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kskiska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-03-04 09:57 PM
Original message
WP: Debate Assumes New Importance
Monday, October 4, 2004; Page A01

Tomorrow's vice presidential debate, which both campaigns once presumed would be a sideshow to the presidential race, has assumed critical importance, with Republicans depending on Vice President Cheney to halt the ticket's slide in momentum.

After what Republicans acknowledge was President Bush's faltering performance in his televised encounter with Democratic nominee John F. Kerry, GOP strategists said Cheney's aim is to return public attention to the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks and the administration's broader handling of the terrorism threat and away from what they called a "second-guessing" debate over the decision to invade Iraq.

A Republican official involved in Cheney's preparation for his encounter with Sen. John Edwards (N.C.) said the vice president will try to bring fresh attention to the themes "that shoot out of the 9/11 set of memories and issues -- preparedness, safety and homeland security."

Kerry's aides are hoping that at the debate in Cleveland, Edwards will summon his skills as a trial lawyer to cast Cheney as the architect of the administration's worst policy judgments, as well as a symbol of corporate excess because of his former position as chief executive of Halliburton, which has received huge Iraq contracts but also faced accusations of improper billing there.

more…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A4587-2004Oct3.html
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Catch22Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-03-04 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. I have a gut feeling about this one
I think we're ALL going to see exactly how Edwards became a millionaire at such a young age.
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Jack from Charlotte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
33. Cheney has a HUGE problem regardless of the skills of the debaters.
He has defend the following....

1 Net jobs lost. 1st since H. Hoover
2 Took the largest budget surplus in history and turned into
the largest deficts in history.
3 Us attacked by Osama Bin Laden so Bush attacked Saddam Husein.

Now, Clarence Friggin' Darrow might have a slight problem with those 3 facts.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #33
44. A few other things Edwards could bring up for Cheney to defend
Edited on Mon Oct-04-04 05:37 PM by Bandit
Cheney: Ousting Saddam in 1991 Would "Not Have Been Easy" -- New Government Difficult to Establish. "There were ample reasons for the first President Bush not to go after Mr. Hussein. The current vice president and then the secretary of defense, Dick Cheney, outlined some of them in an interview with the British Broadcasting Corporation in 1992, when he said: 'If we'd gone to Baghdad and got rid of Saddam Hussein -- assuming we could have found him -- we'd have had to put a lot of forces in and run him to ground someplace. He would not have been easy to capture. Then you've got to put a new government in his place, and then you're faced with the question of what kind of government are you going to establish in Iraq? Is it going to be a Kurdish government, or a Shia government or a Sunni government?' Mr. Cheney continued. 'How many forces are you going to have to leave there to keep it propped up, how many casualties are you going to take through the course of this operation?'"

Cheney Proposed Cutting F-16 Aircraft. In testimony before the House Armed Services Committee, Cheney said, "If you're going to have a smaller air force, you don't need as many F-16s...The F-16D we basically continue to buy and close it out because we're not going to have as big a force structure and we won't need as many F-16s." According to the Boston Globe, Bush's 1991 defense budget "kill 81 programs for potential savings of $ 11.9 billion...Major weapons killed include....the Air Force's F-16 airplane."

Cheney Proposed Cuts to B-2 Program. According to the Boston Globe, in 1990, "Defense Secretary Richard Cheney announced a cutback... of nearly 45 percent in the administration's B-2 Stealth bomber program, from 132 airplanes to 75..."

Cheney Proposed Cutting AH-64 Apaches. In testimony before the Senate Appropriations Committee, Defense Subcommittee, Cheney said, "This is just a list of some of the programs that I've recommended termination: the V-22 Osprey, the F-14D, the Army Helicopter Improvement Program, Phoenix missile, F-15E, the Apache helicopter, the M1 tank, et cetera." In testimony before the House Armed Services Committee, Cheney said, "The Army, as I indicated in my earlier testimony, recommended to me that we keep a robust Apache helicopter program going forward, AH-64...I forced the Army to make choices...So I recommended that we cancel the AH-64 program two years out."

