Mexico refuses to treat american citizen without medical insurance

[951]

"Ricardo plummeted 40-feet to the ground. He was rushed to a Mexican hospital with severe head injuries. The physicians would not treat him, because he didn’t have health insurance..."

http://www.kake.com/news/headlines/1070556.html

[FlemingsGhost]

1. Surely the Hippocratic Oath has been translated to Spanish.

What are these doctors thinking?

[Kimber Scott]

2. They always USED to treat Americans and mailed the bill. Maybe,

too many Americans have overloaded their medical system by using its services then not paying the bill. You know, other countries aren't real places and there's no need to follow their laws, or cultural norms and you can bomb them, too. It's the American way.

[ixion]

3. welcome to the new Imperial 'Murikkka

we no longer have friends and allies, only people we can bribe.

[OutInTheBack40]

28. You blame America for this injured person not getting treatment?

Would Mexico be blamed if it was reversed?

[ixion]

31. My point is that we have soured relations with our allies and neighbors

because of the imperial attitude.

[OutInTheBack40]

32. I have soured relations with suicidal people

But I would always lend them medical care to save them if I could. Human kindness should always outweigh any political pettiness.

[ixion]

46. I agree

100%

[phantom power]

4. we treat foreigners w/out insurance

In fact, here in AZ, the number of uninsured aliens obtaining medical care from emergency rooms is causing ERs to shut down.

[Kimber Scott]

10. I'm in AZ and I was being facetious. nt

[Lydia Leftcoast]

33. Um, I used to interpret occasionally in the emergency room that was

right across from the college where I taught in a small town in Oregon.

If foreign-born, non-citizen patients had the financial wherewithal, they WERE billed. I remember once a Korean man, so recently arrived that he didn't speak more than a few words of English, brought his grandfather in to have an infected sore treated. (The old man had been educated under the Japanese occupation, so his Japanese was quite good, which was why I was called in to interpret. Nobody in the hospital spoke Korean.)

Anyway, these people were charged full fare for having the sore looked at, cleaned, and dressed--about $125 at the time. They paid in cash.

I suspect that an indigent immigrant gets the same treatment as an indigent citizen--free care, an attempt to bill, and harrassment of those who can't pay. Since the immigrant can easily go back to the Old Country, some of these bills may be uncollectable.

[phantom power]

61. It could work like that down here too, I don't know.

Regardless, the ERs down here are losing money, and some of them are losing enough money that they have to close.

I personally don't have anything against providing uninsured people with care. But it's a problem that needs to be dealt with. If an ER is forced to close, then everybody loses, both insured and uninsured.

This problem could be seen as one argument for socialized health care.

[Leilani]

5. What else is new?

Americans do not have the same rights in Mexico, that Mexicans have in the U.S.

And that is true for most countries.

Although many people do not believe it, we are more generous & more liberal in our policies to foreigners, than they are to us.

[Misunderestimator]

13. Which is why, they are better than we...

I was in Ireland for about six weeks, and came down with bronchitis. Without having to offer insurance, I was given treatment and a prescription for less than $15... which was good, since at the time, I had no insurance.

[chimpy the poopthrower]

20. I don't understand.

Your comment doesn't mesh with the one you are replying to. By "we," you mean the U.S.? By "they" you mean other countries? Or am I misunderstanding?

[Misunderestimator]

24. Yes, by "we" I mean us, and by "they" I mean other countries.

I mean that other countries' universal health care takes care of everyone... we refuse people because they don't have insurance. What's unclear?

[chimpy the poopthrower]

26. Well, it doesn't make sense as a response to this story...

...or as a direct reply to Leilani's post, which stated

Americans do not have the same rights in Mexico, that Mexicans have in the U.S.

And that is true for most countries.

Although many people do not believe it, we are more generous & more liberal in our policies to foreigners, than they are to us.

I mean it was a Mexican hospital that refused to treat an uninsured American citizen, not the other way around.

[Misunderestimator]

27. And I'm saying that other countries are much more liberal than we are

in their health-care policies. "That is true for most countries" is what I am responding to... it is not true. Many countries are MUCH more liberal in their policies than we are.

[Sterling]

53. I agree that socialized RX is better than what we got.

I don't think that is really the issue here though.

[wickerwoman]

30. Ditto.

I crashed my bicycle in Ireland and hit my head so hard I had a mild concussion. They gave me an x-ray at the hospital, checked me out, took my address and sent me home. I assumed they were going to bill me but they never did.

