Kerry Lesbian Remark Angers Cheney (Dick not Lynne)

[wicket]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=536&ncid=536&e=10&u=/ap/20041014/ap_on_el_pr/debate_lynne_cheney

Vice President Dick Cheney (news - web sites) called himself a "pretty angry father" Thursday as he denounced Sen. John Kerry for mentioning his gay daughter during a debate with President Bush.

Cheney and his wife, Lynne, have two daughters. Mary Cheney is openly gay and an official in the Bush-Cheney campaign. The vice president has spoken at length about his daughter's sexuality and his view of gay relationships, even disagreeing with the president about the need for a constitutional amendment prohibiting same-sex marriages.

Asked Wednesday night by debate moderator Bob Schieffer whether homosexuality is a choice, Kerry said: "We're all God's children, Bob, and I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's being who she was. She's being who she was born as. I think if you talk to anybody, it's not a choice."

Cheney told supporters at a rally in Fort Myers, "You saw a man who will do and say anything to get elected, and I am not just speaking as a father here, although I am a pretty angry father."

[Ducks In A Row]

1. Dick allowed Keyes attack on Mary to go unanswered

Dick is a hypocrite and his followers have openly hated gays, including Mary.

[Ruby Romaine]

good point

kick!

[goodboy]

2. great point.

[Skarbrowe]

12. Cheney himself put his daughter into a political talking point.

Cheney brought up his daughter's Lesbianism in one his town hall rallys. She also is a major player in his campaign. I serioulsy don't think John Edwards or John Kerry would have ever mentioned her name in public if Cheney hadn't done it first to try to give some kind of "explanation" for her and his love for her to his base. If Mary Cheney was living a quiet private life somewhere trying to stay out of the political view, I would have hated having her name used for the reasons both sides are using it. But, Papa Cheney and her political activity opened up this door.

Skarbrowe

[krkaufman]

16. Check out this July 31 USA Today article

(posted to DU earlier by another DUer)

http://www.usatoday.com/news/conv/037.htm

Also, the party's expected embrace of former defense secretary Dick Cheney's openly lesbian daughter could help convince voters that Bush's "compassionate conservatism" is genuine.

The daughters of Bush's vice presidential pick arrived here with their parents Sunday. A close friend said that Mary Cheney, 31, will have a role beyond the convention and will be constantly at her father's side during campaign trips.

[Pirate Smile]

19. She isn't private about it. Her old job was all about her being gay.

Look at this Salon article:
http://dir.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/08/01/mary/index.html

snip-

Nationally, many gay leaders were alarmed by Lynne Cheney's remarks. The distaste implied by her use of the term "such a thing" to describe her daughter Mary's sexuality didn't come across as ringing acceptance. And some see it as an attempt to force Mary Cheney -- who has in fact publicly "declared" herself a lesbian, and has worked as the gay and lesbian corporate relations manager for Coors Brewing Co. -- back into the closet, at least on the campaign trail.

-snip-

Gay leaders wasted no time blasting Lynne Cheney's remarks to Roberts. "They were horrible," said Human Rights Campaign spokesman David Smith. "She said she is proud of both her daughters, but there was definitely a sense this was one aspect of who her daughter is that she was not proud of. That came through loud and clear."

The fact that is lesbian is not a private matter," he continued. "It was part of her job. She reached out to the gay and lesbian community for a major U.S. corporation. She was on the cutting edge of changing how a corporation reaches out to gay and lesbian customers."

Cheney herself told a lesbian magazine that she went to work for Coors "because I knew several other lesbians who were very happy here." Friends and colleagues say she has declared her sexuality in public on many occasions.

Denver colleagues laughed at the assertion that Mary has never "declared" her sexuality. "Of course she did," said Jim McNulty, co-founder of the organization that puts on the popular Aspen Gay Ski Week, which Coors has supported throughout Mary Cheney's tenure. "Did she tell me she was a lesbian? She said, 'This is my life partner.' That's exactly how she put it. They kissed and hugged, which is wonderful."

"It's been widely known for a long time that she's gay and not shy about it," says Elizabeth Birch, HRC executive director, "

[joeunderdog]

88. Shouldn't he be mad at the President?

Isn't he the one trying to oppress his daughter? If he was trying to protect his daughter, then he should be standing up for her rights as an equal?

Nah, that wouldn't be hypocritical enough.

[TwentyFive]

75. I forgot about old Krazy Keyes.....

What kind of parents let comments like that slide by?

Of course, Alan Keyes speaks for a huge number of republicans....so maybe Dick and Lynne didn't want to offend their base?

[Carla in Ca]

130. And don't forget...

Not a word of outrage over the anti-gay/bible burning ad in Arkansas, either.

New DNC ad:
<http://www.democrats.org/notfunny/index.html>

[rman]

134. while Kerry did in fact not attack Cheney's daughter

Cheney seems to be very upset about the fact that Kerry *mentioned* Mary.

"a man who will do and say anything to get elected"

My god, what did he say? he mentioned your daughter, isn't that most horryfing thing ever?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

140. Bottom line: Cheney think gay sons and daughters are UNMENTIONABLE! (nt)

[sniffa]

3. oh that's just precious

more projection.

[King Coal]

4. Kerry will do anything to get elected. Including agreeing with Cheney!

[bif]

9. That got me too!

He'll do anything to get elected? Hmm...like spread shitty rumors about John McCain in 2000? Calling Max Clelland a traitor? What a bunch of assholes.

[Kikosexy2]

13. Although..

Kerry didn't make any disparaging remarks about Mary--actually Kerry was very classy. Kerry can respond back sincerely but point out--repeat Cheney's remarks about gay marriage and Mary and throw it right back at his face. Get ready for the spins on this one.

