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Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-04 10:42 AM
Original message
Gay marriage fight takes shape | The Oregonian
Gay marriage fight takes shape
Both sides begin seeking support with dire warnings about the outcome of a ballot measure to ban same-sex marriage


Saturday, July 31, 2004
BILL GRAVES

If a measure barring same-sex marriages fails, public schools will be forced to teach homosexuality as a legitimate option and "family, education and society will never be the same," warn supporters.

If voters approve the measure, opponents counter, it will write discrimination into the Oregon Constitution and "marriage equality will be set back for years to come."

Those are some of the dire predictions emerging in fund-raising letters as the warring camps gear up for what promises to be one of the most expensive ballot initiative campaigns in Oregon history. Measure 36 on the Nov. 2 ballot would amend the state constitution to declare only marriage between one man and one woman as valid and legal.

The Defense of Marriage Coalition successfully placed the measure on the fall ballot this week by drawing heavily on churches to collect more than 240,000 signatures.

More at the Oregonian
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Red_Viking Donating Member (903 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-04 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. I moved to Oregon in July
I'm a lifelong Texan, but moved to attend school. I thought I was coming to a more progressive environment, and in so many ways it's leaps and bounds ahead of even Austin, where I'm from. But then I see things like this in the paper and I say "WTF?" I can't imagine this passing. There seem to be too many liberal, progressive, human voices out here to let discrimination be written into the state constitution.

Should get interesting, though!

Thanks for the info.

:dem:

RV
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Spangle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-04 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Fear of change
What you see are the changes all ready made. This issue is about change when it comes to educating the kidos. I had never thought about it until this was posted today.

I'm personaly scared of what they will teach my kids. Not what some might think here. Not afraid of teaching that marriage is a bond between to people. What I'm afraid of is an agenda that forces teacher to teach in a way they disapprove of. BEFORE people are ready for it. By the time "it's ready", damage has been done. When rules came down about NOT teaching any form of religan, it seemed that teachers THEN went out of their way to express it, or bash the fact that they couldn't. Heard some twisted stuff that I had never heard before and didn't agree with then or now. THAT is the kind of stuff that I'm talking about me personally fearing.

On a personal note, I don't see why this should change things in school. It use to be said that inter race marriages would be an issue and kids would have problems, etc. But it hasn't happened. Younger kids do draw pictures of their familys. Kids accept. And family titles are used to teach kids to spell, read, etc. But not everyone has grandparents or knows theirs. Single kids don't always have a mom or a dad. But just like kids from one family homes had to endure not seeing a copy of their familys in books for a long time, I really think that kids from same sex familys will deal with it just fine, until things work it's self out naturaly. And I mean by naturaly by finding the right way, words, etc.. That will work with everyone, not objectable, etc.

People are just freaked right now. And NOT discussing it leaves them OPEN to being freaked. Open to listen to this kind of wacko type of talk.

ps. I'm a "second mother" to lots of kids. And growing up, I use to adopt close adults as second mothers or fathers. My kids have done that with certian adults. It takes a village. Having 2 dads or 2 moms are commen now with so many divorcing parents. Again, where is the issue exactly??

This ban on gay marriage the the opposition to it just totaly floors me. I just don't see the problem. What I do see is alot of people are open to myths and bias because the topic really isn't discussed openly. Some because they are afraid to discuss it out of fear of pissing someone off. Yep, I've seen that. So they don't open the topic and learn about things. People are afraid of showing their ignorance publicly.
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ploppy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-04 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. There is an ugly rw
side of Oregon - Lon Mabon and the OCA for one. They spew hatred to make money for themselves and to scare people into thinking the same twisted way they do.
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-04 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Welcome to Oregon
I'm a lifer here. To learn more about the anti-gay movement here, I recommend this movie:



:hi:
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qwlauren35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-04 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
4. I know what MY fears are....
In another forum, someone posted a list of some of the things that get taught in Massachusetts schools. It was SHOCKING. The mechanics of sodomy for example... with pictures. (it was a high school...)

I don't even expect schools to show pictures of STRAIGHT sex, let alone gay sex.

