Soldiers caught having sex at the Alamo remain jailed

[UpInArms]

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/2842520

SAN ANTONIO - Two soldiers charged with public lewdness remained jailed Monday after they were observed having sex on the grounds of one of the nation's most revered historic sites, the Alamo.

The active-duty U.S. Army personnel from Fort Sam Houston were arrested on the misdemeanor charges about 5:30 p.m. Sunday.

Several irate visitors had complained they saw them having sexual intercourse.

The witnesses pointed out the oblivious couple to the Alamo Rangers,who found both naked from the waist down.

...more...

[truthisfreedom]

1. perfectly natural. unlike boosh.

[Democracy Died 2004]

85. Need directions to the Alamo

I gotta take a whiz.

[Not Me]

2. Those heteros are at it again...

Compromising the morale of the military :pals:

[0007]

3. How wonderful!

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

4. I was stationed at Fort Sam Houston twice during my Army stint...

Primary training for Army medical MOS's. It was wild and crazy then, I'll bet with imminent combat duty looming for many, it's beyond the pale. Off duty, anything can happen, and usually does. MKJ

[CityHall]

5. This is all Clinton's fault

For sowing his loose morals through the military while Commander in Chief. Or something like that.

[Bunny]

27. Yeah, the mighty Clenis strikes again.

Now it has struck the Alamo! I wonder if it's in the basement with PeeWee's bike?

[TriMetFan]

6. Thats gross.

I'm from S.A. and if the Rangers can put Ozzy in jail for pissing on the Alamo and I'm all for these two being put in jail for screwing. That just sick. Its not like there is no place for them to have gone to. Just down the street there is a couple of cheap motel's.

[napi21]

7. People who've never lived in SA don't realize how serious the

Daughters of the Republic of Texas are regarding the Alamo! When I first moved there, we visited the Alamo, and those women explain to everyone how reverent the atmosphere is, and how you are expected to behave. You are right, there are lots of other places these two could have chosen. They made the WRONG ONE!

[Skittles]

74. you cannot even take pictures inside the Alamo

it's considered a shrine. F***ing in public? I understand the thrill element but, come on. They weren't even trying to be discreet. Disgusting.

[Nevernose]

10. Normally I'm opposed to the death penalty

This might be an exception.

[Bandit]

70. LOL .. I like the way you think

:-)

[Amigust]

87. Argumentus, are you just as righteously indignant over

those who are blowing people apart unnecessarily in Iraq in plain view of others as you seem to be over a couple making love in plain view of others? And would you advise the death penalty for those offenders too?

[Sequoia]

14. Maybe they were too poor

In any case, hooray for them. F the stupid Alamo. One of the most revered? Please, it's just a dopey little chapel so get over it. Too bad they weren't making love at the Lincoln Memorial.

[TryingToWarnYou]

19. Thats not the point...its a national historic site and one that is quite

important to those of us from here. Maybe you could use your tiny brain and imagine if it happened somewhere special that you cared about?

And then it doesnt even touch the issue of two of our uniformed military doing this in public. Theyre lucky I wasnt one of the arresting officers. If any children had been near, they could be finding themselves facing quite a bit more than just public lewdness charges.

[RivetJoint]

22. Don't worry

The Army is gonna hammer those two idiots.

[KinkyDem]

24. Funny ...

I've made it a point in my life to do what I find most special in life in the places I find most special ... ie sex in fun and interesting places.

The fact that they got caught makes them not too sly, the fact that they did it has no bearing to me.

[Yunaleska]

32. Hmmm

"important to those of us from here"

Texas here. Don't give a damn. Won't be losing any sleep over it, and won't be giving it a second thought after this.

"happened somewhere special that you cared about?"

This isn't how we base our laws. First it's sad that you consider sex at the Alamo (oh whoop de doo) as opposed to anywhere else all that shocking. Second, sex can be very special between two people. You seem to consider it something bad. I don't see two people sharing that in a special place all that wrong. I agree they could have chosen a better place, but you certainly know how to blow something out of proportion.

"Theyre lucky I wasnt one of the arresting officers"

Why? So you could do some time in the cell next to them? Your high and mighty attitude is shattered with this statement. Sounds like you're willing to break the law just the same. Probably a violent crime too. So sex = justification of violence. God I love the state of the country today. Blow someones head off on TV for all to see? Just fine! Show a breast and oh my god it's in the end of the world. No wonder the world thinks we're nuts.