In Peru, the doctor (a friend of the bed and breakfast's owner who was mortified that I had gotten sick on his watch) checked out my case of severe food poisoning and gave me medicine for free.

In China, I got a check-up (with no appointment and a 5 minute wait) and two months worth of allergy medicine for $16. (The same in the US would be easily $600-700. Oh, and when I called my HMO supplied doc he didn't have any appointments available for 6 weeks.)

In Prague, my roommate was raped. I went with her to the ER where she received exemplary care and treatment despite the language barrier and the ambulance drivers gave us a free lift back to our apartment.

One unfortunate anecdote in Mexico does not even begin to prove such a sweeping and unfair generalization as "we treat foreigners better than they treat us." Such a person has obviously never travelled (except maybe one trip to France where a waiter was rude to them and they decided it was the end of the world.)

Just a little reality check- it's not illegal immigrants that are forcing ERs to shut down. It's the obscene profits demanded by pharmaceutical and bio-tech companies and the refusal of the U.S. government to take responsibility for the health and well-being of its citizens by *wait for it* actually subsidizing health care.

[Leilani]

42. You do not know me, & do not know my traveling past.

Not only have I traveled broadly, but I have lived in places you have never visited.

And, I speak French & never had a problem with rude waiters.

Take your patronization & stick it!

Last time I looked, as miserable as many may think OUR country is, people are still risking life & limb to get here.

Does our medical system have problems? It sure as hell does, & the problems need to be fixed.

But if I get seriously ill, I would rather get my medical care in the U.S.

[wickerwoman]

43. Returning to the point:

"Although many people do not believe it, we are more generous & more liberal in our policies to foreigners, than they are to us"

This is patently absurd. I never claimed to know you or your travel history, nor do I require a recitation. I was simply pointing out that anyone who could make such a statement has either never travelled or has done so in such a close-minded fashion as to miss the real lessons of travel (tolerance, patience, empathy and a sense of connection to all people regardless of arbitrary national labels.) Making a generalization like this tells me that although your body has been in other countries you have not really travelled broadly.

And I think you'll find that the U.S. is not the only country where people are risking life and limb to get, although what that has to do with anything escapes me entirely.

[Leilani]

44. Your post responded to mine,

therefore I took your criticisms as addressed to me, which they were.

And as far as travel itineraries, you are the one who posted yours; you know nothing about mine.

Foreigners can purchase property in the U.S., however Americans cannot do the same abroad in many cases.

Any child born on American soil is immediately recognized as a citizen. Does the same right occur for babies born in other countries?

Until 9/11, we had the most liberal policy of foreigners studying at our colleges; many other countries severely restrict foreign students.

Our courts have decided that all children in our country are entitled to free public school access. Is that reciprocated in other countries?

And I repeat, you know nothing about me, my life, or my experiences, so I resent the fact that you choose to make rude assumptions about me.

If you were so traveled, wordly, & sophisticated, as you think you are, you would realize it unwise to jump to knee-jerk conclusions about people, without getting to know them.

I will not be posting to you anymore; it seems you know all there is to know about everything, therefore discussion is useless.

[SidDithers]

57. Your generalizations make your statements meaningless...

>Foreigners can purchase property in the U.S., however Americans cannot do the same abroad in many cases.

And in many cases Americans can purchase property abroad.

>Any child born on American soil is immediately recognized as a citizen. Does the same right occur for babies born in other countries?

Yes it does, for many, many countries around the world.

>Until 9/11, we had the most liberal policy of foreigners studying at our colleges; many other countries severely restrict foreign students.

MOST liberal policy? Prove it. Some countries restrict foreign students, many don't.

> Our courts have decided that all children in our country are entitled to free public school access. Is that reciprocated in other countries?

Yes it is, in many countries.

The US is not unique in the world in terms of rights and priveleges.

Sid

[Maestro]

47. Quite true

Blowing one incident out of proportion is just as bad as rethugs claiming immigrants to US steal jobs.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

34. As far as medical care is concerned, it varies

I was treated for free in a Dutch emergency room after I fell down the stairs in our hotel, and I know people who have been treated for free in other European countries.

However, if you don't have national or private health insurance in Japan, you pay the full rate.

Yet a former colleague of mine was treated for free after she was in a car accident in Costa Rica.

