In Rural USA, Republicans Win with Guns, Abortion

[leftchick]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=578&e=10&u=/nm/20041004/pl_nm/campaign_rural_dc

<snip>
CHIPPEWA FALLS, Wis. (Reuters) - Farmer Kathleen Vinehout knows why guns and abortion, favored Republican Party themes, trump the economy or health care at election time in a swathe of states stretching from Texas to the Canadian border.


Rural Americans "vote their values more than their self-interests," says Vinehout, a member of the National Farmers Union from western Wisconsin.

Republican ideas about gun ownership resonate in a region where self-reliance is a way of life and social issues dominate. Highways are flanked by anti-abortion billboards.

<snip>
Author Thomas Frank, who this summer published "What's the Matter with Kansas?" a book that deals with the increasing social conservatism in the Midwest, said rural states "vote against their own economic interests."

[PROGRESSIVE1]

1. This is why I have never been sympathetic to Right Wing Poor Voters.

It's not my problem if you choose live with crap.

:eyes:

[slojim240]

34. RW-poor? Hey they believe they are in the upper 2%

Guns and anti-abortion, anybody get the irony here?

[The_Casual_Observer]

2. vote against their own economic interests

This is because they had it so good during Clinton and they haven't yet figured out that they are being fucked by the chimp. They are headed to the slaughter house and they don't even know it. The rw wants to make them feel that they have the luxury to vote on bogus issues instead of what is day to day important.

[Lautremont]

3. Reading that headline

makes me think they've started aborting potential Democrats and shooting any who've already been born.

[phantom power]

4. I'd be more tolerant, except

they're also voting against *my* economic interests. To say nothing of the environment, and national security.

[BJ]

5. I can't begin to tell you how many times...

...one of these guys have said, "With my gun I can hunt for food for my family."

They'd starve within a week.

[el_gato]

6. Maybe he's a cannible

Most republicans are ....

[theHandpuppet]

8. Not only that...

... it's also a bogus issue. No one is trying to pry the guns from the hands of hunters. Requiring background checks and taking assault weapons off the streets should be the concern of ALL responsible citizens, including the nation's gun owners. For example, I expect people who drive cars to pass tests and get a license, and I don't expect that citizens should be allowed to drive loaded tanks down the streets. Why wouldn't I expect at least as much commen sense rules for people who own firearms?

[Romulus]

14. stumbling block being

how to define "assault weapons" in a way that makes any sense.

Banning firearms because they have "pistol grips," while ignoring firearms that don't, like these voters' "hunting shotguns" - even though both firearms types do the same thing, the same way, with the same ammo - makes no sense and gives the RW ready made talking points re:"your gun is NEXT." :eyes:

And the licensing drivers thing is only valid if you're going to be out in public. Background checks can (and should) be done without gun owner licensing. Anyway, that's another topic.

Just trying to shed some light on the issue.

[Fovea]

20. I figure if it is full auto, or has a clip bigger than 5 shots

it ain't a deer rifle.
No north american predator, save the Orca, is so fearsome large you have to shoot it with a .50 Cal rifle, either.

[slackmaster]

26. Full auto has been strictly regulated since 1934

The federal AW ban concerned only semiautomatic firearms with certain ergonomic features.

No north american predator, save the Orca, is so fearsome large you have to shoot it with a .50 Cal rifle, either.

FWIW the Makah tribe of Northwestern Washington state has used .50 BMG rifles on gray whales. And here in California our Penal Code prohibits firing a gun from a moving vehicle, unless you are hunting whales.

[Scout]

13. except once the environment is ruined

with pollution, and all the habitat is destroyed, then there will be no animals to hunt either!

Not to mention that yes, a lot of them would starve anyway even if game were plentiful.

[progressivebydesign]

7. Have these people REALLY thought about how abortion affects them?

I mean.. REALLY thought about it? How does it fucking affect them? If they are pro-life, then how do they explain their almost guaranteed support of this war and the death penalty? How do they explain their support of a ideaology that results in the pain, hunger, and even death of BORN humans?

I still think it truly, deeply, gets down to greed. Tax cuts. The republicans I've known, regardless of how much money they had, ALL believe that the ONE reason (above all, even guns and abortion), is that they do NOT want to pay a CENT to "welfare mothers", and believe they are overtaxed to take care of other "lazy" people.

The abortion, guns, gay marriage thing is a smokescreen. While those are important.. the #1 issue, is 'their taxes paying for the lazy people who won't work'. THAT'S what you hear in the living rooms, the barber shops, the diners... it's the REAL issue.

