Pro-war MPs draw a line in the sand: revolt over deployment

[cal04]

Labour in revolt over deployment of troops under US command
ANDREW MACKINLAY (MP for Thurrock)
I supported the conflict. I don't abrogate that, but there is a line in the sand to be drawn here. I have a responsibility as a Labour MP and to our British service personnel. I just don't think this can be justified. I would hope that Geoff Hoon will think again about this because it is politically untenable."

PAUL FARRELLY (MP for Newcastle-under-Lyme)
Voted for the war
"There is no way we should give this dangerous American president any encouragement to inflict the sort of civilian casualties that we have already seen in Fallujah. We should instead be praying that he leaves office shortly."

ERIC ILLSLEY (MP for Barnsley Central)
Voted for the war
"I'm concerned about the timing. We've been asked by the Americans two weeks before their election to cover for their troops. Is this a ploy to allow Bush not to send more troops? If we made a decision to send troops tomorrow, it looks like we are stepping in to help out the President."


SIR GERALD KAUFMAN (MP for Manchester Gorton)
Voted for the war
"I have not changed my view on the war, but I do not want my government to be manipulated by one of the most unscrupulous US administrations that the US has ever seen."

more comments
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=573607

[2Design]

1. wow

[wurzel]

2. Seems the Brits know Bush better than a lot of Americans do.

"unscrupulous". There's a word to take your hat off to.

[acmavm]

3. Ouch!

<snip>
SIR GERALD KAUFMAN (MP for Manchester Gorton)
Voted for the war
"I have not changed my view on the war, but I do not want my government to be manipulated by one of the most unscrupulous US administrations that the US has ever seen
<snip>

You tell 'em Gerald.

[dpbrown]

4. HELP US! TAKE OVER AGAIN!

We were wrong. We screwed up. The queen doesn't look so bad.

JUST HELP US! SAVE US FROM KING GEORGE THE NAKED!

[Jacobin]

5. "one of the most unscrupulous US administrations that the US has ever seen

Thank you, sir Gerald.

[UCLA Dem]

6. ouch. go brits.

[Carla in Ca]

7. DUers..please read the 'General reported shortages in Iraq' thread

This can be THE nail..read the KOS link

[Kimber Scott]

8. If they're anything like our own politicians they'll spew all this great

sounding stuff and then go along with Bush. It's called having cake and eating it, too. I'll believe the line in the sand when I see it.

[Benhurst]

9. If they get rid of little Tony Blair, then I'll take them seriously. n/t

[BillZBubb]

10. These TURDS should shut the F**K up!

They supported Bush* and Blair illegally attacking Iraq. Now they are trying to weasel out by "drawing a line in the sand". Please.

Dump Blair, then we'll talk.

[Pert_UK]

15. What, like Kerry voting for the war and then disagreeing with *'s methods?

I suggest you think before you post.

These MPs are questionning why, with over 100,000 US troops in Iraq the UK is now being asked to send around 650 of its reserve forces into the most dangerous part of the country. If, as many suggest, it's simply so that Bush can say, "Look, our allies are doing dangerous work and being killed too!" and deflect attention from the needless US casualties and utter fuckwittery of the situation, I think they've got a point.

There's no contradiction in supporting the war but not wanting troops lives to be risked purely for the political gain of an incompetant foreign leader.

Add to this the facts that a) their current position is directly opposed to Blair/Bush and b) their support for the war was largely due to being misled by Blair/Bush, and I fail to see what other honorable, sensible methods they can use to publicly air their anger at the situation and drop Blair/Bush in the shit.

I don't think your comments are fair or reasonable.

[BillZBubb]

17. Kerry did NOT VOTE "FOR THE WAR"

Kerry voted to give Bush* the authority to use force if Saddam Hussein failed to let the inspectors in. Saddam Hussein let the inspectors in, but Bush* attacked anyway.

There is a big difference. Get your facts straight.

[Nihil]

19. You're on thin ice ... stop jumping up and down?

The only "big difference" is in the attitude being displayed.
You are hurling abuse. Pert_UK is calmly pointing out your hypocrisy.