[bermudat]

6. Illegal Mexican immigrants show up all the time in E.R.'s in the USA.

If it is an emergency, they are treated. This is why so many hospitals are closing in Texas and California because these charges are never reimbursed or repaid. I think all of Central and South America knows that if they can make it to an American Emergency Room, they will receive medical treatment. Every pregnant illegal immigrant knows that if she can arrive in labor at an American hospital, even if penniless, she will be delivered. Don't blame the women, tho. Their children become automatic American citizens, with all the rights and privileges thereof.

[dolo amber]

7. We've taught them so well

:eyes:

[Sterling]

52. Maybe we can teach them to stay home?

Maybe they will learn not to illegally cross our borders and overburden our system? Probably not. It's funny they come here in masses and soak up social services but get all bent up over one American with no coverage. Pretty damn shrill.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

54. Here's a hypothetical situation for you....

Let's assume that you're living in a very poor country and have a family to support...wife, children, and maybe one or more parents. Your living conditions are pretty difficult, and you need to make more money than that offered by your country's economy.

Just a few miles away across the border is a very prosperous country with a ton of jobs requiring hard labor that their citizens no longer want to do.

You know that if you can just get across the border, chances are good that you'll be able to find a seasonal job that will allow you to at least support your family.

If you were that man, what would you decide to do?

"Overburden our system"?? The system was coping, at the very least, until the NeoCons got their hands on it.

[dumpster_baby]

8. medical insurance VERY cheap in Mexico (MX has national health insurance)

It used to be about $20-50/month for naional medical insurance. Once again, America, supposedly the greatest country (in the minds of Americans, anyway), comes up short, compared to many other countries, even compared to quasi-3rd world countries like Mexico.

[FlemingsGhost]

9. I see Mexico coming up way short.

The man is dead. In the U.S. his life would have been saved.

[doreme]

11. Bear in mind

that this was a couple of Drs. in one hospital in the whole country of Mexico.

[FlemingsGhost]

12. Duly noted. And very good point.

Welcome to DU, doreme.

[gadem04]

14. Agreed, agreed

I can't help but cry sometimes when I read things like this.

[Xipe Totec]

15. Very strange story

Few details on the victim, the location of the accident, or the hospital. The KAKE video shows a picture of an emergency sign and hospital, but the signs are in English. Not likely to be pictures of the actual hospital in Mexico.

Did a web search to see if there were other stories on this subject but found none.

Are there other sources to this story?

On edit: The reporter goes on to say that Ricardo was transferred to another hospital where he spent a week before he passed away. So was he refused medical treatment or not?

[radwriter0555]

49. My thinking exactly. The story sounds bogus. MX has excellent HC

and medical services.

It SOUNDS like they're trying to blame MX for the guy engaging in an extremely risky 'sport', and causing his own death.

[amazona]

59. agree w./ you 2 -- story doesn't pass the smell test

I don't believe that "Mexico" refused to treat anyone. Maybe there was a dispute with one physician or maybe we are getting a tall tale. My experience of Mexican health care is that there are several alternatives -- you can get trip insurance, some will take your American health insurance, some will take credit cards, and there is always cash. Whereas in the U.S. care is so expensive that people could never have the amount of cash to pay, in Mexico health care costs are reasonable and paying cash is actually a reasonable option. I mean, people, there is a damn good reason so many retirees, especially young retirees who can't get Medicare, dream of moving to Mexico.

[flordehinojos]

16. We are making such a big deal about illegal immigrants,

should they have work permits? should they have driver's licenses?
should they be treated in our emergency rooms? Sadly for Ricardo who plummeted 40-feet to the ground, Mexico is giving us a dose of our medicine, it seems! ... you know, sort of what goes around, comes around.

[951]

17. What medicine?

We treat their citizens without any problems infact we don't check for legal status when we treat them and even if we know their status it doesn't matter we still treat them.

[flordehinojos]

18. I think that is how it used to be. I think we are making it very hard

for illegal immigrants these days.They are hunted at the borders like dogs. I was listening to Amy Goodman's Democracy Now! the other from Arizona, or New Mexico, I can't remember which ... her guests were a woman from some anti-illegal immigrant group. They want librarians to turn in to the government the names and addressess of each library card holder so that the government can go after the illegal immigrants on the list and return them to their countries of origin. The attorney representing the immigrants was saying how like gestapo the whole thing was, also, in light of the fact that librarians who refused to turn in the names of their patrons would be arrested and put in jail. There is a very strong, anti-immigrant wave in this country these days which I think got started with Newt Gingrich and his Contract on America. Used to, we treated immigrants in hospitals emergency rooms and in our mental health centers where nothing was made out of the fact that we were providing these compassionate human services to human beings. These days, compassion has been sent on a long vacation, a lot is being made out of the fact that we are providing human services to those whom many consider less than human. Mexico is giving us back some of the same medicine, i think!

