Facts don't get in way at debate

[Judi Lynn]

Posted on Thu, Oct. 07, 2004

Facts don't get in way at debate

By WILLIAM BUNCH

[e-mail]


RONALD REAGAN once said, after a false start, that "facts are stubborn things." And they still were in Tuesday night's vice-presidential debate between Dick Cheney and John Edwards.
(snip)

........Cheney: Best line of the night came with what was supposed to be a zinger regarding Edwards' Senate attendance, saying: "The first time I ever met you was when you walked on the stage tonight."

The problem with that assertion is that Cheney has indeed met Edwards on several occasions - captured on film! One was at a National Prayer Breakfast in February 2001. Another was at the January 2003, swearing-in of Edwards' GOP North Carolina counterpart, Elizabeth Dole.

Cheney: Related to that same point, the vice president said: "Now, in my capacity as vice president, I am the president of Senate, the presiding officer. I'm up in the Senate most Tuesdays when they're in session."

Except that he's not. Records show that Cheney has presided over the Senate just twice in his nearly four years in office. In fact, Edwards also presided over the Senate twice.
(snip/...)

http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/news/local/9855527.htm
(Free registration required)

[leftchick]

1. omg.... talk about a flagrant disregard of the truth.....

aka: a Fucking Whopper of a LIE!!! Holy Crap Judilyn, that is a great find! :wow:

When I heard him say he was there most Tuesdays I thought, oh really bunker-boy? I was curious as to the facts, crap everything he said was a lie! I wonder why this did not make front page news after the debate?!?... :eyes:

[Judi Lynn]

3. I got wind of it tonight when my husband told me he had heard of it

earlier today. I asked him what the source was and he said he has heard Salon had something about it first!

I can't believe this hasn't been out more conspicuously, unless they just found out about it.

I had the feeling Dipstick really thought he had it all over Edwards, too. He had such a scathing, contemptuous tone toward Edwards when he said it. Jerk###!

[leftchick]

6. I can't believe the Kerry campaign doesn't know about this....

and if they do, why have they not brought it up? Very curious...

[nonconformist]

7. That whopper was debunked less than 24 hrs after the debate

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2458216

Why it's not getting any press is anyone's guess...

(I almost said/typed that with a straight face)

[Sideways]

2. Shit I Said This To My Partner As Soon As Chain Gang

spewed the bullshit about "most Tuesdays." I said "Fuck you Dick if you've been in the Senate more than two times in the past four years I'll eat a dog turd for breakfast."

FUCKING LIAR! Edwards knew it of course and he could have called him but he stayed cool and was waiting for the press to investigate instead of looking like a neaner neaner boy. I think Cheney is freaking out that the press is actually doing its job.

These freaking bastards have been lying with IMPUNITY for 4 years...I think the press is weary of being their beard.

[noamnety]

4. I went through factcheck

It looks like Cheney threw out a lie at the rate of about one every 4 minutes if he spoke for 45 minutes, that's without counting misrepresenting Edwards' attendance or Cheney's presiding over the senate. I'm so glad he sent people there - especially with all the press it got as a result of his screwup:

Here's the rundown they give, in a much summarized form:

Edwards mostly right about Halliburton

Edwards said they were trying to cut combat pay, in fact they were trying to let a raise expire.

Cheney misrepresented the IWR votes.

Edwards's job figures were accurate, but included a sin of omission - they did not include the growth in government under Bush.

Cheney was wrong when he said that was old data.

Cheney lied about meeting Edwards (lying about a prayer breakfast!)

90% of casualties - Edwards closer to the truth.

Cheney tried to include noncoalition deaths in his figures of coalition deaths, and even with that, he was wrong about the numbers.

Cheney misrepresented small business claims.

Cheney misled on AIDS spending.

Cheney lied about Kerry changing positions on NCLB.

Edwards claimed they didn't fund NCLB, they did - just not to required standards.

Cheney misrepresented/lied about claims of Iraq/9-11 connections.

Cheney misrepresented Kerry's votes on taxes.

