]

62. on the other hand

if the records were destroyed -- bush* can't prove he was there

sooooo the "rumors" will continue

meanwhile -- why hasn't anyone come forward to say that they saw him?
if he was there - someone must have seen him. To the best of my knowledge Cheney wasn't there so there wasn't anyone for bush* to hide behind.

what about snapshots? When my dad was in the guards - he took lots of pictures of guys he served with -- you would think there would have been at least one guy with a camera taking snapshots...

[llmart]

146. You are so right.

Simple. My husband was in the National Guard at the same time and we have a photo album with about 25 pictures of him with his company, at the base, with me on a visit to the base, etc. etc. etc. You'd think he could scare up one of those at least. This is so transparent it's laughable (but I'm not laughing). I can't believe there's anyone left who would believe anything these idiots say any more.

[drfemoe]

63. If only ..

we could destroy the record of his pResidency!!!

Make that disappear, PLEASE!!

[Manix]

64. ..How long after KKKarl Rove's call did it happen?

[psychopomp]

65. I don't understand the "LOL" posts

This isn't even close to being funny. This BS should have every thinking person in the United States in an uproar! There is no limit to the depths these liars will go!

[Disturbed]

66. 2,000 pages of Detainee torture.

The DOD forgot to copy them for Congress. Two months later...they still have not been delivered. No one in Congress can send someone over to get them?

[psychopomp]

72. Disturbing, to be sure

I hadn't known about that... There's no end to the obfuscations and stalling!

[Hoping4Change]

103. The LOL's indicate "gallow's humour". A type of humour

prevelant in the old Soviet Union when the public was persistently handed unbelievable lies which they, the public, were supposed to accept as truth. The gallow's humour developed as a coping mechanism as there was nothing the public could do to counter the lies.

[shanti]

106. listen

if you don't laugh, you'll cry...it IS a travesty and i don't think people are making light of it.

[Swamp Rat]

68. AWOL was snorting cocaine and doing community service back in those days

Now, Bush&Co cannot provide real evidence that Chimp wasn't fucking up between 1972 and 1973.

[coeur_de_lion]

69. ooooooops! I got my mother's service record from 1952 with no problem

How can they think we'll buy this? Inadvertently my a**.

Next the records of the search for WMD in Iraq will inadvertently be destroyed.

* also inadvertently got almost 900 of our boys and over 10,000 Iraqi citizens killed in Iraq. Oops!

[dumpster_baby]

70. Probably a preemptive strike against a whistleblower

Some underling probably copied them and will release them anonymously sometime before the election. A lotta people hate Bush, and they know it.

[eleonora]

71. this is the funniest piece of news I've seen in a long time LOL

"American citizens, you are boobs."

[devinsgram]

73. I think the word is conveniently, not inadvertently.

Have they no shame at all. Just pathetic.

[OneTwentyoNine]

76. Ok,if thats what our Leaders say then its time to move on.....

What the HELL kind of BS is this?? Holy crap,every piece of evidence of Clinton and his cock are there for the World to see but Chimps Military record vanishes??? This is SO fucking laughable.....

David

[Roon]

78. What a load of CRAP!!

On the other hand, why are we so surprised?

[dusty64]

79. Guilty then.

I am SO sick of their fucking bullshit, and even more sick of the "opposition" letting them do it.

[DoYouEverWonder]

80. You would think after all the hoppla about Bu$h being AWOL

he'd be able to come up with something or someone who could prove he really did fulfill his duty by now?

Instead, the best he could come up with was a couple do dental appointments? Give me a break, please.

BUSH=AWOL

[arwalden]

81. "Inadvertently" my-hairy-ass! Not bloody likely...

this has Rove written all over it.

-- Allen

[bitchkitty]

82. Whoops! That's all, folks!

Unless of course someone from Bush's unit steps forward with a bombshell. Not very likely though, his two commanding officers are both dead and the names of the men in his unit aren't published (anywhere that I can find).

[wicket]

83. How convieeeeeenent.

[Stephanie]

84. Didn't the AP just sue for the records?

That's why they destroyed them now.

[peekaloo]

111. yep. Funny how these things happen.

