Allawi demands Falluja turn over Zarqawi or face invasion

[ShinPath]

BBC World has just reported that Iraqi PM Allawi has demanded that
Falluja residents turn over foreign insurgent leader Al-Zarqawi or "face a military invasion."

If this is not an empty threat and the attack really goes through it is a BIG gamble by Bush. If he can get the Iraqi National Guard to go in first with US Marine backup/aircover and conquer the city Israeli-style, then he will score big points with undecided American voters who want Al-Qaida scalps. As a Democrat I can and will complain about the timing, but back earlier this year I freely admit was in favor of going in after the four U.S. 'contractors' were chopped into bits. (But that's what 'they' wanted, I know...) Now, if the insurgents hold out as they did last time and there are the inevitable massive civilian casualties (or other cities rise up) then Dubya loses. However, the best Iraqi units, the two brigades who helped take Samarra two weeks ago, may be able to pull it off. Who knows, maybe they are former Republican Guards? But it is a kickass Texas gamble. To the U.S. Marines backing them up, well, good luck, but you know you are going to take out some non-combatants again. You boys mean well but you just can't help it. It's the friendlies' fight but this election is SO on the line. I am going to take my place along the casino wall, fold my arms, and watch how the cards play out here in this high stakes poker game. Oh, and have my waterproof boots on in case the blood gets ankle high. This might just be the October surprise, either way it goes...

[Nickster]

1. Oh yeah that'll work

-rolleyes- Talk about a hollow threat.

[ladybugg33]

34. I believe you can color Allawi "gone." How can you turn over a mirage?

These terrorists are ghosts that the US is using to keep the war on terra hyped.

[theHandpuppet]

2. I see... a massacre would really inspire confidence

God help them... and shame on us.

[atreides1]

3. Interesting

The two Iraqi Brigades were backed up by 3,000 US troops with armor and air support, not exactly a shining example of capability.

I don't wish good luck to anyone who has enjoyed bombing and killing civilians, and then saying that they were only targeting safe houses.
The Marines don't mean well in this case, they want revenge, they want blood, and I don't really think that they care about how many
women and children are killed in this upcoming operation.

Once it's become clear that all the Iraqi people are getting is Saddam Lite, the rest of the country may very well rise up, and the blood that will flow will require you to wear hip waders.

[DuctapeFatwa]

5. Falluja has been invaded contiunuously for weeks, and the people there

may not know where Zarq is buried. I think customs there have special rules for tomb location for composite characters.

[tlcandie]

7. This was my question...

Is there even anything left to bomb in Falluja besides grave markers? :cry:

[coalition_unwilling]

25. A couple days ago, we bombed the al Zarqawi diner <sarcasm>

[Go Eagles]

4. Going into Falluja

is a totally different ball game than Samara. If the US Marines were held to a stand still at the outskirts of the city last spring, I highly doubt two Iraqi brigades with Marine support would have much more success. Insurgents have had six months to re-entrench and retaking the city would be really bloody and ugly from civilian and military casualties and even after the city is retaken, what are you left with? Does Bush plan to turn it into another Grozny?

[cspiguy]

22. If the US Marines were held to a stand still

that's not what happened. It was a political withdrawl/handover. USMC was NOT stopped by insurgence - only our unwillingness to cause civilian casualties.

[tabasco]

32. Not only our unwillingness to cause civilian casualties.

Also our unwillingness to take scores of US casualties. Falluja is a big town. I'm sure it's fortified and booby-trapped now. We can take it, no doubt. But a lot of grunts are going to die (no offense - I'm a grunt myself).

Bush has let the security situation deteriorate by reducing the operational tempo. This is only for political reasons.

I would be surprised if they launch on Falluja before the election. But maybe they are thinking Americans will rally behind the chimp if we get into a big fight. Not likely IMO.

