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reorg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-22-04 04:26 PM
Original message
Aljazeera: Sudan cautions against Darfur deployment
Sudan cautions against Darfur deployment

Thursday 22 July 2004, 16:32 Makka Time, 13:32 GMT

Foreign Minister Ismail offered to withdraw Sudanese forces
Sudan has said deployment of British troops in Darfur would amount to occupation, and that they would face an Iraq-like situation there.

Sudanese Foreign Minister Mustafa Ismail was on Thursday reacting to a report in the London-based Guardian newspaper that British Prime Minister Tony Blair was considering troop deployment in Darfur.

Ismail warned that if Britain sent soldiers to the region, "in one or two months, these forces are going to be considered by people of Darfur as occupying forces and the same incidents you are now facing in Iraq are going to be repeated in Darfur".

Ismail also said that "more than 60%" of the population in Darfur were against the rebels and that the Khartoum government was doing its best to disarm the militias.

Sudan would withdraw government troops from its violence-wracked Darfur region if Britain sends forces in, said Ismail on a visit to Paris.

...

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/208C1E95-A6B5-44B1-991D-BD43E7B91131.htm
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Hoping4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-22-04 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. I think its pathetic that there is no hue and cry from muslim nations
Edited on Thu Jul-22-04 04:35 PM by Hoping4Change
and Immans condemning the atrocities. And this from someone who supports the Palestinians. I am really starting to loathe every organized religion out there, if god ever offered me a place in heaven I think I'll take a pass.
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reorg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-22-04 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Musharraf promises to help German bid to salvage Sudan crisis
Musharraf promises to help German bid to salvage Sudan crisis

Thursday July 22nd, 2004 15:58.

ISLAMABAD, July 22 (AFP) -- Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf told visiting German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer Thursday he would take a personal interest in preventing a humanitarian catastrophe in Sudan.

Fischer, in Pakistan for two days on the last leg of a 10-day Asian tour, asked the Islamic republic to use its UN Security Council position to exert influence on Sudan to prevent a deepening of the humanitarian crisis in its Darfur region, where over 10,000 people have been killed in the past 18 months.

"Be assured I will take a personal interest," Musharraf told Fischer, according to a German official present at their 90-minute talks in Islamabad.

Fischer, also Germany's vice chancellor, insisted during talks with Musharraf "that a humanitarian catastrophe would have to be prevented in Sudan," the official said.

...


http://www.sudantribune.com/article.php3?id_article=4121

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Hoping4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-22-04 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I's talking about condemnations. like the kind we hear when Iran
issues fatwas. The cat didn't get their tongue when it came to issuing one against Rusdie for his Satanic Verses.
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reorg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-22-04 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. It's Muslims against Muslims
I don't know if Imams have issued condemnations of atrocities in Darfur. How do you know they haven't?

Even the government of Sudan condemns them and claims to have sentenced some perpetrators to amputations or death.



BTW, I found what probably amounts to an official statement at the website of Sudan's embassy, with many references to news articles in Western media, offering a different view, of course, to what we read lately:


THE DARFUR CRISIS: LOOKING BEYOND THE PROPAGANDA

NEWS STORY | Tuesday, July 13, 2004

"There has been a breakdown in negotiations because of unacceptable rebel demands. The talks have been suspended."

Chadian Government Peace Mediators, December 2003 (1)

"What is going on in Darfur is a war by proxy"

Sudanese Vice-President Ali Osman Taha, July 2003 (2)


Introduction

Since February 2003, there has been a growing armed conflict between two armed groups and the Government of Sudan in Darfur. These groups launched their first attacks on government garrisons in the region. These armed groups call themselves the 'Sudan Liberation Army' (SLA) and the 'Justice and Equality Movement' (JEM).(3) Darfur is home to some 80 tribes and ethnic groups divided between nomads and sedentary communities. The unrest, especially that associated with the SLA, appears to have been identified with one particular ethnic group, the Zaghawa tribe, which straddles the Sudan-Chad border. The JEM group has come to be identified with extremist Islamic political leaders hostile to the present Sudanese government.

