9 Killed in Truck Bomb Blast in Baghdad

[DoYouEverWonder]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=1&u=/ap/20040719/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

July 19, 2004

BAGHDAD, Iraq - A fuel truck sped toward a police station in southwest Baghdad and exploded as policemen waited for their assignments early Monday, killing at least nine people and wounding 57, Iraqi officials and witnesses said.

The white tanker came to within 500 feet of the two-story, fence-ringed station when it exploded at 8 a.m. local time, also damaging nearby mechanic and electrical workshops, witnesses said. Police are often targeted by insurgents for their association with Iraq's U.S.-backed government.

"We were all standing in a row, listening to our officer as he gave us our assignment for the day," said wounded policeman Mehdi Salah Abed Ali, 32, lying in a bed at al-Yarmuk hospital, a bandage around his leg.

"There were many policemen standing in the square when the tanker exploded," he said.

[DS1]

1. wwaaaaaaahooooooooo!!!!!

[saigon68]

6. "BRING EM ON" screeched the COWARDLY AWOL CHIMPANZEE

And---- "Bring It On" did the Iraqi Resistance.

[izzie]

2. But we are now safe.

George said so.

[SoCalDem]

3. BBC headline, almost seems to want more

[gristy]

4. This was the lead story on NPR when I woke up this morning

It seems that there is a bombing that leads their reporting every morning. Anne Garrels, NPR's Baghdad correspondents, sounded particularly resigned this morning. A few months ago a bombing like this, when reported on DU, would have elicited dozens if not hundreds of posts. Kerry is going to have his hands full. To do things right, he's going to need to

1. Double the number of troops in Iraq
2. Have the Iraq gov't declare martial law
3. Negotiate with the international communitiy, including Arab countries, to provide additional police and troops. To obtain their cooperation, the U.S./Kerry will have to give up some things. Oil, money, a player to be named later, whatever. Bush always wanted them to play for free.

[Aidoneus]

5. that is absolutely ridiculous | nt

[CWebster]

7. That's right

clamp down with an iron fist on Iraqis resisting the Iron fist.

[gasperc]

8. and HIGH-RANKING official at Iraq's Defence Ministry was shot dead

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,54...
Herald Sun

Iraqi minister shot dead

From correspondents in Baghdad
19jul04

A HIGH-RANKING official at Iraq's Defence Ministry was shot dead in a hail of bullets last night in Baghdad, a ministry spokesman said today.

"One of the director generals in the Ministry of Defence, Issam Jassem Kadhem, was assassinated at 10pm yesterday by unknown attackers who opened fire on him in the Saydia neighbourhood where he lives," spokesman Radhi Badr told AFP.
The killing occurred in the same area where a truck bomb exploded today, killing several people outside a police station.

..more..

[Halliburton]

9. Time for more airstrikes

In the residential areas of Fallujah! That is where these insurgents are hiding!

[Ms. Clio]

10. So what's the problem?

This used to happen all the time under Saddam--bombs blowing up in Baghdad daily, right? What a dangerous place to live.

Remember how we used to read about it and hear it on the news constantly?

Oh, wait.

It NEVER happened before the "regime change."

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

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[Ms. Clio]

13. Nice try, but no cigar

How about our puppet, Allawi? He uses mass executions to kill his opponents, too.

Edited to add some links:

Allawi shot prisoners in cold blood: witnesses

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2020655

US Media Kills Story that Iraqi PM Executed 6 Prisoners

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2020995

As for "mass graves," well, oddly enough:

400,000 mass graves in Iraq not correct - 5,000 is truer number

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2020911

[Ms. Clio]

14. Well, don't you have some links or something?

Tell me more about how the bombers used mass executions to kill their opponents.

And explain how today's bombers would be related to Saddam's former regime, exactly?

I didn't think so.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ms. Clio]

16. The U.S. has already killed more than 5,000 Iraqis

Why don't you tell me about the "rape rooms," now?

The insurgents are not "supporters of Saddam."


Try again.

Edited to add that the "serious questions" are about the inflated numbers!

Don't you have some links?

Prove your point with something other than assertions.

[Wacahootaman]

17. Just look and some of the targets of the car bombs

Who would be most likely to target Sheite clerics who were cooperating with the Americans? A carbomb took out their head honcho with about 75 of his followers last year.

Why has 90 percent of the carbombs happened in Sunni/Baathist strongholds?

I dont have a catalog of links on hand, just use common sense. For you to deny any of the carbombers are Baathist extremist is denial.

I dont see why this is such a sticking point with you.

[Ms. Clio]

18. Because it's not "Baathist extremists" who are fighting the occupation

of their country.

For you to insist on that is just another neocon talking point, which is why you don't have any links to back it up.

[Wacahootaman]

22. Wasnt it the Nazis who were fighting

against the occupation of their country in 1945?

Links? I dont have a catalog of links handy. No matter, you would discredit the links if I had any.

