US to rate its allies on their treatment of Jews

[emad]

The Telegraph
By David Rennie in Washington
(Filed: 13/10/2004)

In another test of America's frayed relations with France, Russia and other allies, the US Congress has ordered the State Department to start rating governments throughout the world on their treatment of Jewish citizens.

The resulting report cards on anti-Semitism would be published in annual US surveys of human rights abuses around the world.

The proposed law was passed by the House of Representatives on Monday, in response to what its sponsors called an alarming surge in anti-Semitism, especially in Europe. It has already been passed by the Senate.

Congress overruled strong opposition from diplomats at the State Department who complained in an internal memo that a special focus on Judaism, "opens us to charges of favouritism and challenges the credibility of our reporting".There is little doubt that the new law will create diplomatic waves.
More:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/10/13/wus13.xml&sSheet=/portal/2004/10/13/ixportal.html

[rooboy]

1. World to rate US on its treatment of muslims. n/t

[emad]

3. From Al Jazeera:

Does the U.S. use Israel as its proxy to threaten Syria and other Middle East countries?!

Israel’s bloody assassination of Izz el-Deen al-Sheikh Khalil, a senior Hamas leader, in the Syrian capital of Damascus, is seen as a clear confirmation that if any country merits the title of a “rogue state”, it is Israel.

When nobody from any part of the world U.S., Europe or even the Middle East condemned Khalil’s assassination, then there can be only one explanation. Israel not only has the U.S.'s full support but it is also acting as Washington’s proxy in the Middle east. The U.S. is using Israel as its subcontractor to threaten Syria and Iran, carry out military strikes and reorganize the region in its interests.

Sharon was the most enthusiastic advocate in the Begin cabinet of Israel’s 1981 air strike on Iraq’s Osirak nuclear plant. His government has repeatedly warned that it may take a direct action against Iran to stop its nuclear bomb “going critical.”

Instead of restraining Sharon, the U.S. gave a boost to Israel’s violence by providing it with 500 “bunker busters” that the latter would surely use against Iran or possibly Syria—as Israeli security experts admit. So unlike the 1981 attack that took place without the knowledge of President Ronald Reagan, a similar attack would be carried out against Iran but with the USA aid.

http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/conspiracy_theory/fullstory.asp?id=164

[JP Belgium]

9. Saudis get a wild-card ??? (n/t)

[jmcgowanjm]

11. a similar attack would be carried out against Iran but with the USA aid.

If Israel attacks Iran, DU will have to make an
announcement. It can start like this:

Whatever good the existence of the State of Israel may or
may not have done, the current government of Israel is
quickly undoing. The Sharon government is a giant laboratory
for the growing of the anti-Semitism virus. It exports it to
the whole world. Anti-Semitic organizations, which for
many years vegetated on the margins of society, rejected
and despised, are suddenly growing and
flowering. Anti-Semitism, which had hidden itself in shame
since World War II, is now riding on a great wave of opposition
to Sharon's policy of oppression.

http://www.tikkun.org/magazine/index.cfm/action/tikkun/issue/tik0211/article/021111f.html

And end kinda like this:

DU demands therefore that the US has no choice but to pull it's forces from Iraq
and send them to enforce the 1967 Israeli/Palestinian
borders, declaring Jerusalem to be an Open City.

And if I was Iran, between now and the Election
I would have my best people at earlyAM positions
watching the JFK in the Persian Gulf.

[JohnyCanuck]

5. And African-Americans.

Depriving a whole bunch of them of their democratic right to vote in the last Presidential election would push the overall grade down a bit I should think.

[DulceDecorum]

10. Then and now

The four days of Crown Heights riots began August 19, 1991, after a station wagon in a motorcade carrying Rabbi Menachem Schneerson, a leader of an international Hasidic sect, ran a red light and struck and killed Gavin Cato, a black 7-year-old. THE DRIVER NEVER FACED CHARGES IN THE ACCIDENT.
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/LAW/01/07/crown.heights.decision/

The media identified the assailants as being of African and North African origins, and many French presumed they were Muslims.
http://www.somethingjewish.co.uk/articles/1078_fake_attack_shock.htm

[coalition_unwilling]

24. How many ways can U.S. hypocrisy be measured?

I wonder if our annual report on human rights abuses will mention, oh, let's see, Abu Graib, Gitmo, Bagram and all the "disappeareds" referenced by Human Rights Watch in its report yesterday.

[fugue]

6. Yeah, I'm inclined to agree

I'm by no means for anti-Semitism and I do agree that it still exists, but I do think that it's less of a problem in today's world than anti-Islamic biases. (It's also less of an issue than racism against blacks, in my opinion.)