[JPace]

19. Like your picture but.....

shouldn't there be some horns to go along
the red hair?

[951]

21. I forgot to mention...

I how much suck at photoshop :P

[msmcghee]

22. How the world has changed.

This thread reminded me of a day back in the early sixties, well before Viet Nam. A day that I'll never forget. I was in my late teens and living in Southern Cal. I spent a lot of time then surfing in Baja. One day I was down there at a place called K39 - surfing by myself, which was kind of stupid. The shore there is very rocky with lots of spiked Sea Urchins for your feet and a healthy population of sharks for your adrenalin.

I wiped out near the end of a fairly nice wave and had the unusual misfortune of having my buoyant surfboard slice up from below the water and hit my chin with the edge. There's a sharp bone in there and it cut me open and left a flap - that started to pour blood into the water. I managed to get to shore through the Sea Urchins and carry my board up the cliff with one hand - holding my chin together with the other. I then drove the 20 miles or so to the nearest town and found the Cruz Roja (Red Cross).

Inside was a long cool hallway. As my eyes adjusted to the dark a nurse appeared, took a look at the blood covering my chin, chest and thighs by then - and led me to the emergency room. She laid me down on a very old, well used settee that was covered in cracked leather. Soon another nurse appeared and together they cleaned out my wound, threaded up some cat gut and stitched me back together. In 20 minutes or so they were done and told me I could go.

I thanked them and asked where I should go to pay. Pay? they said. They looked at each other and laughed. "In Mexico you don't pay for this.", they instructed me. I insisted they take $10 to replace the supplies (that was like $30 today), thanked them profusely and left.

That was the day some very kind ladies in a third world nation taught this gringo a very important lesson about life and health care. That was also the day I became solidly liberal.

Someday, we will take this country back from the RW zealots and become citizens of the world again. I am only sorry we will make so many enemies of the decent people in other nations before that day comes.

[smirkymonkey]

23. Wow, I didn't realize NAFTA allowed us to export our greed

and heartlessness to other countries too!

[Radius]

25. No Hospital in the US

Can refuse life saving treatment. Period.

In many cases hospitals perform treatments for no cost. There was a case at Duke hospital where a Mexican citizen died due to a mismatched organ. Her death was terrible, but many people are helped by the system at Duke. This is one of thousands of pro-bono procedures done by our medical system.

I have a distant family member who was born with a hole in her heart. The procedure cost over 500K to correct, they were covered under Medicaid.

[2Design]

29. there was an article in aarp in the last six months

where this women's husband died because he couldn't get the treatment he needed. They thought they had insurance but it was a scam - they were left without - he had something like cancer and that was the end of it.

[Radius]

35. I know

someone on Medicaid being treated in good hospitals with terminal cancer.

If a hospital refuses service they are criminally and civilly liable for the outcome.

[leesa]

51. Only emergency services. We turn people away all the time for

no coverage.

[mbperrin]

36. Well, gee, "can't" is probably a little strong...perhaps

"shouldn't" would be better. Here's some "dumping" cases:

http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9811/30/emergency.care/
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S. government this week will begin a crackdown in one of the most controversial issues in health care: denial or delay of hospital treatment without prior approval of patients' insurors.

In thousands of cases, patients have complained that emergency treatment was withheld or delayed while hospital representatives consulted with health plans to determine whether the patients' insurors would pay, federal officials reported. <more>



http://medi-smart.com/cobra.htm

New EMTALA regulations finalized on September 2, 2003

<more>

http://www.commondreams.org/news2001/0712-09.htm

Hospitals in Nearly Every State Violate Federal Patient Dumping Law, Study Shows
527 Hospitals Violated Law Regarding Screening, Treating ER Patients

WASHINGTON - July 12 - Hospitals in nearly every state in recent years have violated a federal law prohibiting them from dumping patients, leading to people with medical emergencies being improperly screened or refused treatment altogether, a new Public Citizen report has found.

