ABC: What Happened in Kerry's Vietnam Battles?

[RamboLiberal]

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/print?id=166434

<snip>

Nightline traveled to Vietnam and found a number of witnesses who have never been heard from before, and who have no particular ax to grind for or against Kerry. Only one of them, in fact, even knew who Kerry is. The witnesses, all Vietnamese, are still living in the same villages where the fighting took place more than 35 years ago. A Nightline producer visited them and recorded their accounts of that day. The accounts were subsequently translated by a team of ABC News translators.

<snip>

Less than a kilometer upriver is Nha Vi, a small hamlet. Vo Van Tam, now 54, was a local Viet Cong commander during the war. According to him, the area was a hotbed of guerrilla activity. They had recently been reinforced by a 12-man unit, supplied with small arms and one B-40 rocket launcher. He said the reinforcements had been dispatched from provincial headquarters specifically to target the Swift boats.

According to Vo, there were at least 20 Viet Cong soldiers at Nha Vi there that day. "There were 12 soldiers from the provincial level and eight from the district level," he said.

His wife, Vo Thi Vi, 54, said Feb. 28, 1969, is a day that the villagers of Nha Vi hamlet will never forget. "Everything was destroyed," she said. "There's no houses left. They leveled everything. There was no leaves left. The fighting was very fierce."

[UpInArms]

1. this seems to substantiate Kerry's military version and not the

Slow Boat Liars.

from your link:

"When the firing started, Ba Thanh was killed," Tam said. "And I led Ba Thanh's comrades, the whole unit, to fight back. And we ran around the back and fought the Americans from behind. We worked with the city soldiers to fire on the American boats."

According to the after-action report, after beaching the Swift boat, Kerry "chased VC inland, behind hooch, and shot him while he fled, capturing one B-40 rocket launcher, with round in chamber."

None of the villagers seems to be able to say for a fact that they saw an American chase the man who fired the B-40 into the woods and shoot him. Nobody seems to remember that. But they have no problem remembering Ba Thang, the man who has been dismissed by Kerry's detractors as "a lone, wounded, fleeing, young Vietcong in a loincloth." (The description comes from "Unfit for Command," by Swift boat veteran John O'Neill.)

"No, this is not correct," Nguyen Thi Tuoi, 77, told ABC News. "He wore a black pajama. He was strong. He was big and strong. He was about 26 or 27."

[ET Awful]

2. I was thinking the same thing. . .

Also, O'Neill says there was no return fire after the boat was grounded. According to the witnesses there was fire coming from all over.

[RamboLiberal]

5. O' Neill supposed to be on Nightline

Koppel better slap him silly.

Will Sinclair ABC affiliates be ordered not to air this? H'mmmm!

[SharonAnn]

30. Koppel slapped him silly last night. It was great!

[NMDemDist2]

3. wow

and interesting the Swities came there first and tried to get the villagers to tell a different story.

snip...

Back in Tran Thoi, villager Nguyen Van Khoai said that about six months ago he was visited by an American who described himself as a Swift boat veteran and told him another American from the Swift boats was running for president of the United States. Nguyen said the man was accompanied by a cameraman.

"They say he didn't do anything to deserve the medal," Nguyen said. "The other day, they came and asked me the questions and I said that the recognition for the medal is up to the U.S.A."

He said that, after they met, the Swift Boat veteran and the cameraman turned around and went back down the river. Nightline has not been able to identify the men. ibid

[ET Awful]

6. How much you want to bet they were sent as part of the filming

for the "documentary" that's coming on Sinclair?

[starroute]

24. If they were, that's really damning

Part of the claim about "Stolen Honor" has been that it was made on a shoestring (about $200,000) with funding from anonymous veterans. This has seemed very suspicious to me, and I keep expecting evidence to turn up that they had outside support from someplace like the Moon organization or the neocons.

If they had a cameraman wandering about in Vietnam, there's no way they could have been operating without outside funding. I'm sorry ABC couldn't track down his identify -- but hopefully some further clues will emerge.

[yardwork]

17. The Swifties went to people who had been attacked

and asked if their enemy deserved a medal? How sick is that?

I'm not saying anything against Kerry or the American troops - they did what they were ordered to do.

[olddad56]

4. Why doesn't ABC take the time to investigate Bush's battles ...

I would think that they could find several coke dealers and bartenders who remember Dubya and his ongoing battle with his demons.

[Lefty48197]

7. Bush never earned these medals:

[RamboLiberal]

8. Double Header on ABC tonight - Start with Primetime Iraq Vets Story

Following inquiries by ABC News, the Pentagon has dropped plans to force a severely wounded U.S. soldier to repay his enlistment bonus after injuries had forced him out of the service.

Watch Brian Ross' report on "Primetime Live" tonight at 10 p.m. E.T.

Army Spc. Tyson Johnson III of Mobile, Ala., who lost a kidney in a mortar attack last year in Iraq, was still recovering at Walter Reed Army Medical Center when he received notice from the Pentagon's own collection agency that he owed more than $2,700 because he could not fulfill his full 36-month tour of duty.

Johnson said the Pentagon listed the bonus on his credit report as an unpaid government loan, making it impossible for him to rent an apartment or obtain credit cards.

<snip>

Hagenbeck also pledged look into the cases of the other soldiers ABC News brought to the military's attention, including men who lost limbs and their former livelihoods after serving in Iraq.

http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/print?id=163109

[ET Awful]

10. I hadn't heard that story yet. . . .

That's frickin' despicable.

