Breaking - Reuters: Bush's Records Do Not Dispel AWOL Charges

[ruggerson]

Bush's Military Records Fail to Dispel AWOL Charges
Fri Jul 23, 2004 07:15 PM ET

By Adam Entous
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Some of President Bush's missing Air National Guard records during the Vietnam War years, previously said to be destroyed, turned up on Friday but offered no new evidence to dispel charges by Democrats that he was absent without leave.

His whereabouts during his service as a pilot in the Texas Air National Guard in the United States during the Vietnam War have become an election-year issue. Bush's Democratic presidential challenger, John Kerry, is a decorated Vietnam War veteran.

The Pentagon, which had announced two weeks ago that the payroll records had been accidentally destroyed, blamed a clerical error for previous failure to find them.

In May 1972, Bush moved to Alabama to work on a political campaign and, he has said, to perform his Guard service there for a year. But other Guard officers have said they have no recollection of ever seeing him there.

Bush was the son of a U.S. congressman at a time when National Guard service was seen as a way for the privileged to avoid being drafted for Vietnam War duty.

Questions over his record resurfaced this year as Bush sought, in the midst of the Iraq war, to cast himself as a "war president" in his drive to win reelection on Nov. 2.

The documents released on Friday by the Pentagon included two faded computerized payroll sheets showing Bush was not paid during the latter part of 1972 and offer no evidence to place Bush in Alabama during the latter part of 1972.

Still, White House spokesman Trent Duffy said: "They show the president served in the military and completed his service, which is why he received an honorable discharge."

"UNANSWERED QUESTIONS"

The Democratic National Committee called the "supposed discovery" of Bush's payroll records late on Friday -- on the eve of the Democratic National Convention -- "highly questionable."

"If the Bush administration continues to search, maybe they'll find answers to the long list of unanswered questions that remain about George W. Bush's time in the Air National Guard. Bush's military records seem to show up as randomly as he did for duty," said DNC spokesman Jano Cabrera.


In February, the White House released hundreds of pages of Bush's military records. The White House included a footnote to those earlier records saying that files for the 3rd quarter of 1972 had apparently been lost in microfilm processing.
Defense Finance and Accounting Service spokesman Bryan Hubbard said the microfilm payroll records were found in a Denver facility.

"We're talking about a manual process for records that are over 30 years old," Hubbard said.

He said officials had previously looked in the wrong place for the records relating to the first quarter of 1969 and the third quarter of 1972, and concluded incorrectly that they had been destroyed.

Hubbard said that after the Pentagon announced two weeks ago that the records were lost, officials went back to double check, and found an "unlabeled binder" that led them to the right place.

The Pentagon had announced on July 9 that microfilm payroll records of large numbers of service members, including Bush, were ruined in 1996 and 1997 in a project to save large, brittle rolls of microfilm.

[MallRat]

1. WOW. They used the word "AWOL!"

FINALLY, an unflattering meme is starting to stick to *.

:bounce:

[2Design]

14. need to use the word deserter....because it was over 30 days

[Bluebear]

23. AWOL! They use the word!

Yesirreeeeeeeeee

[ruggerson]

2. Bush tried to dump this on a slow Friday

But the real story here is that there are NO RECORDS to prove his lie that he served in Alabama. None. Zilch.

Maybe the records proving his story are in his SOCKS.

[Fenris]

3. Once again...

It is a stable archival form. Most library microfiche use polyester with silver-halide dyes in hard gelatin, with an estimated life of 500 years in air-conditioning. In tropical climates with high humidities, fungus eats the gelatin used to hold silver-halide. In the tropics, diazo-based systems with lower archival lives (20 years) are preferable, because they have polyester or epoxy surfaces.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microfiche

[Longhorn79]

29. Are you going to put quotes around that paragraph?

[Thor_MN]

65. Not to mention that any sane system has one or more masters that are used

to create the rolls that are actually used on a regular basis and is not stored in the same place. So if and when the "public" roll is damaged beyond being useful, you go back to the master to print another roll. So for ALL the info to be destroyed, you have to kill a couple of public rolls and the master(s) all at the same time. It would be virtually impossible (or horribly incompetant) for just a couple rolls to be destroyed. I can see a tornado or fire taking out an entire building, but the story they put out was bushit from the begining.