Not only am I concerned that anti-gay marriage folks will get their hands on this... I'm terribly afraid that the Repubs will use this to smear Kerry.

I'll have to go get the stuff so that people can see what I'm talking about.
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qwlauren35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-04 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. It's 1984 and Big Brother is Gay...
The article is unquestionably biased. But it makes ONE extremely valid point. In all too many situations, parents who did not want their children exposed to some of the more "extreme" or "explicit" information around sexuality, they had NO RECOURSE (other than putting kids in private school.)

It's been a long time since I was in high school, so I have no idea what they teach today. But some of these snippets bothered me.

~~~~~~

http://www.insightmag.com/main.cfm/include/detail/storyid/160271.html

It's 1984 in Massachusetts – And Big Brother Is Gay
Posted Dec. 17, 2001
By John Haskins


When Clossey enrolled her son in Newton North High School's reading program little did she know that the teacher had bragged in the Boston Globe (July 8, 2001) of quietly introducing homosexual and transsexual subjects into his classes. The teacher, Michael Kozuch, handed out The Perks of Being a Wallflower by Stephen Chbosky with instructions to write an essay on it. What literary "treats" did Kozuch consider mandatory for other people's children? Sex between a boy and a dog, man-boy sex, anal sex between boys, male masturbation and female masturbation with a hot dog. By chance Clossey opened the book her son brought home. But what came after that shock was worse: She encountered public officials who saw protective parents as obstacles.

...Freshmen learn about masturbation and sodomy in a required course that uses street language...

... In nearby Brookline a transsexual told first-graders how his penis was cut off and he became a woman. ...

...As reported widely in Massachusetts in 1992, at a required assembly in Chelmsford, an instructor used four-letter words describing the joys of anal and oral sex. The children then licked condoms. ... In Lexington, a parent discovered that her 13-year-old could borrow a book telling how gay men at the opera can socialize with "the backs of their trousers discreetly parted so they could experience a little extra pleasure while viewing the spectacle on stage." Her school purchased it with health funds.

...• Silver Lake's freshman health text says: "Testing your ability to function sexually and give pleasure to another person may be less threatening in the early teens with people of your own sex." And, "You may come to the conclusion that growing up means rejecting the values of your parents." Pupils were ordered to keep the book at school and never take it home.
• Needham High School violated the parents'-rights law by concealing from parents a schoolwide assembly in which a girl described her first lesbian kiss and rhapsodized about lesbianism. Teachers continued the discussion in homeroom. They also broke the law by failing to tell pupils of their right not to attend. Later, the gay club's faculty adviser announced, in poor English, that parents' decisions to remove their children next year would not be honored, as the "assembly (taught no) moral or religious beliefs."

Clossey got a letter from the district attorney informing her that Massachusetts schools, libraries and museums are immune from laws against exposing children to pornography.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I like to think of myself as a pretty liberal person. But I don't think you tell 1st graders about surgically removing your penis, and I think you should let high schoolers discover the mechanics of sex on their own. I certainly don't think they should be licking condoms in class assembly, and I'm horrified to hear that parents aren't notified, or WORSE STILL, parents' wishes aren't honored.

I see this as a state matter, and hopefully, Massachusetts has "addressed" it. But I wouldn't be surprised to find this lovely piece circulated widely enough to scare a LOT of conservative parents out of voting for Kerry.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-01-04 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. The rightwing accusations are certainly shocking ...

... but I have real trouble believing that these sensational accusations are true. I've watch the wingnuts for too long: their stories often have the credibility of National Enquirer UFO tales.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-01-04 04:47 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. You're quoting a Moonie source.
I would approach it with great caution.
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WindRavenX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-01-04 03:36 AM
Response to Original message
8. Thank goodness I am registered to vote in OR
Because I am voting this shit down faster than you can blink...:mad: :mad: :mad:
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-01-04 04:00 AM
Response to Original message
9. This is the fight in Oregon
I think this will draw alot of right wingers who otherwise would stay home. What was that Lincoln quote? "better angels of our nature" I hope we can touch that "mystic chord" and convince people building family is always the better choice.
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