Bush and Kerry Get 'Graded' at the Presidential Debates(bush sixth grade)

[RedEarth]

NEW YORK, Oct. 1 /PRNewswire/ -- The Princeton Review analyzed the language skills used by the presidential candidates in their first debate, and compared the results to other landmark presidential debates. The bottom line? Both Bush and Kerry spoke to Americans last night as if the voters were school children -- middle schoolers to be precise.

Though he wins points for strong topic sentences with good supporting statements, George W. Bush spoke at a level that most sixth graders could understand. Kerry, known for his meandering sentences and regular use of SAT vocabulary, faired a bit better than the Commander-in-Chief coming in at the 7th grade level.

With these grade level ratings, the candidates may have had the least sophisticated debate in history. The Lincoln/Douglas debates of 1858 used language ranked at the 11th grade and 12th grade level, respectively. Kennedy and Nixon averaged around the 10th grade level. And just four years ago, Al Gore spoke at the 7th (almost 8th) grade level while Bush stayed the course on his 6th grade level. This year's debate simply provided more of the same.

The Princeton Review graded the debates by using techniques that help evaluate mastery of the language. The first, the Flesch-Kinkaid Index, is a test developed by the Defense Dept to evaluate whether reading materials are appropriate for an audience. The grade level indicates the minimum education level required for a reader to understand a document - on a scale of zero to 12.






http://interestalert.com/brand/siteia.shtml?Story=st/sn/1001000aaaa01f50.prn&Sys=siteia&Fid=POLITICS&Type=News&Filter=Politics

[Dem Agog]

1. Isn't that a shame?

* spoke that way because that's where his intellect is. JK spoke that way because he knows how dumb Americans are and was trying to connect with them.

I hate that our politicians have to speak at a level that would indicate an adult was borderline-retarded, but it's the only way to convey your message to the mentally inept masses who live here.

Anything remotely complex and the monkey population starts screaming "elitist!" and freaks out.

[soleft]

2. Excellent point

[displacedtexan]

3. had Adlai Stevenson known about the Flesch-Kincaid...

grade level analysis tool, he would have won handily in the 50's!

Kudos to JK for beating the freak monkey at his own game!

[Longhorn]

29. Exactly! If Kerry had spoken at his level of intellect

he would have been cricized across the board for "talking down" to Americans. Bush* definitely brought the level of the discussion down.

[SemperEadem]

30. no kidding..

going by the comments made last week about Cornell West, I'd say that you are spot on in your insight.

[TriMetFan]

4. Goes to show you that they think we are dumb.

And thats why Bush wins, cause most Americans thats how they speak, 6 grade level. I hear them on my bus every day. If it isn't F*ck this, its F*ck that or Sh*t.

[w4rma]

9. Most people ARE dumb. (nt)

[meow2u3]

5. Given that the mentality of the average American is that of a 12-year-old,

I'm not surprised in the least!

[Bread and Circus]

6. This is useless bullshit. The fact that they think "grade levels"

mean anything means they should get their own heads examined.

What a waste of time.

[w4rma]

10. It actually does. It means our education system needs more resources. (nt)

[LiberalFighter]

39. Must be why gw* cut the funding for NCLB

[Tommy_Douglas]

11. Yeah that is a stupid study...

Watch the debate again and you'll see a much wider gap then one guy talking seventh grade and the other talking sixth grade.

And Kerry had to keep it simple. Part of the lefts problems is giving complex answers to complex problems. People don't like that sort of stuff.

Keep it simple for the debates and speeches and get complex when you're president and dealing with this stuff.

[TaleWgnDg]

15. that's a sad statement. true but sad as hell.

in America, in order to be president, one must speak in monosyllabic droll and in simplistic sentence structure!

America doesn't strive to pull up the intellect but to pull it down.

Fantastic.

[sweetheart]

35. and the princeton review are a lot of skivers

This is that buncha jokers behind the SAT and the presumption that
knowledge is "standardized testing". The rot of america is well
embodied in this organization and their puerile judgement of what
knowledge is.

Fuck the SAT, the ACT, the GMAT, the LSAT and all the other blowjob
attempts to turn knowledge in to multiple choice exams.

After a lifetime of that crap, i attended university in britain and
was judged soley by my ability to write essays... forumlating 100%
of my views in a complex form without an A, B, C, D or E answer.

It strikes me that the princeton review would define an expert
bicycle rider who did not know the names of the parts of the
bicycle "stupid". What a bunch of assholes.

They're about as trustworthy as tony blair. You can count on them
for a lie and a good bullshit story.

Bottom line, Kerry won, 'cuz he spoke from the heart,
and 'cuz he REALLY loves America and its values.

[TaleWgnDg]

7. hhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm . . .

I'll run the transcript through my Office Word spell and grammar check. It has the Flesch-Kinkaid Index. Damn. What fun!

And, thanks.

[Quetzal]

8. No $h!t

My Republican Speech Teacher in 9th grade would have failed * @$$ for using so many fillers (i.e. umm, like, etc.).

[gratuitous]

12. Another distinction between the candidates

Kerry dumbed his discourse down to 7th grade level, about as low as he could go. Bush was operating at peak efficiency to achieve a 6th grade level.

[lawladyprof]

13. Article isn't written so well itself

"faired a bit better than the Commander-in-Chief coming in at the 7th grade level."