The proof of this is very simple. Take one of those right-wing pundits' rants on Muslims and insert "Jew" wherever it says "Muslim," "Judaism" where it says "Islam," etc., and then reread the thing. The result will be gut-turning to most of the world's citizens today. The contrary exercise might be even more instructive: take a Goebbel's rant, change all the references to Judaism to Islam and all the references to Germany to the US, and read it to a right-winger. When they passionately agree, tell them what they've passionately agreed with.

New target, old hate. It's the hate we need to be targetting, regardless of its target.

[coalition_unwilling]

22. Bravo! Hear, hear

[ladybugg33]

45. Same report card on Arabs and Muslims should be reported.

Do all people of color while they are at it. I am sure Israel would fail on the treatment of Arabs and Muslims.

[kysrsoze]

46. Isn't this not about Jews, per se, but the Israeli government?

Let's call a spade a spade. This is complete bullshit.

[Charles19]

48. Sure is

U.S. should look at how all people are treated. Guess with fascist pro-likud neo-con's running the gov. thinking that might happen is a little naive on my part.

[DulceDecorum]

2. H. R. 4230

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:H.R.4230.IH:

[bemildred]

4. What credibility? nt

[wurzel]

7. Miami Jews vote for Bush because of Israel. Hispanics because of Castro.

This has been reported on NPR. What about voting in the interest the country they actually are citizens of?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. That's Not Remotely True...

Jews are one of the most stalwart Democratic constituencies... The only ethnic or racial group that gives a greater percentage of their vote to the Democratic party is African Americans...

In fact Jews are the only ethnic group that votes Democratic regardless of their education and income....

In most groups as income goes up their likelihood of voting Democratic goes up....

[illuminaughty]

49. That's why it was easy to yell "fraud" in the last election

The Jewish vote for Buchanan in Florida set off alarm bells that something was wrong with the vote.

How about the world grading the U.S. on its treatment of...oh, say..
American Indians F
African Americans F
Muslims F
Japanese (what few we left on the planet after WWII) F
Italian F (largest public lynching in American history was in New Orleans in the late 1800's)

the list is endless

[foo_bar]

50. grading on a curve

I'd give 'Italian' at least a C+, since we didn't exterminate them by the tens of million.

[illuminaughty]

52. Sorry, I got carried away with the Italians

probably because I've gotten carried away by the Italians! My bias was showing.

But back to some rating
Haitians (a recent double whammy with the coup and hurricane)
Panamanians (that G.H.B. invasion to spare us from that evil drug and arms dealer Noriega. which so conveniently helped us test our new weapons to be used in the gulf.
Chileans and (let's just cut to the chase) anyone south of the border

Vietnamese F
Laotians (cluster bomb remnants still kill 100 each year) the gift that keeps on giving

[Larkspur]

8. Looks like I need to send this picture to my Congress critters

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. What Does The Killing Of Rachel Corrie Have To Do

With The State Department trying to protect Jewish minorities in other countries?


Should a Jew in France have to suffer for Sharon's policies?

[Larkspur]

18. Israel murdered an American citizen and got away with it

just like they got away with murdering our sailors on the USS Liberty. Israel also attempted to assasinate our ambassador to Lebanon, John Gunther Dean, in 1979 and to frame Arabs for it in order to try to get the US to come closer to Israel's side. http://www.wrmea.com/archives/May_2004/0405013.html

With friends like Israel, the United States doesn't need enemies in the Middle East.

This attempt by a pro-Israeli biased Congress is to clearly pressure and intimidated Europe to turn against the Arabs and Palestinians so that Israel can dominate the Middle East and either exterminate or forcibly expel the Palestinians from Palestine.

When Congress starts condemning Israel for its apartheid policies against the Palestinians, then I'll believe that this bill was designed to help Jewish minorities in foreign lands.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. I Still Don't Understand

Should some Jew in France get beat up because of Israeli policies?


By that reasoning the Holocaust was preemptive punishment....

[Larkspur]

25. The purpose of the bill is not to protect Jews in foreign lands

It's to intimidate Europe from opposing Israel's expansion policies.

And since when should the US be judge and jury over Europe and why should only Jews be selected as worthy of mention in this bill? What about Palestinians being murdered by Israel? Aren't Palestinians human beings?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. You Can Oppose Israeli Policies... You Just Can't Oppose Jews..

Maybe I lack the sophistication of some on this board but I see the difference between opposing Israeli policies and beating up some hapless Jew because he's wearing a skullcap...