[donkeyotay]

9. Wait a minute. I thought everything had changed

Are these the same pseudo-journalists who have given the fraud a free ride on every ridiculous lie that's passed his lips? Are these the folks who have effectively declared his entire (albeit short) record off limits because 9-11 changed everything? They went to Vietnam????

Still probing? But, oh say, Cheney's energy task force is in the past?

Couldn't investigate the phoney Republican mob in Florida.

Couldn't investigate PNAC, the Office of Special Plans, or why all the major networks conspired with the administration to mislead this nation to war. But this, this merits an investigation.

Unbelievable.

[iamjoy]

11. Let It Drop!

I mean, this could work to Kerry's advantage, showing the Swift Boat Veterans to be liars or to his disadvantage to people who think the Vietnam war was wrong. (I know if these were Viet Cong guerellias Kerry's actions were justified, but pacifists see it a little differently)

In the meantime, all it does is stir up wounds that should be healed.

[NMDemDist2]

12. i agree it may stir up people, but kerry fought hard against the war

when he got home

when they drop we will, but Sinclair and Swifties need to be answered

[w4rma]

15. How? We aren't the ones running million dollar ads attacking Kerry

on his heroism in Vietnam.

[yardwork]

18. The wounds are not healed - they festered and now it's happening in Iraq

We have to open this all up and let the truth come out. All of it.

[iamjoy]

22. To Paraphrase: Do You Think We Can Handle The Truth?

I mean, so they were Viet Cong guerillas and we were "right" to attack them aggressively? Wouldn't we fight like hell if our country was invaded?

It is obvious John Kerry learned the lessons from Vietnam and George Bush did not. No snide remark about Bush not going - since we know Vietnam was a wrong war, why would we blame anyone for avoiding it? John Kerry drank the Kool-Aid as a young man, and you know how the saying goes, fool me once...

[Dancing_Dave]

13. I'm glad this side is being told...

:thumbsup:

[moondust]

14. Tactically speaking

it's not too hard to visualize the Viet Cong mining the river and then laying in wait for the noisy swift boats to come. Channel them into the mine field and when they blow up pick off the others trying to save them.

[FredScuttle]

16. "witnesses...who have no particular ax to grind for or against Kerry"???

Sure, because all the old Viet Cong soldiers have no feeling about the US servicemen who were trying to kill them 35 years ago.

Why the fuck is this even on network TV?

[exJW]

19. most vets hold no ill will towards their old enemy

[Bandit]

27. I have met several ex NVA soldiers and hold no ill will toward them

When we met on the field of battle I did my best to kill them. Today they are just people like everyone else. They didn't establish policy and neither did I. We all were nothing more than pawns and I for one don't harbor any hatred for them. I didn't feel they did either.

[MallRat]

20. CALM DOWN! THEY CORROBORATE KERRY'S STORY!!!

Read the entire article, folks.

The Vietnamese witnesses ABC interviewed said that a Viet Cong fighter, with a rocket launcher in hand, was shot down.

Not some defenseless kid wearing a loincloth. A MAN WITH A ROCKET LAUNCHER, JUST LIKE KERRY HAS SAID ALL ALONG. The Swiftboat Liars are about to be eviscerated.

John O'Neill is walking into the lions' den tonight, and Ted Koppel is going to eat him alive. This may well be the preemptive strike to shut up the Swiftboat Liars before their next offensive.

-MR

[PROGRESSIVE1]

29. Yes but Ted has to do his job which is very rare that he does it.

[saracat]

21. Could this be the October surprise?

[cosmicone]

23. Why don't they ...

.... do a story on how the chimp bravely defended Alabama from the threat of airraids by the Oklahoma air force while high on coke?

[wishlist]

25. This story backs up official military records and Kerry's account

Unfortunately ABC and Ted Koppel have not made it abundantly clear that what they found out corroborates most of the details that are in Kerry's official records, and debunks the Swiftliars account of events.

Nightline also uncovered the Swiftliars visit to the same Vietnamese village that has not been disclosed or admitted by Swiftliar John O'Neill. Major important point that may not be clear to everyone reading article or watching the show last night was that Swiftliars apparently also found out the truth and have covered it up because the accounts of the Vietnamese support the truth behind Kerry's version and official military records.

There was substantial firing at John Kerry's Swiftboat, this was a major supply area for the Viet Cong, the man John Kerry killed was a well-known Viet Cong his late 20's and he was a strong man who was killed in the chest, not in the back. All of this contradicts the Swiftliar John O'Neil version of events.

[demokatgurrl]

26. Great, but-

it's on in the middle of the night on a weekday on a show that may not get a lot of viewers, and of course the Democratic party won't speak out about it or make any ads-
The truth can only come out if it is BROUGHT out, spoken about, loud and clear. You have to hit people over the head with this like the SWift Boat Liars have hit everyone with their garbage.

[wishlist]

28. I am upset that this story was not presented more clearly and effectively

This is a major story that needs much more visibility. It is incredible to me the way ABC/Ted Koppel was so cryptic and confusing in the presentation of this expose. Why didn't he just come out and say clearly that they found eyewitnesses that back Kerry's version and the official military records and contradict the Swiftliars version of events by John O'Neil. I guess they were trying to bend over backwards to seem objective in their presentation so they wouldn't be accused of partisanship and raked over the coals the way CBS and Dan Rather were.