ID required to vote in Colorado

[Judi Lynn]

October 19, 2004

ID required to vote in Colorado


By KYLE HENLEY - THE GAZETTE

DENVER - Colorado voters must take identification to the polls on Election Day, a judge ruled Monday.

Colorado Common Cause had sued to block the practice on grounds that it might prevent some people — college students and the homeless, for instance — from voting.

But Denver District Judge Morris Hoffman determined that requiring voters to show ID will help the state combat voter fraud, an increasing concern in Colorado this year because thousands of questionable voter registration forms have turned up in county clerks’ offices across the state.

Showing ID, whether it’s a driver’s license, birth certificate or passport, will help detect illegal voters “before fraudulent regular ballots are cast and fraudulent provisional ballots are counted,” Hoffman wrote in his 27-page opinion.
(snip/...)

http://www.gazette.com/display.php?sid=1290709

[JusticeForAll]

1. This is an outrage

I hope they get an injunction and tie it up in courts till next election. This is horrible.

[dethl]

2. Never mind...I spoke too soon....

But still, does this mean that a voter registration card isn't enough?

[shockingelk]

3. ?

What's wrong with proving you are who you are?

I find not requiring some form of ID odd.

[Lexingtonian]

5. that would be reasonable

provided, of course, that it doesn't get abused.

In theory it seems a very good idea. In practice there are always abuses perpetrated.

The deal is that you can't make the persons checking ID abide by rules or not scam people before voting closes. A voter prevented is a ballot not cast in time, it's that simple. The election worker simply has to pretend that your e.g. drivers license is a forgery- and you won't be casting a ballot. It's generally been a Republican technique to drive down voting in poor and minority precincts- no one has money for a lawyer or is much aware of election law, and often people speak poor English or are easily intimidated by people acting under the guise of governmental authority.

Have a look at how Bill Rehnquist, our Chief Justice, got started. He was law student and showed up at a polling station in Phoenix on Election Day. He set up a desk and a chair and started telling the people in line to line up in front of him to get their ID's checked. Apparently he started sending Latino people home quite selectively and telling Anglo ones that everything was OK. Anyway, he got kicked out when the election workers had the time to figure out what he was doing. His record since has not been much better.

[shockingelk]

7. your problem is with the abuse then

I really don't see how you could run an election without determining via some form of ID that the person is eligible to vote.

[CO Liberal]

30. If There's a Problem....

...people can cast provisional ballots.

[CO Liberal]

29. We Don't Have Voter Registration Cards in Colorado

They required photo IDs during the primary in August. Most people just show their drivers licenses, which have an indicator if the person is registered to vote.

I didn't have to show my ID at the polling place in August - I'm a precinct co-chair, and my co-chair was a judge. She vouched for me.

[maxrandb]

83. Also just announced that CO overseas voters

now have an extension until 12 November. Announced by the Secretary of State

Colorado Extends Deadline for Receipt of Absentee Ballots from UOCAVA Voters

There has been a delay in the mailing of absentee ballots to Uniformed and Overseas Citizens Absentee Voting Act (UOCAVA) citizens from Colorado for the November 2, 2004 general election. Because of the delay, the Secretary of State of Colorado has extended the deadline for the receipt of absentee ballots from UOCAVA voters by ten days up to and including November 12, 2004.

Ballots must be cast by 7:00 p.m. mountain standard time on Tuesday,
November 2, 2004 and received by 5:00 p.m. on November 12, 2004. Overseas voters who have not yet received their state absentee ballot can use the Federal Write-In Absentee Ballot (Standard Form 186) (FWAB) to vote for candidates for Federal office.

Bet this wouldn't be an issue if * were not in trouble.

[ronabop]

4. I am currently in Colorado.

I have been on the road for two months now.... I have no current mailing address. I have an Arizona driver's license, and my last voter registration is at a site I *no longer* live at (so no chance of getting a ballot mailed to that address...)

For somebody like me, what do you suggest to use that I am allowed to vote based on my *actual location*, without ID's that are location specific, getting in the way?