:mad:

[Magleetis]

85. Is there no end

to the lies and deceit. Honesty and integrity? Our Government is a joke.

[AirAmFan]

86. Dubya's 'hit a TRIFECTA' of document loss! Remember Bartlett's TX AWOL 'scrub'?

One might be tempted to believe Dubya's military records were "lost" ONCE. But TWICE? A third mysterious occurrence was a change in his Texas driver license number after he became Governor, making it almost impossible to trace his DUI in Maine.

Today's Times story notes that WH communications office czar Dan Bartlett failed to return two of their phone calls. They weren't so vigilant four years ago.

During the 2000 campaign, the Times enabled Dubya to escape accountability for not serving his entire Guard term, according to a Boston Globe reporter.

In his Bush campaign bio "Is Our Children Learning", Paul Begala implies that Bartlett "made his bones" in the Bush mob by "scrubbing" bound Texas National Guard archives mentioning Dubya (see link below). It will be interesting to see how Scott McClellan handles questions about this during the next briefing with the White House Press Corpse (thanks to LittleApple81 for this term) He ought to call on Bartlett to answer them. For Bartlett, if Begala and others who repeated this story are to be believed, the answers would be direct lies about his own behavior, rather than the usual lies about what others in the maladministration did or did not do.

Begala paints a picture of a Texas governor using his staff systematically to wipe his record with Texas agencies clean. Anything that might have hindered political advancement had to go. The informant for the Texas National Guard records scrub story is one "Lt Colonel Bill Burkett".

See a Salon story archived at http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/020904A.shtml

"Bush's Missing Year, By Eric Boehlert

Salon.com Thursday 05 February 2004

...The Times finally addressed the issue on July 22, two months after the Globe exposé was published. The Times article, written by Jo Thomas, ... went on to write, "National Guard records provided by the Guard and by the Bush campaign indicate he did serve on Nov. 29, 1972, after the election. These records also show a gap in service from that time to the previous May. Mr. Bush says he made up for the lost time in subsequent months, and guard records show he received credit for having performed all the required service."

On Oct. 31, the Boston Globe published another damning story, suggesting Bush failed to serve -- in fact, did not even show up for duty-- during the final 18 months of his commitment. The Times' Thomas quickly wrote, "A review of records by The New York Times indicated that some of those concerns may be unfounded." Contradicting the Globe's account of Bush war service, the paper reported that Bush spokesman Dan Bartlett "pointed to a document in Mr. Bush's military records that showed credit for four days of duty ending Nov. 29 and for eight days ending Dec. 14, 1972, and, after he moved back to Houston, on dates in January, April and May."

The document cited by the Times is apparently the mysterious torn paper that appeared in Bush's records in 2000. That document, a "Statement of Points Earned," tracks when guardsmen have served, and whether they have fulfilled their annual duty. It contains references to "29" and "14" and other numbers whose meaning is not clear. The Times did not inform its readers that the document is badly torn, undated, and unsigned; does not have Bush's name on it (just a wayward "W"); and has a redacted Social Security number. "The Times got spun by Dan Bartlett," Robinson at the Globe told Salon. He and others note that if the documents provided by the Bush campaign proved he did Guard duty upon returning to Houston in January and April of 1973, then why, on Bush's annual effectiveness report signed by two superiors, did it say, "Lt. Bush has not been observed at this unit during the period of the report," which covered the dates between May 1, 1972, and April 30, 1973?"

[yelladawg]

89. DIdn't they turn over all the records?

Just a few months ago, didn't they say all of his records were released? Why didn't they say some had been destroyed?

[AirAmFan]

101. Record "scrubbing" could be a career specialty for Dubya's aide Dan Bartlett,

who followed his boss from Texas to DC.

After apparently cleaning up potentially embarrassing records in Texas, using his credentials as the Governor's man, it's possible Bartlett could have turned in a repeat performance in DC. As White House communications director, Bartlett ranks higher up among Dubya's staff than he did when Bush was only a governor.

On the other hand, it's possible that the events reported today truly ARE a lucky accident for Dubya. In any case, I find it impossible to believe that BOTH the Texas and the DOD "document losses" were coincidental.