In its sixth in a series of reports on patient dumping, Public Citizen found that 527 hospitals violated the 1986 Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA). That law contains rules that virtually all hospitals in the United States must follow regarding the provision of emergency medical services. When a hospital emergency department denies medical screening or stabilizing treatment, or if it inappropriately transfers an individual whose condition is not stable, the hospital is "dumping" the patient. Taking data from all six reports into account, more than one in five hospitals throughout the country have violated the law since it was passed. The report concludes that most hospital staff are familiar with the law but break it anyway. <more>



So starting in 1986 and continuing until at least September 2, 2003, there are still problems in getting medical care provided without prior approval from an HMO. It would be more accurate to say that this is the law, but that it is frequently broken.

[venus]

37. Illegal immigrants from Mexico

get free medical treatment in the U.S. We break our backs and state resources doing it. I'm appalled if this story is true.

[judaspriestess]

40. If this is actually true

Wow, that really is sad if this is true and this coming from a Hispanic, born and raised 5th generation Texan. Mexico wants us to take care of their sick but they can't do that for ours? bizarre

[Maestro]

48. It's just once incident

I work with Mexican, Latin American and South American immigrants daily. These are some of the most hard-working people illegal or not and do much to contribute economically to our economy so if they are hurt on the job in construction, they should be treated illegal or not. It's not like they are sucking on the tete of the US.

While extremely unfortunate if true, I do not think this applicable to all Mexico.

[radwriter0555]

50. How can illegals get free medical care, while 40 million uninsured US

citizens don't?

Splain me that?

[mike_c]

38. LBN rule violation....

The news story title is "Tragic Trip." This post seeks to convey the impression that "Mexico" refused treatment to this traveler-- the news story itself is sketchy and full of personal opinions, with no objective confirmation that I can find, but the post title goes WAY beyond even the sketchy information provided in the news story to create the impression that this was somehow the outcome of "Mexico's" policies. The story itself is likely BS-- this post is worse.

[Hard Attack]

39. Republican Mexicans Maybe?

[Moderator]

41. LBN Rules

Hi, 951!

In the future, please remember that the Rules for Posting in the Latest Breaking News Forum require posters to use the published title of linked-to articles as their subject line.

In this case, the subject line should contain the words "Tragic Trip," which is the published title of the linked-to article.

Thanks!

DU Moderator

[Bridget Burke]

45. Lots of details missing from this story....

Like names & locations. Why doesn't this fine Kansas station buy some tickets to Mexico & have a reporter ask these doctors some questions?

But I noticed an ad on the news page: Blue Cross/Blue Shield. So, surely, we must think that any problems in health care here in the US are the fault of those folks in the emergency rooms. Such a neat moral to a sad story.

[republicansareevil]

55. Does anyone actually know Mexico's policy?

Is it actually Mexican policy to deny treatment to foreigners who can't prove they have insurance coverage? Or was this a decision made by a single doctor or medical facility in violation of Mexico's actual policies? ...assuming that this story even occurred.

[Robert Oak]

56. more evidence that something needs to be done

on making the US so attractive to illegal aliens, while the top 20 families in Mexico plunder the country.

Sorry Liberal cohorts, illegal immigration and giving away our
social security to illegal aliens and all of it is a very real problem.

We can't afford to say "come on over" in this day and age.

[republicansareevil]

58. How did this thread get to be about illegal immigration?

I acknowledge illegal immigration is an important issue, but I don't see how it has anything to do with this thread. I want to know what Mexico's actual policy is toward hospitals treating American visitors who don't have health insurance, assuming they even have a national policy. If Mexican policy actually allows American visitors to be denied emergency medical care, perhaps that is something our government can be discussing with their government.

[Bridget Burke]

60. Because of the immigrant haters.....

They are convinced that all the problems in the US are the fault of those who've come here to work.

This story is lacking some important details. Surely the Kansas TV station could afford tickets to send a crack team down to question the doctors involved. And what does the US consul in that area have to say?

[951]

62. Actually no I don't have any problems with immigrants

my father is an immigrant himself so I understand what a person has to go through to come to this country personally. This isn't about immigrants at all its about another country letting our citizen die in such a inhumane way if you are for Mexico or any country for that matter treating America citizens like this we have nothing to discuss. Personally I believe this story is true but I agree we need to know more about what happened exactly thats why I encourage everyone to call KAKE the station who broke the story at [phone] and demand that they release more info.

Contact list: http://www.kake.com/station/contact

[Bridget Burke]

63. I was commenting on the other anti-immigrant posts on this thread.

Somebody had asked why they'd appeared.

The event reported by KAKE certainly sounds distressing. I wonder why it has not been reported by any other news source.

Please let us know if you find any confirmation at all. I'll save the long distance charges, thanks!