"If any children had been near, they could be finding themselves facing quite a bit more than just public lewdness charges."

Such as? Unless they brought them in to it I am aware of nothing else they could be charged with.

By the way... Ever been to the Alamo? I wonder what could be more damaging to a child... the idea of mass murder and slaughter or seeing two adults have sex... gee that's a tough one.

[RivetJoint]

34. What mass murder took place at the Alamo?

[Yunaleska]

36. Are you being serious?

nt

[RivetJoint]

43. Yeah, I am

We normally don't call what happened at the Alamo "murder." It was combat. Yes, there is a difference.

[Yunaleska]

65. Whatever

Go ahead and play childish word games.

My point is still the same - and the mental impact on a child is the same regardless of if you call it murder or "combat".

[RivetJoint]

67. It's not a childish word game

Words mean things. I don't see where we have problems with kids visiting the Alamo, do you?

[Yunaleska]

69. Spin spin spin

The original point was that the people freaking out about this are usually the same ones who are totally silent with massive amounts of violence in the media.

Seeing people get killed is a HELL OF A LOT more damaging to a child than seeing two adults having sex. Yet, these people who freak out about a child seeing a breast on TV don't say a damn thing when the next show comes on showing people getting blown away.

Only in America.

[realcountrymusic]

39. Naturalized Texan Dittos

Lived there 8 years, loved every minute and most of the people I knew.

F*ck the Alamo. A monument to imperialism and death. I spent lots of time in SA and never once visited the place, nor did I know any Native San Antonians (granted most of my friends were Mexicans or stoner musicians) who gave a sh*t about it either. Tourist trap. I was never prouder of Ozzy than when he pissed on it. And that's saying something, since I love the Oz.

RCM

[TryingToWarnYou]

47. Interesting set of values you have there...

[realcountrymusic]

53. Ah, I'm just jiving

Sarcasm by exaggeration, you know? Hey, the Alamo ain't a church, and even if it were, I'm an atheist. I love Texas, but not enough to want to punish two brave soldiers for having sex in the Alamo, let alone punish them worse just because it was the Alamo and not the Riverwalk.

As much as I love Texas, I never got the "don't mess with Texas" spirit. It's a state, not a religion.

RCM

[TryingToWarnYou]

54. The Alamo is considered a shrine, just as the Missions here are.

I still think they should have fucked one another on the tomb of one of the dead soldiers at Ft. Sam.

/exaggerated sarcasm.

[DS1]

86. It's a shrine?

Gimmie a fuckin break.

"Hey ya'll, we done got our asses kicked here"

[TryingToWarnYou]

45. Heh..

Yunaleska wrote:

"Texas here. Don't give a damn. Won't be losing any sleep over it, and won't be giving it a second thought after this."

Maybe you dont give a damn, but some of us do. Its disgusting and lacks total and complete respect for the site and what it represents. I guess it would have been ok to bend her over a tombstone at Ft. Sam National Cemetery too? Both sites are equally revered here.

"This isn't how we base our laws. First it's sad that you consider sex at the Alamo (oh whoop de doo) as opposed to anywhere else all that shocking."

You are ASSuming. Its sex in public and its against the law.

"Second, sex can be very special between two people. You seem to consider it something bad."

I consider it bad when its in public in full view of others, including children. Theres a reason its against the law. Maybe sex in public is your ideal situation, but its not for most folks.

"I don't see two people sharing that in a special place all that wrong. I agree they could have chosen a better place, but you certainly know how to blow something out of proportion."

Like I said, he should have fucked her at the Ft. Sam Cemetery right? Thats a special place too, using your reasoning.

"Why? So you could do some time in the cell next to them? Your high and mighty attitude is shattered with this statement. Sounds like you're willing to break the law just the same."

Why? Because as an officer you charge people with the highest offense possible under the statutes covering sex offenses. If the elements of the offense are present, you can and should charge them as high as possible. Last time I looked, enforcing the law isnt breaking it.

"Probably a violent crime too. So sex = justification of violence. God I love the state of the country today."

Where, O where did I say that? Again you are ASSUMING. Try asking some questions if you want to know the answers, Kreskin.

"If any children had been near, they could be finding themselves facing quite a bit more than just public lewdness charges."

Such as? Unless they brought them in to it I am aware of nothing else they could be charged with.

This is applicable if the conduct meets other statutory requirements. Personally, I would have sought something higher than indecent exposure or public lewdness if possible.