[leesa]

114. Exactly. They simply cannot keep their lies straight.

And the Knuckle-draggers continue to buy their BS. Amazing!

[pathansen]

90. Just like his criminal records got destroyed and while Bush was Governor

A very suspicious pattern.

[Beetwasher]

91. Oh STOP IT! CUT IT OUT! YER KILLIN' ME!!

You have GOT to be fucking kidding!!!

This story could doom him. Nobody, and mean NO ONE is stupid enough to believe this!

[underpants]

92. BUT they still have Benedict Arnold's and Humphrey Bogart's

The military records of Benedict Arnold were on display at a ceremonial signing authorizing the archival preservation of Official Military Personel Files (OMPF) for 56 million veterans who served since 1885, Thursday, July 8, 2004, at the National Archives Building in Washington. (AP Photo/Adele Starr)


The military records of Humphrey Bogart on display along with the records of several other notable American verterans at a ceremonial signing authorizing the archival preservation of Official Military Personnel Files (OMPF), Thursday, July 8, 2004, at the National Archive Building in Washington. (AP Photo/Adele Starr)

[guruant]

93. Bush...

He was protecting America's shores from the Vietcong.

[mistertrickster]

94. Don't you get paid when you serve in the Guard? And wouldn't that

pay show up on tax and social security records?

I don't know how somebody can work for pay in the US and not be able to prove it--SS sends me a "summary of contibuions" that shows all the taxable income I've made since I started working for pay when I was 14 years old.

[InkAddict]

95. Things that make you go hmmmm.....

Well....okay......my folks' marriage also seems to be unrecorded and "missing" from a particular county's database as well. I suppose it could have been bypassed in data entry or the preacher just forgot to turn it in to the county...or a license just slipped their lovestruck minds or....Is that why Grandma didn't attend??? Did they really go to Niagara Falls to honeymoon? Did uncle really help Mom into her girdle on that hot sticky day??? Or has the record gone "missing" to protect a spook's privacy. Didn't know one could "op out" of public info sharing.

Hmmm....the things we thought we knew...or could learn...

Just why didn't that Col. go dumpster diving for *'s records and hang the Private who threw them out "inadvertently?" He could have received a medal for saving the nation, whoops, a missed opportunity to show rank or was it his orderto pitch them out??? Just how far in advance was all this crapola planned??? Shame, shame, shame!!!

[Catfight]

97. Bush is a loser, liar and lame duck deserter. I hope Kerry is all

over this one. How can Repugs stand this loser as their front man? He has zero integrity, zero honesty and has more excuses than any human I've ever heard. Bush is a big ZERO!

[bushisanidiot]

98. Hmm.. Incriminating Evidence CONVENIENTLY Destroyed.

how fucking STOOOOPID does the RNC think americans are??

[RedEarth]

104. GUARDGATE.....Nixon re-visited......

Another example of how corrupt this admin is and to what extent they will go to lie to the American people.....

[Q]

105. Just another...uh...coincidence.

- Don't be a 'soreloserman'...shut up, move on and get over it.

- Bush* makes Nixon look like a boy scout.

[DainBramaged]

107. LIAR LIAR LIAR LIAR, Meet the Press Feb. 9th

Meet the Press Transcript for Feb. 8th
Guest: President George W. Bush


President Bush: Political season is here. I was — I served in the National Guard. I flew F-102 aircraft. I got an honorable discharge. I've heard this — I've heard this ever since I started running for office. I — I put in my time, proudly so.

I would be careful to not denigrate the Guard. It's fine to go after me, which I expect the other side will do. I wouldn't denigrate service to the Guard, though, and the reason I wouldn't, is because there are a lot of really fine people who have served in the National Guard and who are serving in the National Guard today in Iraq.

Russert: The Boston Globe and the Associated Press have gone through some of the records and said there’s no evidence that you reported to duty in Alabama during the summer and fall of 1972.

President Bush: Yeah, they’re — they're just wrong. There may be no evidence, but I did report; otherwise, I wouldn't have been honorably discharged. In other words, you don't just say "I did something" without there being verification. Military doesn't work that way. I got an honorable discharge, and I did show up in Alabama.

