US fires back at China over Taiwan

[dArKeR]

By Charles Snyder
STAFF REPORTER IN WASHINGTON

The US on Wednesday rejected Chinese demands that Washington cut back on weapons sales and other cooperation with Taiwan, insisting that US policy had not changed in recent months.

State Department spokesman Richard Boucher made the comments in response to statements Tuesday by Chinese Embassy spokesman Sun Weide (???), who said that Beijing was "gravely concerned over the recent US moves on the Taiwan question."

"I don't know why one needs to talk about `recent US moves,'" Boucher said at his regular daily press briefing. "There's been no change in US policy regarding China and Taiwan."

US officials have repeatedly communicated the US' continuing Taiwan policy to China, Boucher said. National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice reiterated the policy during her meetings in Beijing last week with the top Chinese leadership, as did Secretary of State Colin Powell in a recent meeting in Indonesia with Chinese Foreign Minister Li Zhao-xing (???), Boucher said.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2004/07/16/2003179141

[still_one]

1. So what do you think would happen

if Taiwan declares independence?

I am pretty sure that China would then invade Taiwan, and though many people will not agree with me, I do not think the U.S. should risk nuclear war to come to Taiwan's defense...

A far better solution is to negotiate something like Hong Kong, anything else is suicide...

[mallard]

2. Ah-bian & Co are all very clear on the rules...

... which they are defintely subject to: there will be no such independence moves or declarations.

People from those crowds of Lien-Soong voters blocking the streets in front of the president's office right after the election (3/20) are not exactly caught by surprise here and now.

It was for reasons of domestic security, not the love of Lien Chang or wanting forced reunification that motivated the 'opposition'.

The current dynamic is not without opportunity for a totally Chinese solution. Time to factor out the US influence and sit down together: looking for a bargain basement deal.

The Taiwanese should be able to come through this as the heroes of all China; for being the ones to have successfully brought this island into the greater national territory (in the course of over three centuries).

Taiwan: a part of China(?) - sounds good to me. Could be worse.

Cut the deal short now, and Taipei gets one Xinhua News Agency office, two dozen of Beijing's friendliest state officers downtown, the common right to display both flags anywhere, anytime, and THAT'S IT!

There is zero need for hostility toward China from the Taiwan side - the people of Taiwan themselves are Chinese too.

It's Taiwan's easiest, safest and least expensive option to talk greater China at this time.

[Merlin]

3. Taiwan should talk Greater China Now??? No way!

Taiwan must continue to resist any incorporation into China until China has moved toward democracy. It will take decades. It may take centuries.

Ah Bian is forging the path for future leaders to follow: unyielding insistence that incorporation into China will only occur on terms favorable to continued Taiwanese freedom and democratic rule.

Hong Kong proves Beijing cannot be trusted and does not even understand democracy and freedom.

Taiwan must play the long game, the waiting game, the hold-out game. It's the only way to preserve personal and political freedom.

[jmcgowanjm]

4. The current USN manuevers are playing the short game

http://fairuse.1accesshost.com/news2/latimes224.htm

Update on posting below:
The CVN Lincoln is in Bremerton.
Noone knows where the CVN Carl Vinson is;
It was supposed to be in Bremerton by July 1
but is not.

Reports from the Associated Press and Bremerton papers
on May 15 indicate that the Navy has confirmed that the
Carl Vinson's deployment had been
extended.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1894410&mesg_id=1894410

So 7 carriers are in position in Western Pacific now
w/ 2 more carriers at sea elsewhere.

[jmcgowanjm]

5. And I talked to Lt JG Quartermaster on outfitting a Carrier

He served on the Ranger, 1/2 the size
of current Nimitz class.

This new 6+2 pulse carrier plan
will be impossible to implement.

I asked him if you could refit a carrier in 4 mths.

He said that would be impossible, 8 mths min.

Summer Pulse is a one off manuever.

[Merlin]

6. Agreed that Summer Pulse is sea sickness

Sounds like the red scare Neocon crowd is wagging the dog again (e.g. still).

[jmcgowanjm]

7. Hello Merlin-An article on Chinese Subs

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040716-123134-8152r.htm

[Merlin]

8. Wow! Thank you, jmcgowanjm. This should be a new thread, imo.

This is significant stuff. Explains the maneuvers I'd say.

[Jack_DeLeon]

10. The people of Taiwan should decide for themselves what they want...

they should not be forced to become part of China just because China is threatening them militarily.

[noonwitch]

9. As long as China is communist, the US should support Taiwan's independence

I don't think the chinese want a war with us over this. We should always support the right to freedom-prior to 9-11, the absolutely worst thing I have witnessed on the TV news is the slaughter of the protestors at Tiannamon Square. The chicoms just opened up fire from tanks on their own youth. They didn't even care that they were on international television. They should have lost their trade status over that.

We shouldn't be flying spy planes in their air space, but if the Navy wants to do legal manuevers in international waters to make it clear we are going to protect Taiwan, I have no problem with it.

Eventually, the people of China are going to revolt against the communists. There are just too many of them, religion is growing despite persecution (both christianity and falun gong type movements), and there is going to be a whole generation of men in a few years without enough females to go around. I don't think that communism will be able to stand up to the combined threat of those challenges, especially millions of hormone-crazed young men with no outlet for their horniness. Their society will implode.

[mallard]

11. It's easy to be idealistic in a peaceful, fair world...

... but these latest rumblings of change - like the unusual military deployments by both China and the US - do not bode well for people living through this stand-off for decades.

The idea is to preserve these existing territorial guardians in Taiwan - without making enemies where there needn't be conflict - by engaging in dialogue and closer cooperation on common interests.

The notion of an 'independent Taiwan' isn't the main issue right now. Heated rhetoric between Beijing and Washington is!

The Bush administration is plying pressure to make a major weapons sale. This is the core issue, and STILL, Taiwan is not in a position to bargain if they have no other choice but to make the purchase in order to extend US security coverage.

I'm saying this IS a point of opportunity for Taipei to put out the growing fire, save billions and eliminate the threat with friendly overtures to an influential regional power - one which can actually provide them with partnership rather than the threat of war.

This is not the morning of June 5th, 1989. This is a world lead by a country going through with a mjor unlawful invasion based on lies. We need to be realistic.

There are also those who argue that the US opposes a unified China because it might be too strong to take on as a future rival - while successive US governments have had Taiwan doing 'whatever it takes' with "their own fate" for the past 55 years.

I don't see this latest fray as being even that deep, though. Washington just wants those big money contracts NOW and arrogantly under-estimates the importance of Taiwan to Chinese all around the world - at a time when military invasion is hardly out of the question.

I'm seriously thinking of getting the heck out of here in the next week or so, at least until this doubled-up drill stuff has come and gone. So much for democratic ideals at ground level.