[Child_Of_Isis]

11. Bingo! n/t

[lostnfound]

12. I disagree. I know plenty of women who have moved rightward..

because of abortion. Do not underestimate how much sentimentality and human emotions towards infants have been exploited on this issue.

They may be troubled by war, but the media gives them a long song and dance about 50 ways to justify it. Justifications for war are everpresent in the media -- you can't avoid them. Plus, the Dems are not clear in their position on it -- historically, the war machine has been bi-partisan.

Contrast the massive airtime devoted to defending the war -- 'why Saddam was a bad man' (etc.) -- to the fact that zero airtime devoted to defense of the pro-choice position. RW-ers play heavily on the emotions (torture chambers, fear) when they put out propaganda to support the war; likewise their TV propaganda for the prolife position (adorable babies etc) has heavy emotional content.

When LW candidates put out commerciasl supporting the pro-choice position, their message (don't interfere with a woman's right to choose) may be seen as glib and shallow by the mainstream -- it does not have broad emotional impact -- in comparison with the adorable babies images. And the LW doesn't put out emotional propaganda against war in general -- because the war machine is bi-partisan.

[mitchtv]

30. not one cent for lazy welfare mothers

but farm subsidies are just dandy

[ixion]

9. rural usa says: send lawyers, guns and money

sorry, just had to sneak that Zevon title in there somewhere. ;-)

[DinahMoeHum]

10. Attitude: if these folks STILL want Bush/Cheney. . .

then I say F**k 'em. Let them dumb-shit hillbillies go get shot and maimed for Chimpy's wars. Problem is - the rest of will be paying for their ignorance.


:evilfrown:

[sybylla]

16. That is the problem, we have to live with their decisions

The answer isn't to "F**k 'em" but to do a better job rebutting the reichwing. Rural America is so busy working its ass off these people don't have time to study the issues. If they did, they'd realize they are working their asses off thanks to pukes. Regardless, they don't have time to make an informed decision. So the reichwing soundbites work. We have to stop letting the reichwing control the discussion.

Some key points were already mentioned: a better definition of assault weapons, safer and better background checks, protection of the environment, preservation of public lands (where large numbers of hunters hunt) and pointing out that regulation doesn't lead to confiscation and never has historically in any other venue.

For some reason Dems have given up on these issues. It's as if they decided one-issue voters aren't worth the effort. I really don't think it would take much by way of appeal or education to turn these voters Democratic and perhaps even into multiple issue voters.

[smirkymonkey]

15. Anyone else see the irony of the pro-gun, anti-abortion position?

Not to mention voting for the party that would have them kept in abject economic misery for the remainder of their pathetic lives.

[FatSlob]

25. I see no irony.

I'm very pro gun. I use mine to defend life, mine, my wife's, my daughters. Anti-gun is anti-freedom in my book. As far as abortion goes, it is morally wrong, but I don't see anywhere in the constitution that says it can be regulated.

[leftchick]

29. yup!

I am beginning to think the repuke party shoud be renamed the Ironic party.

[w4rma]

17. As I've said before, guns are very important in rural areas.

You're far away from the police and alone in a house with a big yard. If someone arbitrarily decides to pick you to commit a crime against and you have no gun, you are totally at their mercy until someone gets worried and checks up on you if they cut the phone line or until the police arrive.

Also, government corruption does exist and taken far enough the government (with/or a big well-funded corporation) could decide to take violent action against you even though you are a law abiding citizen.

[AndyTiedye]

18. We Caved in on Guns Already, We're Laying Low on Abortion

If we lose this election, (whats left of) the Dems will cave in on
abortion and birth control, and both will be banned within two years.

This is another reason why we must not lose.

[sandnsea]

19. Nah, they vote against commie pinko libruls

Guns and abortion are their excuse for voting against Dems, that's all.

[Mr E McSquare]

21. Farmers!!?

Keep in mind that alot of these "rural" people are farmers or used to be.
They've seen their way of life and livelihood taken away from them over the years and its alot easier to blame pinko commie enviro-terrorists then the real culprits, big agri-business.

Its like when some big logging outfit buys new equipment that does the job it used to take a team of ten men to do with only 1. Of course management is going to blame the loggers lay-offs on enviormentalist's. They say if it wasnt for all the greeners they'd still have a job when the reality of it is if it wasnt for the GREED of big biz and stockholders there would be plenty of jobs for rural america.

Here in Vermont which is almost all rural (thank goodness) we have dairy farmers who's land has been in the family since BEFORE america was even an idea. Now comes their turn to farm the family land (usually dairy farming - thats milk for you city slickers) and they cant earn a living.The kids dont want to take over pops failed business and move away to some dirty city somewhere and what is farmer John (those red-necks as you call them) to do?? Sell the farm and retire. The land usually goes to some out of state developer, usually for some Mcmiddleclass housing developement and then the greeners are mad at the farmer for fucking up his veiw of "rural Vermont". The fact of the matter is (at least here in Vermont) that unless your willing to pay five bucks for a gallon of milk then shut the fuck up about the condos going up down the road from you country second home.