-Bop
edit: spelling

[cenacle]

6. hope you can resolve your situation....

just an opinion here...use your birth certificate to register & vote absentee in your birth state or driver's license to do the same with AZ...your situation sounds funky and troubling...i guess i would handle it by one of those options even though, if you were not born in colorado or with a CO driver's license, you don't get to vote there...figure out which state you can work with, and do something toward registering...

or better yet, call the voter registrar near you and ask their advice...see if there are some avenues little known that you can use...good luck :)

[qazplm]

8. I dont know

but I DO know the answer isnt simply let anyone just walk up and say they are whomever with no proof at all that they are who they say they are.

[truthisfreedom]

10. i think the way it's done in Minnesota is to bring a drivers license and

any utility bill with your name on it. of course, if you don't pay directly for utilities, you might be able to use something else... make a call to your local government center and ask.

[Ruby Romaine]

13. you should contact local election officials NOW to see what you need to do

maybe you'll need to get a Co. drivers lic?
PLEASE don't wait until Nov 2.
I'm sure there is a way for you to vote.

[hlthe2b]

14. Can you not:

1) list a friend/sibling/parent's address?
2) Will they not take a PO box?
3) You might be able to collect mail at an AMEX office, if you happen to have that credit card; I know you can overseas.

Good luck!

[fugop]

15. Call to confirm

I'm not sure your driver's license would have to match on the address. My guess (which could be wrong, which is why I'd call) is that they simply want a picture ID. A driver's license is such an id. I don't think they're checking your address or state, just that the photo matches. I'd suggest calling to check on that. I sure hope it's just for the photo. But I'd get the confirmation on that ahead of time just in case some overzealous pollworker tries to say the address has to match if it doesn't.

[WatchWhatISay]

26. The real question is, what constitutes a valid ID

I am an alternate election judge in my Texas precinct (the actual election judge must be a Republican because my precinct voted overwhelmingly for the Republican candidate in the last governors election).

If a person does not have their voters registration card, they can instead use any of the following (among others):

any form of ID which has a picture (I am told this could be an employers ID card, YMCA identification card, Sam's card - it does not need to have the voters address on it

a copy of a current utility bill, bank statement , government check , paycheck, or other government document that shows the name and address of the voter

US passport, birth certificate, US citizenship papers

In past years you could use a bank account check with your address on it, or a poll worker could sign a statement if they had personal knowlege of your identity. These two types of ID have now been eliminated.

[WoodrowFan]

50. same in Virginia

I do the same thing in Virginia (but since we have a Democratic Governor, I get to be chief this time). We have the same rules, it's not hard to get an ID and we mail everybody a voter ID card when they register. We also accept pretty much anything with a name and address on it...


really, so long as they are flexable on what constitutes an ID I think this is totally reasonable.

[psychopomp]

71. Absentee ballot

It is too late to apply for one this year. On the application you simply provide your address of last place of residence.

You can check the regulations for your state here:

http://www.fec.gov/pages/faqabsentee.htm

[LiberalFighter]

90. Call election board

Not knowing more specific information
Like when was the last time you voted at that address
How long ago you moved


In some cases you can still vote at least for President but not for elected offices that are local.

[gatlingforme]

9. This will become a subjective selection being placed on the person

checking IDs and from the previous thread -- a prime opportunity to disenfrachise certain voters. This is getting ugly.

[Robb]

11. I was an election judge in CO in April

...Everyone who showed up to vote brought ID. :shrug:

It does add another step or two for homeless, college, and other rovin' folks. But it's not hard to get an ID card for wherever you live at the time -- I've been a couch surfer and still managed to get it togther to register to vote -- and frankly, if you're not going to be staying long enough in my county to do that, I'm not sure I want you voting on my mil levies.

[gatlingforme]

12. The homeless are disadvantaged as well as ex-cons, and other

minorties that might not have the means to go that "extra step" to get a "valid" ID... also, as you know as a judge, that all IDs must be valid and thus, all that have expired IDs are not able to vote either.... this includes ex-prisoners, homeless people, divorced people, any number of people who must go through a hell of alot more now than before 9/11 to get valid ID's. Getting a valid ID is not just an "extra step" ... by no means.. in post 9/11 as you know.

[RivetJoint]

17. Ok...explain to me how HARD it is to get an ID

Jesus Chris! We need to stop whining about how HARD everything is. You sound like Shrub and his "hard work" claptrap.