The facts are clear in both cases, only the presentation varies.
The MPs made the same political decision as Kerry and have since
(apparently) come to their senses.

In both cases, it would have been wiser to pay more attention to
arguments against war than to their own political position but,
again in both cases, they are politicians first, representatives second.

[Pert_UK]

20. Thank you very kindly.....you put it better (and more politely)

than I would have managed in the circumstances.

Anger leads to hatred, hatred leads to the Dark Side.

I mean, I'd be pretty pissed off if Bush ran my country (I'm pissed off that Blair runs mine) but I'm fairly sure I wouldn't then start attacking people who were drawing attention to the hypocrisy and underhand methods of my leader and his allies.

[BillZBubb]

21. Baloney! Or Rubbish, whichever you prefer!

Those MPs ALL said they supported the invasion and war. Kerry NEVER said he supported the invasion and war. Kerry only supported authority to use force IF AND ONLY IF Saddam Hussein didn't let inspectors in. Get your facts straight.

You are treading water, I'm on solid ground.

[cal04]

11. Blair runs out of support over Baghdad mission for Black Watch

TONY Blair was left isolated last night as his decision to send Black Watch soldiers into Iraq’s infamous Sunni Triangle to cover American troops was greeted with total opposition. Even pro-war MPs refused to back the deal with the United States.

In the House of Commons yesterday, Geoff Hoon, the Defence Secretary, insisted that no decision had been taken, but then all but confirmed it had when he said Britain would have "failed in our duty as an ally" if it turned down the request from the US for help. The suspicion that British troops could be deployed to help the US and, by extension, the re-election campaign of President George Bush, left usually loyal backbenchers angry at the government.

Labour MP Andrew MacKinlay, an outspoken supporter of the war, said that the proposed redeployment was a bridge too far even for him and begged Mr Hoon to reconsider."There has not been a single member of the parliamentary Labour Party supporting this deployment," he told the Commons.

In his statement, Mr Hoon confirmed a request for British troops to help the US forces operating in Iraq had been received on 10 October, but he said a decision would be taken tomorrow after military chiefs had assessed whether the troops could be sent to the American sector.

But when Mr Hoon was asked by a Liberal Democrat MP, Jenny Tonge, what political penalty Britain would pay for turning down the US request, he replied: "There will be no penalty, but we will have failed in our duty as an ally and a country that has strongly supported the US."
The answer provoked angry shouts from the Labour benches.

http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1213332004

[bvar22]

12. British smart not to touch Fallujah.

The massacre of civilians in Fallujah is another huge War Crime. Despite the illegality of the whole occupation, the British have kept their nose fairly clean so far.
Like most monsters, bush* would like to see them (the British) loose their soul by helping him in this War Crime.

We are now murdering the very same people bush* said we were in iraq to liberate!

[Jacobin]

13. Does anyone know if Britain is part of the International Court system

that tries War Crimes.

I know Bush pulled out of it since he is a fucking war criminal.

Seems like Blair, et al would be prime candidates

[aneerkoinos]

14. Yes

Both UK and Iraq are signatories to ICC (Internationall Criminal Court), so ICC has jurisdiction on possible UK war crimes in Iraq. Indeed there are several pleas to the court to take up charges of UK war crimes in Iraq. The biggest crime, war of aggression, however is under 7 years (at least) moratorium in the ICC treaty, so Blair is of the hook on that one.

[Aidoneus]

16. They have their own "Fallujah"

though it's been quieter in coverage, their own crimes in al-`Amarah, al-Basrah, Nasiriyyah, etc. haven't been much better.

[tom_paine]

18. one of the most unscrupulous US administrations that the US has ever seen

Wow, even the pro-war Brits SEE IT!

Truly a testament to the Greatest Propaganda Machine & Lie Laundry the world has ever seen, the Bushevik Goebbels v2.0 Infrastructure.

Hitler and Goebbels would absolutely be jealous of Bushler & Herr Rove.

In awe.

Perhaps they will get to deliver compliments in person when the Amerikan Hitler & Goebbels eventually die and join the German originals in Hell.