The death tax....The repukes used the farmers once again to add more voices calling for repealing the death tax. The tax is there to stop families like Bush but the repukes have convinced farmers that the death tax is there to rob them of passing there farms down to there sons (or here in VT often there daughters). Pretty effective argument that Dems have no way of conteracting.

The rural red-necks are the way they are because the dems have all but ignored there plite. The republicans here have done a great job at getting the farmers vote by actually DOING SOMETHING help these people keep the farms. Namely making sure they get a fair price for the milk they produce. How they're doing that I dont know but I dont think farmer John gives a shit, he just wants to get paid.
The point I'm trying to make is that you can make fun of rural america all you want. As far as I'm concerned rural america and its farmers is what made america great. Until the Dems actually DO SOMETHING to help out "rural america" they'll never get the bubba vote.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

23. Democrats helped those farmers with the New England Dairy Compact

And I am sure it had bi-partisan support. I don't know WTF else you're talking about. New England will be 6 states of solid blue this time around.

[Mr E McSquare]

27. dairy compact?

was and is a piece of crap.
Bi-partisan Compact all you want, just show me the money.
As much as I hate our governor the farmers around here are getting more money per gallon thanks to some of the things Jim Douglas has done. He's a fucking Shrub loving dickhead but if I was a dairy farmer I'd vote for him. After looking around at my neighbors who've been able to hold on to the family farm for another year perhaps I'll end up voting for a republican dick head anyway.
What I'm talking about is how people see rural america as a bunch of dumb ass's who vote republican because they're stupid. They vote repukes because at least they're DOING SOMETHING about farmers concerns. When you say rural america your really saying farmers and the dems have all but ignored them. Its been easy for the repugs to court them. all they had to do is SHOW THEM THE MONEY and they get their vote.

Yes new england will be six states of solid blue thank goodness. unlike the rest of the country vermonters are able to put party politics aside and do whats right for the country. Unfortunately Vermont is heading back to the right thanks to Dems who are more worried about whos fucking who then putting food on the table.

Judging by your harsh response your probably one of those that refuses to think for himself and will follow the Dems no matter what they do, just like those idiot rural republicans.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

28. You are misinformed. The NEDC was so good

that New York State saw the results and also signed on to it.
Personally, I respond well to any progressive legislation that helps those who need it. And I'll believe your very spurious claim that Vermont is heading back to the right the day Bernie Sanders in turned out.

[Mr E McSquare]

31. nov 2

I hope your correct
But your there and I'm here and the dems are getting clobbered.
they've got absolutely nothing.
why will Jim the weiner win? SHOW ME THE MONEY.
plain and simple.
The state dems dont have a clue. Believe me I wish they did but they are flailing.

I may be misinformed about the dairy compact but then again your not here and the farmers are making more money now then any bernie sanders dairy compact promised them. Instead of ten cents a gallon were talking a dollar or more increase. I dont know how that happened but all the farmers around here are giving Jim Douglas the credit. Does he deserve it? maybe I dont know but one things for sure, the dems have fallen flat on thier faces and the farmers have abandoned them. The last thing they're thinking about is civil unions.

I love Bernie. I went to a forum he held just last month. Farmers dont give a flying fuck about workers rights for chinese babies or global warming or lots of the issues that bernie talks about. they're trying to hold on to the farm. Until the dems and progs can address that issue they'll slowly but surely loose control of this state. mark my word. All the gold bricking, dope smoking, ski bunnies in the world wont change that.
Once again ITS ABOUT THE MONEY.

[Name removed]

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[Magleetis]

24. Religion is another factor in this equation.

I live in a rural Louisiana town and there are signs around town that ask voters if their candidates are in line with Gods views on the issues. A lot of folks are voting for Bush just because he is a born again.

[MisterP]

32. "a region where self-reliance is a way of life"?

every time grain or stock prices take a tiny dip, it gets amplified to the point where thousands pack into the slums of "those soft city-slickers'" cities as farm after farm collapses--unless ConAgra's gotten there first!

[shaolinmonkey]

33. I've got a relative who always votes Repub.

He works for the county and loves to hunt. So, his salary comes from taxes and his party wants to pollute his hunting grounds, but he votes Repub because he thinks we want his .22. The guy's a complete moran, as are many rual Wisconsinites (I can speak from experience).