2/3rds of Guardsmen choose not to re-enlist

[trof]

And just last week I saw top pentagon brass and guard bureau brass saying how they weren't having any problems with enlistments and reenlistments. Yeah, right.
trof

Associated Press
July 13, 2004


JASPER, Ind. -- Almost two-thirds of Indiana National Guardsmen in a battalion that spent a year in Iraq chose not to re-enlist when their service time expired.

Over the past 21 months, the service contracts of 102 soldiers in the 1st Battalion of the 152nd Regiment expired. Of those, 32, or less than one-third, chose to re-enlist. The unit typically keeps 85 percent of its members, a sergeant in charge of retaining members said.

"That one big word, 'deployment,' has done more damage than anything," said Sgt. 1st Class Gary Love, who is in charge of convincing soldiers to stay.

"What killed us was the stop-loss," Love said. "There wasn't a whole lot we could do."

http://www.indystar.com/articles/0/162102-6840-102.html

[JHB]

1. People joint the Guard to serve, not to get jerked around...

...If there were a real national emergency going on, where everyone were making a sacrifice in some way, you'd never see this problem.

But the Bushies decided to treat them like chumps and stiff them with the bill for their half-assed neoconservative joyride in Iraq, and the result was predictable (AND predictED!).

"The eyes brimming with emotional tears at displays of patriotism and piety won't see how I'm looting the country and undermining our real defenses. I'm George W. Bush, and no way I'd approve such an honest view of my message"

[Mari333]

2. Yep, they arent re enlisting

My son wont re enlist (altho he told me some of the guys were taken to "get drunk" by their commanders and talked into re enlistment,) and my stepson, when he gets out of Iraq, wont re enlist.
Period.
Bush admin has single handedly destroyed the National Guard and Reserves. In one fell swoop, destroyed the Homeland Security infrastructure, destroyed lives, and morale..
so much for US safety..we have no one to blame but the morons in the White House.

[JHB]

8. Good luck to both lads...

...Hope they don't get caught in the stop-loss "draft".

[Mari333]

9. Oh the oldest almost did

DUers helped me keep him from being stop lossed. God bless DU.

[Eloriel]

27. And they're working real hard on destroying the reg. Army too

Hi, Mari!! :hi:

[saigon68]

3. AT LEAST THEY WON'T DIE LIKE DOGS

FOR AN OILY HALLIBURTON PROFIT DRIVEN IMMORAL WAR

[Wright Patman]

4. And the other one-third

are braindead.

[Ganja Ninja]

7. The other 1/3 are sitting in Walter Reed Hospital or too close to

retirement to get out now. Anyone that's looking at a long haul is getting out now while they still can.

[shoelace414]

5. why are repubs thought to be stong on defense?

[indepat]

20. Because they are willing to put extra hundreds of billions of dollars in

the coffers of the defense complex that Ike warned us about, they are willing to shoot first and ask questions later, and are willing to go to pre-emptive war on the whim of any Repuke President.

[kayell]

6. Oh yeah, we're ever so much safer with the repukes and * in charge

Shipping our national defense overseas to attack a country that not only had not done anything to us, but didn't have the ability to do anything. Then abusing our national defense so badly that they decide it just isn't worth it anymore.

:grr:

[MountainLaurel]

10. Color Me Surprised

NOT!

Even the less-informed of them -- who joined up so they could kill themselves some Ay-rabs after 9-11 -- must have some sense of self-preservation.

[trof]

11. I live on hurricane prone gulf coast.

Our local guard unit is now in Iraq, as are units from surrounding towns and a lot of Alabama.
If we get a hurricane, we're screwed in restoring services and aftermath cleanup.
And guess what? It appears to me this will be a long term problem.
When we finally do get the troops out, how many will rush to re-enlist? How many new recruits will think joining guard/reserves is a good idea? "Fool me once..."

[LiberalFighter]

16. Strategy

Need to write letters to your local papers alerting the public about this problem.

Detail how they provide a much needed support in emergency situations that the general public lacks on their own to do.

Contact everyone in the state to do this.