Darfur presents a very complex situation with very complex problems. There can be no simple analysis of the issue. Darfur is an ecologically- fragile area and subject to growing - and often armed - conflict over access to water. There has also been considerable armed banditry and criminality within the area with many criminals having access to automatic weapons from Chad and the Central African Republic. In perhaps the most objective reading of the crisis in Darfur, the UN media service has made this analysis: "The conflict pits farming communities against nomads who have aligned themselves with the militia groups - for whom the raids are a way of life - in stiff competition for land and resources. The militias, known as the Janjaweed, attack in large numbers on horseback and camels and are driving the farmers from their land, often pushing them towards town centres."(4)

What is clear is that just as Sudan was on the brink of resolving its long-running civil war in southern Sudan, another conflict has suddenly appeared - a conflict clearly fanned by external forces and Islamic fundamentalist extremists. It has also become apparent that the Darfur issue has been caught up in the sort of propaganda and misinformation that has characterised previous coverage of Sudan.

And for all the SLA's pretence of pursuing a political agenda, the UN news service reported that "SLA rebels regularly attacked and looted villages taking food and sometimes killing people...The attacks present a real threat to people's food security and livelihoods, by preventing them from planting and accessing markets to buy food."(5) The SLA had also sought to suppress opposition within the areas it has sought to dominate by the abduction, for example, of tribal leaders.(6)

...

Khartoum's concerns about propagandistic distortion of the issue appear to be well founded. Partisan or lazy analysts or journalists seem to be unable to resist projecting the image of government-supported "Arab" - Janjaweed - militias attacking "African" villagers - this despite the scarcity of reliable information. UN media sources, for example, have noted "a lack of accurate information on the conflict" (42) and Reuters has also stated that "it is hard to independently verify claims by government or rebels in Darfur." (43)


http://www.sudanembassy.org/default.asp?page=viewstory&id=285


1 "Sudan Govt, SLA Rebels Peace Talks Break Down in Chad", News Article by Associated Press, 16 December 2003.

2 "Government Accuses Rebel Leader of Being Behind War in Western Sudan", News Article by Associated Press, 29 July 2003.

3 See, for example, "Darfur Rebels Adopt New Name: Sudan Liberation Movement/Army", News Article by Agence France Presse, 14 March 2003.

4 "Widespread Insecurity in Darfur Despite Ceasefire", News Article by Integrated Regional Information Networks, UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, 3 October 2003.

5 "Widespread Insecurity Reported in Darfur", News Article by Integrated Regional Information Networks, UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, 30 July 2003.

6 See, for example, "Khartoum Forces Free Tribal Leaders Held Hostage in Darfur: Press", News Article by Agence France Presse, 30 March 2003.

...

42 "The Escalating Crisis in Darfur", News Article by Integrated Regional Information Networks, UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, 31 December 2003.

43 "Pressure Seen as Key to Ending Sudan's Western War", News Article by Reuters, 28 January 2004.



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Hoping4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-22-04 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Pure Sudanese propaganda. Arabs want to get rid of blacks. Period
"The Arabs want to get rid of anyone with black skin," Youssef Yakob Abdullah said. In the area of Darfur that he fled, "there are no blacks left," he said.

In Darfur, the fighting is not over religion, for the victims as well as the killers are Muslims. It is more ethnic and racial, reflecting some of the ancient tension between herdsmen (the Arabs in Darfur) and farmers (the black Africans, although they herd as well). The Arabs and non-Arabs compete for water and forage, made scarce by environmental degradation and the spread of the desert.

http://globalsecurity.com/global_security/will_we.htm


"Human Rights Watch has proof of government complicity in the wholesale rape of black girls and women.

"The have cut through the region, laying waste entire towns and villages, poisoning wells and slaughtering helpless refugees.

If marauding militias were not shocking enough, it turns out that the militias, known as janjaweed, are using mass rape as a tool of intimidation and are being encouraged in these brutal attacks by Arab women. A report by Amnesty International says black females, ranging from young children to the aged, have been deliberately targeted for public rape by the militiamen while Arab women accompanying them have verbally harassed the victims, sung songs of praise and participated in looting.

