Dean Appeals to Nader to End Bid

[Blackaxe]

Howard Dean argued, flattered, cajoled — all to no avail. In a lively radio debate Friday, the former Democratic presidential candidate tried to get Ralph Nader to abandon his long-shot White House bid. Nader, the man Democrats blame for George W. Bush's election in 2000, declined and vowed to continue his independent campaign.

"Ralph, I think you're being disingenuous about your candidacy this year, and let me tell you why," Dean began at start of the debate. "Forty-six percent of all your signatures to get you on the Arizona ballot turned out to be Republican supporters. You accepted the support of a right-wing fanatic Republican group that's anti-gay in order to help you get on the ballot in Oregon."

"This is not going to help the progressive cause in America," said Dean, who has been urging his supporters to stay within the party and vote for Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry.

Nader quickly dismissed the criticism, telling the studio audience that Dean was engaging "in a desperate attempt to smear our campaign."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&ncid=703&e=7&u=/ap/20040709/ap_on_el_pr/nader_dean

[HuckleB]

1. So Dean tells the truth and Ralph denies and spins it without proof?

Oh, he has gone over to the dark side. I think the guy actually wants Bush to win this election. There is no other logical explanation for his behavior, outside of mental illness, and I'm not discounting that. (No. I actually do not say that in jest. I wouldn't do that. It's a very real concern of mine when it comes to Nader at this time in his life.)

[Spangle]

15. He wanted Bush to win in 2000

I'm sure he still backs him. He even made the mistake of saying publicly in 2000 that he wanted Bush to win over Gore.

He accepts everything from the Republicans knowing WHY they are giving it to him. He is accepting his job and knows it is a way to help Bush this election. Same as 2000.

I'm glad the greens are not going with him this time.

[charlyvi]

16. I think he wants * to win as well

Because he needs someone really bad to make himself look really good. Also, us Dems have really pissed him off by not saying "you go Ralphie, go get them votes!!!"

I think he has this wierd messianic Armageddon fantasy--he wants the country to fall apart so he can swoop down and save us, all the while saying I told you so.

He's CRAZY AS HELL

[BadGimp]

2. DENIAL is the most powerful of drugs

It completely obsures ones vision.

[roguevalley]

Love Dr. Dean. Nice try and thank you. I don't think you're the kind of

doctor that Ralph needs however. :(

[roguevalley]

4. Love Dr. Dean. Nice try and thank you. I don't think you're the kind of

doctor that Ralph needs however. :(

[roguevalley]

5. Love Dr. Dean. Nice try and thank you. I don't think you're the kind of

doctor that Ralph needs however. :(

[lancdem]

3. How is pointing out that Nader's getting support from Repukes

a "smear"??? The man's lost it.

[ScreamingMeemie]

6. That and the GOP pledging to get him the 30,000 sigs he needs to be

on Michigan's ballot about does it for me. He has lost any shred of decency or honesty I might have thought he posessed. I hope he enjoys his last 15 minutes of fame. :eyes:

[Tina H]

7. Did Dean indicate whether the Party . . .

would offer any concessions to its left side?

[creeksneakers2]

9. The party makes concessions to the left all the time

Kerry even met with Nader.

[Tina H]

10. and the concessions were?

no military bases in Iraq?

some measures (eg, antitrust, nationalized helth care, repeal of trade agreements) against the tyranny of big business?

Or was it just a meaningless chat?

[Pastiche423]

13. What concessions have been made to the left?

The only concessions I've seen made by kerry have been in the opposite direction.

[sendero]

8. "long shot"?

Calling Nader's bid a long shot would be like calling the likelihood I'll "wed" Tyra Banks soon a long shot.

It's not a long shot, it simply is not going to happen, period. :)

[livinginphotographs]

11. Exactly!

That's a perfect analogy. Voting for Nader would be like you turning down every woman you ever met in the future by saying, "Sorry, I'm going to marry Tyra Banks."

[livinginphotographs]

12. "...and let me tell you why."

That's why I was first attracted to Dean; instead of doing the usual political b.s. of skipping around the point, he comes right out and makes his point.

In every english/writing/journalism class I've ever taken, I've come out with this rule for debating: state your thesis, then state your support for that thesis. I've rarely seen anyone but Dean debate like this, and it's refreshing.

[Zomby Woof]

14. good for Dean!

I am serious, and at this point, not concerned with who takes my word for it.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

21. My sentiments exactly

Dean did great! Ralph is a loser.