[cubster]

102. harboring homophobic thoughts of homosexuality and lesbianism

please permit me to invoke a french label on gwb, president sac de douche, or as they say in down home rural texas, president douche bag. gwb chose not to be gay and wants to amend the constitution to prohibit dick's daughter from settling down with the dyke she loves til death do they part. dick chose not be gay, loves his daughter very very much, but supports gwb solidly in his effort to block his little girl's attempts to tie the knot. ke04 both chose not to be gay, oppose the vp's darling, precious pumpkin from entering into holy matrimony and become one flesh in the eyes of god, and are against a constitutional amendment. they have all seen the light on this issue through prayer and guidance from god.

i know this about the debates:

kerry showed up as the same person all three times. confident, steady, knowledgeable, presidential.

gwb came to debate #1 as a sniveling, whiney, clueless, twitchy, flickery bozo who seemed to think his job was way hard and much too much work.

at debate #2 he appears as a shrill, screechy, angry, clueless bozo. consensus has it that he was much improved.

debate #3. gwb has good posture, square shoulders, unscowly, and prepared to rumble. i am sure that i saw a collection of spit foam in the corner of his mouth.

sprint to the finish line.

OMG WMD WTF

thank you for your time,

cubby (the cubster)

[David__77]

5. Calling her a "selfish hedonist" is A-OK though, Dickie?

These people are so transparent in their cynical straddling of bigotry and "moderation."

[patdem]

6. What if Cheney's daughter were crippled and bush* was voting for

a constitutional amendment against the American's with Disabilities Act? Would Cheney be equally upset? Would Lynn be angry that Kerry brought up that the VP's daughter was crippled?

I think this is proof that these people are desperate! I really do not think they are ashamed of their daughter-they are only ashamed that their daughter is someone their 'base' does not want to include in their party!!!

[Sophree]

18. The simple fact that this is what they're focussing on

Should tell ALL of us just how desperate they really are.

Not that we should be complacent!

But really, this is pathetic. Especially when * lied about saying that he didn't really care where bin Laden was and didn't spend much time thinking about him. Because we all know that is something Americans don't care about, either.

Kerry talking about Dick's gay daughter- now that's what's REALLY important!!! :eyes:

[Kierkegaard]

85. Desperation is the order of the day.

Any little thing they can get their steely claws into will be an issue between now and November 2. They have no other hope at this point but to throw darts and hope they hit a bullseye.

[bushisanidiot]

144. Oh, I think they are ashamed of her. Lynn Cheney especially is in

major denial. She rant and raved at Cokie Roberts in 2000 for bringing up Mary's sexual orientation and claimed that Mary never said she was gay.

Her behavior is very much like my mother's was when I came out to her. She would never acknowledge that I was gay or that my partner was ever anything more than "a friend" who lived with me. Lynn Cheney does NOT like being reminded that her daughter is gay, especially when the reminder is in public and on national television.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

7. But you'll back a president who wants to support unequal rights for your

daughter? Cheney...it's an outrage that Kerry cares more abot your daughter's happiness than you and your bigoted party.

BTW,pandering to religious bigots is saying ANYTHING to get elected.

[Lin]

8. "say & do anything"-he'd know. Is Dick gonna declare "war on MA.now?eom

[denverbill]

10. Hey Dickless. Your party is the ones pandering to anti-gay bigots.

If you don't want your daughter's sexuality to be an issue, quit pandering to the religious right on the gay marriage issue.

Nobody mentioned her sexuality in the debates 4 years ago, because gay marriage wasn't a campaign issue then.

[GinaMaria]

22. Not quite

Cheney himself mentioned his daughter's sexual orientation in the 2000 Veep debates.

[The Magistrate]

11. The Problem With This Line By Dick Is Simple, Ma'am

Cheney is a leading stalwart of the Republican Party. That Party seeks to make political hay by assaulting homosexuals, and Cheney is perfectly willing to profit by and assist in the doing. In doing so, he is assaulting his own child, and revealing himself not just to be a hypocrite, but to be the worst imaginable father, and farthest thing imaginable from a real man. It is his duty, as a father and as a man, to protect his children, and if he were even minimally competent as a father and a man, he would spend a great deal of time denouncing the Republican Party's assault on his own child's liberty and happiness. Instead, he lends it countenance and profits by it: in short, his relation to his daughter is not that of a father but of a pimp, and it is quite fair to say he is more than willing to pimp out his own children for a few votes, because that puts money in his own and his friends' pockets. A damned odd way to vindicate one's attachment to family values, in my view, but there you are....

"Republicanism is a character flaw."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[GreenArrow]

33. Great post sir!

Really hits the nail on the head.

[cliss]

47. I agree. Great post.

Kerry is not being cruel by bringing this up. Notice, John Edwards pointed it out at the VP debate. Edwards brought it up. Cheney basically said, "no comment".

Kerry brought it up in the last debate. These two men are OBVIOUSLY making a point here. What is it?

That Cheney wants to double-dip on both sides of the fence. The Dems are just pointing that out.

:smoke:**

[Sterling]

138. Yes great post

I still think you suck but you write very well,lol. I am glad were on the same side.

[The Magistrate]

148. Well, Mr. Sterling

Your diplomatic skills still could use a little polish, but it is always a pleasure for me to find a point of agreement with persons whose views ae more generally opposed to mine. Doubtless we will revert to pistols at twenty paces on some other questions in future....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[Ezlivin]

14. Dick stirred by lebian remark

Over a thousand US military deaths can't get the man worked up, but mention the truth and watch out!

Someone is going to have to punch this Dick down, I see.

[Kimber Scott]

15. Is he ashamed of her, or what?

She's gay. Get over it.

[Gregorian]

17. It's something he can't deny. Boo hoo.

The criminals can blow people into pieces, but THIS offends them. There is a sickness in America. We need to admit that we are sick. Only then can Dick and George, and the rest of us who are suffering under them, can begin the long road to recovery.

Neocons Anonymous.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bagnana]

23. why? Her lesbianism is no secret.

Kerry was pointing out that people of all stripes (and political parties) are gay and that they are just living their lives. To call it a "cheap shot" just shows how fucking miserable these people are re: their "dirty little secrets." Yes, she is gay. What is wrong with that? It's like mentioning someone by name who is old and worries about medicare and social security. What, that person is going to be mad about being called old? I suppose if you thought being old was a sick thing then it might be cause for being pissed. Likewise, identifying Mary as a gay woman is only cause for anger if you think that being gay is a perjorative.