I will say this again. Just look at the targets of some of the car bombs. That should reveal some of the motivation of the bombers. Many are targeted against Iraqi civilians and not American troops.

[Ms. Clio]

24. The targets are COLLABORATORS with the occupiers of their country

So if you want to talk about the Nazis (ever hear of Godwin's Law?) then maybe you better start reading about Vichy France.

You don't have any links because your argument is ridiculous.

[Wacahootaman]

27. Here is a UPI story about foreign fighters being expelled from Fallujah

See, not all those who make the car bombs are Iraqi. Nor does the resistance against our troops even support those car bombers who murder Iraqi civilians on crowded streets.




http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20040719-065937-8587r.htm

[Ms. Clio]

28. Here's a clue since you're new to DU

UPI and Washington Times are owned by Reverend Moon, and are not usually considered credible sources by DUers. Please try again.

The attack today was on a police station--they are considered collaborators.

Sixty-one Iraqi councilors have died since the "handover." They are considered collaborators.

Allawi is a dead man walking--he is a CIA puppet, and a murderer--or did you fail to read the reports that he executed six prisoners right before he became "Prime Minister" of Iraq?

None of those civilians would be dying from car bombs if the U.S. hadn't invaded Iraq.

Which is where I think this discussion started.

[Beetwasher]

19. Baathist Extremists?

I though they were Al Quaeda and Al Zarquari...Can't you guys make up your minds?

Would these Baathists be the same one's we surrendered Fallujah to?

Got any proof of these so-called mass graves? I've never seen anything except allegations from liars about that...

[Wacahootaman]

23. Does it matter, would you believe any proof I had

"Got any proof of these so-called mass graves? I've never seen anything except allegations from liars about that..."

Did you see the bodies at Buchenwald from the Nazi Holocaust?

Did you ever see any slaves on southern plantations?

Do you believe these things happened.

Just curious if you believe anything that you haven't seen with your own eyes or this standard is reserved for the defense of Americas enemies?

[manic expression]

29. Those mass graves you keep screaming about

were mostly the remains of the attempted Shi'ite revolution that Bush 1st cultivated and then abandoned. Their blood is on our hands as well. The average Iraqi was harmed much, much more by: 1.) The Gulf War, which killed massive amounts of fleeing Iraqi soldiers, who were in the military only to put food on their families table. The U.S. Military also demolished Iraq's infastructure, which effectively neutralized Iraq's capabilities of giving its people any aid or comfort (which is, by definition, a warcrime). 2.) The U.S. imposed sanctions (Clinton is responsible for this as well), which claimed the lives of 3,000 Children A MONTH. 3.) The recent war in Iraq, which, as any idiot can see (except Bush 2nd), is not helping the Iraqi people too much to say the least.

[Beetwasher]

32. Uhh, Yes, You Did See Bodies From The Holocaust

Uhh, yes, you did see slaves on the plantations...

Get a clue. How pathetic.

[NickB79]

37. Most of those found in mass graves so far have been military

Found wearing Iraqi military uniforms and with military identification. Iraq and Iran fought for most of the 1980's, with both sides suffering massive casualties. It was much easier at the time to bury the dead soldiers in the western desert than ship them back home to their families. It also satisfied the Muslim belief that the dead should be buried as soon as possible after death.

Iraq lost over 100,000 troops in Gulf War 1, many of them burned beyond recognition or blown to pieces by our bombing runs on them as they retreated. Most of them were also buried where they fell, in mass graves in the southern desert.

Shortly after Gulf War 1 ended, US agents working in the northern and southern no-fly zones encouraged an uprising by the Kurds and the Shiites to overthrow Saddam by promising them US air support. When they rose up, the US pulled a Bay-of-Pigs no-show, and tens of thousands of Iraqis were killed by Saddam's troops.

I have no doubt that Saddam did kill many, many innocent people during his reign. But when you break the numbers down, he killed far fewer civilians than we try to give him credit for. Does this make him a good person? Hell no, he was still a dictator. However, there are far more dangerous dictators in the world today, ones we should have gone after first if we were really interested in saving civilian lives.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

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[Ms. Clio]

35. Don't you just love it when someone who obviously hasn't bothered

to read any of the thread makes bold declarative statements about "facts" that have already been debunked therein?

Truly pathetic.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

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[Beetwasher]

40. LOL!

Uhh, the Guardian is biased??? On what planet?

These reports you linked are EXACTLY what the Guardian story is debunking.

This community is certainly NOT for you as you seem to swallow all the propoganda that is spoon fed to you.

From you much vaunted NPR story:

"A clot of shouting men comes rumbling over a hill of excavated dirt. In the middle is Ahmed Chalabi, head of the Iraqi National Congress, an Iraqi expatriate who wants to build a new government. The men are shouting at him. One says he lost four brothers and pleads for help finding them."

Also this:

"Peter Bouchaert, with the group Human Rights Watch, says most of the dead were killed in 1991, after the failed uprising against Saddam Hussein. But how many of the buried died fighting and how many were murdered may never be known. U.S. coalition forces have failed to bring in the kind of forensic experts who are needed to exhume the graves."