Russert: You did — were allowed to leave eight months before your term expired. Was there a reason?

President Bush: Right. Well, I was going to Harvard Business School and worked it out with the military.

Russert: When allegations were made about John McCain or Wesley Clark on their military records, they opened up their entire files. Would you agree to do that?

President Bush: Yeah. Listen, these files — I mean, people have been looking for these files for a long period of time, trust me, and starting in the 1994 campaign for governor. And I can assure you in the year 2000 people were looking for those files as well. Probably you were. And — absolutely. I mean, I —

Russert: But you would allow pay stubs, tax records, anything to show that you were serving during that period?

President Bush: Yeah. If we still have them, but I — you know, the records are kept in Colorado, as I understand, and they scoured the records.

And I'm just telling you, I did my duty, and it's politics, you know, to kind of ascribe all kinds of motives to me. But I have been through it before. I'm used to it. What I don't like is when people say serving in the Guard is — is — may not be a true service.

Russert: But you authorize the release of everything to settle this?

President Bush: Yes, absolutely.

We did so in 2000, by the way.

LIAR

[Whoa_Nelly]

131. Now, wait a gosh-darn minute!

Weren't there previous news reports that Bush's payroll records PROVED he had been active in the service??? I remember reading those articles when the hoopla began when questioning FratBoy's military records.
Am heading to google to check it out...meanwhile, anyone have those article links?

on edit:
Some links:
http://www.awolbush.com/kerry-vs-bush.asp

AND

http://www.factcheck.org/MiscReports.aspx?docID=142
<snip>
And in fact, Bush was at Dannelly Air National Guard base in Montgomery as late as Jan. 6, 1973, according to a document released by the White House Feb. 11. The document is a record of a dental examination of Bush on that date. The payroll records released two days earlier show Bush received pay and credit for service for Jan. 6 and for five other days closely clustered between Jan. 4 and Jan. 10.

AND

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/2/10/134542.shtml

<snip>
WASHINGTON – The White House, facing election-year questions about President Bush's military service, released pay records and other information Tuesday that it said supports Bush's assertion that he fulfilled his duty as a member of the Air National Guard during the Vietnam War.
The material included annual retirement point summaries and pay records to show that Bush served.

[bleedingedge]

109. I need some help understanding this (No, seriously)

Please forgive if the answers to the following are in the article. It's a subscribers-only article and I don't have a subscription to NYT.

How do they know Dubya's were among those destroyed? So they documented *which* records were destroyed (how the F* do they know?) but not *what was on those records*? Makes no sense to me. I need some help understanding how they know Dubya's records happened to be in that unfortunate batch.

If you have random information (service records) and half of it goes bye bye, you can see that half is gone because the overall quantity is reduced but how in hell do you actually know *which ones* disappeared?

I don't get it. Someone with military insider type knowledge, please help me out.

In reality, aren't they actually saying is "There's a gap in Dubya's records and we can't explain it. Now, if just so happens that some records were destroyed for that period, so we assume..."

This is totally insidious because it says, between the lines, *WE KNOW HIS RECORDS WERE THERE* when in fact maybe there weren't any in the first place.

How far into false assumption land have I strayed on this?

[livetohike]

112. Lynn Cullen is discussing this right now n/t

[Rufus T. Firefly]

113. Huh. It happened 7-8 years ago.

We just forgot to mention it. Oh, and it wasn't just his records, because that would look too obvious - we made sure tht a few others were "oopsied."

[Toucano]

165. Any word who the others were?

It would not suprise me if they were not random, but cohorts.

[Triana]

115. even monica...

...wouldn't swallow that!

[Broward]

116. W's Missing Documents (WMD)

The new WMD. Problem is that most people will probably believe this nonsense.

[liberalpress]

117. FLASH! This just in...

President Bush blames his dog for the disappearance of his military records.

"Unfortunately," said Mr. Bush, "I can't show incontrovertible proof of the Medal of Honor I won for liberating Iraqi... I mean Vietnamese civillians from their evil dictator, because my dog ate the records back in 1997."