[demoman123]

25. Duh. There are lots of people who didn't know that she is a lesbian.

Now they do! :) And BTW, in case you didn't know, not everyone out there in Bush country thinks lesbianism is okay. If there is one undecided person in a swing state who (1) did not know that she was a lesbian, and (2) does not like lesbianism, then Mr. Kerry might pick up that vote. If there are two such people, then he might pick up two votes. Etc.

[GinaMaria]

26. Cheney talked about it in the 2K Veep debate

Cheney spoke about his daughter Mary during that debate. I believe the question was about gay marriage.

And BTW, in case you didn't know, not everyone out there in America thinks Bush Country is okay.

[The Magistrate]

28. Nonesense, Sir

Cheney himself made considerable play with the matter in the 2000 election; it was mentioned prominently in the debate between Sen. Edwards and Cheney recently.

If, in this election during which the Republicans are trying to whip up anti-homosexual sentiment to rally their base of fundamentalist bigots, it should prove inconvenient for Cheney that he raised a lesbian daughter and has not disowned her and driven her out of his family like a good and righteous Christian, then that is his own look-out. Those who seek to make political profit off the personal affairs of fellow citizens cannot rightly complain when the favor is returned to their own personal affairs.

"Republicanism is a character flaw."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[demoman123]

30. "Nonesense"? Ah! "Nonsense."

Well, it doesn't hurt to underscore the lesbian angle, now does it? Like Bob Dole calling himself "Bob Dole" all the time.

Tell me this: why ELSE would Kerry bring it up?

[The Magistrate]

34. In Common With Mr. Twain, Sir

"I have little respect for a man so limited he can spell a word just one way."

My question to you, Sir, is why does it bother you that something likely to prove more inconvenient to the enemy than otherwise was brought up by our candidate? Suppressing some portion of the enemy's vote by reminding them of the degenerate whelped by their champion strikes me as a good thing....

"Republicanism is a character flaw."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[demoman123]

Oooo! I hope no one reads your post. You are gonna get it!

Don't anyone blame me! I didn't say it! I am completely innocent! I never say bad stuff about gay people. Not even accidentally.

[The Magistrate]

36. You Have, Sir, A Painfully Obvious Cast Of Mind....

"It is a mistake to divide people into good and bad. People are either charming or tedious."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[Nevernose]

93. Ah, the eminently quotable Oscar Wilde

Hats off, sir -- your taste in dramatists is nonpareil.

[GinaMaria]

35. Why? To accomplish the same goal as every other answer

in the debate: To underscore the difference between himself and bush. *'s own Veep has a gay daughter and he panders to the haters in this country. His own veep. You know * has met Mary. How could he look at his friend's daughter and continue to support the base he supports? Kerry unmasked the 'compassionate conservative' as a fraud. That's what he was supposed to do last night. He did that on many issues.

What exactly is your problem with this? You haven't made that clear. Let's address what's really bothering you.

[demoman123]

49. My answer is much simpler than yours.

Ockham's razor. Kerry is covertly pandering to the anti-gay vote. No. I am not a freeper. But this is obviously what he is doing.

[GinaMaria]

57. You'll have to explain that one to me

How in the world, could Kerry get the anti-gay vote? He has a much more compassionate stance on the issue. He clearly said he believed homosexuality was not a choice. * copped out and just said he didn't know. He doesn't know when life begins either but that doesn't stop him from making statements about abortion.

Think about the type of person who is a homophobe. Are they liberal on all issues except that one? Hardly. People with deep seeded fear have a plethora of problems. These are not the type of people who will vote for Kerry. I would like to hear your reasoning for this. My initial reaction is that you are not being rational about this and something else is going on for you about this non-issue, but I will give you a fair chance. State your case.

I think Kerry was trying to change one person's mind about the issue last night and that one person was *. Many people have gay or lesbian family members. They are human beings who are loved. * needed reminding of that last night.

[The Magistrate]

60. What He Might Gain, Ma'am

Is some suppression of the vote among such wretches for the Republican ticket. Just as among us there are some people who have to hold their nose to vote for Sens. Kerry and Edwards, there may well be some among the enemy troubled mightily by this flaw in Cheney's family values....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[GinaMaria]

65. We are agreed, however homophobics deciding not to vote

is way different from this guy's theory that Kerry will get the anti-gay vote. It's a mighty leap of logic. However Alan Keyes used Mary Cheney in an interview recently. No one from the Cheney family has stood up to him publicly about his comments. Was he pandering to the anti-gay vote?

John Edwards talked about Mary at the Veep debate and Cheney thanked him for his kind words about his family and daughter. What vote was that pandering to? Cheney himself talked about Mary's sexual orientation at the veep debates in 2K. What voter group was he pandering to? Seems to me this poster Demoman could cite relavant examples of how these things effect the anti-gay vote.

If voting in this election is a 'moral' crisis for homophobes then they can sit out. No one is forced to vote. That is a choice. ;-)

PS
I've really enjoyed your posts in this thread.

[The Magistrate]

70. Thank You, Ma'am

It is a pleasure to see you about the place again.

Their failure to denounce Keyes throws into even starker relief the Cheneys' basic hypocrisy in this matter. Keyes deliberately insulted and demeaned, and yet the parents do not leap to defend? On some unspoken level, they must agree with the charges leveled by Keyes, and they are certainly aware that Keyes speaks what all "base" Republicans believe: who else but such delusional trash is going to vote for that snake, after all?

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[GinaMaria]

136. Pleasure to be back, Sir

and always a pleasure to see you and read your posts.


Check out the tombstone for our recently departed disruptor

[demoman123]

61. Actually I don't have to.

But I will make it real simple. Kerry is a politician. He'll pander for any votes he can get, including the anti gay vote. That's what he was doing, in a very sneaky way.

It's not my favorite moment in the life of John Kerry.