The government in Khartoum has repeatedly denied any involvement and calls the rapes an inevitable part of war. But Human Rights Watch says it has documentary proof that the government is more closely tied to the janjaweed than it has been willing to admit. The government has to put a stop to the depradations of the militias, provide safe access for aid workers and commit itself to a peaceful resolution of the conflict."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20040721/ESUDAN21//?query=darfur


Govt Quietly Recruiting Militia - Calls for Peace only a Facade

"Documents released Monday by Human Rights Watch suggest that while the government has publicly called for peace, it has quietly continued recruiting and arming militiamen and other "loyalists."

The Arabic-language documents, obtained by the international rights group, include a government order in February calling for "security units" in Darfur to tolerate the activities of the militiamen and a plan for Arab resettlement of areas where black farmers were driven out.

Sudan experts say Janjaweed militiamen also are being incorporated into new police and military units in Darfur, which means "we have them providing protection for the same civilians they just displaced and committed atrocities against," said Georgette Gagnon, deputy director for the Africa division of Human Rights Watch.

"The Khartoum government is trying to have it both ways, maintaining a facade of cooperation with the international community but in fact doing relatively little to rein in the ongoing atrocities in Darfur," said Kenneth Roth, executive director of the human-rights group."


http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=12414888&BRD=984&PAG=740&dept_id=226968&rfi=6



Sudanese Govt Planning Concentration Camps

"With the Interior Minister General plan, if it is implemented, the government of Sudan would complete its redrawing of the ethnic map of Darfur. African farmers burned out of the countryside by the army and the Janjaweed would be herded into unnatural concentrations where they would exist as a slave underclass under permanent threat of arms. Reports from inside Darfur already indicate that Arabs from Sudan and neighboring countries are being moved into areas that have been emptied of their original, African inhabitants."

http://kurdishmedia.com/reports.asp?id=2069



Shameful Silence from Islamic Leaders who've sided with Sudanese Govt

"Islamic leaders abroad have been particularly shameful in standing with the Sudanese government oppressors rather than with the Muslim victims in Darfur. Do they care about dead Muslims only when the killers are Israelis or Americans?"

http://www.sudantribune.com/article_impr.php3?id_article=3164

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reorg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. NYT editorial is your source?
http://www.sudantribune.com/article_impr.php3?id_article=3164

(with NYT editorial by Mr. Kristof of May 29, 2004)


I thought you didn't like propaganda.

Loaded language ("concentration camps"), praising Bush - I thought people have learned from what the NYT did in the run-up to the Iraq war?

But then again their half-hearted apologies for providing false information on WMD in Iraq were not to be taken too seriously ...

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Hoping4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I cited NYT regarding lack of Islamic outrage, please cite
some sources that prove otherwise. Oh BTW is the opinion of Dr. Muqtedar Khan, in his Op-Ed in Muslim.alt.com suitable to you?

"I am also personally disgusted with myself for not even being aware of this until April when reports began to filter in. Apparently we Muslims who love to rage and fume about state sponsored terrorism, give lengthy sermons about justice, morality, humanity, human rights etc. every time the Israeli army kills a handful of Arabs, remain unaware, silent and unmoved when Arab militias murder, rape and destroy thousands of lives.

The Arab militias are also dispossessing them, taking their homes and land. Already there are over 200,000 refugees from Darfur in Chad alone, and there is no record of those who are internally displaced.

What are our institutions like the Arab league and the OIC doing about this genocide in the making?

Today I feel shame and grief for my community.

May Allah forgive us. In our pursuit to fly high the flag of Islam, we have forgotten how to be good human beings. Muslims today are more interested in flaunting Islam as an identity symbol and do not treat Islam as a moral code that must restrict our choices and actions even if our political and material interests are hurt as a result of our moral choices.

I feel helpless. I know I cannot do anything myself. I also know that Muslim nations will do nothing except to launch a propaganda effort to save the "image of Islam and Arabs in Western media" and hide the facts."


http://www.altmuslim.com/opinion_comments.php?id=1247_0_25_0_C



What about Dubai Gulf News Online as a source? Is that acceptable to you?