Here's to rolling back *'s excutive order that wiped out the 12 year release of presidential papers, one of the few lessons learned from Watergate.

[Joanne98]

4. Okay we need to search

Hubbard said that after the Pentagon announced two weeks ago that the records were lost, officials went back to double check, and found an "unlabeled binder" that led them to the right place.

All the unlabeled binders in the country. lol

[Media_Lies_Daily]

40. They probably found the binder in one of Karl Rove's desk drawers.

[TheDebbieDee]

71. Or maybe.........................

they were found shoved into his underwear "drawers". ;^)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. Sorry, this is bull

I'm a genealogist, and in the course of my research I've requested the full military records of several ancestors, sometimes only knowing their name and the state in which they lived. I've gotten ALL the paperwork, including payroll stubs, from each person. It has taken no more than two months each time. And I'm not talking about Viet Nam. I'm talking the Civil War. If the National Archives can find those records, I know it should be a piece of cake to find Bush's.

[Cha]

15. Unless, of course, they want to hide them and

then it's a whole other story...and we all know how good they can be at Hiding.

[Jade Fox]

6. If he wasn't paid, he wasn't there and he was AWOL!

How can it be any clearer?

What do you suppose they will come up with to rationalize him not
getting paid?

[leesa]

66. If they say it was because he was already too obscenely rich, it would

blow his 'Crawford Cover'

[lazarus]

7. Ruggerson

According to DU rules for LBN, please provide a link and edit your post to less than 4 paragraphs.

[ruggerson]

8. Here ya go: http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=

[ruggerson]

9. Link here

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=5761856&pageNumber=1

[BattyDem]

10. I love this line:

"Bush's military records seem to show up as randomly as he did for duty"



Have you noticed that lately, the Dems have gotten really good at slamming Shrub with quick, one-liners? They've got the same brilliant mix of truth and sarcasm that Sharpton had during the debates. I wonder if he's doing a little freelance writing? :evilgrin:

In any case, these records don't prove he showed up ... and we all know that if he did show up for duty, the records would have been released ages ago and this wouldn't even be an issue now. I'd love to see him try to fake the Alabama records - the Bushies don't seem to understand that thanks to F9/11, people now see the manipulation for what it is ... and the independents aren't buying his bullsh*t anymore.

[Joanne98]

11. Here's a good website

http://www.awolbush.com/

[RebelYell]

12. Hmmmm

I read somewhere that he few flights to and from South America. Google Operation Condor.

Tropical plants my ass.

http://www.madcowprod.com/mc4612004.html

Edited to add link

[AirAmFan]

42. Interesting angle. Everybody assumes Dubya's community service was

for simple cocaine POSSESSION. But what if his drug involvement was more serious? He could have been a drug DEALER, or a drug SMUGGLER. The "plant nursery" stuff you find in researching Dubya's AWOL reallly does seem out of place and a cover for something else. You're suggesting what that something else might be.

[Joanne98]

13. I'm linking the two AWOL threads together

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=705196&mesg_id=705196&page=

I hope nobody minds.

[drscm]

16. This is so like everything else in *Bush's administration:

"The Pentagon had announced on July 9 that microfilm payroll records of large numbers of service members, including Bush, were ruined in 1996 and 1997 in a project to save large, brittle rolls of microfilm."

To Save It, Destroy It!

[salvorhardin]

18. To save it, destroy it!

Right, just like reading out the database containing foreign campaign contributors would cause it to self-destruct.

[PDX Bara]

48. And the Environment...

"To save it, destroy it."

[Zorra]

69. That is a great summation of AWOL's environmental policy.

[aquart]

22. And every archivist in the nation said "Pasture pastry!"

Or some literate equivalent.

It may be worth noting that the librarians were already pretty ticked off over the Patriot Act.