[GinaMaria]

68. How old are you?

No you don't have to explain it. And thus far you've failed to. It is simple, you have made a mighty leap of logic. There is no correlation between what JFK said last night and the number of homophobe votes he'll get. Stating this over and over doesn't make it true.

If your stance had been that homophobic voters might not vote, then that seems more realistic. But that is not your position. Your position seems to be that JFK while being against a Constitutional Ammendment to ban gay marriage would actually get the anti-gay vote. State your reasoning for this assumption if you would like to continue an adult conversation on the topic. Otherwise, give it up man. The only one you are convincing is yourself.

[demoman123]

78. How is that relevant?

I have explained my reasons already. The distinction between getting the anti gay vote and discouraging the anti gay vote from voting for Dubya is a distinction without a difference.

Either way Kerry was pandering to the anti-gay vote, in a very sneaky way. I believe you have already conceded this point in conversation with someone else.

[GinaMaria]

83. Huh? you have not proved your point

The difference is grand and eye opening. */cheney supporters who are homophobic have to look within themselves and ask some serious questions. I don't believe they will sit this one out. They will hold their noses and vote. If some do sit out, it's their choice. That's not pandering. Pandering is trying to win the votes for yourself as you claim JFK's statement will do.

You have offered nothing but a simple conclustion (of what you have yet to post). Please provide your reasoning. How did you arrive at this conclusion? What have you seen in the past that shows comments like JFK's last night wins 'anti-gay' votes, as you have claimed. Please provide something that backs your claim or be labeled a disrupter.

[demoman123]

91. Are you threatening me?

"...or be labeled a disrupter...."

[GinaMaria]

92. end of conversation disruptoer

You've had ample opportunity to state the reasoning behind your statement. Instead you've used this thread to state your disapproval of JFK without anything to back it up.

C'ya

[demoman123]

96. Giving up? Good.

Threatening people is not a valid or morally acceptable method of argumentation.

[The Magistrate]

98. Sometimes, Sir

Matters come to a point where a stout stick across the swine's snout is about all that there is left to carry the point....

"If a man will continue to insist that two and two do not make four, I know of nothing in the power of argument that can stop up his mouth."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[demoman123]

99. I'm not clear about just whom you are calling a swine here.

But name-calling is as invalid and unethical as threatening--regardless of which one of us you are sticking with that epithet.

[The Magistrate]

101. That Is True, Sir: You Are Not Clear

"Remember that two wrongs do not make a right, but three do."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[demoman123]

103. Now you have devolved into nonsense.

And you can skip the phony "Sir" stuff.

[The Magistrate]

106. Are We Not Men? We Are Devo!

Wear it in good health, Sir. You do not really provide much sport....

"Throw back the little ones, and pan fry the big ones; use tact, boys, and reason, and gently squeeze them...."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[Swamp Rat]

123. I love Devo!

I saw them in 1981 when they came to New Orleans.

[TankLV]

121. Actually, mockery of and scorn for YOU is quite appropriate.

nt

[The Magistrate]

104. Ah, The Old 'Edit After Replied To' Dodge....

And you seemed like such a swell and moral fella all this time....

"You talkin' ta me? You talkin' ta ME!?!"

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[demoman123]

107. Well, who are you calling a swine?

And I did not "edit after replied to."

[The Magistrate]

108. It Is Always You, Is It Not?

You, you, you...to hear you tell it, Sir, the world revolves around you: you are the Sun and we all mere moons and planet staring to the center that is you....

"The mind wobbles...."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[demoman123]

110. Complete nonsense. You should go back to name-calling

At least the names have a meaning.

[The Magistrate]

112. You Wound Me, Sir

It will be damned hard to come back from that....

Once the Sage wrote: "Ruling the country is like cooking a small fish."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[TankLV]

120. You've already proved beyond a doubt that you're a disruptor.

And a bad one at that.

You started with a post criticizing Kerry for his remarks about Cheney's daughter, which were SUPPORTIVE, by the way.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

145. Going... going... GONE!

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

142. What are you smoking?

Kerry was DEFENDING gay people. His answer was that it's not a choice, and people are what they are and we are all God's children.

In addition to that, he took the opportunity to tweak a sore spot on Cheney's dark mind.

Please explain to us how that's pandering to anti-gay vote.

Ah, and before I forget:

[KayLaw]

43. Why bring it up?

I don't believe he brought the subject up, but he did strive to put a human face on the issue at hand. The fact that Mary is a lesbian in in no way a secret and I think he illustrated that we all know gay people - they are everywhere, deserve decent treatment, and are sometimes family members.

All this outrage is foolishness and mendacious.

[aquart]

41. So what? Should she be ashamed? IT WAS NOT A SECRET.

Obviously, YOU think this is something shameful and a stain upon the Cheney family, as they do.

But Mary was hired by Coors to coordinate gay and Lesbian relations BECAUSE she is an out Lesbian.

[demoman123]

53. So what? I don't have a problem with lesbianism. But some voters do.

That's why Kerry brought it up. Just in case someone didn't know about it.

[The Magistrate]

55. The Question Is, Sir

Do you have a problem with such wretches refraining from casting a vote for the Republican ticket this year?

"Politics ain't bean-bag."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[demoman123]

66. I think it's kinda cheesy.

Maybe anything goes in politics, but there ought to be some moral limits, don't you think? I mean, pandering to the "wretch" vote, under cover of complimenting the family of someone on the opposing ticket.... Yuk.

Not Kerry's finest moment.

[The Magistrate]

73. Moral Limits, Sir?

Surely you jest....

There may be a few legal ones....

"Say cheese!"

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[demoman123]

80. LOL! n/t

[callous taoboy]

48. What a bunch of B.S., demoman.

It's all about votes to you???? So the Mepublicans should endorse the "God hates fags" group to up their vote ante? I say that the folks who don't get the gay thing will go the way of the folks who didn't get the equal rights thing, or the inter-racial marriage thing.
They faded away or joined up with a skinhead organization.