Cheney Proposed Cutting M-1 Abrams Tanks. In testimony before the Senate Appropriations Committee, Defense Subcommittee, Cheney said, "This is just a list of some of the programs that I've recommended termination: the V-22 Osprey, the F-14D, the Army Helicopter Improvement Program, Phoenix missile, F-15E, the Apache helicopter, the M1 tank, et cetera." The Boston Globe reported on the impact of Cheney's cuts to armored tanks: "The Army's cupboard is left particularly bare. Coming in the wake of last year's killing of the M-1 tank and the Apache helicopter, the death of the M-2 means the Army will soon have virtually no major weapons in production."

Cheney Proposed Cutting B-52 Bombers. In 1990, Cheney proposed cutting 14 B-52 bombers. Cheney also sought the retirement of two Navy battleships, two nuclear cruisers, and eight nuclear-powered attack submarines. In 1991, Cheney scrapped the Navy's A-12 Stealth attack plane, a fighter that was proclaimed to be a key part of the future of navy aviation in advanced stealth technology.

Cheney Cut Thousands of Active-Duty, Reserve, and Civilian Forces. In January 1990, Cheney banned the hiring of any new civilian personnel in the Defense Department through the end of September, which left more than 65,000 jobs vacant. Under the budget proposed in 1990, the Pentagon would have reduced active military personnel by 38,000; selected reserves would have fallen by 3,000. The budget called for the deactivation of two Army divisions. Long range, the Pentagon planned to reduce its work force by 300,000, including about 200,000 military personnel and 100,000 civilians. In 1991, he called for reduction of 200,000 active and reserve military personnel over two years. In 1992, Cheney called for cutting 500,000 active-duty people, 200,000 reservists, and 200,000 civilians over five years.

Active-Duty and Reserve Forces Endured Huge Reductions Under Cheney. The LA Times reported in November 1991 that the number of active-duty military personnel had decreased by over 106,000, or 5 percent of the total forces. The National Guard and Reserves had been cut by nearly 38,000, instead of the 105,000 the Bush Administration sought.

Cheney Proposed Over 70 Base Closures. In 1990, Cheney proposed the closure of 72 domestic military installations and 12 overseas facilities. On April 12, 1991, Cheney proposed to close 31 major domestic military bases. The plan also called for shutting 12 smaller bases and reducing operations at 28 others. He submitted his list of closures to a commission on base closings on April 15, 1991. In 1992, Cheney proposed 70 overseas military base closures, three of which were in Turkey.

In 1981, Cheney Voted Against Raising Military Pay for Senior and Junior Enlisted Personnel. In 1981, Cheney voted against an amendment to increase the pay of senior enlisted personnel by 18-22 percent and the basic pay of junior enlisted personnel by 7-9 percent. The amendment was rejected 170-232. <1981 CQ Almanac, p.66-H, vote #192

In 1982, Cheney Voted Against Authorizing Military Pay Raise. In 1982, Cheney voted against the "Uniformed Services Pay Act" which would have authorized a pay raise in FY 1983 for uniformed members of the armed services. The bill would have also restricted the hiring of private contractors to perform Department of Defense services. The vote was a motion to suspend the rules and pass the bill. The motion was rejected 214-186. <1982 CQ Almanac, p.98-H, vote #330>

As Congressman, Cheney Consistently Voted Against Veterans Administration Funding. In 1980, 1981, 1982, 1985, 1986, 1987, and 1988, Cheney was one of a small number of House members to passage of bills that provided funding for the Veterans Administration. In 1983, Cheney voted against bringing a bill to the House floor and paired against House passage of a bill that provided funding for the Veterans Administration. In 1981, Cheney was one of only 41 House members to vote against House passage of a bill that provided business loans and additional educational benefits to Vietnam veterans. In 1983, Cheney was one of only 30 House members to vote against House passage of a bill that would have provided $54 million for Agent Orange studies and $75 million for the Emergency Veterans Jobs Training Act.

Cheney and Bush Campaign Distort Record of Cheney's Deferments. The Washington Post reported in 1991 that Cheney received five deferments, four 2-S student deferments and one under the 3-A classification -- "registrant with a child or children; or registrant deferred by reason of extreme hardship to dependents." In his Senate confirmation hearing, Cheney said he "would have obviously been happy to serve had I been called," which contradicting his earlier statement, "I had other priorities in the '60s than military service." Bush staff members said Cheney received only three deferments, two for school and one for being a new father.

http://www.democrats.org/specialreports/cheney_record/
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-03-04 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. Cheney, the corrupt CEO, is the very embodiment of the adversary
Edited on Sun Oct-03-04 10:02 PM by SoCalDem
that Edwards has fought during his whole career.. His record speaks for itself..