If your vote is important to you, take some time and get a FUCKING ID!

[gatlingforme]

21. Well, thanks for the insult, but I have an ID and in Illinois this is

what you need to get an ID.....i.e. DL or state ID(photo)
1) original bc
2) ss card
3) voter registration card, or library card or credit card or something with your name and ss # on it addressed to you... i.e. a doctors bill or something...
and when you get divorced you must show your divorce decree when you change your name. or vice versa.

You sound like you are very disturbed by my opinion. Get a life if you can't handle it.

[RivetJoint]

23. That doesn't sound very hard to me

If voting is a priority, getting a valid ID is not that hard. I can handle anything, include getting an ID. Seems you're the one who finds life so hard.

[gatlingforme]

27. Who the hell are you? I do not respond to insults you enjoy doling out.

[RivetJoint]

32. What insult?

[Occulus]

56. It is if you're living under a bridge

I slept under a tree or two when I was in college. I couldn't have provided ID other than my driver's license if I had to do it to save my life. Had I lost that, I wouldn't even have been able to obtain a state ID card in lieu of a DL; I had no access at the time to ANY of the documentation that proves I am who I say I am.

If you're homeless, identification can be very hard to get indeed.

[ParanoidPat]

73. Pardon me RivetJoint but how many native Americans live in CO.?

How easy do you think it is for many of them to get a 'valid' ID? :shrug:

I think the view from your neighborhood may be a little different than the everyday realities faced by many other Americans so I suggest you do a little research on past election fraud. :(

You may be shocked at what you find! :wow: :evilgrin:

If it were up to me, everyone would have to give a 'thumb print' at the time they register to vote that is kept in a secure database as a 'hash' value that can be confirmed at any polling place with a cheap fingerprint scanner.

In many states an electronic thumb print is already taken when you renew your drivers license. With the growing number of states enacting 'motor voter' registration laws, it only makes sense to use what information already exists for so many people. :)

An alternative that I've encountered are polling places that, along with the poll book that you sign when voting, have an alphabetical card file with copies of the original signed registration forms for every voter in the precinct. Your signature in the book is quickly compared with the signature on file after you sign in to avoid anyone being able to forge it without knowing in advance what it looks like.

Whether you choose to acknowledge it or not, getting a proper photo ID is not very easy for many people in some areas of the country due to economic and logistical factors.

[RivetJoint]

76. VERY easy

Anyone who is a legal resident of the US can get a valid ID.

[wildeyed]

78. For free?

'Cause where I live there is a charge for a non-drivers id. And to require someone to pay for an ID would constitute a poll tax.

Look, I have been registering homeless voters. Trust me when I say you really would not want to be in their shoes. They eat crappy food, have poor health care, no private transportation, and tenuous living situations. It IS hard work for them to get an ID. Every day is hard work for them. And they need to vote so they can get better access to affordable health care, low income housing and good schools for their kids so their kids can have a better life. This ID requirement is just another way to put the foot on the back of their necks, keep them down. IMHO.

[wildeyed]

77. Exactly.

Plus it often cost money to get something like a non-drivers ID, so that constitutes a POLL TAX which is illegal.

I have been registering the homeless in my state. These are often good hard working people who have simply had some bad luck. But their existence is so precarious. They are really just living one day at a time, trying to get a little ahead. I think to judge them by middle class values is absurd.

How hard is it to get an ID? Well really damn hard if you have no address and you live pay check to pay check in a homeless shelter with three kids.

[Snivi Yllom]

74. I agree

How hard is it to get ID. Showing ID to vote is not a major burden.

[RivetJoint]

16. How?

Have an ID = VOTE
No ID = NO VOTE

How can anyone disenfranchise you if you have your ID and follow the law?

[Chico Man]

18. I hope everyone gets the message

Some people may not realize they now need an id, and may not bring one to the polls.

[RivetJoint]

19. People ought to know the rules

before they show up. Voting is IMPORTANT. KNOW the rules!

[Chico Man]

53. Right, and this article discusses CHANGING the rules

Close to an election.

One might think they KNOW the rules, and may be surprised to find out the rules have changed.

Is this new rule printed in the voter guides mailed to registered voters?