[demoman123]

51. I don't know what you are talking about.

It's not all about votes to me. But it is all about votes to Kerry. He is a POLITICIAN. And yes, I am going to vote for him.

[The Magistrate]

56. As A Point Of Curiousity, Sir

You are aware elections typically are won by the candidate who gets the most votes?

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[callous taoboy]

45. Spot on, Bagnana.

Cheap shot it was not. It's public knowledge that Mary Cheney is gay, and to not bring her up in a debate (w/ people who are playing games with people's rights) would just be stupid. Calling it a "cheap shot" is, itself, a cheap shot.

[JoFerret]

97. We ALL know Dickie is heterosexual, right?

so what is the big deal? Hey! This spikes their wedge issue. I have no problem with Mary Cheney being gay. I have no problem with Jenna and Barb as not gay (IF that is true...who knows? As Kerry so maturely indicated - sexual identity is a fluid matter.)

[Amigust]

129. "Dickie is heterosexual, right"

Randi Rhodes doesn't think so.

[goclark]

149. What does Randi think GW is?

When I heard Kerry say it, I immediately though of GW.

Anyone with google skills can do a search for his dear friend Victor Ashe.

Kerry has been in Washington for a long time.
He knows the dirt.

Remember his statement about "wives of men,,,," that made me think of GW and all of the odd stuff that he has said to men.

It was compelling what he said to Barney Frank about his partner.
Remember what he said to the handsome Assistant of a statesman.
He is fascinated by men and can not resist saying things to them that
reflect a fascination.

Kerry was at Yale. He knows the dirt from there too.
Where is that Victor Ashe?

I applaud Kerry for saying, with compassion,what most know already. Cheney's daughter is gay. She did not choose to be gay.
She was born that way and she should be proud of who she is today. Her parents should be proud of her too.

They are not proud of her. They would stand up for her and they did not. Instead they put the focus on Kerry. The focus belongs on the right wing bigots.

[aquart]

40. Not even close. And certainly not pandering to anti-Lesbians.

I actually cheered when Kerry said it wasn't choice, that Mary was just being what she is.

It's the first time I've heard a member of government admit it.

I was thrilled.

[callous taoboy]

46. Yes, aquart

and I had the immediate impression that Kerry admires Mary Cheney.

[demoman123]

52. Thrilled? Well, whatever gets you off.

I was non-plussed. Cuz it's obvious to me what he was doing.

[Puglover]

59. Speaking as a gay man Demoman...

your point is absurd. I honestly can't figure why you're trying to push it. Fundamentalist folks who are firmly in Bushs camp are yes mostly rabidly homophobic. To assume that John Kerry thinks they are going to vote for a party that is clearly more sympathetic to gays then the Repukes because the VP daughter is gay is ridiculous logic. Even the Freepers aren't as stupid as you seem to think they are.
Kerrys comment was compassionate. If it happens to illustrate the Repukes hypocrisy on the issue....well good.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Magistrate]

64. Is That So, Sir?

In future, perhaps, those forum members who are gay should just check with you first to be told what their comments on such a matter ought to be?

"Kill one, warn one hundred."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[demoman123]

67. Um hm.

Apparently some of them don't know when they should get mad! :)

[Puglover]

76. Now on top of everything else

I don't know when I should be outraged. Wow, who knew that you had as much of an inside on me as you do on Sen. Kerry? Seriously dude, have another cocktail.

[demoman123]

81. See? You are getting angry. That's a good start!

Now you just need to find the right target.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

77. Apparently, you don't understand that you don't speak for anyone...

...but yourself on this forum.

What is it you don't understand about that very basic concept?

[demoman123]

82. Right. I only speak the truth.

On this issue, anyway.

[Puglover]

86. Media....

my Daddy always used to say "Only a moron argues with a horses ass" He was a smart man.
:-)

[TankLV]

122. Amen!

D'man speaking for ME - a gay person!

D'man DOESN'T speak for anyone but himself - he's delusional - and aparently lost.

We have all reached the same conclusion:

D'man is clueless - and D'man is most aparently lost and would be a lot more comfortable on "another" forum!

The only one I'M outraged at is YOU D'man and you load of crap you're trying unsuccessfully to peddle.

Now go peddle your crap somplace else.

You are NOT welcome here.

[Name removed]

117. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

143. "I honestly can't figure why you're trying to push it."

You can't? Well, I can.

He's trying to get people NOT to vote for John Kerry. And for that, he is misrepresenting his words to make them mean the EXACT OPPOSITE of what he said.

Pretty clear to me.

[sonicx]

58. fuck the anti-gay voters

they need to live in the real world

[Media_Lies_Daily]

72. Okay...

...you're a lying freeper who doesn't give a shit, and wouldn't know a cheap shot if it hit him in the back of the head.

How's that?

Just in case you misunderstood, you don't have a clue about what's going on, do you?

[harpo]

115. it was good bait that worked...cheney bit hook, line, & sinker

[TankLV]

118. So let me get this "straight".

Alan Keyes condemns her for being an immoral soddomite, akin to a murderer, pedophile, etc. - and - SILENCE from the fucking Cheney's.

Pat Robertson does the same thing - and - SILENCE from the fucking Cheney's.

Lots of other "moral" "proper" "religious" fucking hypocrit repukes all do the same thing - and - SILENCE from the fucking Cheney's.

But

Kerry actually praises her and sympathises with her AND THEY FUCKING GO BEZERK? And YOU have a problem with this?

Just what the fuck is wrong with you?

And you wonder why ANYONE would suspect your true leanings and compare you to the worst of humanity?

[Carla in Ca]

131. It wasn't a cheap shot, it was a compliment.

Read the text. He was INCLUDING her when he said "We are all God's children". He was trying to get * to see it that way, too.
If they are truly proud of their daughter, it is * they should be angry at, not Kerry. * is the one pushing the 'hate amendment', not Kerry.
Your last sentence doesn't make sense. Anti-lesbian voters don't support Kerry.

[jackieforthedems]

21. Cheney Apparently Has A Hard Time

accepting the truth about his daughter and is embarassed by her.