"(And if Al Jazeera and Al Arabiya were really serious about covering atrocities around the world, they would regularly show footage of the genocidal killing in Darfur, Sudan. Or is that massacre ignored because it is Arabs who are doing the killing?)"

http://www.gulfnews.com/Articles/opinion.asp?ArticleID=126131



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reorg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I asked for sources, you offer opinions
- I told you I don't know if Islamist authorities were outraged at the situation in Darfur, what sources can I possibly cite for this? I do not speak Arabic nor do I have access to inside information from Islamist circles. So I have really no idea what they think about Darfur. Do you?


What you cite does not really support your point.

Mr. Khan asks "What are our institutions like the Arab league and the OIC doing about this genocide in the making?"

An answer to this is easily found on the web:

"A press release issued by the secretariat of the Arab League on 19 May was what kick-started the debate over developments in Darfur at the Arab summit. Highlighting information included in a report compiled by a fact-finding Arab League mission that visited Darfur earlier in May, the press release referred to "gross human rights violations committed in this part of Sudan as part of the inter- tribal conflict" and the absence of adequate security measures. The statement also quoted the report as suggesting the need for the establishment of "an independent fact-finding mission to look into the inhumane practices ", and to provide necessary security measures to prevent further human rights violations."

http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2004/692/re9.htm



And as to the rant of this other guy you found at Gulf News -- while the header fits, only the short bracketed sentence you quote refers to the situation in Darfur, or rather the alleged lack of reporting by Aljazeera.

It is true, one could expect some more information from them, but what is not true is that they DON'T report on the situation. I don't know if it is the proper role of the media to give expression to outrage. OTOH, Gulf News seem to be quite good at it.


So I am still wondering, where did you get this information that no Islamist authorities are outraged at the situation in Darfur, Sudan?

Or is this "where is the Islamist outrage" thing just one of the talking points du jour?



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Hoping4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-24-04 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. How is that one can google Rushdie and there are lots of
Edited on Sat Jul-24-04 10:34 AM by Hoping4Change
hits in English from Muslim orgs and individuals still supporting the fatwa? Lots of denunciations in English of the atrocities In Iraqi prisons, etc. There is no shortage of Muslim outrage of all sorts of issues. How odd then that there are no hits when I searched for Imams denounce Darfur, Islamic nations denounce Darfur,
Muslims Denounce Darfur. And the list goes on trying to find denunciations.

As for the Press Release to cite talk about lame compare that to the outrage about Rushdie and Abu Graib. Whoever wrote that one should qualify for a job at the White House press office writing official US statements on the Israel/Palestinian conflict.
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Hoping4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I forget read Dr. Muqtedar Khan blog where he continues
his remarks on the scandalous lack of outrage within the Islamic community.
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reorg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. not sure what you are talking about
Mr. Khan's blog?

At the site that you quoted I only saw this other short article, the response from another Muslim:

"I'm dumbfounded by Mr. Khan's oversimplification and extreme lack of understanding over the whole Darfur crisis by looking at the situation as an ethnically based massacre instead of the facts. And the facts does not require a lot of research. Janjaweed are 'Arabs,' but to blame Arabs for the horrible crimes of the Janjaweed is like blaming Muslims for the crimes of the 9/11 terrorists or the US forces for the crimes of the Abu Ghraib soldiers. ..."

http://www.altmuslim.com/opinion_comments.php?id=1247_0_25_0_C


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Hoping4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-24-04 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Dr. Khan's blog below
"The African Union is planning to send in a peace delegation, but the Organization of Islamic Countries and the Arab League are maintaining silence, as if nothing is happening.



Darfur Horror Continues: What are Muslims Waiting For? It seems that while the rest of the world is indulging in semantic and diplomatic tussles, the Muslim World is waiting for somebody from the rest of the world to once again come and solve Muslim problems.


American Muslim organizations are also silent. So far none of the National Muslim Organizations have anything to say o the matter


They seem to be more concerned that truth about Darfur will expose the racism in Muslim societies."


May I point out that given his creditials his opinions are not drawn from thin air.

He is Director of International Studies and Chair, Political Science Department at Adrian College in Michigan, a Ph.D. in International Relations, Political Philosophy, and Islamic Political Thought, from Georgetown

A Non-Resident Fellow at the Brookings in Washington DC.


Associated with the Center for the Study of Islam and Democracy and the Institute for Social Policy and Understanding.