Did you even bother to read any of the stuff at the links?

Just as I suspected, more Chalabi inspired propoganda that's short on facts. I suppose you believed the stories about babies being thrown out incubators too?

You need to learn about critical thinking instead of lapping up propoganda regurgitate like a good Bushbot. Pathetic, even for you Mr. Chalabi.

[pale reflection]

42. Baghdad Bob! Is that really you?

I gave you the evidence you sought.

Every link I provided included pictures.

Your vaunted Guardian article disputes the number of dead in the graves, nothing more. And yet you are willing to overlook the crushing preponderance of evidence. Why? Is it a simply matter of personal pride? Are you unwilling, or unable to admit you were wrong?

Somehow, you manage to deny the basic truth of the stories even when the BBC, NPR, the anti-Chalibi PUK, One News, and Human Rights Watch all show you what you seek, independent of US government sources.

Human Rights Watch alone has 179 articles on Iraqi mass graves. Are they in the pocket of Bush and Chalibi? I don't think so.

They specifically link the graves of the mass graves of al-Mahawil to men Saddam had arrested and "disappeared" in this report: http://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/iraq0503/

Do you deny it? Do you call them liars?

The BBC link I provided shows the locations over 7,000 non-military dead in mass graves, including children.

The PUK dislikes and distrusts Chalibi, and yet they claim thousands dead and buried on their site, corroborating these other sources.

Critical thinking? I've done it.

I've provided sources from several countries, with widely varying political viewpoints and goals, along with a well-respected human rights organization. The depth and breadth of my sourcing stands up to any rational level of scrutiny.

You can stick your fingers in your ears and deny the truth, but it doesn't keep the truth from happening.

[Beetwasher]

43. How Pathetic

You fail to address the relevant points. If they are claiming that there were 400,000 bodies in mass graves and as it turns out maybe there are 5,000 bodies and that there was NEVER any proper forensics done to determine how those people died, according to articles that YOU posted, how can we believe ANYTHING that is claimed?

Did Saddam murder people? Yeah, sure he did. Are there mass graves? I don't know, but that claim IS being disputed. For all we know cemeteries are being dug up and being claimed as mass graves.

From the article you just posted:

"In addition, because no forensic presence existed at the site, crucial evidence necessary for future trials of the persons responsible for the mass executions was never collected, and indeed may have been irreparably destroyed."

We don't have a clue who is responsible, how these people died or how many there were. Do you even read what you post?

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

36. Absolutely consistent - you always are refuting whatever claim is made

and you sound like you're rying to subtly inject RW talking points into the conversation - but I ain't buyin' it!

[DoYouEverWonder]

21. Hi Wacahootaman

Good to see you. One bit of advise, this is a private forum and they do ban people around here who are considered 'disruptive'. Since, I know you really are a gentleman, I'd just hate to see you get tombstoned.

:hi:

DYEW

[Wacahootaman]

25. Howdy back DYEW

I took your advice and checked out this site. I see why you like it here. It is really quite a cool forum. Tremendous amt of info.

I will try to behave. Hopefully the monitors will be mature enough to let me stay if I only discuss the issues at hand on other peoples threds.

After all, I am a life long registered Democrat and will may vote for Kerry cause I dont really care for Bush. I sorta wonder why some of these posters support Kerry cause he has said that he plans to keep our troops in Iraq too.

It ought to get interesting

[DoYouEverWonder]

26. Well hopefully we can influence you enough

to at least not vote for Bu$h.

Gotta go. Heading down to the Peace River with the family. Hope to see you around here or at the Sun when I get back.

DYEW

[Media_Lies_Daily]

31. The captive mainstream MEDIA has reported that Kerry intends to keep....

...our troops in Iraq, but what they didn't report is his clear intent to REDUCE the number of our troops in-country, and to get NATO involved as part of the peacekeeping force he envisions for Iraq.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

30. The "serious questions" concerning the scale of Saddam's murders....

...has to do with the fact that the numbers are not even close to the numbers given to us by the NeoCon Junta to help justify their illegal and immoral attack on Iraq.

Add that to the lies we were told about Iraqi WMDs, and Iraq's ties to Al Qaedi.

OK, got that?

[DoYouEverWonder]

20. According to a statement from Blair the other day

They have uncovered 5000 bodies in 'mass' graves. Way short of the 400,000 or so that Blair and W have been claiming. As a matter of fact, 5000 is less than the number of civilians the US killed during the invasion.

[bushisanidiot]

38. Probably Pretty Close to the number of Iraqi civilians Pres AWOL has

murdered with his re-election "war".

Somehow though.. I think AWOL is winning that bloody contest.

[Doosh]

11. it's reigning freedom all over the damn place!

[pinniped]

41. Their assignment is the same everyday...

dodge bullets, low-flying RPGs and navigate thru the maze of roadside bombs.