China Warns US Pacific Commander on Taiwan

[UpInArms]

http://www.voanews.com/article.cfm?objectID=F15FF7C4-9A34-411D-B2197829B207CD02

China's foreign minister has told the top U.S. military official in Asia that the United State should stop selling weapons to Taiwan and end military exchanges with the island.

Reports from Beijing say Li Zhaoxing told the visiting commander of U.S. forces in the Pacific, Admiral Thomas Fargo, that Taiwan remains the biggest concern in U.S.-Sino relations.

China made similar comments earlier this month, when President Bush's national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, visited Beijing.

<snip>

China considers Taiwan a renegade province, and has threatened to intervene militarily, if it moves toward independence.

China is conducting annual military exercises which have been described as a warning to Taiwan against independence.

...more...

[Baltimoreboy]

1. Too bad

Taiwan is a free and democratic nation.

[Bowline]

14. That's not how the PRC sees it.

They believe that the ROC is a renegade, breakaway province of China proper. They perceive our policy toward Taiwan the same way we'd see China shipping arms to, and pledging to defend, California against U.S. aggression.

[oneighty]

15. Confederate States of America

Was a Free and Democratic Nation (More or less) but Republican President Lincoln saw it a bit different and stomped them into the dirt, so to speak.

No?

180

[Media_Lies_Daily]

16. "Free and democratic nation"??? Really? Compared to what?

[w4rma]

2. China's fascist government is itching to militarily take Tiawan over. (nt)

[jayfish]

5. The Chinese Are Communists, Not Fascists.

They are on opposite ends of the spectrum. They are itching to take Taiwan but I doubt they see a military solution as the best way to go about it. I think what they are really itching for is the US to mind their own business on the issue, which I hope we never do.

Jay

[qazplm]

7. actually

these days they ARE more fascist than communist, in fact, I'd say they are more capitalist than communist these days.

[jayfish]

8. They Are Moving Toward A More Capitalistic Society...

but, I believe, that the bulk of production and compensation is still controlled by the state. Still not fascists though.

Jay

[Zynx]

9. Actually, China has developed very skewed income.

The top 10% makes well over ten times what the bottom ten percent makes and in the top 10%, the top 1% has the majority of that. China has become a full fledged fascist state now with increasingly private industry, but brutal oppressive rule.

[jayfish]

10. Looks Like I'll Have To Refresh Knowledge Of Chinese Near-History

It still doesn't sound right (no pun intended) though.

Jay

[Zynx]

17. It's not so much an issue of left-right.

Basically, think of the political scale as a "O", with moderate centrist on the top and Stalinism/Fascism coming towards each other on the bottom.

The only real difference between a Stalinist/Maoist Communist state and an overtly fascist government is the attitude towards private property. Both are highly militarized. Both have no political freedom and are in effect ruled by either a strongman or a very small junta. Both have secret police and no real form of due process. And so on.

Communism, in theory, has a much broader ruling structure, with the Party Congress having the real authority, the Central Committee next, and then the Politburo, which has little real authority, but is the executive because it is small enough to always meet. In practice, this is always inverted, with a strongman leading everything, then the Politburo, then the Central Committee, and finally (and irrelevently) the Party Congress.

What you actually get is not Communism in the least.

So, once a Communist state starts to slide towards private ownership and incentive income without political reforms you don't just move up the "O" to Socialist, but rather, as is the case in China, slide right over to the realm of Fascism.

China is especially prone to this because they are strongly nationalist with an almost racist dislike for non-Chinese. That's not a slam on the Chinese people, it's merely a major view. There is a concept, similar to ying-yang, of order between China and the Barbarians. Barbarians being everybody not Chinese. China's history has also led it to absolutely revile Western efforts to control it. The British doped them up and raped them.

So its really not much of a surprise to see China going this direction. It's dangerous, but not that surprising. Much, much easier to turn a Stalinist state into fascism than to turn it into a liberal democracy.