[GinaMaria]

24. They're worried about their base not voting

Kerry's compassionate statement reminds Cheney's base that if they vote for */cheney they are voting for something they hate. Homophobes now have a tough choice to make... one of the options is not to vote so as not to condone the behavior that they believe is a choice. Cheney is worried that some of their base won't vote. He's attempting to manipulate their fear of gay people into outrage that Kerry talked about his daughter. If he can keep stoking the flames of rage, they may forget that they hate homosexuals more than they hate John Kerry.

[davidinalameda]

27. I think it was clever of him to use it

it reminds sane Republicans (both of them) that Bush is the most anti-gay president in history

[Zenaholic]

29. Anybody remember what Dick Santorum said about gays?

And didn't * call him a patriot or something?

[The Magistrate]

32. The Fellow Whose Name Means Post-Anal Coital Ooze

Said that marriage between gays was a homeland security issue, because there was nothing so threatening to the future of the country as that possibility....

That is exactly the sort of bigot Cheney is accustomeed to pimp out his daughter to curry favor with....

"Republicanism is a character flaw."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[TaleWgnDg]

31. This is so damn typical . . . so damn typical . . .

This is what happens when you say something but do the opposite.

GWBush and the Republican Platform bash gays.

No matter what or how Cheney, his wife or GWBush try to dance around the issue. It's there. Cheney and his wife are caught saying one thing one year, another the following year about their lesbian daughter. HIS OWN DAUGHTER!

If you kiss-up to radical extremists for their votes but have that very entity in your own home that causes those radical extremists to shudder, then what?

Double-speak. And more double-speak. Circles. Dances. And more stupidity. And now Cheney is trying to glue this debacle onto John F. Kerry???????????? Unreal.


. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . Dumbya and Company Dance Around Issues

[Cocoa]

37. why is he angry?

again, here's what Kerry said:

"We're all God's children, Bob, and I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's being who she was. She's being who she was born as. I think if you talk to anybody, it's not a choice."

What is there to be angry about?

[Catfight]

38. I'm ashamed of both Bush/Cheney beyond repair! n/t

[wishlist]

39. They're mad because it makes it harder for them to shore up their base

Kerry succeeded in revealing their phoniness on two wedge issues last night that the Bush crowd has been shamelessly exploiting - abortion and homosexuality. Plus he gave a fantastic answer about extending the assault weapons ban that law enforcement supported.

[truthisfreedom]

42. good. because that points out that they are ANGRY WINGERS.

be what you are, cheney. an ANGRY, UNHINGED WINGER.

[Stephanie]

44. ''Lynne and I have a gay daughter, so it's an issue our family is very...

familiar with," Cheney told an audience that included his daughter.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/bush/articles/2004/08/25/cheney_says_he_bush_at_odds_over_same_sex_marriage/
Cheney says he, Bush, at odds over same-sex marriage
Wants issue left up to each state rather than a new amendment
By Todd Dvorak, Associated Press | August 25, 2004



DAVENPORT, Iowa -- Vice President Dick Cheney, whose daughter Mary is a lesbian, drew criticism from a foe of gay marriage yesterday after he distanced himself from President Bush's call for a constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage.

At a campaign rally in this Mississippi River town, Cheney spoke supportively about gay relationships when asked about his stand on gay marriage.

<snip>

The Cheneys have two daughters, both of whom are working on the campaign. Mary Cheney is director of vice presidential operations for the Bush-Cheney re-election campaign.

She held a public role as her father's assistant in the 2000 campaign and helped the GOP recruit gay voters during the 2002 midterm elections.

''Lynne and I have a gay daughter, so it's an issue our family is very familiar with," Cheney told an audience that included his daughter.

''With respect to the question of relationships, my general view is freedom means freedom for everyone . . . People ought to be free to enter into any kind of relationship they want to.

[Politicub]

50. Me-ouch

The truth hurts, don't it, Dick?

Don't be so ashamed of your daughter.

[KansDem]

54. Hey, Dick! "Go f*ck yourself!" (eom)

[harpo]

116. that's what I'm talkin about...

[Democat]

63. Biased headline says "anger" as fact instead of saying "says he is angry"

Notice how the media accepts that Cheney is angry as a fact, rather than saying that Cheney claims he is angry.

When Kerry says things he just "claims" or "says" but when Cheney or Bush say something, it's a fact.

Cheney is just claiming to be angry, there is no way to prove that he is angry, so it's not a fact and the media should not be reporting it as a fact. They would not give the same favors to Kerry.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

69. Was Big Dick angry when Edwards basically did the same thing?

[TexasBushwhacker]

105. No, in fact he thanked him for his kind words

That's why I don't understand EITHER of the Cheney parents outbursts except that it's just POLITICS AS USUAL.

[pinniped]

71. I hope that monster gets more angry.

Pretty sick to think of that creep as a father.

As usual, these pieces of shit accuse others of what they know all to well:

------"You saw a man who will do and say anything to get elected------

It's still pretty sad that his stupid wife has to travel with the monster on the campaign trail. She's a monster too, so it balances out. How is a monster supposed to put a human face on another monster?

[young_at_heart]

74. Don't get Cheney angry.....you know what he'll say

Lots of people are scared of his anger and power. I can't stand the way he talks out of the side of his mouth.

[pelagius]

79. If Mary Cheney herself expresses "outrage", I'll listen...

...but Mom, Dad, freepers, and media types with space to fill need to just shut up now.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

84. It was outrageous of Kerry

to expose their hypocrisy! ;-)

Kerry was nothing but class last night...calling Dumbyass a "good father" and making a point of presenting his beliefs without taking personal potshots at the shrub.

He didn't say anything negative about Mary, in fact he was more supportive than her parents ever have been.

[goforit]

87. Poor widdle Cheney is in such a tizzy!!!....He's an AXE Murderer for

heaven's sake!!!

And he is whining that Kerry would honor his daughter???

