Next US chief has to heal the meanness (ZOGBY predicts KERRY WIN!!)

[Tesibria]

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=894
Released: October 18, 2004

IN MR John Zogby's mind, there's little question that the electorate in the United States is divided into what he calls 'two warring nations' - one favouring President George W. Bush in the upcoming Nov 2 presidential election, the other siding with his Democratic challenger, Senator John F. Kerry of Massachusetts.

The increasingly sharpening divisions are over ideology - conservative versus liberal - and over the very core values of the American system, which has long prided itself on tolerance and magnanimity.

'Each side feels that if the other wins, it would be the end of the Republic,' Mr Zogby told The Straits Times during an overnight visit to Singapore sponsored by Reuters.

'Whoever the next president is, he is going to have to be, first and foremost, a healer - or at least someone who stops this widening, this deepening of ideological divisions in the US. The ugly thing is, this meanness has spilled over from the halls of Congress to Main Street, US.'
....
That is Mr Zogby's way of saying that President Bush has been 'the most divisive president in modern American history'.

'Republicans and Democrats aren't talking to each other across the aisle,' he said. 'In Congress, they used to swim together, play tennis and racquetball, and they used to party together. Now they don't even know one another's names. The civility has gone.'

It has gone, in his view, because President Bush deliberately chose to ignore the 'creative centre' that traditionally energised American politics.

From the very start of his term in January 2001, Mr Bush resolved that he would go as far right as the political structure would tolerate. Unfortunately, the very tolerance that has signified magnanimity permitted Mr Bush to take his policies to unprecedented locations rightward.

'The danger of ignoring the 'creative centre' is that you then cannot appeal to both sides in the political and sociological game,' Mr Zogby said. 'That's why the next president has to be like Thomas Jefferson. The American political system simply cannot take any more of this push to the right.'
...
'Polling can be uncertain only if you rely on statistics alone,' is Mr Zogby's riposte. 'That's why an effective pollster has to rely on culture, history and sociology. I repeat, polling is the study of human behaviour, not simply a sampling of people's preferences.'

That may well explain his success. His big test will come on Nov 2. In Singapore last Friday, he flatly predicted that Mr Kerry would become the 44th President of the United States.

And what if he's wrong?

Mr Zogby looked at his questioner with some irritation. But it could have been the fatigue on his face after a 24-hour flight from New York.

By Pranay Gupte Straits Times, Singapore

[flordehinojos]

1. What does wind socket Mary Matalin predict?

On election 2000 from hell while she and Bill Press were hosting the elction return and CNN gave the election to Al Gore, Mary wind socket Matalin went on the air saying "this is wrong. This is going to change. Keep watching, you will see." Well, what did her wind socket know? Who had she talked to? Why did the Civil Rights Commission looking into voter fraud in Florida never question her? Why did one James Carville of CNN's Crossfire never answer an e-mail i sent to him asking just those very same above questions?

[The Backlash Cometh]

6. Look how much election fraud we're uncovering now that we're

paying attention. That's what Mary Matalin knew in 2000. And shame on her.

I'm telling you though, this level of corruption is too high to tolerate and it filters throughout our country. From the federal to the local level. It's white collar crime gone amok. And it has destroyed the integrity of our country. We need to pursue these crimes through our criminal justice system, because common people don't have the money to find justice through the civil courts.

[yardwork]

35. While DUing polls I've noticed the great number of corruption cases

in local jurisdictions all over the country. My area usually has corruption, graft, and various front-page examples of greed. In recent months I've noticed that this is pervasive throughout the country. All over the country.

The president sets an example.

[The Backlash Cometh]

42. Damn! Glad to meet you!

I hope Kerry makes Integrity a critical part of the changes in America. He can start with the real estate market. The municipality I live in was developer-controlled in the beginning, and it just seems to go from good ole boy to good ole boy from that point on.

I consider the Villages a very dangerous precedent. 40,000 people under the control of one small tiny H.O.A. board. And rule are meant to be broken...

[henslee]

28. That's my new bumpersticker -- HEAL THE MEANNESS - VOTE KERRY

[Samantha]

48. You are the first person I have heard bring this up

I thought it was remarkable. Actually, she made her remark "I am going to go out on a limb here and say Florida will go to Bush* right after the network called Florida for Gore, and consequently projected him to be the winner of the election.

Her remark in the face of what had just happened was a clear indication she had inside knowledge Bush* would carry Florida despite what the numbers were then reading. How could she possibly have known this call by the network would be reversed? That is the question. It's never been answered. I can only theorize that she knew Jeb Bush* would never allow Florida to be put in the Gore column. For two years, newscasters had casually said Jeb was expected to "deliver" Florida to George...and deliver he did.