By the way... Ever been to the Alamo? I wonder what could be more damaging to a child... the idea of mass murder and slaughter or seeing two adults have sex... gee that's a tough one.

Again, if you need directions to the Ft. Sam Cemetery, just ask.

[Yunaleska]

68. The sky is falling

Spare me your lecture. I'm sure you never did anything stupid when you were a teen.

90% of your response is either word play "oh I didn't say THAT" (even though it was suggested) and skirting around the reality of the matter. The same tactics the right use with their high and mighty moral bull sh*t.

Guess what? This isn't a serious crime no matter how much you'd like it to be. Seeing two adults having sex (yes, even if it's a child in your "think about the children" spin example) isn't going to scar anyone for life. If seeing it is going to cause you or anyone else some kind of long term mental issue then I would suggest you either 1. See a therapist or 2. Grow up.

Fine them and move on with life.

[RivetJoint]

20. Too poor?

Screw that. They make enough to rent a cheap motel room AND they both have dorm rooms or get a housing allowance from the Army. Those dumbasses need to spend a few days in jail before the Army tosses them out on their rearends.

And the Alamo is FAR more than a chapel.

[skooooo]

8. Just so they'd remember the Alamo..

is that so wrong?

[struggle4progress]

9. Sounds like a good place for Pete Sessions to flash. eom

[peekaloo]

11. Remember the Alamoooooo-oooooooo-ooooooooo

[Catherine Vincent]

12. LMAO!

I'm thinking of that howl from that chick that was on the movie "Porky's".:-)

[daleo]

13. Make love, not war

They seem to have chosen the wrong decade to act out the expression.

[maxsolomon]

15. good for them

hope it was worth it.

[Minstrel Boy]

16. WWDCD?

What would Davey Crockett do?

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

49. Little boys. That would be my guess.

[Downtown Hound]

17. Still jailed?

Yikes. I think we can let them out now. I don't think they're really a danger to anyone. And if this turns out to be some kind of "Oh my Lord, they dissed the Alamo!" case I'm going to puke. Fuck the damn Alamo.

[RivetJoint]

18. The Army is going to throw the book at these two

They will definitely receive punishment from the Army; at least Article 15 action, maybe a court martial.

Dumbasses!

[LeftyChristian]

21. As a native San Antonian

Your comments are extremely inappropriate. It shows a massive lack of respect.

The Alamo is a memorial to the men who fought and died in the Texas Revolution. Park Rangers make everyone remove their hats before entering and a plaque on the front door reads "Be silent, friend, here heroes died to blaze a trail for other men." Maybe you disagree, but the least you can do is have respect. These two will be dealt with by the army.

[AspenRose]

29. Do you remember when the KKK used to march in front of the Alamo

on May 1st? To "protect" it from "communists?" Or when Ozzy did what he did?

For some reason sometimes the Alamo is a magnet for disrespectful behavior.

:shrug:

Not saying it's right...but it's often a weirdo magnet.

[LeftyChristian]

38. I definitely remember what Ozzy did

I was pretty young back then, but that will always stick out in my mind. Can't say that I remember the KKK, but you are right, the Alamo is a magnet for wierdness.

[Downtown Hound]

31. It's not that I have no respect for The Alamo

but come on, lighten up. This is exactly what I'm talking about. So these two kids got down there? Big fucking deal. Arrest them, give them a citation, and let it go. They weren't out to desecrate any sacred monument or anything. They were just kids who thought it would be fun to do it in an unusual place. There's no need to get all holy about it. It's not the Alamo that I have no respect for, it's the holier than thou attitude of people who are acting exactly like you're acting, like they committed some sin against a sacred monument. Lighten' up.

[RivetJoint]

33. The Army is going to give them A LOT more

than a citation...

[Downtown Hound]

37. I know, and that's what pisses me off

'cause you know, it's okay to go over to Iraq and blow up innocent people. It's okay to be a complete fuck up if you're rich like our commander in chief. It's okay to take steroids if you're in the special forces and speed if you're in the Air Force, but HAVE SEX IN THE ALAMO? Hang 'em! Hang 'em high, the army says.

[RivetJoint]

46. Rules is rules

They knew 'em, they broke 'em. Dumbasses.

[AspenRose]

42. Technically speaking, they did

The Alamo is considered a shrine.

Right there with Mission San Jose and the other San Antonio missions....considered a holy place.

Personally I don't subscribe to that, but I respect those who do, and respect what happened there.

I concede the point about sex in a public place, though; because that 'public place' happened to be the Alamo, however, it will raise lots of tensions.