[Cassandra]

17. Lovely Op-ed about military records in the NYTimes today...

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/23/opinion/23alex.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1090632394-D18q912pTx+xKds73zKF+g

"Timing aside, the disappearance of Mr. Bush's service records is important for reasons that go beyond mere politics. Military records are a cornerstone of a nation's archival history. Buried among the lost papers are the records of other men, in whom other researchers at another time might be interested, whose simple facts of service might contribute to the building of a larger historical picture that could clarify the stories spun by the politics of the time.

Clearly the Department of Defense needs to raise the standard of its record-keeping. Perhaps future records should be kept on foolscap paper tied with ribbon: these seem to last for centuries."

I posted this in the Editorials Forum, but it was ignored. :-(

[Nambe]

19. Like she said, the loss of these records was INcredible.

If those would have been Martha Stewarts records, she would have been executed by now!!!!

I am interested in the release coming from Reuters! It was AP that sought and received the records via court order. In my years of being a newsHOund, I found AP to be slightly biased while the French/British section of Reuters was quick to ignore politics and print facts. It seems AP sifted the soil and Reuters threw the stone. Interesting!

[GoldenOldie]

20. DU are terrific investigators

I have worked for the US Army Medical and am aware of military records but I am really getting an education here.

One thing that bothers me is.....George W. Bush was a young man who enjoyed the booze and many have often stated during his campaigning and his Presidency, that "he is someone you would like to have a beer with." My question is: where are all those comrade-in-arms that he served with during his Guard duty, in Texas or Alabama? Surely someone would come forward to declare that they served with him and he is now The President of the United States and The Commander in Chief. Most men and women would be proud to have been a comrade and would be willing to defend and support his service along side them in the Guard during a major historical time.

As a pilot, he had fellow pilots along with those mechanics that serviced and maintained their planes. As an officer he had personnel that he led. Why are they not coming forward to defend his military record?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

25. You won't find any people in Alabama that remember FratBoy....

...because he was never here. An Alabama veterans' group offered a reward several years ago to anyone willing to step up and state where and when they knew FratBoy in the National Guard. The money is still unclaimed to this day.

Now, Texas might be a different story, but his closest friend from the Texas Air National Guard, James Bath, is also mentioned rather prominently in Fahrenheit 911.

[newscaster]

28. i AM A FORMER MILITARY PILOT DURING VIETNAM.

MORE THAN THIRTY YEARS LATER, I AM STILL IN TOUCH WITH FORMER FLIGHT AND GROUND CREWMEN. iTS AMAZING THAT BUSH KNEW NO ONE AND NO ONE SEEMS TO HAVE KNOWN HIM.

[underpants]

35. Well I can't say that I stayed in touch with anyone from my Army years

Of course we didn't go through a WAR together but still if anyone I served with was running (or will run) for such an office I surely would in some way brag on them. Just like anyone from a famous person's hometown (or the hometown of their spouse) tells everyone about how they knew him/her and their school years together, etc.

But no one NOT ONE PERSON is doing that with Bush. It isn't like it's "liberal Massachusetts" or anything this is ALA-freakin'-BAMA for crying out loud. They got one guy (Calhoun) to say he remembered sitting in an office and reading training manuals with W but the dates he gave didn't match up and the image of W sitting a reading couldn't even register on the BS meter.

NOT ONE PERSON? Puuuuuuuuhhhhhhhlease.

[alfredo]

47. I have been out for 35 years and i am still in touch with

my army buddies. They can vouch for my whereabouts through three assignments. We did drink a lot. None of us danced nude on top of tables, or smuggled "plants" in military aircraft.

[Catfight]

50. Insannity, O'Leilly and Gush won't talk about this will they! They

wouldn't even DARE mention it because they'd be fools now wouldn't they?

[Zorra]

64. O'Reilly supports the war, but wouldn't send his kids to fight in it.

MM asked him if he would sacrifice his kids in Iraq. O'Reilly wouldn't answer.

Just our kids.