We are the jury...All he has to do is paint the picture of WHO Cheney is, and we will do the rest:)
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-03-04 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. Agree, I think he can turn Cheney into the sourfaced old war monger he
is in the eyes of the American People. The contrast is incredible... Edwards is very upbeat and friendly...Cheney the dark back room lurker...like a gangster in an old 30's movie with the limo waiting to speed him out of town.

I couldn't watch the Kerry/Bush debate...I was too freaked out. But, this is one I can't wait for ...It should be the show of the year!
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JPace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #15
27. Great description of Cheney....
the way he keeps his head down like someone who is never
direct and keeps much hidden and the way he talks out of
one side of his mouth like he won't come out with open
communication....the man is sneaky and scary. He is not
to be underestimated, but like you I think Edward's will
be a real challenge for him. Edward's has that ability
to educate people without them feeling threatened or
inferior. Cheney would scare even the Boogie Man and people
are getting tired of being made to feel fear all the time.
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #27
45. To quote Dick-head himself, "you better watch what you say"
As Ron Kovic told me at a coffee house teach in in Santa Monica before Operation Iraq-nam began, "Who in the hell does he think he is?"
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Peanut Gallery Donating Member (325 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #2
40. Great analogy
n/t
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
41. That's quote correct - it's that nice young People's Lawyer versus
the mean old daddy WARbucks...
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-03-04 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
3. Republicans are going to get a one-two punch. Hopefully JRE will be the
uppercut to the Republicans' glass jaw.
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Infomaniac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-03-04 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
4. I can see the spinmeisters now.
In all past presidential contests, the VP debate has been deemed relatively inconsequential since a VP candidate brings relatively few voters to the ticket. One notable exception was Dan Quayle who appeared to drive voters away once they noticed Dan the Dumb was a heart beat away from the presidency. If Crashcart puts on any kind of a credible performance, the repukes are going to claim victory and spin endlessly about it being the Bush-Cheney ticket. I know, I know. That's what scares us. Funny, how the repukes are trying to use, Cheney, one of the scariest people in politics, to calm people down.
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-03-04 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. he won't
he has been lying his ass off to canned audiences shown on repuke tv. Bush fell flat in a real forum, and so will Cheney. I hope Edwards makes him pay and pay and pay for being the propaganda prostitute of this admin.
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PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-03-04 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. But the people don't see it that way. Cheney is not likes at all....
and Edwards is charming.
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ailsagirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-03-04 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
5. John Edwards
I think if neither candidate said a word, that Edwards would win hands down. Cheney is evil. He looks evil. He says evil things. Edwards is an absolute 180 degrees from Cheney. He's very bright, personable, and relaxed. If anyone heard him on Al Franken's program, they'd know what I mean. Edwards didn't pull any punches-- he said, "Those guys will do anything to keep their jobs." I don't think he has any illusions about them. If I were Cheney (arghh!!) I'd be quaking in my boots!!!

ailsa
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-03-04 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
6. Edwards will bush-slap Cheney up oneside and down the other.
Edwards' challenge is seeming genteel in the appropriate avenue, because underneath he is a redneck pitbull who pulls no punches. I've seen him in action during some of these forums and he is in complete control. I hope he tears Cheney a new asshole, I know he is capable.
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Eye and Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-03-04 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
8. Heart attack on camera.
Edwards "gets him so upset", Cheney fakes a cardiac moment. Thursday debate cancelled for Chimpie, McCain announced as candidate for VP.

(know I don't really expect that, but you gotta figure that Rove's already explored the option)

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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
43. I think he's a problem Bush finds uncomfortable.
If Bush dropped him from the ticket it would expose him as being the completely indifferent, self-seeking ass he is, so he can't do that.

A heart attack which could be blamed on Democrats would be the best of all possible remedies.


"Swiiiiing looooow, sweeeeet chaaaariot...."
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-03-04 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
9. Talk about how BushCo completely whiffed on 9/11
Edited on Sun Oct-03-04 10:13 PM by BeyondGeography
because they were already obsessed with Iraq, missile defense and messing with China. Talk about how the first anti-terrorism meeting wasn't held until September 4.

And then talk about how, in the tradition of secrecy that Edwards is so good at criticizing, BushCo fought the establishment of a 9/11 Commission and were often uncooperative witnesses.