[Piperay]

89. What does Mary have to say on the matter??

Apparently her parents know their base and know this will hurt their side, they don't really care about their daugher's 'honor' (or whatever they would call it, what they claim Kerry defamed).

[Book Lover]

90. Then I imagine that you're going to release her from your campaign

seeing as how these "vicious attacks" have hurt little Mary's feelings so. Poor, poor Mary Cheney. Never with a care as to her retirement, or her health care, or her safety (well, as long as the taxpayer pays for her bodyguards). It must be *so* tough to be Mary.

[skordane]

94. Hey Cheney's - Go Lick Yourselves

[misterphelps]

109. HAHAAAAHAAAAA

[cornczech04]

95. Remember

Ol' angry father Dick introduced his family during the RNC...WITHOUT his already un-closeted lesbian daughter....doesn't seem too much the proud papa there...and wanna talk about political menuevering...

Dick Cheney=hypocrite

[Name removed]

100. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[VegasWolf]

111. I too think it was a cheap shot, the shot would have been much

better if Kerry had gone nah,nah, na, nah, nah, at the end.
Seriously, attacking hypocrites is always a valid philosophical
pursuit!!

New Information Shows Bush Indecisive, Paranoid, Delusional

[Generator]

113. Do ANYTHING to get elected?

My oh my. These people live in irony don't they?

Well, Fang err lizard alien,err Mr. Vice President of nothing you were ever rightly elected to, sometimes you gotta do ANYTHING to overcome your brand of evil.

[0007]

114. Dick has got to take his anger out on Kerry after watching

junior's pathetic performance./

[Name removed]

119. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[professor skisurf]

124. CNN poll

New DUer here. There is a poll on cnn.com right now (bottom right) asking whether Kerry went out of bounds. The Kerry blog is trying to get people over there to vote NO. Please help too if you can.

[GRLMGC]

125. Nice

Republicans first, parents second. I think there's a special place in hell for the Cheneys.

[Psephos]

126. That comment didn't help anyone

An uncharacteristically uncool moment for Kerry. Using your opponent's kid to hurt your opponent is ugly, I don't care if you're a repuke or a donk. If I was used by someone else to make my dad look bad I would be both deeply hurt and deeply pissed off. You would too. It has nothing to do with politics, and everything to do with the respect we owe to family bonds and family loyalty. THOSE WATERS FLOW DEEPER THAN ANY FUCKING PARTY. PERIOD.

Now, may we return to the business of getting the right man elected in November, please.

[Amigust]

127. Oh, the self-righteous, hypocritical indignation.

It wouldn't matter WHAT it was, if the puppetmaster could find something to blame Kerry for, he would.

And believe you me, if any kid is employed and paid by her father to help get him elected, as Mary Cheney is, that kid is definitely fair game to discuss.

[Kenergy]

128. deleted n/t

[wicket]

132. kick!

:kick:

[NNN0LHI]

133. Didn't Cheney bring up Mary being gay at the 2000 debate with Lieberman?

Pretty sure he did.

Don

[Elginoid]

135. Kerry was WRONG to bring up Mary Cheney in the debate.

that's my personal opinion- Kerry fucked up big time by doing so. It made me cringe while i was watching the debate.

[vetwife]

147. Was Cheney and Keyes wrong as well?

This was a direct answer to a direct question. Bush used a personal reference about a soldier. Should the family of the soldier be offended? People on te campaign trail bring these matters up usually and in this case as well, when there is an issue on the table and the side who is screaming family values yet acting ashamed of their daughter's sexuality plus wanting to take away her civil liberties along with thousands and thousands with a constitutional admentment and any rights because of sexual orientation is so hypocritical. The Cheneys are using their daughter to pander to the right and get people to quit concentrating on Bush's total failure to remember what he said about Osama. "Not really concerned"...statement of denial.

The Cheneys drug their daughter out of the closet in 2000 (satire) and now are wanting to push her back in when it becomes uncomfortable to their R-winged based. Is that a good parent? I think not. I think Kerry was giving Cheney a compliment and reminding voters of their hypocracy. I may not approve of every thing my child does, but I surely would be angry at Bush for trying to put his agenda ahead of my daughters rights as a citizen. Do these people love their children? NO ! If Dickie and Lynne had any integetrity (LAUGH) they would have quit the campaign when the issue of admentments was brought up. They only care about power, money and war. Screw the kids, theirs and ours. That is their attitude.
Cheneys daughter is who she is and John Kerry can accept that. Our base accetps that. Its Mommy and Daddy and Bush who want homes for unwed mothers and closests for gays. Since when did lesbian become a four letter word? I am heterosexual but if we were in the minority, would we want to be treated this way?

[Gyre]

137. Fuck the offended because they aren't..

It's really just "alligator" anger. And you know what? I don't give a rats ass if gays are born that way or choose to be that way. I couldn't care less.

Gyre

[Child_Of_Isis]

139. It is all over the tele.

Which just proves to me that Cheney is, in fact, using his daughter for political purposes. He is after the gay vote. If one did not want the news to be shouted from the roof tops, then one does not send it's pundits out to keep expounding on it, and stirring the shit. These people are too obvious.

[GinaMaria]

141. They are angry Kerry won all three debates

This is all they have. Cheney has discussed his lesbian daughter at the 2000 Veep debates in regards to a question about gay marriage. John Edwards just said something at this year's Veep debates and Cheney thanked him for his kind words about his family. Alan Keyes has said some of the foulest and most offensive things about the Cheney's daughter, Mary. They never publicly said a word about Keyes, never denounced him or his statements. But they are full of rage that John Kerry said something, so beneign? What's the difference between what John Edwards said and what Kerry said? The only difference is that it was said by Kerry and he's a threat to them.

Their position is inconsistent and appears to be a way to target rage at Kerry. They can't fire up their base with hope, they use fear and blind rage. The only real problem they have with Kerry is that he won the three debates and exposed the chimp as a court jester. This is a way to try to bring Kerry down in the polls. Wish the media would stop buying into this simplistic, childish false journalism. They should expose this as an inconsistent position by the Cheney's.