Author of
American Muslims: Bridging Faith and Freedom (Amana, 2002),
Jihad for Jerusalem: Identity and Strategy in International Relations (Praeger, 2004).
His forthcoming book is titled Beyond Jihad and Crusade: Rethinking US Policy in the Muslim World (Brookings Institution, 2004).



http://www.ijtihad.org/globalog.htm



Dr. Khan's web-sitehttp://www.ijtihad.org/
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reorg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-24-04 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. American Muslim organizations are also silent.?
I don't think that's entirely true. See for instance

http://www.muslimwakeup.com/archives/000962.php

where they also clamour for more responses from American Muslims, but at the same time provide examples to the contrary.

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Hoping4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-24-04 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. It is a blog hardly an example of a natioanl Islamic organization
Read their comment

"Despite their full-time staff poised to issue press releases right and left, the overall response to the humanitarian crisis from American Muslim organizations has been dismal.

So far, the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) has been able to squeeze out three sentences, calling on “all parties to the conflict to cease the violence.” Whoever wrote that one should qualify for a job at the White House press office writing official US statements on the Israel/Palestinian conflict."


As fot the "ne shining light" the Council of Islamic Organizations of Greater Chicago (CIOGC), it only set up last week, a special Darfur Relief Fund. The Darfur crisis has been in the works for several years.


So I am to be impressed by a blog. Spare me. Wake up. Show me credible Islamic orgs that have denounced the slaughter of innocents in Darfur.
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reorg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-24-04 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Hey, as an aside ...
Are you somehow magically connected to this www.muslimwakeup.com site?

you made this comment to me in your message 14 of Sat Jul-24-04 04:27 PM:

"Whoever wrote that one should qualify for a job at the White House press office writing official US statements on the Israel/Palestinian conflict."


And to my later message # 16 of Sat Jul-24-04 04:54 PM, with the link to www.muslimwakeup.com, you replied in your message #18 Sat Jul-24-04 05:34 PM with a quote from their site:


"Whoever wrote that one should qualify for a job at the White House press office writing official US statements on the Israel/Palestinian conflict."


Amazing coincidence!!! :-) Not that it matters, though.



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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-24-04 06:06 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. Hoping4Changes's sources also include
Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International. But it's convenient for you to ignore them, and concentrate on the one source you can attack for its past, isn't it?
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reorg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-24-04 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. I asked Hoping4Changes to provide sources for his claim
that Muslims / Islamists are lacking in outrage / condemnation / desperation about the situation in Darfur.

His only source making this claim was the infamous Mr. "Bush’s central problem is not that he was lying about Iraq, but that he was overzealous and self-deluded" Kristof in the NYT.

I realize, though, that it is hard to stick to the point, particularly in this forum. If people participate in a thread, they rarely seem to read more than one or two messages preceding the one they are replying to.

As to his other sources, I read them and did not find anything about the alleged lack of outrage or condemnation from Muslims about the situation in Darfur.




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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-24-04 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Well, your post #7 doesn't make it clear that you're restricting
your argument to the condemnation, or lack of condemnation, by Islamic leaders. Post #7 looks like a reply to #6.

But Hoping4Change has supplied one article claiming a lack of condemnation. That's all that's needed for her point of view; you have to find an Islamic leader doing some comdemning to disprove it. So far you seem to be struggling.
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reorg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-24-04 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Do Islamic leaders condemn atrocities in Darfur?
Yes or no? To tell you the truth, I don't know either way, as I explained before.

From my reading of various articles on the subject, Arab and/or Muslim sources seem to take various views, perhaps according to different levels of information on the conflict, and certainly due to different biases.

There is one "faction", as it were, that utterly distrusts anything that comes out of the US, including their "human rights industry" (as the Sudan government has labelled them recently). I cannot blame them.

Secondly, a widespread ignorance -- even among Arabs -- on goings-on in Darfur is cited as reason for "Arab silence":

>>Weeping Darfur: The Tragic Saga of Skin and Bones
By Lamya Tawfik, 31/05/2004
...
In an open letter directed to Arab leaders published on May 19 on Sudaneseonline.com, intellectuals from Darfur questioned Arab silence, drawing resemblance to situations in Iraq, Palestine, Somalia, Bosnia and the Gujarat in India adding: “Muslims in all these places are being killed and no one in any Arab or Islamic country does anything positive until Allah makes the non-Muslims move to their rescue.” <16>

“The Arab World is always silent, as in the case of what is happening in Palestine and Iraq ! The Arab relief organizations have started to move (e.g. United Arab Emirates and Kuwait) after the UN Humanitarian Committee sent an appeal to those organizations to provide help,” said Mustafa.