Not to mention that Cheney is BushCo's exaggerator-in-chief on bogus WMD intelligence, Iraq-Al Qaeda ties and continuously insinuating that Iraq and Sadaam had something to with 9/11.

Unlike four years ago, we have a lot more ammo on the Dickster this time. Pull no punches, Sen. Edwards.
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billybob537 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-03-04 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
11. I want him to ask that dipshit
why he continues to lie about the nonexistant Saddam 9/11 connection?
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RaRa Donating Member (705 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-03-04 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
12. Not overly confident about this one
I heard that in some earlier debate (probably when Edwards ran for senator) that he did not do well; he wasn't prepared and didn't have his facts straight. Cheney may be an evil sack of shit, but he's been around forever and knows his facts (even the ones he makes up). I sure hope the Kerry team is drilling him well. That said, since it's so much about style, the outcome could also be quite hilarious in our favor. Maybe he can get the big Dick to scowl even more.
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shockingelk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-03-04 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Could Cheney throw a hail mary?
Like implying OBL is captured, "We have, in fact, captured, uh, members of al Qaeda's, uh, upper management as it were. Security restrictions ..."

Or, "We found that Hussein, in fact was, uh, we were surprised that he was even closer to obtaining a nuclear weapon than we thought. Had we waited ..."
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-03-04 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
25. Crash-cart lies with flourish
and continues to lie even after he's busted. Calling him on it and being right would be a win. I hope Edward has all his facts lined up.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #12
28. Let's have some more details on the earlier debate.
Sounds interesting. A link would be good.
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ogradda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-03-04 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
13. what time will the vp debate be?
i gotta set my vcr - i have school that nite :(
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #13
42. don't worry
there will be replays.
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KlatooBNikto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-03-04 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
14. Cheney's real problem is going to be himself. He does not project
the image of a man who much cares about others and does not care how he gains power. He shares these characteristics with his evil twin Don Rumsfeld. The image that has stayed with me in the past two years is that of these two men gloating when the gruesome display of the corpses of Saddam's sons were put up on TV. The glee in both men's faces was unmistakable and Cheney actually disparaged the dead by calling them Ooty and Kooty.

In stark contrast stands John Edwards whose affection for his children and his family is so apparent in the pictures one sees of them together.The feeling with which he talks about some of his clients who have needed his help is sometimes overwhelming.

I think John's true self will triumph over Cheney's true self.Count on that.
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Jane Austin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-03-04 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
16. I hope Cheney rfemembers to rag on Edwards for being a trial lawyer.
And then Edwards can remind Cheney that when he was Chairman of Halliburton, they filed 30 tort actions against other companies.

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Thurston Howell IV Donating Member (436 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-03-04 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
17. Looking forward to this one
The contrasts are great. Cheney is vulnerable on so many issues, and Edwards made his millions by convincing juries of corporate corruption -- something Cheney specializes in.

If Edwards does his thing, Cheney should go down. However, I doubt that Cheney will lose on the non-verbals -- other than his normal sourpuss look.

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GoddessOfGuinness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-03-04 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
19. Setting charm aside for a moment...
because Edwards wins the personality contest without a word being spoken...

Cheney's effectively been the president for the last 4 years, and does have a command of the issues, and is a masterful liar.
I hope Edwards has studied well, and exposes every one of Cheney's lies.

I'm looking forward to the debate. I believe Edwards has the right stuff to take Cheney on; but I think it will be a challenge for him.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-03-04 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
20. John Edwards will goad Crashcart into....
...snarling profanity within the first round.
Referees will stop the debate and declare a TKO!


(My prediction)
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gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-03-04 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
21. Cheney still needs to be nailed for what he said in his last debate.
Lieberman joked that Cheney had done pretty well, and Cheney shot back that the government had absolutely nothing to do with it. Ha ha, laughed Lieberman at Cheney's "funny."

Trouble is, it was a bald-faced lie.

I hope Edwards asks Cheney about it. Edwards should ask Cheney if his government contacts meant nothing to Cheney's making a mint at Halliburton. What's Cheney going to say?
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jacksonian Donating Member (699 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-03-04 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
22. yes, I worry
Cheney actually has a brain, and unlike Shrub, has been engaged in Washington policy debates most of his life. Don't sell him short, this is one slick bastard.