[gatlingforme]

22. Well, plenty of people coming out of prison have an invalid ID

many people that are divorced or married and need to change their name will have to go and get a new ID...

If the judge deems your ID invalid i.e. expired... you can't vote. alot of judges do not know what a valid ID is...
and that is where the judge becomes subjective... who will be allowed to vote based on what ID is shown.... and if it is even valid

[RivetJoint]

24. Then get a new ID

if you need one. If it's expired, get a current one.

My point is: Voting is important. Make sure you follow all the rules so you can vote. Having a valid ID makes common sense; it's one of the best ways to prevent voter fraud.

[gatlingforme]

25. Our opinions differ on this. Do we have stats on this? Will requiring

people to show ID's cut down on voter fraud??? I highly doubt it. What you might gain by showing ID, is not important enough to disenfrachise people. IMO.

[RivetJoint]

34. How is it disenfranchising

any one to expect them to follow sinmple rules?

Nothing wrong with having a person verify they are who they say they are before they vote.

[Laughing Mirror]

36. But are IDs, such as birth certificates, really foolhardy?

I can't see that they are anything much more than a laisser-passer, but that it is my signature, when I come in and sign up at the desk before going in the booth, that will have to be checked. But at what point? When I sign in? In the event of recount?

[RivetJoint]

37. Nothing is foolproof

Asking for a valid ID (and I'd make it a picture ID) seems, to me, a good way at reducing voter fraud. I have no problem with that.

[Laughing Mirror]

38. A better way of reducing voter fraud would be shift the burden of proof

on the people counting the votes rather than the people doing the voting. Joseph Stalin warned us, and I always listen to experts in these matters.

[gatlingforme]

41. Yes, and if "you" are deciding that in order for others to vote they

must show you their "photo" ID because you think that is appropriate just illustrates how the subjectivity of this process will factor in

[RivetJoint]

44. That's why it needs to be a uniform LAW

In each state. That's one method of helping to ensure the vailidity of the election process.

[gatlingforme]

40. sometimes getting an ID is not simple for some people. Homeless

people i do not think carry their bc in their back pockets. In any case, you must show ID when you register to begin with... so what is the hang up about having to show ID at voting booths. Also, they ck your sig. when you vote to make sure your are the one who is registered to vote under your own name. And if this is such a grand idea why was this not implemented after the last election. ?? It's a joke

[RivetJoint]

45. So anyone can show up

at my polling place, say they are me (my republican neighbor for example) and then vote in my place. Later he goes back and gives his own name and votes for the second time. I show up to vote and am told, "Sorry, our records show you already voted." No thanks.

[gatlingforme]

47. Where I live, when you vote you have to sign your name and they

match your sig with your voter registration.... How do they do it where you live... I am pretty sure that is why the judges have a copy of your voter reg. card...

[LiberalFighter]

91. Do you know first hand of it being done?

Do you know the procedures used on Election Day?

[AirAmFan]

59. Excellent question. Where are the statistics on so-called "voter fraud"? And

how much "fraud" simply consists of people filling out duplicate registration forms even though they're already registered? Many people may not remember whether or not they are registered, and may fill out a duplicate form "just in case". And then there are the registration workers paid by the piece rather than by the hour. Does their pay get adjusted down when they register people who already are registered?

Registration well may get in its own way--that's part of its attraction to people who want to disfranchise the poor and disorganized..

And how much "voter fraud" consists of people trying to vote who have moved during the 30 pre-election days after registration closes in most states? That requirement has a long and dishonorable history. Alexander Keyssar (in "The Right to Vote") quotes one turn of the century Southern advocate of voter registration laws as having explained, "the negro is a nomadic tribe".

[Laughing Mirror]

20. Do birth certificates now have pictures on them?

Mine doesn't. About all is says is that I'm a male and am 51, but to some people I might look 61, to others 39. What kind of ID is this?

[WatchWhatISay]

28. I think the answer is

Some forms of valid ID dont have to establish your current residence, just your identity. When you sign the voters registration application you are giving your signed statement that you live at the address that you say you do on the application.