I believe Mary knew Jeb would at all costs "deliver" despite the networks' call.

[grasswire]

2. I believe Zogby is wrong in one respect

Bush doesn't represent conservatives. Those who support his agenda aren't conservatives. And so the story here is that conservatism has no leader -- no champion. The divide in the country is between radical neo-conservatism and moderate-liberalism. Conservatives and leftists have no true representation and may as well embrace Kerry.

It's wrong to say that the divide has any conservatism about it.

[JolietDem]

4. See the New Yorker article on Z?

Zogby seems like one of the most reliable polsters out there...and I give him credit for being willing to put more of his own political views on the line, although I don't think that hurts his credibility...I think mainstream media relying on losers like Gallup are goign to get a big surprise come November

[The Backlash Cometh]

7. Libertarianism. Bush pursues chaos economics.

The man may be too dumb to know it, but that has been Cheney's agenda all along.

[DulceDecorum]

3. Oprah has spoken

VOTE OR DIE.

And you KNOW that a whole lot of people are going to do the former.

:kick:

[flordehinojos]

9. doesn't oprah support the bush boy? i think she did last time around.

(but i admit, i may be wrong.)

[Seabiscuit]

53. I wouldn't know. I blacked out Oprah

after she publicly and ignorantly vilified IVF procedures.

[durablend]

10. That's why * pre-empted the flu shots

He wants the latter!

[demokatgurrl]

19. I thought she had bashed the hell out Bush

on a recent show.

[The Backlash Cometh]

5. haHAHAHA! "The civility has gone"

What did the b******s think was going to happen when they decided to destroy political correctness? PC was just a catch-word to describe how one should act and talk in a diverse world. It was just an extension of "civility." The Republicans helped destroy that concept. And now we're all paying the price.

[IndianaGreen]

25. Civility went out of the door in 1994

We can all blame Newt Gingrich and the 104th Congress for its loss. The Clinton impeachment fiasco and Ken Starr were just icing on the cake.

The sad reality is that no matter who wins, we can expect the bloodbath to continue until one side destroys the other, or more likely, the country is torn asunder by secession fever (which may not be bad in itself!).

[The Backlash Cometh]

30. There is one way to bring it together.

The Democratic way WAS the Christian way. Their method provided for the poor better than any church could. The Democratic way was also the best ECONOMIC way, because it ensured that people had jobs. It was also the better military method because Civil servants accepted low pay and were loyal and they worked well with G.I.s. They took their jobs seriously, were fairer than the people running the show today.

But, perhaps the best way to do it is to show how corrupt the Republicans have been with their cronyism. Start with Ralph Reed, Dick Cheney and Delay.

[The Magistrate]

36. Indeed, My Hoosier Friend

Matters have reached such a pitch that the "meaness" can be removed from the scene only by incarceration of the criminal element within, and behind, the Republican Party. There is an ample range of charges, from disclosure of state secrets to vote fraud to bribery and defrauding the government on which the Justice Department of President Kerry's administration can proceed. It is essential that this be done: the snake must be scotched once and for all, and its followers driven back into their kennels....

"So grave was the situation it was necessary to execute the sentence and proceed with the trial afterwards."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[pretzel4gore]

46. yep...anything less is treason

nt

[CBHagman]

49. Even considering the '90s, it still seems worse now.

I know, I know. Gingrich was infernal, and I do recall Charlie Rangel passionately declaring to the GOP on the floor of the House of Representatives, "You've brought hatred into this House!" I remember reading that young Republican congressmen of the Gingrich days would refuse to socialize at the White House.

But I think it's worse now, and a lot of it has to do with Bush snits, plain and simple. George W. Bush will turn like a dog on fellow Republicans if they don't show absolute fealty. Surely this can have done nothing for the long-term party unity, no matter how powerful they are now.

Also, to be blunt, the Republicans are pretty impotent and angry, despite all the power they wield. This had better be a lesson to the Democrats: no matter how much power you accumulate, you can still screw up mightily.

The important thing is not to implode. No matter what happens next month, I do have faith that progressives will gradually achieve their goals. We must not let them take our hearts and our hope. We must not turn on each other. We must succeed where GOP has failed.

[Marthe48]

38. Not out the door quite yet

At least on the Dems side. I'm in Se Ohio, and volunteering at the Dem headquarters. We recently had the worst flooding in over 40 years. The building the dems are using didn't get flooded, but just around the corner, the Republican (basement)headquarters got 5 ft. of water. Some of the other volunteers from the Democratic Headquarters assisted the Republican volunteers getting as much equipment and so on saved as they could. This even though Marietta will probably go Republican. I was really proud of this outreach. A few years ago, it would have been just normal human decency, but because of the anger and bitterness between the parties, it was remarkable.