[aneerkoinos]

38. Yes they were.

The attempt to take the city with three battallions of Marines failed miserably, they got nowhere for a week. What would have happened with reinforcements is anybody's guess.

"Unwillingness to cause civilian casualties"? Ask the thousands of dead Iraqi civilians about that. Oops, you cant, they're dead.

The attempt was aborted because everything between and around Baghdad Green zone and Fallujah was in flames and even the installed puppets were threatening to resign from their posts and leave Bremer alone.

Too much Faux TV?

[Barrett808]

6. Saddam must disarm

I'm seriously starting to wonder if Zarqawi even exists.

[jmcgowanjm]

8. USforces retreat from Yusufiyah&Latifyah-101204

Fighting rages on Hit front as Resistance traps US forces.

In a dispatch posted at 6:30pm Mecca time (7:30pm local
time) the Mafkarat al-Islam correspondent in Hit reported
that clashes still continued at that hour in the area of Hit and al-Hadithah (Where Rummy landed Sunday)
, but that the intensity of fighting was less at that hour than it
had been earlier in the day and the previous night.

Resistance forces succeeded in surprising and
completely encircling US troops for 24 hours in the ash-
Shatt (“Riverbank”) area in Hit, and extremely fierce
fighting raged in that area in which river gunboats took part.
The Americans remained besieged in that part of town until
US F-16s came in and broke the encirclement by
dropping large-size container bombs each full of anti-
personnel cluster bombs.

The large-size container is the equivalent of 16 regular
container bombs, each releasing 3,000 cluster bombs. Thus
a total of 40,000 cluster bombs were dropped on Hit as
US forces sought to escape their encirclement. Not
surprisingly, the targets of the unguided cluster bombs
included civilians. Between 25 and 28 Iraqi private homes
were destroyed Monday night and Tuesday in the course of
the savage US bombing.

Forty US Marines were killed in the battle.

uruknet.info/

[jmcgowanjm]

10. Four CIA officers, six Marines captured amidst fierce fighting in Hit.

US suffers second biggest defeat in Iraq. 80 percent of
American forces withdraw from al-Latifiyah - al-Yusufiyah
area south of Baghdad after failed
offensive.

Which seemed to be designed to prevent US from being encircled like US was in April at Fallujah.

And Latifiyah seems to be the US fueling depot.

Resistance cuts road shutting off fuel supplies to US forces
in al-Latifiyah area, as Americans devise propaganda
campaign.

[Aidoneus]

14. thanks for occasionally keeping up with these bits

sorry to say I haven't kept up with Nasr's reports as of late.. you posting these every now & then helps, thanks. :toast:

[jmcgowanjm]

16. I'd post more but I didn't know how interested you were

You can go here for regular (long) updates.

uruknet.info/

Also from uruknet:

The brass are going nuts trying to stop this electronic tsunami
of truth that’s washing over the land courtesy of a generation
of sharp kids who’ve been armed with computers since age
4. Kids who glory in staying three irrepressible steps ahead
of their minders via blogs, dummy ISP addresses and cute
tricks like sending e-mails to cutouts for forwarding to guys
like me.

So the brass have reverted to the weapon they’ve used to
silence warriors since long before Caesar was running
Rome: intimidation. The troops are being warned: Shut up; and
if you don’t button it, you’ll be drummed out of the
service. - Col David H. Hackworth

The more the DoD tries to shut Nasr down, the more
interested I am in what he's printing.

[Aidoneus]

21. where to also get them..

albasrah.net regularly keeps Nasr's reports posted a day or three after they're compiled, and no less than a billion other articles collected from all over every day--I'm just sort of a lazy shit and don't read as much anymore. :) / :(
didn't know about that site tho', thanks.

A bit skeptical of the bodycounts his sources provide, which are primarily Mafkarat reporters on the ground for the last few months, that aside reporting otherwise on the matter is among the best and most detailed first-hand that there is anywhere. Their sources are as close to the action as can be found and quite openly report events as they occur. That is invaluable as a record, considering everything else as one sees fit.