[truthspeaker]

52. I assume it's because you didn't alienate them by being a drunk asshole

Completely different situation! ;)

[mike1963]

26. Erm, how old are the Dead Sea Scrolls?............

:eyes:

[stableRadical]

21. The problem is that they don't dispell them either

Reuters needs to get on the Kerry bandwagon and prove Bush was AWOL.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

24. What more do you need? Oh, maybe you're referring to the...

...community service he was doing in Houston in 1972 (coincidently at the very same time as the gap in his records...imagine that!) to get a coke conviction expunged from his record. Poppy found a friendly judge to make all of that happen (again...imagine that!).

Oh, by the way, FratBoy had his Texas drivers license number changed about two years before he began running for dicta...er...president. Makes you wonder what he was trying to hide, doesn't it?

[Zorra]

56. Maybe Bu$h should 'fess up. Just tell the truth, and be able to back it

up with proof if he wasn't AWOL.

If he really was AWOL, he should just admit it. People might have more respect for him if he admitted he ran away. Everyone already believes that Bu$h was AWOL because he was desperately concealing this information for so long.

Maybe if he came clean, told everyone that he was simply partying down in Mexico with Rosa or whatever during the time when nobody knows where he was, and simply skipped out because he was bored with the National Guard, he could at least retain some measure of respect.

Heck, service in the National Guard would probably be boring for me, too.

[Zorra]

72. Maybe they are waiting for an explanation from Bu$h first. n/t

[Hekate]

27. "looked in the wrong place" -- where the sun don't shine

"He said officials had previously looked in the wrong place for the records relating to the first quarter of 1969 and the third quarter of 1972, and concluded incorrectly that they had been destroyed."

I dunno, folks -- you'da thunk the Bushies could have manufactured a pretty good set of records by this time. The fact that they apparently have not fully covered this detail (yet) gives me hope that there are definite chinks in the castle walls of the BFEE, through which the sun does and will shine.

Hekate
"Let the sun shine in"

[Mokito]

30. vis-Ã -vis

The Excuse:

He said officials had previously looked in the wrong place for the records relating to the first quarter of 1969 and the third quarter of 1972, and concluded incorrectly that they had been destroyed.

The Reality:

Someone in the Pentagon finally realized how utterly moronic their the-microfilm-was-accidentally-destroyed-spin sounded.

[Gyre]

31. On the contrary, they seem to corroborate it.

Boychimp really must've pissed somebody off in the Pentagon. Bummer.:)

Gyre

[underpants]

34. How? and yes the brass in the Pentagon can't stand W or Rummy

I don't see how this corroborates anything except that now W finds himself in the "prove you didn't do it" situation that was used to propel us into a war and 905 American deaths, not that W seems to give a rat's a**.

Welcome to DU Gyre :hi:

Several stories have come out (mostly in between the lines) that the Pentagon brass can't stand W and Rummy in particular. Apparently at one point Rummy challenged their patriotism for not wholly supporting what everyone knew was a STooooooPID idea (War in Iraq). Shinseki quit/was forced out on the eve of war, that is a red flag for how opposed those in the know were to this misguided ill-planned unnecessary distracting war.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

38. How? You only get paid for the days that you're present for duty...

...did you notice that 5-6 month gap in his pay record? Where was he? Why wasn't he performing his duty?

[TryingToWarnYou]

32. Welp, you only get paid for days you were there, so this looks bad for *

How tewwible....

[underpants]

33. You gotta LOVE this quote from WH spokesman Trent Duffy

The documents released on Friday by the Pentagon included two faded computerized payroll sheets showing Bush was not paid during the latter part of 1972 and offer no evidence to place Bush in Alabama during the latter part of 1972.

Still, White House spokesman Trent Duffy said: "They show the president served in the military and completed his service, which is why he received an honorable discharge."

[Media_Lies_Daily]

39. He got his honorable discharge because Poppy pulled some more....

...strings for his wayward son.

[truthspeaker]

53. So what? My buddy who smoked pot on a helicarrier got an honorable

General discharges are often changed to honorable later if certain conditions are met.