[Downtown Hound]

48. And if they had sex in either of the two missions, I'd feel the same way

in that I really wouldn't give a damn. Kids being stupid kids just doesn't offend me that much.

[LeftyChristian]

51. Impressive

<i>They weren't out to desecrate any sacred monument or anything.</i>

But that's what they ended up doing. Glad you were privy to their motives since it made no mention of them in the article.

<i>Fuck the damn Alamo.</i>
Ah now I can see the respect you have for the Alamo. I guess I just needed to go back and reread your original post.

<i>Arrest them, give them a citation, and let it go.</i>
Since only a handful of people visit the Alamo anyway let's go ahead and turn it into a bath house. Let's shoot for sex on the USS Arizona Memorial next, but only after everybody gets their rocks off on the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. They're just kids afterall.

[Downtown Hound]

55. Man, you people are some uptight human beings

This is why I'm glad I don't live in Texas. Oh well, I'm done with this thread. You've shown me the error of my ways. I hope those two scumbags get crucified. Give em' hell! Show 'em what happens when you're 18 and 19 and get carried away with your hormones! See ya!

[RivetJoint]

57. Hey, as soliders, they should have known better

they were idiots and deserve to be punished for it.

Why didn't they just do it in their dorm rooms?

[TryingToWarnYou]

52. For the hundredth time: A citation was not an option under law.

Class A misdemeanors in Texas = Go to jail.

[realcountrymusic]

60. As a non-native former Texan

I don't get it. I never did. The Texas revolution protected the rights of a landed gentry class to (in essence) *own* Mexican peones. I take the Tejano perspective. A lot of them are Native Texans too. I have no more respect for the Alamo than I do for statues of Jefferson Davis.

RCM

[TryingToWarnYou]

35. Ill excuse your ignorance...

The fact that they are still in jail has NOTHING to do with it having occured at the Alamo.

The charge is Public Lewdness (vanilla charge for "having sex in public") and is an arresting offense. If they cant make bail, or in this case, if the military hasnt come to get them, then they are going to sit in jail until they do.

[Downtown Hound]

41. You're missing my point

I don't think they should have gone to jail at all. They could have been arrested, given a citation, and let go. They're in jail for having sex. Sorry if I don't think that sex is such a big deal. No, I don't think you should be allowed to do it wherever and when ever you want to, but this is getting blown up into some major offense because they did it in the Alamo. I've seen people having sex in movie theaters, and even if they did get arrested for it, it would not have made national news because it wasn't in the Alamo. Do you see my point? These kids are going to be crucified for what they've done because they chose to do it in the Alamo. What they've done is no different that what a lot of kids do, they just did it in a place that people consider sacred, so now they're going to be treated like scum. Pretty stupid if you ask me.

[TryingToWarnYou]

50. No, I got your point...

Whether you think they should have been jailed or not doesnt really matter..its how the law is defined. Sex in public = go to jail. No citation, no warning, thats it.

Its not "going to jail for having sex". Its going to jail for having sex in public. B I G difference. If the law bothers you, contact your representative about changing it.

When movie theatres are national historic sites and the burial ground for a couple hundred people, I might agree with you about having sex in public there not being any big deal.

Im sorry, but theres a time and a place for everything and that wasnt the time or the place.

[Xipe Totec]

75. The issue is selective enforcement

I've lived in Texas and got caught 'doing it' right in the middle of a college campus and did not go to jail. The cop just said "can you people find a more private place next time?"

There is a difference between what the law says and how it is enforced. Those soldiers DID get arrested because they 'did it' at the Alamo. I venture to say that the cops would not have bothered if they were at a less sensitive historical site.

[Jack_DeLeon]

77. Wow, so the cop gave you a break...

big deal.

I can understand why the authorites didnt give them a break, considering that they were fucking in a historical site that is a big tourist attraction that has tons of visitors and some children.

I generally have no problems with sex, porn, prostituties, having sex in your car, having sex in some semi-secluded public place, having sex behind some bushes, having sex in the woods.

IMO its definately wrong to have sex in a church or any other well trafficed public place.

Remember those people who got arrested and heavily fined for having sex in St. Patrick's Cathedral, this is no different.

[951]

23. Arrested were Matthew Hotard, 19, and Kurt Nissel, 18, officials said.

:D

[RivetJoint]

25. Damn

They are in BIG trouble, now. But at least they won't be going to Iraq!