[louis-t]

26. thus creating an even stronger motive...

to reinstate the draft. I'm telling you, as much as they deny it, a vote for * is a vote for the draft and war without end.

[leesa]

12. But, of course, we are safer than we've ever been

Now that we no longer have a functional National Guard...I feel safe, don't you? Who will shoot the rioters in the streets?

[BrotherBuzz]

15. Those rioters in the streets...

Just may be ex national Guard and servicemen attempting to get some of their medical benefits restored. Go Figure.

[DBoon]

25. You mean like the 1932 Bonus March?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/macarthur/peopleevents/pandeAMEX89.html

Quoting:

when a band of jobless veterans, led by a former cannery worker named Walter W. Walters, began arriving in the capital in May, tensions were high. Calling themselves the "Bonus Expeditionary Forces," they demanded early payment of a bonus Congress had promised them for their service in World War I.

Army Chief of Staff MacArthur was convinced that the march was a communist conspiracy to undermine the government of the United States, and that "the movement was actually far deeper and more dangerous than an effort to secure funds from a nearly depleted federal treasury."

[BrotherBuzz]

29. Exactamundo!

Oh, and where was Eisenhower during this event? ;)

[happyslug]

31. He was MacArthur's Aide if I remember right.

While Patton lead the Calvary charge against the Bonus Army when it was suppressed.

I was right see: http://www.smithsonianmag.si.edu/smithsonian/issues03/feb03/bonus_army.html

[BrotherBuzz]

32. Whoa! Patton was indeed involved...

but the blame for the debacle rests entirely on MacArthur's shoulders for disobeying an order. Hey, it did help defeat Hoover and get FDR elected, though. Moral of the story: Don't screw with vetrans and vetrans benefits because you may win the battle, but you will loose the war - revenge is a bitch.

[happyslug]

33. What you say is true, the actual Order was MacArthur

But Patton was enthusiastic about going after those "Commies". Many of Patton's later problem with the Press During WWII can be traced to Newspaper men remembering how enthusiastic he was to attack the Bonus Army. Patton was even involved with a plan to intern US Citizens of Japanese Descent while he was stationed in Hawaii during the late 1930s.

Patton was a product of his time (the early 1900s) and his background (The Middle South, he was from Virginia). This colored his outlook for Commies was under every bed and had to be sniffed
out.
For Details see :
http://www.worldwar2history.info/North-Africa/Patton.html

One quote from the book sums up Patton:
"Prejudice defined Patton's outlook and his conduct. In 1932 he enthusiastically joined then-chief of staff Douglas MacArthur to flush "Communist" Bonus Army marchers from the capital, in the process unceremoniously ejecting from the marchers' encampment the ex-sergeant who had saved his life in France. As chief of army intelligence on Hawaii in 1936, he drew up lists of prominent Japanese-Americans to be seized as "hostages" on the outbreak of war. His anti-Semitism exceeded by a considerable margin the polite golf club standards of America between the wars. General Joseph Stilwell called Patton a "braggart," while George Marshall's wife publicly admonished Patton that his profanity and "outrageous" statements little became a man who aspired to general rank."

[amber dog democrat]

13. Well, then - Lets have press gangs !

If recruitment is off, and we have no draft, I think rounding up people and forcing them to serve is the next best alternative. Otherwise the terra-ists will have won !
Give them a shilling, sign the articles, and drink to the King Geroge W Bush !

To King George's health !

The King, God Bless Him !!!!

[trof]

22. God Bless the King! <WHACK!>

I like it.

[AndyTiedye]

14. It's Getting Drafty In Here! Somebody Close the War!

[ewagner]

28. THAT, MY FRIEND

is a BUMPER STICKER

[LiberalFighter]

17. Change the word deployment to something else.. that might help

[trof]

21. Great. How's "Supplemental Involuntary Patriotism"?

"Here, have a SIP."
"How many SIPpers we get this week?"