That would be "fared a bit better" <sigh>

[TaleWgnDg]

14. in all sincerity . . . the average newspaper in America addresses

an audience at the 6th grade reading level. Some papers are a bit more but not many. GWBush speaks in monosyllabic 4th grade level. I sure don't see him at the 6th grade level.

And John Kerry toned down his word usage and sentence structure deliberately. He had to do it.

No, don't take it negatively that Kerry was forced to do this. Blame the so-called "news" media who refuse to give Kerry the space and time required for more than 6th or 7th or 8th grade-speak.

[demnan]

16. First they beat Kerry down because his language

is too high falut'in. Then when he gets more direct, they say he's simple.

Sigh!

They're just so pissed their monkey got trounced!

[BootinUp]

17. I won't complain, I want to win.

If this is what it takes then so be it. We can work on education after we kick this idiot out of office.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

18. Kerry could have spoken at a College level but Joe Average...

is a MORON, so what do you expect?!? Kerry had to lower himself to win.

[Whoa_Nelly]

19. FAUX NEWS ALERT!

Help change the poll on Faux...they have Bush with lead.

Faux News has Bush with lead in the debate poll.
Bush 41%
Kerry 37%

Go to link below, scroll down, right frame, and vote!

http://www.foxnews.com/

[JimGinPA]

20. 41% of responders to this poll

are liars

[RebelOne]

22. Poll's not there.

Must have been taken down because maybe Kerry was starting to lead.

[Whoa_Nelly]

23. The poll is still there

It's titled: On The Record

[muriel_volestrangler]

24. One suggestion

If the poll definitely isn't there for you, then try opening up a new browser window, and typing 'www.foxnews.com' into it, rather than clicking on the link from DU.

The reason: web servers are given the internet address of a page that gave the link to a new page. It would be possible to program a server to not show a poll to people who follow a link from DU, or any other site (an honest site might do that to any site that refers too many voters to it; a dishonest one might block other sites it doesn't like).

I have no idea if any site does this, let alone whether Fox does; but technically it is possible.

[3113]

25. Not any more--it's now 40 Bush 40 Kerry, w/Kerry up by over 850 votes.

When my mother went to work in the newsroom of the local newspaper 30 years ago, she was told that she had to write at the eighth grade level. That was then, and I would question sixth grade today.

Fact is, most people can't read, and those who can lack the ability to grasp what they read. They are clueless. That's why the bushies don't bother to challenge all the scathing books written about them today. The blind followers don't have a thought of their own, and can't read. This is also why they have attacked Michael Moore's F-911 so feverishly--even morons who can't read can watch a movie. Because they can't attack the content,the only way the bushies can attack F-911 is to convince their brain-dead followers that they should boycott it. God forbid that these morons see or hear anything that just might open their eyes.

------------

Way to go people, Kerry is now up over 1,000

[newyawker99]

37. Hi 3113!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[jimbot]

21. Flesch-Kincaid is for the written word

It was designed a few decades ago by a Naval researcher to analyze the grade level needed to understand a written passage of text. It is an algorithm whose formula is:
Grade level = (0.39 x average sentence length in words) + (11.8 x average number of syllables per word) - 15.59. It is not applicable to the spoken word and has many obvious flaws for analyzing the written word. Restating this paragraph at a grade 4 level for enhanced clarity:
The above article is useless.

--JT

[enki23]

27. thank you. someone needed to say that

.

[qwlauren35]

26. This is good...

We were all worried that Kerry would talk over the heads of the average American. Apparently he didn't.

I'm happy.

[Roy]

28. Impossible to have an intelligent debate...

When only one participant has intelligence.

[Tight_rope]

31. I just love the picture of the Chimp in Chief

[lakemonster11]

32. One is supposed to aim for 7th to 8th grade level.

Well, according to Microsoft Word, which has a tool that will calculate the Flesch-Kincaid grade level for any document, one is supposed to aim for a 7th to 8th grade level most of the time.

Quote:
"For most documents, aim for a score of approximately 7.0 to 8.0."

Look to me like Kerry did fine!


Also according to Word:

"The formula for the Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level score is:

(.39 x ASL) + (11.8 x ASW) – 15.59

where:

ASL = average sentence length (the number of words divided by the number of sentences)

ASW = average number of syllables per word (the number of syllables divided by the number of words)"


In a format where the candidates are given a very limited amount of time to respond, one wouldn't expect their average sentence length to be very long. I imagine Lincoln and Douglass weren't cut off by a blinking red light.

(By the way, this post has a F-K grade level of 12.0!)

[RedEarth]

34. level 12! ....no wonder I didn't understand it....lol

Thanks for your post. I wasn't aware Word had a tool to determine the grade level...interesting.

[davidinalameda]

33. what a sad commentary

on the state of the American public

are we that stupid that we have to be spoken to like we are 12 year olds?

[Amigust]

38. That Stupid? Yes, sad to say, as a whole, we are.

Popular magazines and newspapers know it and write accordingly.

Take a look at the crap that people spend their time watching on TV.

And how else can you explain why nearly half the nation support the thugs now in power, in spite of all that has come to light about them?

[LynnTheDem]

36. That level fits in with the US majority

America is one of the most illiterate of 1st world nations, after all. If Kerry had spoken at a grade 12 level, the rightwingnuts would just have called him "elitist".