[OutsourceBush]

8. I beat you by half an hour

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x912689


;-)

[Tesibria]

13. Tin Man/Scarecrow

is great article -- and further supports the argument - but is different article :)

[teryang]

11. It isn't conservative vs. liberal

It's fascist vs. liberal and the middle of more conservative voters are still talking to their liberal friends about what to do about it.

[Charles19]

22. I wouldn't call Bush a conservative or Kerry a Liberal

Neither of them fits my definition of either.

[kohodog]

23. Also secular vs fundamentalist, not that different from Iraq.

It may be that the religious right is being used to try to create a one party state. But make no mistake, the real money comes from the Coprporations and ultimately turns fascist.

We've been well on our way for years, and I don't see Bush being kept as the top man. He's being used because he can appeal to the hard right and religious right at the same time.

This election may be our best chance to shift the momentum.

[Demeter]

12. You Know, Bush Didn't Do This All By Himself

The GOP purged itself of any reasonable person, so that now Arlen Spectre is considered "reasonable". The entire party should be denazified.

[JoFerret]

20. They are deliberately following their agenda

most of what has happened was by intent.

[FlaGranny]

24. These republicans are NOT

the republicans I remember throughout my lifetime. I've always been a Democrat, but I have voted for a handful of Republicans in the past. This crop is something else entirely. Nixon is a Green by comparison. Nixon scared me when he was president but he seems to be so innocuous when you compare him to these guys. And that's really saying a lot.

[calimary]

27. That is why this election is so crucial. These people have to be beaten

back. They have to be PUBLICLY REPUDIATED. They have to have loser-stench smeared all over them, every bit as forcefully as some military police person in Abu Ghraib smeared feces all over the body of that prisoner.

If they win, the winner's luster will be on them, and they will appear to have a) the air of correctness and b) the blessing of God upon them. It will read that they were "right" and that this was good and sanctioned from On High. They will call this God's Own Vote. They'll say "SEE? This PROVES God is on OUR side, NOT YOURS!!!"

Further, it will give a "papal blessing" to kkkarl rove. It will be a clear signal to political operatives all over the country that THIS is the way to go. THIS is the way to win. THIS is how it's supposed to be done. THIS is how YOU should do it. And if you win, you must be right. Right?

THAT'S how it'll be read, in campaign offices and think tanks from hither to yon. It'll just be the big cosmic "good housekeeping" seal of approval on all this utter evil. And they will, I GUARANTEE YOU, transmogrify this into some almost cinematic good-guy/bad-guy morality play, wherein the good guys finally triumph. And if THEY triumph, that implicitly means they're the good guys. Why else would God have blessed their efforts and allowed THEIRS to bear fruit? And believe me, that's even how they're gonna word it from every televangelist's pulpit in the nation. Because this is a war between good and evil, dontcha know.

That's why failure (losing), for us, is NOT AN OPTION.

[wrate]

43. Isn't this what happened in the mid terms in 2002? Bush was a hero then!

How can anyone explain that Americans left and right voted for Republicans all over America and gave them total control of the House and the Senate? How?????

[depakid]

14. There's no healing the meanness

There's only banishing the mean from power... and the airwaves.

[tom_paine]

15. Correct. And trying to "heal" will only be interpreted by Busheviks

as liberal weakness.

Essentially, they will see it as the NAazis would see it.

Liberal Weakness.

To be exploited and rewarded with more attacks.

No healing with Monsters.

I only pray Kerry will remember what the reward was for letting Iran-Contra go unpunished...

[glitch]

40. me too. fervently

I only pray Kerry will remember what the reward was for letting Iran-Contra go unpunished...

[llmart]

16. This phrase jumped out at me......

"the very core values of the American system, which has long prided itself on tolerance and magnanimity."

This is exactly what the majority of the Republican party does NOT represent any more and this is what saddens me. I have always been a Democrat, but I have never before in my life (I'm 55) felt so strongly that the Republican party was tearing our country apart with their right-wing agenda. There are still a handful of Republicans that I respect, but very, very few.

[barb162]

51. "The American political system simply cannot take any more of this

push to the right."

He's so right.

[harper]

17. Don't forget talk radio

Lots of folks listen to a steady diet of Rush and his ilk. The more you listen the more you hate.

[Edmond Dantes]

32. They deliberately stoke hatred and induce polarization.

Angry people are people who are motivated to ACT.

We cannot unite our country through intellectualism or "healing". But we can by appealing to their sense of HONOR.

The redemption of American Honor. That is the path back to the America we once knew.

[wrate]

44. Agreed, it should be illegal to use the public airwaves to instill fear

and hatred. That should be outlawed. And Religious organizations cannot mess with politics. People should make their minds in this respect by themselves, not by being controlled by the preacher in turn. I know its putting limits to the first amendment but something needs to be done to stop this.