[Aunt Anti-bush]

36. Of course they cannot dispel it.

If * was an honest president and had nothing to hide when these allegations FIRST arose, he'd have made damn sure to release anything and everything. It is obvious he's hiding something. I think the right thing to do would be for him to admit to the truth and lay this to rest, but he wont, I am sure.

[Zorra]

67. Republican ethics: If it's true, spin it or hide it.

It's the only way they can exist.

[Cocoa]

37. Michael Moore: 1

Peter Jennings: 0

[SpiralHawk]

41. American People - OOOO

Because we have this AWOL dweeb pretending to be the Commander in Chief of the nation, and telling Big Lies to lead us into an ugly war for no good reason.

Over 900 of our sons and daughters killed for his ugly lies.

[Zorra]

43. Kick

:hi:

[bagnana]

44. Headline should be; Bush's payroll records support AWOL

accusation. His payroll records show that he was not paid for 5 months of duty when he claims to have shown up and participated in drills in Alabama. These records indicate he was LYING. He should be forced to answer some goddamm questions!

[Zorra]

45. public service kick due to lack of media coverage

[Zorra]

46. AWOL.

:hi:

[bagnana]

49. ALL WRITTEN RECORDS INDICATE BUSH WAS AWOL

for five months. All written history of Bush's participation indicates he was awol for five months. But we are supposed to believe he showed up and participated in drills FOR FREE??? He was awol awol awol awol awol.

[tom_paine]

51. Of course they don't. Does it matter? Will Corporate TV Pravda

discuss it with 1/20th the intensity they discussed Theresa Heinz-Kerry's "shove it" remark...

[0007]

54. Reuters is nothing but a propaganda rag for the White House

[0007]

55. ON GUARD -- OR AWOL?

"Two members of the Air National Guard unit that President George W. Bush allegedly served with as a young Guard flyer in 1972 had been told to expect him late in that year and were on the lookout for him. He never showed, however; of that both Bob Mintz and Paul Bishop are certain.

Recalls Memphian Mintz, now 62: “I remember that I heard someone was coming to drill with us from Texas. And it was implied that it was somebody with political influence. I was a young bachelor then. I was looking for somebody to prowl around with.” But, says Mintz, that “somebody” -- better known to the world now as the president of the United States -- never showed up at Dannelly in 1972. Nor in 1973, nor at any time that Mintz, a FedEx pilot now and an Eastern Airlines pilot then, when he was a reserve first lieutenant at Dannelly, can remember.

Part of the problem, Bishop thinks, is a disconnect resulting from the president’s own inexperience with combat operations. And he is well beyond annoyed at the White House’s persistent claims that Bush did indeed serve time at Dannelly. Bishop didn’t pay much attention to the claim when candidate Bush first offered it in 2000. But he did after the second Iraq war started and the issue came front and center."

More.....a great read

http://www.memphisflyer.com/content.asp?ID=2837&onthefly=1

[Th1onein]

57. This needs to be FRONT PAGE news!

He was a DESERTER during war time. Why aren't the major networks reporting this?

[Zorra]

58. I totally agree.

:kick:

[robertpaulsen]

59. Kick this to the top!

:kick:

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

60. Maybe Bush can come up with records of a pedicure at the base PX

during his missing time, to go along with his heroic visit to the dentist.

[TacticalPeek]

61. Press closing in on ancient story!

:kick:

[SpiralHawk]

62. Press backing off of Uncomfortable Truth

Bush was AWOL. It bears repeating.

[Zorra]

63. freeper enlightenment kick.

[Stockholm]

68. Would love for these AWOL papers to turn up just before

the election.

Someone should tell Bush:

You either did your duty or went awol. Before this and this date supply evidence of your innocence or withdraw from the presidential race.

[Tight_rope]

70. Well Well Well...look what showed up...just in time to save the day!

I still believe that those records were changed. It's just to convenient the way the records were said to have been destroyed and then all of a sudden the records just walk up and say here "I am".

IMO: these records are fake. Just like Bush.