[Judi Lynn]

5. Another source has it, too!

“Now, in my capacity as vice president, I am the president of Senate, the presiding officer. I’m up in the Senate most Tuesdays when they’re in session,” Cheney said last night. Over at Daily Kos, someone actually checked the Congressional Record (fancy that) and found that Cheney presided over the Senate “a grand total of two times the past four years—just as many times as Edwards, who also did so twice.”

And the Los Angeles Times points out that Cheney rarely sits in the chamber, and usually only to break a tie vote or swear in new senators—and he also attends the GOP senators’ weekly luncheons to discuss party strategy. It turns out that when Cheney visits the Senate, he seems to avoid Democrats. “But only Republicans attend ,” the Times says, “and Cheney usually breezes into the building, goes to the meeting, then leaves without hobnobbing with Democrats. In fact, Cheney was teased by Sen. Patrick J. Leahy (D-Vt.) for only associating with Republicans when, in an encounter on the Senate floor, Cheney cursed at Leahy.”


(snip/)

http://www.gisleson.com/blog/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I broke down and got a free day's pass to Salon to look for this:

Getting squirrellier by the hour



As Salon's Eric Boehlert was surprised to learn from watching MSNBC last night, Chris Matthews and his panel of pundits relished Dick Cheney's debate performance, with Matthews saying the vicious veep went "looking for squirrel and he found squirrel." Especially delicious to the MSNBC panel was Cheney's harshing on Edwards about never meeting him before last night. Well, in this case, Cheney may have been looking for squirrel, but he has ended up looking squirrelly. Last night, the Kerry-Edwards campaign was quick to point out that Cheney and Edwards had indeed met before, and they had photos to prove it.

Like much of the vice president's comments on the campaign trail, his chiding of Edwards for being a Beltway non-entity sounded persuasive, until you find out that what he said was not entirely true. And we're learning more about just how untrue his remarks were as the hours pass. Another apparent falsehood: "Now, in my capacity as vice president, I am the president of Senate, the presiding officer. I'm up in the Senate most Tuesdays when they're in session," Cheney said last night. Over at Daily Kos, someone actually checked the Congressional Record (fancy that) and found that Cheney presided over the Senate "a grand total of two times the past four years -- just as many times as Edwards, who also did so twice."

And the Los Angeles Times points out that Cheney rarely sits in the chamber, and usually only to break a tie vote or swear in new senators -- and he also attends the GOP senators' weekly luncheons to discuss party strategy. It turns out that when Cheney visits the Senate, he seems to avoid Democrats. "But only Republicans attend ," the Times says, "and Cheney usually breezes into the building, goes to the meeting, then leaves without hobnobbing with Democrats. In fact, Cheney was teased by Sen. Patrick J. Leahy (D-Vt.) for only associating with Republicans when, in an encounter on the Senate floor, Cheney cursed at Leahy."

And Cheney had another good line about Edwards' supposed absenteeism from the Senate. "Your hometown newspaper has taken to calling you Senator Gone," Cheney said. Again -- if only. This morning, Edwards' hometown newspaper, the News & Observer, asked of Cheney's reference: "Which paper is that?" The paper could find no mention of "Senator Gone" in its own archives.
(snip/...)

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/index.html

ALL RIGHT! Sure hope this info. gets around. It could backfire on the butthead, if there's any justice.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Here's a link to the DailyKos mentioned in the Salon article, with the names of all the people who presided over the Senate every Tuesday for the last 4 years!

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/10/6/11163/2940

See for yourself! Very interesting.

[Peanut Gallery]

9. Great finds

n/t

[devinsgram]

8. He couldn't preside over the senate.

He was too busy running the country. Can't play president and reside over the senate at the same time.

[shraby]

10. Keith Olbermann on Countdown MSNBC

had it on his show, along with the videos of it. At the swearing in and at the prayer meeting.

[silverpatronus]

11. edwards knew those statements were lies...

so why didn't he hit cheney back with them AT the debate? you have to refute lies IMMEDIATELY or the lie takes hold and gets legs among the uninformed.