[midnight armadillo]

18. There's an EXCELLENT article on Zogby in latest New Yorker

Zogby is an interesting guy...he has in the past called elections correctly when no one else could, and uses slightly different methodology from other polls.

He's a Republican, but is quite unbiased when it comes to his polls and when he talks about them.

Go read the New orker article, it's in the edition with the flag on the cover.

[Stuckinthebush]

21. Weren't people trashing Zogby here this weekend?

Perhaps we need to rethink Mr. Zogby's abilities.

[IndianaGreen]

26. People will trash the bearer of bad news

In a way, many among us are indistinguishable from the intellectual rigidity and intolerance that is so characteristic of the right wing.

How many people are still trashing Winona LaDuke, despite her endorsement of Kerry, and even trashed Michael Moore until very recently.

I wonder what the reaction will be against us when we march against the Iraq War when Kerry is President. What will they say then?

Some people ought to be reminded of the meaning of the word "Liberal."

[rocktivity]

29. Methinks the gentleman protests too much

Polling has come a long way since (1848). Globally, it's now a US$4 billion...industry annually...

And to hold on to his piece of that $4 billion, a piece of which he gets from the Republican party, it seems he's playing the "too close to call" game along with everyone else. Is he trying to pre-emptively explain a Kerry victory to the Bush White House in order to justify holding on to GOP business?

:headbang:
rocknation

[kentuck]

31. I think this is an issue that Kerry should address....

"The American political system simply cannot take any more of this push to the right."

[enki23]

33. no matter what happens, we aren't getting a "healer" this time

i really think it'll get uglier before it gets better.

[Amigust]

34. "has to heal the meanness"

John Kerry and John Edwards would definitely bring soothing balm to the wounds Bush and the GOP have inflicted on this nation and the world, but the underlying infection will remain active as long as corporations and evangelicals control the Republican Party and define its goals.

[AlFrankenFan]

37. *hums Hail to the Chief*

it's been almost four years since I could do that. but then again, I am not one to trust polls, so I just hope for the best.

[LiberalFighter]

39. The way to heal the meanness?

First, gw* would never be interested.

Kerry could heal that meanness by inviting/meeting with reasonable Republicans along with Democrats.

And blackballing specific Republicans such as Hastert, DeLay, Frist, McConnell, Hatch and others of their ilk.

[Zorra]

41. Step 1: Elect Kerry. Step 2: Take Back The Media Step 3: Put all

the republican crooks in jail Step 5: Make the voting process as transparent and fraud proof as possible.

Without the artificial bolstering of non-sensical republican attitudes by a RW corporate media and the number of republicans elected through voter fraud, the republican party will die the natural death that it should have died of 100 years ago.

[wrate]

45. What * has done is underscore the differences between Americans, to divide

them.

Kerry needs to look for the common ground, those ideas and values that are shared by every American regardless of their ideology. And underscore this ideas and ideals. Make them his ideological and political flag.

And without a doubt, a lot of people need to go to jail. If people see that you can get away with the type of crimes the * Administration has gotten away with, they will continue to pursue this avenues. And political, economic and social stability of the U.S. will remain at great risk. And next time it will be even worse.

[Seabiscuit]

54. Well put! I love it!

[Sugarbleus]

47. Zogby is usually pretty right on....

I'm hopeful with his comments on a Kerry win.

On the other things regarding civility and a divided country..........wellllllllllllll, I'm pretty pissed off. If Kerry bends one inch to "accomodate" a neo-con bill that is harmful to Dems ideals, I'll go postal!!!

Too much mamby pamby civility on our part is what got us into this mess, with a majority republican government, in the first place.

What I want to see is a shift to the LEFT. Let the repugs wring their hands for awhile. Serves them right. :mad:

I do believe in getting along with reasonable minds, but I'm NOT supporting reaching out to this ultra conservative bunch in government now. NO WAY. Run the bastards out of town on a rail--there's NO dealing with them anyway. Bring back "NORMAL" balanced republicans and then we can talk.

[goforit]

50. He may be right on in his comments, but, POLLS?...paid under the table!

[Amigust]

52. "Too much mamby pamby civility on our part is what got us into this mess"

Agreed 100% !

plus an awful lot of party leadership negligence that didn't take notice of the early warning signs and do something about it early on. Only at this late date 30-40 years later is it beginning, with Gov. Dean's Democracy for America campaign.

If Kerry makes it, the GOP onslaught against his every move will be relentless, just as it was with Clinton.

The left has already moved toward the right, it's now near the center while the right has gone ultra. I certainly don't want to see Kerry moving yet further to the right, aka, regressive, than the Dem leadership already is.