[Laughing Mirror]

33. So I could accidentally use somebody else's ID

But as long I signed something to the effect that I was the person living at the address where the voting board has me registered, then my vote would be valid. So it is my signature, and not my ID, then which is valid. I wonder if the voting precincts have somebody comparing signatures, and I wonder just what percentage of undetected voter fraud they are willing to let slide as sort of the cost of doing business.

[WatchWhatISay]

48. Apparently a certain amount is permissible

I live in Montgomery County, Texas. I went to "election school the other day. If someone registers by mail they are either supposed to send in a copy of some form of ID, or if they are concerned about identity theft they may apply without ID but show ID the first time they go vote with their new certificate. The voters rolls are supposed to "flag" these voters on the voter rolls, so that the election judge can verify ID the first time they go vote.

The problem is that our computer here does not have that capability. So bascially, anyone who registered in the 75-80% republican county can do so, and vote, without valid ID.

Couple this with the fact that we were told that there were so many new voter applications that they are afraid they may still be inputting them into the system on election day.

Th

[Laughing Mirror]

55. Will still be inputting applications on election day

Wonderful! Who knows how many people will be showing up in Montgomery County and will be turned away because their application will have not made it through the system yet. It's just a mess everywhere it seems, just from a cursory glance at some of the news from states all over the country. The election theft is going on at this very moment and is being carried out under so many phony guises and scams that many first-time voters, armed with passports and notarized letters from their mother, might decide why the hassle, why bother?

[WatchWhatISay]

67. The is a remedy for this

No one can be turned away and not allowed to vote. For example, if their name is not on the voter roll and a call to election central doesnt clear the problem up, but the voter insists on voting, he can be given a provisional ballot. Essentially his ballot is placed inside of an envelope, which is placed inside another envelope that is actually an application to vote provisionally. If the voter registrar can later verify that the voter is legit, then their ballot gets put in with all of the rest. If not, and most cases will be denied, their ballot doesnt count and they are notified of this via mail, along with the reason it was rejected. But if it is a matter that they just havent been input into the system yet, they should later be "approved".

The problem is, most voters don't know anything about provisional ballots, and unless the election judge offers them that choice, they may leave without voting.

Here is the weird part. If they are truly not qualified to vote in that precinct for some reason (say, they went to the wrong precinct, and its too late in the day to go to the correct one), they can still vote provisionally, even though we are supposed to tell them, and the application even states that their vote will not count.

[Laughing Mirror]

72. That is very weird

If you show up at the wrong precinct you are still allowed the pretense of voting, you can go through the motions of voting, even though your vote is worthless because you are told it is. Do you know the rationale behind this strange custom?

[LiberalFighter]

92. Voters in that situation should call election board to find out their pct

[Red State Rebel]

31. Missouri has always required ID to vote....

I think I saw some newsface say there were about 20 states that required it.

[Polemonium]

35. not surprisingly Colorado is also one of the states with the worst

record getting ballots to overseas voters. Hmmm starting to see a trend here yet.

[AirAmFan]

39. Wait a minute. Why is ID required if people already have registered to vote?

I have lived and voted in five different states. Every time I've voted, I've had to provide a precinct worker with the address at which I registered. Then the worker found the registration book for my street, found my registration form within the book, and had me sign in. The worker compared my signature that day with the signature on my registration form.

If someone already had showed up and signed the space on my form for that particular election, or if my signature had not matched the signature on the form, the precinct worker could have challenged me and stopped me from voting, at least in the usual way, by machine.

How often does this kind of procedure fail or allow an unregistered impostor to vote?

NO ID EVER WAS NECESSARY!

As I recall, only North Dakota does not have voter registration, and there are a few states (including Minnesota) where people can register to vote on Election Day, with no 30 day advance requirement. When there is no voter registration, or when someone is registering on Election Day, ID would be necessary. Otherwise, showing ID is just a superfluous hoop designed to eliminate people who may not always carry "valid ID"., for example, people who cannot afford cars and have no drivers' licenses. Poorer people are much more likely to vote Democratic than Republican. This is why Republicans generally insist on completely unnecessary paperwork for voters. If having to show one ID wouldn't disfranchise enough voters to elect Republicans as consistently as Republicans want, then Republicans would press for requirements to show, two, three, four, five, ten different forms of ID.