When reporters pointed out that his dog was ony 4 years old, the president said, "God works in mysterious ways"

[DainBramaged]

118. And TODAY the Senate releases the intelligence report

What a great way to slip this under the radar. What scumbags.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

119. He's the luckiest boy in the whole wide world! n/t

[sui generis]

120. Maybe now is the time

to find out WHO was the incompetent idiot doing the microfiche "backups". Why don't we subpoena that person and find out what the events of that day were. I'm sure if we put enough pressure on the little guys someone will fold. Did he or she come back from a lunch break only to find that acetone had accidentally been spilled in a box of microfiche? gollee. It's time to grand jury this -

[stubertmcfly]

121. in best dr. evil voice...

....rrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiggggghhhht.

[jeanmarc]

122. They are so corrupt, so evil and so 'transparent'

Block the release of public records and when you can't, destroy them. This is a junta of lowrent vicious jackals. The only thing they understand is equal and opposite force. The media needs to get it's act together. We have 1000 soldier deaths thanks to these idiots. At least 5000 maimed for life. I think we need to picket the media centers. Shut them down. Don't let them into work.

[Geo55]

123. No , No....really...

The "inexperienced" archivist thought because it was "microfilm" , that it should be "conditioned" in the "microwave"....really ! ,
simple mistake.

[Ganja Ninja]

124. All they could save was his Honorable Discharge and

the rest was lost. Does that sound right?

He's a f**king Deserter and he should be called that to his face every day that he fails to produce his records.

[TEXASYANKEE]

125. If I'm reading this article correctly ....

There *are* medical records from that time frame, but they can't be released due to privilege. If these medical files prove that Bush was in Alabama, why wouldn't he release them? (Well, I think I know why -- they prove he was grounded for failing to take a physical.) Will anyone in the media ask the WH for permission to release the medical files? If not, it makes it look even worse (if that's possible) for Crusader Bunnypants.

[Coventina]

126. I'm SHOCKED! Shocked I tell ya!

:eyes:

Sorry, I know 100 people have already said it on this thread, but I couldn't resist.

[mainer]

127. This makes me think the records were far more damaging than we think

Destroying records? That's a huge, huge step. If those records show only that he didn't show up for duty, then he probably could have survived those revelations. Now I'm wondering if there was something a lot worse on those missing records than we realize -- and that they had no choice but to destroy them.

[Geo55]

129. Like...

piloting a USAF plane while intoxicated ?....hmmm speculation runs rampent in one's mind.

[lordwhorfin]

148. Lukiak

In looking through Paul Lukiak's specualtive but fascinating analysis about the whole history of AWOL, I think this further 'disappearing' of records underscores his central thesis:

Bush was actually, for a short time, separated from service and subject to immediate call-up. He was classified a deserter, did not report for induction, and then . . . magically had his reserve status and title changed in ways that throughly condradict USAF procedure. Lukiak is obviously speculating, as he admits: there are too many gaps in Bush's record. Paul does a great job of working inductively, however, and his conclusions, if true, would be really damning.

As he says, all questions flow to and from the missing physical exam.

http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2004_06_27_dneiwert_archive.html#108856709294770486

[wurzel]

128. Just how corrupt have our institutions become under Bush?

Everywhere you look there is: secrecy, lies, destruction of files, intimidation, cover-up, character assassination, perversion of legal process etc at a level that surely must be historic. People like me, even when Bush was "elected", thought , well how much harm can he do in four years? The answer seems to be an incredible amount.

[eek]

133. If we aren't calling/writing media about this we are just blowing

smoke outta our collective ass.

Here is one place with contacts for various media. I('m sure there are other resources.
http://causenet.commoncause.org

If each of us calls or writes even one media outlet then we'll make a decent splash.
Remember that the AP lawsuit came up in part because of We the People hollering.

Let's not just sit here and bitch today
Ya with me?!?!!!!

[Qutzupalotl]

141. Here is a full list of media contacts.

Make some noise, people.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=106x8816

[wurzel]

143. Don't you think the media can afford to ignore us?

The media seems to be more a function of sponsorship than readership. As long as they make "profits" they couldn't care less what they print or show. And their profits come corporate America who couldn't care less about "news". It seems to me you are relying on the sense of shame of the shameless. The only way to change things is through legislation like the old "fair and balance" laws.