Nasr provides quite a service to history and the world in so regularly translating & compiling these works. He used to post to a couple mailing lists I used to read, and wrote sporatic bits to FAV before finding his real calling with the invasion.. Never spoke to him on these lists, but I took a liking to his work and kept up with it when I can. Not saying this for your benefit, you obviously already know this, and that is good, but for those who ritually bemoan the lack of decent coverage from the whole alphabet of media corps here.

[DuctapeFatwa]

23. I have more confidence in Mafkarat's bodycounts than I do in CNNcom's

It stands to reason that they are not going to be completely accurate, if the Resistance blows up a convoy and the Mafkarat guy peers through the smoke from behind a rock and says 43, that is a lot more credible than the guy in Baghdad who two days later, listens to the US briefing guy say 2 and dutifully copies it down before going back to the bar.

For those interested in events in Iraq, I would suggest reading a wide variety of sources, and Mafkarat does have reporters on the ground.

[leftchick]

26. thanks for these reports jmcgowanjm...

when all is said and done with this fiasco watch for a sudden HUGE increase in dead and wounded US military personel.

[Moderator]

9. Try to find a link if you can

Thank you

[DuctapeFatwa]

20. Here's link to article, and the DU thread

http://www.albasrah.net/moqawama/english/0110/iraqiresistancereport_9-111004.htm

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2483438&mesg_id=2483438

[Career Prole]

11. You'll complain about the timing of this?

But didn't notice the timing of this?
"but back earlier this year I freely admit was in favor of going in after the four U.S. 'contractors' were chopped into bits."

Let's see...four U.S. "security specialists" got "chopped into bits" at the end of March '04, as I recall.
Were they being hated for their freedom, as some would have you believe?
Maybe...but what else went on around that time?
March 20: Six soldiers face charges stemming from alleged abuse at the prison. The military announces the beginning of possible court-martial proceedings.

Mid-April: Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, asks CBS-TV to delay airing photographs it has obtained of abuse at Abu Ghraib. Myers says the photos would exacerbate an intense period of violence under way in Iraq. CBS delays its program for two weeks.
Mind you, the word of the Abu Ghraib torture didn't need to come via military announcement to the Iraqi people...they'd been complaining since the year before and had been ignored. I'd be willing to bet every person in that mob that day knew about the torture and that many were related to or knew someone in Abu Ghraib. The military merely confirmed it for them and brought the crushing reality of it home to them.
IMO, those four mercenaries were payback for Abu Ghraib, and we got off light at that.

[Heyo]

12. All politics aside...

That guy Zarqawi needs to have an "addicent". The sooner, the better.

Heyo

[Jazzgirl]

15. Does Zarqawi really exist? I doubt if he's in Iraq if he does!

They've been pushing this Zarqawi crap forever and it doesn't wash. Iraqi's have yet to see him. I doubt he's anywhere close to Iraq. No one has shown any proof he is even in the area. Films of hostages where US military say Zarqawi is speaking show some hooded person. No way to tell who it is! I think his name is being used as a decoy.

[leftchick]

13. Here is a link.....

But this is all there is...


BAGHDAD, Oct. 13 (Xinhuanet) -- Iraqi Prime Minister Iyad Allawi told the people of Fallujah on Wednesday to hand over foreign fighters loyal to the Jordanian-born Abu Musab al-Zarqawi or face military operations.

"If Zarqawi and his group are not handed over to us, we are ready for major offensive against Fallujah," Allawi told members of the National Council in Baghdad. Enditem


http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-10/13/content_2086927.htm

On Edit: here is another...



Iraq government threatens to retake Fallujah by force
By Jenny Booth, Times Online


Iyad Allawi, the Iraqi Prime Minister, today threatened full-scale military action against Fallujah unless it hands over Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and the militants under his command, who are said to be based in the rebel-held city.