Why shouldn't voting be made as simple and convenient as possible? Voting is not -- or at least, should not be -- like trying to get into an exclusive club.

In my opinion, federal legislation should be enacted to enforce detailed standards for fair and open administration of elections everywhere in this country, and ID should NOT be required unnecessarliy.

[Laughing Mirror]

43. I agree. Voting should be as easy as going down the street to buy a paper

In New York City, you walk in a tell the person at the desk your name and what district you're in. If you don't remember your district, you give your address. They find your name printed in alphabetic order on the roll. There's no copy of your signature. You sign on the line, go in the booth, close the curtain, turn the lever. You've voted. Now, if you show up and find out that somebody has voted in your place, that's when questions need to be asked.

[RivetJoint]

46. By then it's too late

"Now, if you show up and find out that somebody has voted in your place, that's when questions need to be asked."

By then it's too late. Someone else got an extra vote. Requiring a valid ID can HELP solve that problem

[Laughing Mirror]

49. But the person voting in my place HAD a valid ID

Only it was my valid ID, not his (assuming it was a he).

[RivetJoint]

52. But you said no ID was required

"you walk in a tell the person at the desk your name and what district you're in. If you don't remember your district, you give your address. They find your name printed in alphabetic order on the roll. There's no copy of your signature. You sign on the line, go in the booth, close the curtain, turn the lever. You've voted"

[Laughing Mirror]

58. Yes, I was trying play by your rules

but wasn't clear. All I'm saying is that my roommate, say, could show up with my driver's license and vote in my place if he looked like me, or with my birth certificate, if we are about the same age, and so on. I don't see how showing ID is a guarantee that I'm the person I say I am.

Anyway, I don't see most of the problem with voter fraud being the fault of the voter.

[RivetJoint]

68. Okay, well we just

disafree. I do see voter FRAUD as being the fault of the "voter."

[Laughing Mirror]

70. Are stolen elections the fault of the voter?

That's voter fraud on a grand scale.

[RivetJoint]

75. I think we are having a semantic disagreement here

Voter fraud is perpetuated by voters (hence the term VOTER FRAUD). Stolen elections are perpetrated by those who allow or encourage voter fraud or who attempt to prevent (or actually prevent) eligible voters from properly casting their ballot and having their ballot become a counted vote.

[Laughing Mirror]

79. Voter Fraud Charges Out West

TEMPE, Ariz., Oct. 14, 2004

Voter Registration Fraud

"... there is no better way to disenfranchise a voter than to say you are registered and then throw away a voter registration form."
Oregon Secretary of State Bill Bradbury

(CBS) By CBSNews.com Chief Political Writer David Paul Kuhn

Officials in Oregon have launched a criminal investigation after receiving numerous complaints that a Republican-affiliated group was destroying registration forms filed by Democratic voters statewide, Oregon Secretary of State Bill Bradbury told CBSNews.com.

Meanwhile, CBS affiliate KLAS-TV is reporting accusations of similar malfeasance in Nevada.

Both state's allegations are linked to a Phoenix political consulting firm called Sproul & Associates run by Nathan Sproul, former head of the Arizona Republican Party. Sproul & Associates has received nearly $500,000 from the Republican National Committee this election cycle, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.

Calls from CBSNews.com to Sproul were not returned.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/14/politics/main649380.shtml

Here is one (of many) current instances of voter fraud now being committed, BEFORE voting day.

[AirAmFan]

51. How often has such a thing happened? I've never heard of even ONE case

where somebody showed up to vote and an impostor already had voted in his or her place.

Have you?

"Voter fraud" is a Republican "urban myth", designed to help them disfranchise Democrats.

Voter registration itself is not really necessary--North Dakota has not had it for many decades and doesn't miss it. If you look at the history of voting in the US, voter registration requirements came into being in most states early in the 20th Century precisely in order to disfranchise recently-naturalized immigrants in cities. See Alexander Keyssar's authoritative recent book, "The Right to Vote".

[RivetJoint]

54. I like the way North Dakota does it

But how do they make sure you don't vote more than once?

[Chico Man]

63. Indelible ink?

jk :)

[LiberalFighter]

94. The first time they have to provide recent documents

that includes their address and name

utility bill
lease
library card

in Wisconsin it can't be more than 90 days old for a utility bill.