The reason behind the Arab world’s silence, according to Adam, is that people in those countries “know very little about Sudan let alone about Darfur and consequently they believe in the misleading information which the Sudanese Government agencies present. Moreover, the culture of NGOs and civil society is not fully-grown in the Arab world and therefore the absence of Arab relief organizations from Darfur is based on the lack of such culture.”<<

http://www.islamonline.net/English/Science/2004/05/article11.shtml

See also this reader's comment at the site (a very interesting point of view with a few hints as to whence the astounding and sudden Western attention and interest in this conflict derives).

http://www.islamonline.net/Discussion/English/bbs.asp?aParID=357965&aTpID=&aGroupID=68682&action=move&aPathID=242&aSubject=Peace+At+Last+In+Our+Beloved+Sudan



Third, I have found quite frequently a sort of "measured" response that speaks of a human tragedy -- but stops short of concurring with the loaded language in the flurry of recent US and European news reports, and especially with their calls for foreign intervention.

Says, for instance, Sudan's key opposition leader Sadiq al-Mahdi, leader of the Umma party (I guess that qualifies as Islamic leader?) whose administration was overthrown in 1989 by the present government and who returned from political exile in the late 1990s:

>>Causes bedeviling the Darfur problem are known, with the major ones manifested in the development gap, conflict over resources between nomadic and settled tribes following the drought that hit the region, in addition to tribal and intertribal conflicts and non-availability of basic health and education services.

Added to that, the civil war in Chad culminated in the emergence of armed robbery in the region. The incumbent government policies also had their negative effect on the situation. Attempts by Dr. Ali Al Haj, who was assigned the affairs of the region, to establish a political base for the government there led him to be antagonistic to major forces and tribes, hence harming the social fabric without succeeding to achieve his goal.

Secondly, a few number of Arab youth received military training to counter the activities of the people's army. Members from non-Sudanese Arab tribes joined them, forming an elitist group whose activity was seen as of a military nature.

Groups opposed to this group looked at the government as their real enemy because of its support to it, and as a result, the former began launching subversive activities. To quell these activities, Government gave support to the first group, hence a state of polarization prevailed to finally culminate in human tragedies which drew the attention of the outside world. Several foreign delegations that visited the region saw for themselves these tragedies.

The Fur who fled to Chad spoke to foreign media agencies about the tragedies in the region and so attracted the concern of international public opinion. Under the circumstances, the American administration openly held the Sudan Government responsible for these tragedies, warning if intervention of the conflict was not ended.

In addition to this limited internationalization of the problem, broad and armed intervention has become relevant. In the face of this situation, we believe that armed intervention is wrong and will have negative effects. Urgent moves should be made to address the problem through the two following scenarios.

First, an administrative reform by assigning the administration of the region to trusted national figures to give the impression that change has been made.

Second: firm investigation of the wrongs committed and holding accountable those who committed them

Third: ceasing aggression on civilians

Fourth: Guarantee of flow of abundant relief to conflict-affected-people.

These, in my opinion, are the necessary measures to be taken, coupled with commitment to ceasefire under African Union on monitoring teams.<<

http://www.sudan.net/news/press/postedr/296.shtml

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Hoping4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-24-04 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. To your remarks about "measured" response" I say baloney.
Where was this measured response to Rushdie and other intellectuals whose lives are imperiled because they are regarded as un-Islamic?

You are an Apologist plain and simple, unable to accept the glaring fact that the Islamic world's lack of response is contemptible.
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reorg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-24-04 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. that is true: what you say is baloney
... not a single word of substance.

What is this old fatwa thing against Rushdie to do with anything?

So some radical Imams are religious right wing lunatics? Surprise, surprise.

What is your beef with "the Islamic world" (whatever THAT may refer to), anyway? Are you afraid they send some more terrorists?