[Bandit]

18. This is exactly the reason Kerry wants to add forty thousand new soldiers

to the Active Duty Military. He wants to preserve the National Guard and Reserves. Apparently we are about forty thousand soldiers short and because of that National Guardsmen and Reserves have to be called up and deployed overseas instead of serving their home state that they signed up to do. We have been kicking Kerry around for his wanting more troops but I think it is essential.

[blindpig]

23. no

the answer is to decrease our overseas commitments. Ther's no good reason for our troops in Germany and Japan, and little for Korea. The size and structure of our armed forces reflect hegemony not defence. And of course getting out of Iraq as soon as the UN can step in.

[Lisa]

19. "one weekend a month"

Yeah, right. Bush and Co. should be sued for false advertising!


A Guardsman I know in the Northwest said that even before 2001, many people in his unit were deciding not to re-enlist because their employers weren't being supportive. He had almost clinched a job interview when the company, on finding out that he might be called out for disasters, decided that this made him "unreliable" -- and told him to his face. Other people came back from Guard tasks such as fixing a washed-out road in Alaska, only to be given their pink slips! What really irritates him is that many of those employers were affluent Republicans who made a big deal of hanging out the flag, making their employees wear patriotic colors, etc. after Sept 11th.

[happyslug]

30. Technically that is all illegal

Under Federal LAW your Employer can NOT fire you (or refuse to hire you) do to your membership in The Reserves or National Guard. Thus the above actions are Illegal.

Now to the practical part, first the US Army and National Guard will call the employer and tell him what he is doing is illegal, but if a Court Action has to be brought the Reservist/Guardsmen is generally on his own. Furthermore while the Employer can not fire you for being a member of the National Guard he does not have to arrange his employees schedules around a Reservist/Guardsmen Drill Dates and or annual training and/or actual call up. Thus the Employer could dock an Reservist/Guardsmen wages if the Reservist/Guardsmen is suppose to work the weekend and he can not do to his commitment for his weekend drill. The Employer is under NO requirement to set his employee's schedule to reflect a Reservist/Guardsmen drill schedule. If a work day falls on your Drill day, you lose a day of work and a day of wages. Happens all the time and with most Reservist/Guardsmen being young more often than not (Most of the "New" Jobs created over the last 20 years are retail or other jobs that require work doing the weekends).

Another problem is Annual training (Summer camp for you older ex-Reservist/Guardsmen). While it is illegal for an employer to require a Reservist/Guardsmen to take his vacation at the same time as he does his annual training, the employer does not have pay the Reservist/Guardsmen for the time Reservist/Guardsmen is doing his summer camp. What this causes is for the Reservist/Guardsmen to take his vacation as the same time as his Training just to keep his week to week income the same. It has been a problem for decades and Congress has refused to address the problem for employers do NOT want to incur these costs.

Finally under the Soldiers and Sailor's relief Act, an employer has to re-hire a Reservist/Guardsmen called out to duty BUT ONLY IF THAT JOB STILL EXISTS. If the position has been "eliminated" than the employer does NOT have to rehire the Reservist/Guardsmen. Companies over the last 20 years have gone through various reorganizations eliminating positions. Such reorganizations basically can kill the Right to reemployment.

Finally the Employer only has to keep the employee on, the Employer has no duty to cut out any resentment by a Reservist/Guardsmen's co-workers do to the perceived "privilege" a Reservist/Guardsmen gets by getting a weekend off work once a month (So the Reservist/Guardsmen can do his Drill Duty). This resentment may be worse than any actual action by the employer against the employee do to his Military obligation.

Please note most of the above applies to Reservist/Guardsmen NOT called up for active duty. The Call up have made this bad situation even worse and Congress has refused to address the problem.

Yes I was a National Guardsmen (1981-1990) and I saw ALL of the above problems and I did not see any real effort to address them even after Gulf War I in 1991 and I do not expect any improvements after this War. Employers do NOT want their employees to be loyal only to them, and you can NOT have than when the employee is a Reservist/Guardsmen.

[dbt]

24. GODDAMMIT, Sgt. Love! The stop-loss didn't kill you,

bu$h did! The motherfucker is committing MURDER in the name of the United States of America!

:nuke:
dbt