[Larkspur]

36. Is it OK for Jews to beat up Pagans who reject their god?

Is it OK for Jews to support the murder of non-Jews who are working for justice against Israel's apartheid policies.

Jews who support AIPAC, the 4th most powerful lobby in Washington, support Israel's unjust policies and OK Jewish oppression and murder of non-Jewish people.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

39. If You Read All My Posts In This Thread

I'll oppose all forms of bigotry....

[Larkspur]

41. Then you should oppose this bill until all people and minorites

are put on it, and the United States Congress also commits to performing an inventory of it's own members bigotries against ALL people.

This bill is simply pandering to AIPAC. It's cheap election year politics.

[peacetalksforall]

14. How far back to they want the countries to go....why not go all the way

back...let's see how all the people of the countries of Europe treated the natives of North, Central, and South America and the Bahamas-Caribbean? How did all the countries treat the Japanese, the Armenians, and all the other mistreated peoples.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. I Am Troubled Where This Thread Is Going...

All forms of discrimimation be it based on race, religion, gender, sexual orientation should be vigorously opposed...

[Minstrel Boy]

16. Israel scores A+

Keep up the good work, Ariel!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. So If Ariel Sharon Is A Schmuck Some Jew In France Should Get His Ass Beat

Should some American living abroad get his ass beat cuz George Bush is an idiot...

[Minstrel Boy]

21. Would it really surprise you that I say no?

But this is a bad, bad policy, for Jews perhaps most of all.

How a nation treats its minorities is an important barometer of human rights, but singling out Jewish minorities sends the worst message about US priorities and Middle Eastern policy.

[coalition_unwilling]

26. All Americans must pay for the sins of George Bush

It's called karma and it will catch up with us, either sooner or later.

The ghosts of 2 million Vietnamese civilians killed by the U.S. during the Vietnam civil war have also created a huge karmic reckoning yet to be satisfied in full.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

27. I Voted For Al Gore...

I don't believe in collective punishment...


By that calculus most of the nations of the world from England to France to Russia to Zimbabwe would have much bad karma to burn...



I have a loose belief in karma; that the good and bad individuals do in life comes back to them...

[coalition_unwilling]

42. Are you paying U.S. income taxes? (I do)

If so, you're at least partly complicit. 'Voting for Gore' (I did, too) only gets you off the hook somewhat.

And, yes, most of the 'nations of the world' do have much bad karma to burn.

[tinnypriv]

51. Not really

A far-right group in Israel recently daubed "Jew-Boy" on a governmental office.

Those kind of comments are heard all the time.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

19. This is really a FRONT by Bush and the Likud Crime Family to.....

smear anyone who does not support the HARD RIGHT WING FACSIST LIKUD PARTY as being "Anti-Semetic". This is the same crap that we have in America with calling all Non-Bush Supporting Republicans "Un-American".

The Israeli Labor Party has it right! Let's be smart about this.

On Edit: Israelis have a right to support the Labor Party and its leaders over the Likud just as we Americans have a RIGHT to support Democrats over Republicans and it make both of us just as Patriotic to do so.

[mmonk]

20. My thoughts

The United States will not be given any credibility with the rest of the world with this or any other effort to protect Jews from ill treatment. The rest of the world will point to Abu Ghraib, secret prisons, deportation, etc. concerning US treatment of Muslims. Therefore, any good that could come from such a rating is diminished for they will say remove the lumber from your own eye.

[Mary0505]

29. Jesus begged God to forgive them.

Did you all not see the Passion? Jews can do anything they want. Anything! They will be forgiven.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

30. Anything (nt)

[MrPrax]

31. This is deranged...

Besides revealing just how much power AIPAC really has, what is one to make of this 'rating' system?

Provide the same leverage in diplomatic relations that, say, the 'drug' index provides or other 'morality' excuses the US publically announces on countries it negotiates with and then avoids their committment...

The State Department is right on one thing. It essentially ties the hands of 'career' diplomats to a questionable and arbitrary set of Executive politically motivated directives largely provided by a foreign constitutency.

More unaccountable power to POTUS as the 'usual' outfits feed their reports of 'anti-semtism' as they see in their home countries.

Now demonstrable propaganda like pregnant women being attacked in French subways or 'stretcher' bombs being placed into UN trucks can be used to sabatoge delicate diplomatic negotiations involving a whole host of issues.

Geez I thought the trend on the 'Right' these days was to AVOID linking human rights to foreign policy...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

32. I Think It's A Good Idea...

I don't like the idea of detaching a concern for human rights from our foreign policy...