[bpilgrim]

3. who cares what they think... we got waaaaay more NUKEs then they got!

peace

[amber dog democrat]

11. By that logic we would have "won" in Vietnam

Ultimately I think China will get control over Taiwan. If the US uses a nuclear deterrant as a threat to China, we will be locked into an un winnable situation.

Is this worth millions of Chinese and American lives?

[lastknowngood]

4. and we have 7 carrier battle groups right off tiawan right now

this is real dangerous.

[Zorra]

12. What is really scary is that we have Bu$h making decisions about

critical defense situations. He invaded Iraq and seriously miscalculated a whole lot of things regarding that invasion and occupation, including invading Iraq because he believed that they were an imminent threat to the US when they were not. That's about as serious an error in judgement as a leader can make. What kinds of critical mistakes will he make when confronted with a genuine threat?

Frightening.

(Whoops. I didn't know. It's all the CIA's fault)

[0007]

18. China will probably take back Taiwan when the time is ripe -

China is conducting annual military exercises which have been described as a warning to Taiwan against independence.

[David__77]

6. US must not interfere in Chinese affairs. Taiwan is off limits to US.

I think the US has done enough violation of international norms and laws. Taiwan is an intra-Chinese affair. There are many native people of the Taiwanese nationality, but Taiwan is a recognized part of China. Even the US recognizes there is only "one China" and that Taiwan is a part of that one China.

I'm sorry that so many progressives in this country don't see that China is a part of the third world and is fighting against imperialist subversion of all third world countries and oppressed people. We may disagree with China's policies stemming from its economic liberalization, but I think there are over-riding concerns.

There are legitimate concerns for human rights in China. But its record is solid gold compared with many US "allies." It's making steady and certain progress in this area. Regardless, human rights issues do not give a green light for a new colonialism. Whether in Bush's outright imperialist trappings or in "third way" "human rights" trappings, such undermining of national sovereignty is nothing but imperialist aggression.

[Zorra]

13. The reason that the US recognizes that there is only "one China"

is because the Chinese dictated that policy as a condition for diplomatic relations.

The US submitted to diplomatic blackmail by the Chinese in order to expand economic markets.

Do you think the majority of people in the Republic of China (Taiwan) recognize themselves citizens of the People's Republic of China (mainland China)?

China is doing nothing but exhibiting imperialist aggression toward a sovereign state.

IMO, mainland China has absolutely no valid claim on Taiwan unless Taiwan desires to become part of the PROC.

A series of severe clashes between a mainland military administration under Chen Yi and native Taiwanese then led to the bloody 228 incident in which government troops massacred 30,000 protestors. In the San Francisco Peace Treaty which came into force on April 28, 1952 and the Treaty of Taipei which came into force on August 5, 1952, Japan formally renounced all right, claim, and title to Formosa (Taiwan) and the Pescadores (a.k.a. Peng-hu). The treaty remained silent about who the island would be transferred to, in part to avoid taking sides in the ongoing Chinese Civil War. This has been used by advocates of Taiwan independence to justify self-determination.

The Kuomintang (Nationalist Party), which at the time controlled the government of the ROC, retreated to Taiwan after the Chinese Civil War between the Kuomintang and the Communist Party of China ended in the Communists' favor in 1949, bringing with them some 2 million refugees from Mainland China. Since then, Taiwan has developed a prosperous and dynamic economy, becoming one of the East Asian Tigers.

Taiwan remained under martial law for 4 decades until 1987 and one-party rule until 1991 when President Chiang Ching-kuo gradually liberalized and democratized the system. Upon his death, Vice-President Lee Teng-hui succeeded him as President of the ROC and Chairman of the KMT and made great strides in developing democracy in Taiwan. Lee became the first native Taiwanese to become the president during the KMT rule in Taiwan. KMT rule over Taiwan ended with the election of Chen Shui-bian of the Democratic Progressive Party in 2000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan