ACLU Sues Ohio Over Punch Card Ballots

[DoYouEverWonder]

July 26, 2004

CLEVELAND -- The hanging chad -- that much maligned product of punch-card voting -- is on its way to a court room in Ohio.

The American Civil Liberties Union has sued the state for sticking with the same elderly technology that bewildered many Americans during the 2000 presidential election. The trial, set to begin Monday, is the first in the nation, voting experts say.

The ACLU wants all punch-card ballots in the state removed before November, saying the system causes errors that lead to undercounting of minority group votes. But even a victory would be unlikely to bring change before this year's presidential election because there would be too little time to make a conversion.

Ohio is one of a handful of states that still use mostly punch-cards. The ballots are used in 69 of Ohio's 88 counties, representing nearly 73 percent of registered voters. In the 2000 presidential election, nearly 94,000 Ohioans had their ballots rejected.


http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-punch-card-lawsuit,0,475399.story?coll=sns-ap-nation-headlines

[Judi Lynn]

1. Piling on your subject with a related article!

Article published Monday, July 26, 2004

Court challenge of Ohio punch-card ballot to be nation's 1st

Associated Press


CLEVELAND - Four years after Florida's hanging chads captivated a nation and less than 100 days before what could be another tight presidential race, Ohio's punch-card voting system is being challenged in court.

The trial, scheduled to begin today, is the first in the nation, voting experts say. Lawsuits filed by the American Civil Liberties Union against several other states have been settled with agreements that punch-card ballots will be replaced.

But even a victory by the ACLU in this swing state would be unlikely to bring change before this year's presidential election because there would be too little time to make a conversion, experts said.

The ACLU wants all punch-card ballots in the state removed before November, saying the system is antiquated and causes errors that lead to undercounting of minority group votes.
(snip/...)

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040726/NEWS08/407260345/-1/NEWS

Great news, isn't it? Hope this gets a decent resolution.

[DoYouEverWonder]

2. Why is the ACLU doing this now?

Is this because, Ohio decided not to use the touchscreen systems?

[Judi Lynn]

4. This might have something to do with it. It's a coupla days old.

ACLU claims punch ballots unfair to blacks
Saturday, July 24, 2004 By SHANE HOOVER Repository staff writer

CANTON — Deciding whether chad, hanging or otherwise, will be part of elections in Ohio will sit with a federal judge next week.

A trial pitting the American Civil Liberties Union against Ohio Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell and state and county election officials is set to begin Monday in federal district court in Akron. The ACLU filed its suit in October 2002 on behalf of voters from Summit, Montgomery, Hamilton and Sandusky counties. It claims that punch-card and some optical-scan voting systems are unfair, particularly to black residents.

Voters can’t easily check for mistakes before submitting their ballots, thus making the ballots more likely to be disqualified, the ACLU claims.And that disproportionately penalizes black residents, because they often live and vote in election jurisdictions that use the flawed systems, the lawsuit says.

The ACLU wants the state to stop using the machines and switch to other methods, such as electronic voting or optical-scan systems that count votes at the precinct level, because they let voters know when a ballot has a mistake.
(snip/...)

http://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?ID=173678&r=0&Category=11
(Free registration required, I believe)

[DoYouEverWonder]

5. So if the ACLU filed this suit two years ago

Did they also file suit in all the other states that still had punch cards and/or optical scanners, or did they only do this in Ohio?

I'm just wondering what the implications might be for other states?

[Judi Lynn]

7. A really superficial look shows they've been busy

in other states. In California, they attempted to stop the recall:

ACLU of Southern California Files Federal Lawsuit Challenging Use of Obsolete "Punch Card" Voting Machines In California Recall Election
Group Charges That Use of "Punch Card" Machines Disenfranchises People of Color Since Outdated Machines Are Used In Counties With High Concentration of Voters of Color
Aug. 07, 2003

http://www.aclu-sc.org/News/Releases/100404/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ACLU Pressures States to Ban Old Voting Systems Despite E-Vote Security Fears

Akron Beacon Journal (Akron, Ohio) 07/08/2004

All it knew was punch-card ballots were to blame for the botched 2000 presidential election. So the ACLU filed lawsuits in Ohio, California, Florida, Georgia, Missouri and Illinois, among other states, demanding they ditch punch cards. On July 26, trial begins in Akron for the ACLU's suit over Ohio's so-called "unequal and inadequate system of voting."

Jul. 8--The American Civil Liberties Union didn't know back in 2001 that the public's confidence in electronic voting would wilt under constant criticism.

All it knew was punch-card ballots were to blame for the botched 2000 presidential election. Voters were disenfranchised. So the ACLU filed lawsuits in Ohio, California, Florida, Georgia, Missouri and Illinois, among other states, demanding they ditch punch cards. Many states surrendered and rushed to buy electronic voting machines.

Months later, the bottom fell out when tales of security glitches surfaced from computer scientists and legislators. That hasn't fazed the ACLU, though.