They don't need it after they register.

[LiberalFighter]

93. It is not necessary...

anyone attempting to commit voter fraud are risking being caught.

They risk being caught because:

The voter had already voted by absentee ballot.
The voter had already voted earlier in the day.
The voter is in line and hears their address announced.
The election workers know the person is not the voter.
The poll book watcher or other partisan person does not recognize the person as the voter.

[Almost_there]

85. There's no signature in NY? Are you sure?

Everytime I vote in New York and display my ID, I see my signature and sign below it as verification. I seriously don't understand this thread. Its as if everyone is going so far out of the way to include the homeless and college students since they will be disenfranchised. As for a college student, they have many options, the easiest would be absentee ballots from their home town / state. When I was in college, the school ran HUGE voter registration drives, and all you needed was.. well, AN ID! What college student doesn't have a license, a photo ID from school or something?

The arguments here are inane to the point of ridiculousness. What in the world would any of you do if you got to the polling place at say 6pm, told the volunteer your name and UH OH! Looks like someone already voted for you! Duh duh DUM!!! (dramatic music) I would FREAK OUT! All that someone would need in this bizarro land of "no id to vote here!" is.. you guessed it! A PHONEBOOK! Could you comprehend the amount of voter fraud if 400 people got together, and went at say half hour intervals to a dozen different polling places with copies of names and addresses? I would absolutely go insane if Karl Rove did this!! If some right wing nut cast MY VOTE I would go Balistic! That's why I GLADLY show my ID, and sign, and then vote. The arguments of HOMELESS PEOPLE??? voting and so ridiculous. If they WANT to vote, they can get an ID, they can vote, they can do anything, but, to just give carte blanche to someone who says

"Hi! I'm
http://kevdb.infospace.com/_1_36ITV108GC7H8__msn.main/wp/results/kevdb?OTMPL=%2Fwp%2Fresults.htm&QFM=N&QK=5&QN=smyth&QC=chicago&QS=il&KCFG=US&top=internal&ran=28733&from=index
Smyth, Martin E
3711 N Fremont St
Chicago, IL 60613-3911
Let me vote!!

Seriously, think about what you're saying before you actually start talking about the disenfranchisement of a group of people who don't have ID's in a country where none is needed, however, if you DON'T HAVE A PLACE TO LIVE AND AN ADDRESS, WHERE DO YOU VOTE? What if a homeless person lives M-Th in Central Park 79th St and the Museum of Natural History, call that District 24, but, for the weekends he calls Bryant Park his home. Does he get to vote Twice since he lives in both districts? Ugh. This is just ridiculous. Please vote, get out and register, and worry more about how not having ID could hurt with an organized effort than some ridiculous hypotheticals about people who may potentially vote if they had a place to live, an ID, and cared enough to actually vote. Sure, flame away on the fact that homeless people don't care about voting.

~Almost

[Laughing Mirror]

89. Yes I am sure, I've voted often, in the school down the street

You tell them your name (you show no ID, not even your voter card), they find your name (typed, not your signature) on the sheet, and you sign next to it. That's it. And there has never been any problem as far as I know, if so, they would have used another system.

[Blaze Diem]

42. Here in North Dakota, home of Senators Byron Dorgan & Kent Conrad,

its a very simple science..show up at the polls, show your I.D. of some legal sort, verifying residency, and vote..no registration deadlines, no pre anything.
A D.L, photo I.D. from this State or SS card, I can't think of simplifying it anymore than this. Many canvassers will asssist those who want to vote to get proper i.d.'s and that assistance generally comes from advertisements from the political parties. Maybe it works here since we're not a heavily populated state. One hand keeps a pretty close watch over the other hand.

I can see how complicated it may get in States where pre-registration is necessary, i.e. the current fiasco of missing, or bogus voter regis. cards we now see taking place.

I also know of illegals who have several SS cards from various states. There's always going to be fraud, but it seems the more they try to insure an ironclad stystem, the more some republicans find ways to disenfranchise voters.

My opinion anyway.
Keep it simple , is good advice.