[m_welby]

146. the only person...

...who can speak out as being offended by the remark is Mary Cheney. When SHE stands up and asks for an apology then Kerry should apologize. until then the rest of the Cheneys should just shut up! It's not about them, its about her.

and since she hasnt spolen up, i think that is very telling on how she really feels about it.

[MaryBear]

150. I agree and disagree with posters above

I think Kerry would have done better not to have mentioned Mary Cheney without her permission, even though she and her father had already done the "outing" (and where was her mother's upset then?). I think Kerry may have at some level been reminding homophobes that the current administration has gay family members. I think the Repugs bring it up as a distraction to the real issues.

[takumi]

153. This is NOT A REAL ISSUE!

Has Mary Cheney (who IS an adult the last I checked) responded to this alleged 'attack' on her?

[MaryBear]

156. I agree, takumi.

Thought I was clear about that.

[brentspeak]

165. I was thinking the same thing

There were plenty of other ways that Kerry could have responded to the question, and it was curious that he would cite Mary Cheney as his example. My feeling is that he indeed wanted to remind Bush's Christian conservative base that the vice-president has a lesbian daughter.

[SeekerofTruth]

151. Personally attacking Cheney's family was wrong, period.

I thought Democrats were better than Repugs, makes me wonder. If roles were reversed people here would be outraged.

Or is this site being taken over by Neo-Liberals?

[takumi]

152. "Personal Attack"

Please explain what you mean by this.

[SeekerofTruth]

155. Gladly, you don't make references to family members

The disagreement is between Kerry and Bush, not Kerry and Cheney's daughter. If Kerry's daughters disagreed with Kerry on some issue, (which I guarantee they do) and Bush pointed this out in the debate, how would you respond? You would be outraged at Bush if he brought out this disagreement and mentioned Kerry's daughter.

Any debater knows, you debate the person, not that person's family.

[The Magistrate]

158. Nonesense, Sir

This is not the Oxford Union, but a political brawl, in which bringing out the hypocrisy of the enemy is of some importance, and in which anything which might cause the enemy some difficulty ought to be done.

Cheney, and by extention his puppet behind that podium, displays a monstrous hypocrisy in this matter. When it suited his purposes to pose as something other than a creature of reactionary fundamentalism, Cheney was happy to babble on and on about how his daughter was gay and he loved her anyway. Now that it seems necessary to curry votes from the worst elements of fundamentalist bigotry for his political survival, he is just as happy to lend countenance to a political movement that would, put bluntly, see his daughter dead by stoning if they had their whole way in the matter. By allying with, rather than opposing, such people, Cheney shows he is no father to his daughter, and no man at all, but a calculating and despicable coward. It will probably do no harm to remind the fundamentalist bigots on whose votes he is now relying, that he has raised a daughter who has chosen, by their deluded lights, to take a sinful and degenerate and un-holy path, for it may encourage some to imagine there is an equivalent unrighteousness on both sides of this election, and so sit on their hands rather than filthy them by registering any degree of support for a sodomite....

"The fundamentalist, of whatever stripe, is the common enemy of humankind."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[SeekerofTruth]

159. Just because Bush is a hypocrite, doesn't make Kerry right

It's taking it to the personal family level that is WRONG! Here's an analogy: You can call me a chicken lillied, $#@#@%, and that's okay. But if you say my mother wears combat boots (whether she does or doesn't is irrelevant) you have crossed the line.

I believe in gay marriage, but don't tell me how my family or my friend's family and I, disagree (you've now made it personal). To me, if Kerry talks about his daughter, that's okay. If Cheney were to talk about Kerry's daughter, he's out of line.

[takumi]

162. It would depend on the Context!

[The Magistrate]

163. You Force Me To It, Fellow

Your mother wears Army boots....

There is a whiff of the grave about this conversation, and no profit to continuing it. Scruple is a luxury only spectators can afford.

"Politics ain't bean-bag."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[SeekerofTruth]

164. LOL, of course she does, and so does the rest of my family

We're kindof weird that way.

[takumi]

160. Whooosh!

[ProfessorGAC]

154. What Was The Attack?

He didn't say she did anything wrong. He referenced her directly regarding an issue on which she has made public statements.

She is an openly gay woman. She appears in public with her partner, and she is an officer on the re-election committee.

Everybody knows she is a lesbian. Everybody knows who she is. Everybody knows she doesn't believe her orientation is a choice.

What did Kerry say that anybody would consider an attack? That he mentioned the name of a campaign official on the other side? Politicians do that all the time.

I think you need to read what he said, and then pass judgment.
The Professor

[SeekerofTruth]

157. Correct, but he's attacking a family disagreement

instead of debating the issue with Bush. You don't bring family matters into debates. As Tony Soprano would say: Business is business, family is family. Don't mix'em.

Personally, I think Bush and Cheney are huge hypocrites and assholes, but in my eyes Kerry showed zero class (with his statement).

[ProfessorGAC]

161. What Family Disagreement?

The Cheney's have both said they love their data, and respect her decisions. Both said, both in public. Right?

So, how would Kerry know that there was internal strife in that family over the fact that Mary is gay? Your contention would only be correct if it were common knowledge that the Cheney's and their daughter are at odds over her lifestyle. Given that she is working as an officer on her dad's campaign, that conflict would be quite inobvious.

I think this whole thing is a tempest in a teapot, because the Repubs know that Li'l Georgie got trounced in the 3 debates and they've got nothing else.

Insults are ALWAYS a matter of intent. Kerry was not intending to say anything but something nice about Mary Cheney. No intent; no insult.
The Professor

[brentspeak]

166. I really doubt that Kerry just wanted an opportunity to say something

nice about Mary Cheney. This was a political debate; he wanted to remind the viewing audience that the vice-president has a lesbian daughter.

[ProfessorGAC]

167. I See. So, It's Your Interpretation That's Correct

Nobody else's matters. The fact that it wasn't even an attack of any kind doesn't matter, either.

Nice talkin' to ya.
The Professor