I also think we should apply pressure to nations that don't provide equal rights for women and gays....

[MrPrax]

33. Yeah I think it is a good idea too...

Yeah I think it is a good idea too...

The best place for the US and Israel is to start to have a 'concern for' human rights', international law and treaties is by following them.

Seems a little disingenious to ignore one's own lack of human rights, but insist other's conform to some ideal that the 'host' nations themselves wouldn't bother with...

You seemed to have missed my point completely...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

40. I Didn't Miss Your Point....

I'll make two simple points...


Nations should practice what they preach...

and

all forms of bigotry are bad...

[arikara]

34. OK then, how about report cards on how all people are treated?

Black people, brown people, gays, women, children, Buddhists, Islamists, witches, the handicapped, prisoners in jail, stupid white men to name a few. How about a report card on how animals are treated? The environment?

It goes without saying that Jews should be treated decently. However singling them out as somehow needing more special treatment than everyone else like this only creates problems, controversy and yes... anger.

But then, maybe that is the goal?

[Larkspur]

35. Agree

Jews are not the only group that is persecuted, but they are the minority group with the 4th most powerful lobby in Washington DC.

[Jim Sagle]

37. Yee hah!

:beer:

[iamjoy]

47. Bingo....

By rating these countries on how they treat Jews...well it seems very close to hate crimes legislation, something the Republicans generally oppose. Why would they judge a country on how they treat Jews, but not Christians? Many Islamic nations persecute Christians. What about other "groups"? What if other nations did the same on us? How would we feel if the Netherlands gave us a bad rating because we failed to do enough to protect homosexuals' rights?

I don't like all the anti-Israel posts in a forum about anti-Semitism as it seems to enforce the falsehood that they are one and the same. I could go on about Israel and its relationship with its neighbors, but that is not the point of this thread.

[daleo]

38. Human rights are universal

Singling out one group over others for special concern is not a good idea. This action itself will play right into anti-Semitic stereotypes about chosen people, and thus will have a polarizing effect around the world and within the U.S., in my opinion.

[NJmaverick]

43. Well this will show the world

We are not Irsael's puppet!

[iamjoy]

44. What Pandering!

more to come...
(and I am Jewish)

[wordout]

53. same day

Report predicts deterioration in EU-Israel relations

EUOBSERVER / BRUSSELS - A confidential report from the Israeli Foreign Ministry has predicted relations with the European Union could further deteriorate in future, hitting Israel economically and diplomatically.

The report points to the "possibility of a deterioration in relations", one of the report's authors told the EUobserver today (Wednesday 13 October).

According to Israeli press reports, the document states that Israel and the EU find themselves on a collision course which would cause serious economic and diplomatic damage to the country.


The EU and Israel have been at loggerheads for months over the implementation of a Middle East peace plan and the construction of Israel's security barrier.

-------------

http://www.euobserver.com/?sid=9&aid=17516

[Kimber Scott]

54. How about US to rate it's allies and the world on treatment of it citizens

We are a human family. In a traditional family the best way to stir resentment among the members of that family is to show favoritism and bias to one, or against one, of its members.

This is kind of like hate crime legislation. Murder is murder. Murder is not worse, if it's against a certian category of person. Discrimination is discrimination. Discrimination is not worse if it's against a Jew.

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

55. I wonder if Saudi Arabia will get a pass ... n/t

[Jacobin]

56. OMG

:wtf:


Unfuckingbelievable. Overt racism of the rankest sort. Murder a couple of thousand Arabs? kewl!!!! Say nasty things about Jews? Yer Outta here!!!!

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

57. Humanity should rate the US on Indians... how about that?

How would we look then?

[Debbi801]

58. As a Jewish American, I am ashamed that a bill like this could pass (m)

Hi. I've been lurking for a month or so and never saw the reason to post before now. I'm not good at debating, but I feel very strongly about this. I cannot believe that a law like this would even be proposed.

Here in this country, hate crimes are committed probably every day against someone or group due to their religion, race, ideals, etc. Just last week, a group of Jewish Cemeteries were vandalized here in MD. I've heard of Muslims being persecuted for no viable reason (Cat Stevens, anyone?), crosses get burned on lawns, etc. It is sick and it shouldn't happen. But it does, right here.

Is someone holding this government accountable? No. Has anyone held Sharon accountable for the acts of terror he's committed? Not really. Why should other countries be held accountable for what a few individuals do? Unless the government is supporting the acts of racism, how can they be held accountable? And, why should all other religions, races, and nationalities be ignored?

It just doesn't make sense to me.

Debbi