U.S.: No-Fly List Created With No Rules

[UpInArms]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4538258,00.html

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - The U.S. government has no ``hard and fast'' rules for deciding who gets put on the secret no-fly list of terror suspects barred from boarding airliners, the Transportation Security Administration said in court papers Friday.

The 301 pages of edited documents, filed in federal court in response to a Freedom of Information Act request by the American Civil Liberties Union, also said the secret list grew from 16 names the day of the Sept. 11 attacks to 594 by mid-December 2001.

The government did not reveal how many people are currently barred from flying or subject to extra screening because they are on watch lists. But for the first time Friday, the government disclosed some information on the criteria it uses to update the no-fly list each day.

One heavily blacked-out document, a report by the General Accounting Office, says getting on a list is guided by two ``primary'' principles: One is whether various intelligence agencies view an individual as a ``potential threat to U.S. civil aviation.'' The other is whether the agency requesting someone be put on a list has provided enough information to identify the person to be flagged at the check-in counter.

...more...

and here: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/10/08/state1611EDT0078.DTL

Feds: no 'hard and fast rules' for developing secret no-fly list

excerpt:

"However, these principles are necessarily subjective, providing guidelines, not 'hard and fast' rules," according to the author of the GAO survey, an intelligence officer for the TSA whose identity was blacked out.

Thomas Burke, an ACLU attorney, suggested that the vagueness of the rules may be one reason why hundreds of fliers are wrongly barred from flying or put through unnecessary searches at airports.

"We have learned more information about the degree to which getting your name on the list is a subjective process," he said.

...more...

[htuttle]

1. There must be at least tens of thousands of people on those lists

I work with a guy who can't fly because somebody else with the same name is on the list. Apparently, the identity checks are no better than the ones Florida says they do on their excluded voter/felon lists.

[leQ]

2. imagine the hell people go thru who are inadvertently refused onboard

i know mine's on some list somewhere. and nobody seems to know how to remove it. talk about having a bad day, but i guess after a couple of tries, i just end up usin the train. they don't keep those nasty-wrought-with-vendetta lists, or so they brag.

this is a bigger problem than you think. and one that i can assure you terrorists are aware of. they let cat stevens on, but wouldn't let someone who's never uttered a cross thing in his life board a domestic flight.

there has got to be a better way. has kerry addressed this at all? what with all the money that has been spent already, you'd think that we'd get some decent value out of it.

[coalition_unwilling]

4. I've seen multiple anecdotal reports of anti-war\anti-* activists

denied boarding rights or hassled for a long time at airports before being allowed to board.

Can't put my hands on any at the moment, but a quick check of the Progressive or the Nation archives should produce the articles.

The best strategy to counter this form of "legal discrimination" is with time-tested strategy from the 50's and 60's of boycotts and sit-ins. It'll take more outrages before the public starts engaging in civil disobedience akin to that which ended Jim Crow.

[struggle4progress]

8. Aw, they can all get their names off the list (if they want to) just by...

... donating to one of Tom DeLay's charities.

[VelmaD]

3. Does anyone know how to find out...

if you're on the no-fly list? Or do you just have to pay your money and hope they let you on the plane when you get to the airport?

[sui generis]

5. I smell a huge class action suit coming on

remember that unpaid parking ticket?

Are you late making a credit card payment?

Have you ever filed a complaint against an airline?

etc. etc. I think that's where it will end up, and no tin foil hat this time.

[DELUSIONAL]

6. Yet another reason why lawyers are our FRIENDS!

It will take a pit-bull type lawyer to get to the bottom of this.

When Senator Ted Kennedy is on that list -- that should be a clue that the list is no damned good.

What it also means -- the terrorists have won!

[Rose Siding]

7. They want to outlaw class action suits, don't they?

This is breathtaking. Our liberty to be determined *subjectively* by bureaucrats in agencies headed by political appointees? Freaky.

[jilln]

9. You'll know.

The "no fly" list is pretty small apparently still, but the "harass at airport" list is very big. I know several people on that one, including myself. It doesn't appear to affect domestic flights (yet) but when we return from other countries, we are taken off the plane by homeland security agents and taken to an interrogation room where we are subjected to lots of inane questions such as "how did you pay for your ticket" and "who are these people in your photos." My last interrogation lasted 2 hours, and I was picked out of a room of about 500 people for special treatment, as if I were the most dangerous person in the room.

I was put on after being arrested an an animal rights demonstration for a class C misdemeanor, charges later dismissed, no other "criminal" record or other arrests. Apparently all it takes is for some policeman somewhere to send your name in. There are LOTS of animal rights, environmental and Green party activists on that list. Do you feel safer?

Oh - and the ACLU and several lawyers are aware of this, but as this will involve suing the Justice Department... no takers yet.