Are you trying to understand something or you just whining?




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Hoping4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-24-04 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. My beef is that they are silent when it comes to criticizing
their own. Rushie is not old news, the fatwa is still on his head and upon many other Muslim intellectuals who unlike yourself question their leaders.


You refuse to admit that you cannot find any vehement denunciations about the slaughter in Darfur from Islamic leaders, the kind of vehement denunciations that flooded in from American allies and religious leaders across the board when the world discovered the prison atrocities in Iraq. The only thing Islamic leaders and Imams have done is make lame appeals for peace. Where are the fatwas on the Arab militiamen?


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reorg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-24-04 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. I feel your pain
So the religious leaders of the West have issued fatwas on the heads of state that have launched wars of aggression against Afghanistan and Iraq, they have given expression of outrage and condemned to hell those responsible for murdering and torturing Afghan, Iraqi, and other, mainly Arab, civilians, including children? I was on holiday for a while, so I may have missed that.

I only noticed these blood- and oil-hungry brutes covering up and shifting blame for their crimes, something for which they employ an army of PR agencies going by the label of "the media". They say it's the fault of their incompetent spy agencies and a few bad apples in the military -- at least that's what I heard, you may be closer to the source.


As to "questioning my leaders" ... the originally pacifist Greens, at least the sellouts in our current government coalition with the SPD, are more or less the spokespersons of the IGC, Anmesty International, and similar (N)GOs in the executive branch. The SPD (social democrats) sometimes may take a more "realist" stance here and there, but more to the point: this coalition has been groundbreaking in its efforts to undermine the German constitution which expressly prohibits wars of aggression: with the participation in the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia and also with the participation in Afghanistan.(1)

Earlier this year, these warmongers were calling again for participation in an intervention, this time in Sudan. Wow! Who would have dreamed of that just a few years ago, when this coalition first came into office! I suspected it then, but I was one among only a few.

Lately, such calls for intervention have subsided a little in Germany, from the Bundestag (German Congress) debate on this I take the hint that this is mainly due to our American friends' wishes. The Americans have been embroiled in the Sudan conflicts for quite a while, from what I read with a more pragmatic twist, lately, what with the need to diversify the sources of energy and such.

The German government now calls for a "robust mandate" for the African Union and pledges financial support, for this and for humanitarian assistance. (With this I have no problem at all.) They also would like to press for a weapons embargo against Sudan, but realistically acknowledge that this is not going to happen as long as the only nation able to monitor such an embargo with their planes and satellites, the US, declines to do this ... (2)

---

(1) Actually it was the first post WWII participation of Germany in any war, if we don't count supporting American troops in practically all wars on this side of the Atlantic as participation. With respect to undermining the anti-war German constitution, the previous government was no better, of course, than this one: they first introduced the mind-boggling concept that a "war for resources" must be interpreted as a "defensive" war.


(2) The states able to monitor such an embargo are not willing -- to this very day -- to bring in their technical capabilities for air space and ground surveillance. I request the Federal Government to press very hard so that monitoring the compliance with such an embargo is enabled by the application of US and other states' technology, such as satellites. This is the pivotal question.

MdB Rudolf Büttner, SPD; quoted from protocol of debate on "Humanitarian and human rights situation and international responsibility in Western Sudan


German original:

Die Staaten, die in der Lage wären, die Einhaltung dieses Embargos zu kontrollieren, sind bis heute nicht bereit, ihre technischen Möglichkeiten zur Verfügung zu stellen, um zu überwachen, ob Flugzeuge in den entsprechenden Gebieten landen.

Ich bitte die Bundesregierung, ihr Gewicht in die Waagschale zu werfen, damit die Einhaltung eines solchen Embargos durch die
Technik der USA und anderer Staaten, etwa in Form von Satelliten, unterstützt wird. Das ist die entscheidende Frage.

Zit. aus: Zur humanitären und menschenrechtlichen Situation und internationalen Verantwortung im westlichen Sudan – Drucksache 15/3197


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InkAddict Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-22-04 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
4. but, but, but...
no one's sending Brits, Norwegians, Germans, Central Americans, etc...Onward X-tian soldiers..Marching as to war...
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