News of the ultimatum came as the Mr al-Zarqawi's terror group, which kidnapped and murdered the British contractor Ken Bigley, uploaded a video on the internet showing two Iraqi government agents being beheaded.

<snip>
Today Mr Allawi told Iraq's interim national council: "If Zarqawi and his group are not handed over to us, we are ready for major operations in Fallujah."

Iraqi officials are in talks with Fallujah city representatives to restore government control, which disintegrated after the Marines ended a three-week siege in late April.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7374-1307896,00.html

[muriel_volestrangler]

17. The last known location of the apparent Zarqawi

was Latifiyah, where people say he killed Ken Bigley. Does this mean that the US cannot stop him going into and out of Fallujah at will? Or does it show that he is being used as a bogeyman, popping up whever they want to say he is?

[DuctapeFatwa]

19. Lie! I had breakfast with him this morning at Burger King

Well, he said it was him, but it was hard to tell with that hokey King head he wears sometimes. I don't know who gave him that thing, but he can't eat well with it. I have double croissandwich crumbs all over my shoes now.

[coalition_unwilling]

28. He's got the latest al Quaida tele-porter <sarcasm>

[sangh0]

18. The US is now trying to "pacify" Iraq

which, like the pacification of South Viet Nam, involves the massacre of civilians who are seen by our military as "sheltering" the insurgents.

We have been bombing places like Fallulja and Sadr City in Bagdhad based on "intelligence" about "insurgents". This "intelligence" is nothing more than some Iraqi telling US officers something which may or not be true. We don't care - We bomb anyway.

Even if the info is bad, and we end up bombing innocent civilians, our military sees it as a win because they believe it will lead the population to reject the insurgents for bringing the US military to bear on them.

IOW, we are killing innocent citizens deliberately, in the hopes that they will turn against the fighters amongst them.

[Disturbed]

24. al Zarqawi Handover?

Was there a deadline?

[daleo]

27. I wonder if Allawi will make it to the U.S. alive

At this rate, he will need to be on the last helicopter flight out of the green zone.

[genius]

29. They're going to have fun turning over the dead guy.

Karqawi was killed in March, or so our government claimed.

[silverpatronus]

30. didn't the CIA kill zarqawi back in march?

very convenient how he's popped up from the dead. also, didn't they try this whole fallujah thing before and get their arses handed to them so bad that they had to abandon ship?

[sofa king]

33. No, he was killed in 2003 in Afghanistan.

Then, he reanimated escaped to Iran.

Then, he lost a leg.

Then, the Iranians let him go.

Then, he tried to blow up a chemical depot in Jordan.

Then, he grew his leg back and beheaded Nick Berg.

Zarqawi, having been pimped by the Bush administration as the Osama We Might Actually Catch, is as ripe as a pumpkin for an October (surprise) harvesting.

How many American boys are going to die trying to bag him in time for the elections?

[saigon68]

35. Dozens more will die

Thousands of orphans created

Hundreds of new angry Freedom Fighters created

That's freedom as in freedom from having Christian occupiers of their land

[Tight_rope]

31. Yes...Oh smart one Allawi...That should work...(Bush* ideology works well)

[pinniped]

36. They cloned al-Zarqawi and they're running rampant all over the ME.

The clones kidnap foreigners, cut off heads, make videotapes, make audiotapes, regenerate legs, have secret militant meetings at diners, hang out at safehosues, build and place IEDs, get a free daily plug on every US news outlet, and cost the US taxpayers millions and millions in bombs and ordnances.

[hatrack]

37. How do you invade a city if it's located in your own country?

Particularly if you're the head of the government?

Just asking . . .

[Disturbed]

39. It's an excuse to invade.

The U.S. Puppet was told to announce this. The U.S. puppet masters know damn well that if Zargawi exists that he will never be turned in.

[Richardson08]

40. How many American kids are going to be sacrificed to free Falluja?

Who is Allawi?