[951]

26. Poo they won't get to see their friends getting blow up or disfigured :(

...Damn it what were these kids thinking? :bounce:

[RivetJoint]

28. Just saying that MAY have been a reason

to get caught.

[951]

30. I understood what you were saying

...my second reply was a lame attempt at being humorous :D

[pinniped]

71. What the !@#$ is that pic?

Is that Mann?

:scared:

[realcountrymusic]

40. What's that Arlo Guthrie line?

If one person does it, they think he's crazy

If two people do it, they think they're queer

But if three people do it, it's a f*cking MOVEMENT?

Something like that.

I think those boys may have just figured out a brilliant way to avoid dying in a useless war.

RCM

[Rockholm]

44. Article says "Kristine Nissel." Not Kurt.

Please read the article before changing the names. Geez.

[realcountrymusic]

61. Oh, well that's OK then

/sarcasm

[Bandit]

72. Now I understand the big fuss..they were both guys

I couldn't understand the mentality here for a while but now I see it is homophobia that is the big issue, not just getting caught having sex in public. No wonder so many people want to crucify them.

[Rockholm]

80. It was Kristine, not Kurt!

[Forkboy]

56. LOL

the urge to merge can be overwhelming.

[Chovexani]

58. Classy.

:eyes:

[saracat]

59. Wow! How incredibly stupid! I assume they will also face unbecoming

conduct charges from the military? And BTW, some of the posts in this thread are just the kind of thing the other side will grab and publish to hurt the Kerry Campaign. As a victim of this I urge a little caution in phrasing. We are too close to the election to be used to flame anti Kerry feeling.

[RivetJoint]

64. Well, they won't face "Conduct Unbecoming"

charges since they are not officers or NCOs. But, they will face charges that their actions are prejudicial to good order and discipline and charges that their actions are likely to bring discredit on the armed forces. That, plus the indecent exposure charge.

[Forkboy]

66. Out of curiosity,what posts here will hurt Kerry?

[saracat]

73. Posts indicating support of this behaviour can be used against us to

reflect badly on the Campaign. Say whatever you want but choose your words with care. (don't I sound like Ari Fleisher/) but this is a close race folks and I know what happened to me.We needn't hand them any ammo.

[devilgrrl]

62. Were they caught screwing in the basement of the Alamo?

????

[Jack from Charlotte]

82. They were just looking for Pee Wee Herman's bike....

Call mister Herman. Calling Mr. PW Herman.

[TexasBushwhacker]

63. 5:30 pm - Geez!

Couldn't they wait until sundown at least?

[highnooner]

76. Note to self

DO NOT HAVE SEX AT THE ALAMO!

[AirAmFan]

78. 'You can't do that in here--this is the War Room!' Remember Dr.

Strangelove? The tone of the lead-in for this thread seems just as completely ridicuous to me.

[skrunch]

79. "The day ya cain't knock boots at the Alamo is...

...the day ya let the tairist's win."

s/ The Masturbating Ghost of Davy Crockett

[Spirochete]

81. I would guess

that they did this either on a dare, or a bet. Hope they made a lot of money - they're probably in a good deal of trouble.

[Jackpine Radical]

83. Wow. That headline confused me.

I thought you meant they'd been in jail since 1836 or something.

[AngryAmish]

84. Were they in the basement?

[Deja Q]

88. What, no pictures?

:shrug:

[Amigust]

89. What a tempest in a teapot !

eom

[happyslug]

90. The real crime was where main fighting ocurred is NOT the present Alamo.

The Mexicans attacked the North Wall and than pushed the Texans into the "Long Barracks" (where most Texans died). Few Texans died aroudn the old Church (The present "Alamo"). As to the "Long Barracks" there were mostly destroyed afterwards (Through Some of it remains and has been rebuilt). Thus we only have part of the historic Alamo, to really appraicate the battle and what the defenders went through you have to realize how big the orgianl Alamo was and that the Church was a minor part of it (Even the big arch over the Church is a product of use in the 1840s and 1850s, the Church did not have its arch in 1836 when the battle was fought).


Maps of the Alamo Complex, past and present:
http://www.gnelsonstudio.com/Alampics_frame.html
http://hotx.com/alamo/bexar.html

Information on the History of the Alamo (Excepting 1836):
http://www.the-alamo-san-antonio.com/html/alamo-history-chronology.htm
http://www.seguindescendantshp.com/Alamo%20History.htm
http://www.texfiles.com/ERAapril02/secondbattle.htm