[bleowheels]

17. Reminds me of the movie, "The Cooler"

I recently watched the movie, "The Cooler". There's is a scene where someone (sorry, I cannot remember the character) tells a tale of how lions (the king of the jungle lions) cannot admit when their "time" is up and ultimately succumb to the young lion wishing to be the new king of the jungle. This reminds me of Ralph Nader. Ralph was once king of the jungle for a certain group of voters. Now, Ralph won't admit that his "time" is up. "Ralph, Please I beg You." "It's time." Yes, Ralph has been a great lion for this country. But, if Ralph is too stubborn to admit it's time to move on, the wrong lion may prevail.

[Pachamama]

18. Poor Ralph...he's got "Deanie Envy"....

Howard Dean is everything that Nader wishes he could be and will never be....

By the way - Welcome to the DU! We always love to have more freethinking newbies join the fun! :hi: :toast:

[wyethwire]

24. Dean-is envy. ha/ha

[JackDragna]

23. Move on?

When the party supposedly representing liberal interests introduces a campaign platform with strongly pro-Israel wording? When the party supposedly representing liberal interests is controlled by people who supported the war in Iraq? When the party supposedly representing liberal interests had many of its members in Congress support the Patriot Act? When the party supposedly representing liberal interests had many of its members in Congress recite the Pledge of Allegiance in a chant-like manner because an atheist dared defy the public establishment of religion? Ralph Nader is more relevant than ever. I'm still voting for Kerry, but this kind of screed against Nader smacks of the ravings of people who still blame him for Gore's 2000 loss.

[Hekate]

19. Dean was great to watch; Nader not so much

I like Howard Dean a lot: he'll make a very fine non-president. The fact that he reiterated my own theme song made it even better -- that is, we cannot afford to lose sight of the overarching goal, which is to get GWBush the hell out of Washington DC. Dr Dean also put into words the other tune I've been humming, which is to not let the "perfect" drive out the "good" -- that is, just because Kerry doesn't walk on
water it doesn't make him equivalent to Bush. We have to get rid of Bush because his presence guarantees the destruction of so much we hold dear (like the environment and our Constitutional freedoms) -- Kerry (who has a very liberal voting record) we can work on once we get him in office.

Ralph Nader was having none of this. He quoted statements Dean made about Kerry during the campaign last year, and wouldn't agree that now is the time for unity and teamwork. He rejected Dean's invitation to work with the Democrats to defeat Bush.

Nader is a sad and toxic figure by now. He makes it plain that if he can't get his own way he'll just disrupt things for everyone else, even if it means destroying what he claims to want the most. This is a sad way to end what was once a brilliant career as a consumer advocate.

Hekate

[Zech Marquis]

20. Nader looks like a minion for Crashcart Cheney

with his one eyed snear and creepy voice, not to mention his gladly acceptng help from the :puke: bastards in his vain efort to get on any ballot this fall. It's not gonna happen Nader, no way no how without a massive dirty trick feast from the freeps!

Besides Kerry and Edwards will be keepng a close watch on you buddy!

[al bupp]

22. As a former voter for Nader

After this performance, along w/ the piece in Salon I am now utterly and officially disgusted w/ the man, both as a person and a politician.

Although, I did so knowing Gore would carry my state of Vermont, I have to now say, in public, that I am truly sorry for ever having voted for him.

I still agree w/ much of his spiel about the overweening power of corporations. However, it's become clear he's in love w/ his own fame, and can little other reason for doing what he now is.

As they say, I would not vote for this guy for dog-catcher.

[revree]

25. God, I love that man...Howard, not Ralph

Wish Howard were running for prez...oh well, maybe next time...

[Strawman]

26. Ralph: Campaign for IRV, Proportional Representaion, vote for Kerry

To use actual debate lingo for a second, that's the counterplan that will allow for all the benefits of the Nader candidacy and avoid the disadvantages of a second Bush administration. Seems pretty simple to me. Nader's presidential campaign can't solve a single problem that he lists. At least with Kerry things would comparatively better over the next 4 years than with Bush. How can Nader honestly believe that he takes nearly as many votes away from the Republicans? They might vote for a know-nothing xenpophobic anti-free-trader like Pat Buchanan, but they aren't going to vote for a fair-trade advocate with a liberal social justice agenda like Nader. Does anyone really think the same people who are going into the booth to vote yes on anti-gay marriage referenda are going to vote for Nader because they're mad at the reckless fiscal policies of the president? Give me a break.

Sorry Ralph, you lose the link debate. Your campaign triggers the Bush disad and your plan to run for president solves for nothing. Dean's counterplan to do instant runoff voting first, vote for Kerry then you run for president after IRV is passed has a better chance of solving all the harms you cite and avoids the Bush disadvantage which might just be a nuke war disad if ol' Chimpy gets the itch to use tactical "nukular" weapons to fight "terra."

In my opinion, the better debating was done by: Howard Dean.