Edwards needs to have done his homework. The recent NYTimes account of Cheney manipulating Iraq data will help put Dick on the defensive, but things will be fought on foreign policy, not John's home turf.

Still the race is Kerry vs. Bush and I don't think Tues will do anything but give the repugs some fresh talking points.
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crossroads Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-03-04 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
23.  Golden Boy vs Dr. Death!
Good vs evil!
:kick:
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deadparrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-03-04 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
24. I'm still worried that the mediawhores will spin it
to look like Dick is the older, more "experienced" one.

I don't know, I worry about everything nowadays. These people are so damn corrupt.
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Algomas Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-03-04 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
26. Luke Skywalker vs. Darth Vader...
I think Edwards should throw Cheney off balance by whispering: "How's your heart tonight Dick?" at the opening handshake. Or maybe this: "In case I don't get a chance later Dick, let me tell you right now to go Cheney yourself".

Let the games begin...
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kskiska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
29. Cheney claims to be super-qualified to take over the presidency
if necessary (even though he's de facto president already), but for how long? The guy's heart muscle is mostly dead and the shelf life of his bypass has expired.
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booksenkatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
30. We owe Spiro Agnew an apology
because we've allowed Crashcart to remain unscathed.

I've been waiting for this debate for months, I'm so looking forward to it! I used to think Edwards was just a pretty face until I heard one of his speeches and was knocked out. He has a talent for taking complex issues and giving the Cliff Notes version... beautiful.

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expatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
31. Snarls v. Smiley
This is going to be awesome.
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MrTriumph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
32. Attack, attack, attack!
Expect Cheney to go on the attack about the "global test", to say Kerry will raise taxes, etc. And expect him to hit hard about Edwards being a trial lawyer. He may even ask JE what his cut was of any number of settlements JE won. JE better be ready to respond.

And given the bone-headed attack-free Dem. convention and the lackluster campaign the Dems. have run against the Worst President Ever and the Worst Congress Ever, I am not confident his staff will have him prepared. Advice to JE: Forget party elite's suggestions. You need to attack, attack, attack!

FWIW, win or lose, does anyone else have the desire for a party shake up after the election?
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
34. This debate will make/break both men's careers
Talk about a deathmatch. Edwards is gonna show why he is
presidential, and cheney is going to defend the slovenly criminality
of his president. I'm sure that nasty attack-slime has worked over
the last video with a fine tooth comb thinking Edwards will come out
with the presumption of victory.

Edwards is gonna *GLOW* at the podium, he's gonna be so bright.
THey're gonna wonder whether god himself annointed him for the
debate.

May the crowd cast garlands at the feet of the great warrior Edwards.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. There will be no podium in this debate cuz cheney can't stand up
for 90 minutes. Bad heart 'ya know!

They will be sitting at a table like he did in the Lieberman debate in 2000.
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
35. Is WaPo lowering expectations for Dick? nt
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
36. Don't put anything past these guys. Edwards is well liked to today, but
Edited on Mon Oct-04-04 01:33 PM by w4rma
with media spin they will try to grab on to *something* and try to demonize Sen. Edwards. Cheney is a vicious evil man and unlike Shrub, he has a well-oiled and devious brain.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
37. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ReadTomPaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. What does being a catholic have to do with not supporting Kerry?
Edited on Mon Oct-04-04 04:26 PM by ReadTomPaine
Those are dangerous waters, 'My Friend' - what you are describing is a right wing talking point. Please explain.

RTP.
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
46. Lots of idealism on this thread. Do you forget who Cheney IS???
This is one of the sleaziest, most manipulative, deceptive and dangerous men on the planet. He has won more elections than Edwards, and was running with the big dogs when Edwards was a choir boy.

Cheney has no morals and no conscience, so he will lie and spin with the secure knowledge that he doesn't have to tell the truth, so long as he whips Edwards every way to Sunday, and makes Edwards look whipped.

I'm pretty worried about this debate. If Edwards comes in second, I'll consider it a victory. If Cheney has his way, Edwards won't even make a showing.

I hope Edwards can at least make it obvious that Cheney plays by his own rules, and doesn't give a flip what decent people think...at least let Cheney show what a dangerous person he can be.

Even a successful trial lawyer can't take on one of the most powerful men in the world. Kissinger MIGHT be able to take on Cheney if they were on opposite sides, but it would still be a dog fight.
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