On July 26, trial begins in Akron for the ACLU's suit over Ohio's so-called "unequal and inadequate system of voting." The case will be heard in U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Ohio and will last about one week. With appeals, a conclusion probably won't be reached until 2005, though.
(snip/...)

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=12257818&BRD=1711&PAG=740&dept_id=226964&rfi=6

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'll bet this is something Bev Harris or Andy Stephenson and really informed people could explain a lot. Looks like ACLU isn't going to let this go, any time soon. I wish them luck.

They are up against some real monsters.

[Kolesar]

3. Our voting system's goal seems to be to get the poll workers home &in bed

We rely upon all this techno-automation to complete balloting so that the poll workers can get home and in bed at a decent hour. Considering that they start at 6:30 am, that is laudable. I have heard poll workers talk about how quickly they get done with tabulation with the Sequoia EVMs in my county.

However, the goal should be accuracy. Boards of Elections should hire two shifts of poll workers and have the second shift plan to work into the wee hours if necessary.

I think the most reproducible balloting would be to go to paper ballots and count them by hand. I'll wait until Wednesday for results.

[loudsue]

6. I TOTALLY agree, Spike Trees! Paper Ballots!! Paper Ballots!!!

What DOESN'T the ACLU understand about the disenfranchisement of ALL American voters with these new black boxes? The older methods of counting ballots is more accurate, and not AS corruptible as the new methods.

Not only are African Americans being disenfranchised, but ALL of us are being disenfranchised by these new black boxes. We need the votes of ALL Americans, tabulated AND AUDITED, at multiple check points....AT THE VERY LEAST as secure as a bank deposit.

Laziness and the "convenience" of poll workers is

NOT

and issue in an election!! There are enough people in this country that care about Democracy, that we will FIND workers to do a second shift. I'd MUCH rather have accurate elections than instant results, which only are a convenience to the news networks.

AND I SURE AS HELL DON'T WANT THE AMERIKAN NEWS (?) NETWORKS TO BE DETERMINING OUR VOTING PROCEDURES!!!!

:kick::kick::kick::kick:

[DoYouEverWonder]

8. Paper ballots and manual counts

and who cares how long it takes?

Even if it takes 2 weeks to count all the ballots (which it won't) who cares? As long as the citizens can be assured that all of the votes are counted and counted accurately.

[leftchick]

14. 2 weeks to count ballots is a lot less time than MONTHS of...

Litigation because of the DREs malfunctioning, among many potential problems. As Bev Harris says, the 2004 election is a train wreck ready to happen without proper auditing controls... :grr:

[DoYouEverWonder]

15. But that's exactly what Bu$hCo wants

months of litigation.

Even if Kerry wins, that want people to doubt he really won. Then the corporate controlled media can call him illegitimate for the next four years.

[leftchick]

16. Agreed DYEW....

I have realized their strategy for at least the last year now.
deja vu all over again... :( :grr: :(

[Zorra]

18. Yeah. Paper ballots made from recycled paper.

:thumbsup:

[Jim Sagle]

9. The ACLU are dangerous fools.

[tlcandie]

11. LoL ...

eom

[mom cat]

10. One thing that we CAN do is insist on pre election cleaning of ALL

punch card boxes. I can still remember, as if it was yesterday, watching the hearing where the random punch card box was opened in court. Remember the chads that spued forth as the box was opened? That is what happens if they are not properly cleaned. We may not be able to get rid of these machines before November, but we can make sure that they are cleaned out in advance. This will at least maximize their reliability where it counts. :dem:

[stickdog]

13. Exactly. This system doesn't have to be so unreliable.

And at least there's a paper record.

If we would just publish results, total sign ins, total undervotes, total overvotes and total spoils BY PRECINCT, many of the worst problems would have been cleared up already.

[stickdog]

12. Out of the frying pan and into the aether ...

[Trajan]

17. Note: DIVIDE the question ....

1) Use Computerized Ballot machines to produce READABLE ballots that cannot be mistaken ... Punch cards are NOT necessary: use these 'touchscreens' to produce READABLE ballots that are then printed and released BACK into the custody of the voter who can then VERIFY that ballot before dropping it into a locked ballot box ...

2) Now: Count the ballots ....

By machine ? ... VERIFY it is the PROPER machine software, the PROPER software version, and that all ballots are LOCALLY counted before being transmitted to a centrol tabulation facility AFTER the polls close .... with the ballots PHYSICALLY maintained and protected for recounts, if necessary ...

Using touchscreens to vote isnt the problem: trying to use them to COUNT the ballots is the problem ...

Voter Verified Ballots, available for random spot counts or recounts as necessary .... with Open source tabulation mechanisms verified, sealed and under strict custody controls, and which count ONLY local ballots, and that do NOT transmit it's counts to a central tabulator until after the polls close ...

This isnt brain surgery ....

[slaveplanet]

19. This is an insane waste of time

Cuyahoga almost always goes dem for just about everything . for a pres election they can pre chalk the whole county for Kerry.

The elites want these machines in BAD...they could then monkey with the neverending propositions they want to ram down the poor's throats. The repug machine has destroyed Ohio. The ACLU needs to find other trees to bark up.