[drfemoe]

160. Haven't seen very much

good legislation in awhile. I just saw f911 today. It's a concerted effort to control The People. A reverse type government than The People controlling the government. Everything is upside down. It just boggles my mind.

[TankLV]

132. So, EVERYTHING we claim about AWOL is TRUE!

They can't prove otherwise.

He's an AWOL, coke snorting, DESERTER!

Let them try to prove otherwise!

As an aside - does anyone else who served at that time, or with this SOB have their records?

I'd like to know who all's records were "lost".

Or, is it as we are correct to assume, only bunkerboy's?

[TankLV]

149. Also - gotta look at the questions being asked and the answers given.

"No back-up paper copies could be found".

Not "no more records of any kind" or "no other copies of anyting" or "no more records"

Are there other COPIES someplace else?

Are there other ORIGINALS someplace else?

Is there any other information that COULD BE FOUND?

"There are no plans on my desk to invade Iraq."

Okey dokey, then.

Are there any on the floor? or on the bureau behind, next to, the desk? In the next room? Another building? In a secret memo?

Are there any plans at all?

GOTTA ASK THE RIGHT QUESTIONS TO GET THE RIGHT ANSWERS!

[Whoa_Nelly]

135. It's all a LIE! WH used * payroll records to substantiate service

See my post #131 for links to articles re: * payroll proving service.

[Raster]

147. so, Angel, are you saying gee-dubya did serve..

...has the records to prove it and nothing is untoward about all this?

[Whoa_Nelly]

151. 'Xactly!

however, how much time he actually was present,(physically and/or mentally), is another question...lol :eyes:

The links I posted in post #131 show the WH DID have the payroll records, so no way were these "destroyed" back in the mid-90s.
Fie on you, Mr. Chimp! Hah!

[jobycom]

137. Looks like someone else was listening to Lt Burkett

“In answer to Senator Kerrey's comments, finding the answer to this issue is very simple. The Bush campaign staff can simply provide the pay records and detailed retirement points records for Lieutenant Bush. Until that is done, everything else is purely speculation as to when and where George W. Bush was during his obligation period."

http://www.onlinejournal.com/bush/110400Starr-Conover/110400starr-conover.html

[sundog]

138. this is friggin sick

doesn't really make me want to laugh though... and still the media will give Kerry/Edwards a harder time...

Just wrong, really, really wrong... makes my stomach turn... :(

[mountainvue]

140. Who else's records

were destroyed? I want names.

[JustCarbon]

142. hmmmm

I wonder why they were destroyed...

Maybe because he was too busy smoking crack.

[Gregorian]

145. Are these records even important? We have eye witnesses

He was not there. What difference to missing records have to do with being AWOL? If we can't prove that he was awol, without delving into the details, then we are in much bigger trouble than being at the mercy of "missing" files.

[rob-ok-vin]

152. 5600 just recalled

I bet the 5600 just recalled wish thier records were destroyed

[Endangered Specie]

153. OOPS wrong pedal!

hmm, thats a damn shame.

[complain jane]

154. Absolutely amazing,

these scumbags are absolutely outrageous! How stupid do these assholes think we are??!? Stupid enough to let him get away with this, I guess.

[kayell]

156. New Evidence! Pictures of the actual microfilm destruction!

[scarface2004]

157. isn t that conveeeeeeeeenient!!!

go ef yourself george!!

[Hailtothechimp]

162. This is where John Edwards comes in handy.

You just know that corporations or doctors or other similar defendants have tried to do this to him in litigation. And you also just know that Edwards turned this around on them and made them look really, really bad in front of a jury. I fully expect he will do this with the "destroyed" military records, the "secret" task force meetings, the "classified" sections of the 9/11 report, and any other hidden secrets. He didn't make his millions by being a slouch.

[NNN0LHI]

163. This thread is getting very long. Should someone start another maybe? n/t

[Moderator]

166. Please continue discussion here, thanks

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x680552