[AirAmFan]

69. I really admire the N. Dakota system. It's RIDICULOUS to have a separate

set of "voter registration" records that try to duplicate ID systems that are much better staffed and updated every day, not every other fall.

Anybody who wanted to (because they wanted to demonstrate "voter fraud"?) easily could register a made-up name or a family pet to vote. There are just too few election registrars trying to handle too many pieces of paper in too short a time to be perfectly accurate. But just try to get that pet a drivers' license, Social Security card, power company account, library card, or school ID.

And the elimination of pre-registration raises turnout, too, somewhere between 15 percent and 50 percent, if I recall correctly. Many working people are too busy to plan ahead 30 days. By the time election hype peaks and gets them interested in voting, the registration deadline has passed in most states. But not ND, MN, or a few other states with same-day registration.

[sandnsea]

81. "ironclad system"

That's why Republicans put in all those laws, so they can challenge them and disenfranchise voters. They've been doing it forever and have actually added ID laws under HAVA, not made it easier to vote.

[MacDo]

57. I'm Lost. Please help.

You need ID to drive, drink, bank, rent movies, ETC. What's the big deal about having one to vote for something as important as the President of The United States?

[Laughing Mirror]

60. Those are commercial transactions

Is voting for president a commercial transaction?

Well you do have a point, MacDo.

[Chico Man]

61. Personally I think it is that the change was made so close to the election

It may be difficult to inform the voters of the change, and people may not be prepared when they go to vote.

For the workers out there who don't have much time in the day to get out and vote, it may be an inconvenience.

Although I agree, they should be carrying an ID at all times regardless... the change is overall positive, but may complicate things in an otherwise over-complicated election.

[MacDo]

64. I agree

This should have been Federal Law years ago, and not a last minute addition to a States current laws. And yes, you should never leave home without some form of ID.

[AirAmFan]

65. What if you have no car, get paid in cash, and can't afford to

drink in bars or rent movies at Blockbuster? What if you've been mugged a few days before Election Day? Should you be disfranchised too? Not everybody lives in a suburb. Some people grow up like Antwoine Fisher.

[MacDo]

66. Wow

If life was that shitty, voting might be the last thing on my mind. LOL

[Heddi]

88. If your life was that shitty, voting should be the FIRST thing on yr mind

The homeless, the working poor, the poor, the downtrodden, the homebound and disabled have few recourses when it comes to making a change that will directly affect them.

Hard to write letters to senators and congressmen when you have no mailing address (homeless), or *gasp* don't have a spare buck lying around for an envelope and a stamp.

I know, I know---DU is so full of affluent Americans who only drive by 'that part of town' and never have had to make the decision whether to pay the light bill OR pay the water bill OR pay the rent, because you can't afford all three.

Yes, Virginia, there are poor people in this country. I didn't have a photo ID until I was over 18 years of age, and only because then I started earning a paycheck (instead of cash tips)and had to get it cashed somehow.

Of course, being without a car, and living in a city with DISMAL public transportation, getting out to the DMV to get an ID was somewhat of a task in and of itself. Had to find someone to drive me the 40 miles each way (Uh, you don't need gas money, do you? *gulp*), sit in the DMV for TWO HOURS while I waited to be called, sit and wait the next 45 minutes for my ID to be made. Good thing I had enough cash saved up for that ID--_$10---I know it's not alot to the foie-grois eating DU'ers who wipe their asses with $100 dollar bills, but to someone making $3.75 an hour, $10 is ALOT of money----especially when that $10 is all you have between today and pay day two weeks from now.

Oh well. If I can't eat, at least I can vote, right?

Because we all know that if you don't have a house, a car, a job, a family, or any type of support, you should ALWAYS carry around with you a fireproof strong box locked to your waist that contains your SS card, original birth certificate, immunization form, blood type, medical records, past bills, IRS forms...

OH and BTW--it wasn't so easy to get my ID because I didn't have an origial copy of my birth certificate. So I had to go in person (another cab ride, another $27 each way...) to the department of health and plunk down $15 for a copy of my birth certificate, which arrived in the mail a prompt 6 months after I ordered it.

You know, for the LIFE of me I just don't understand why those lazy, son-of-a-bitching homeless motherfuckers and working poor just don't get off their lazy, crack-smoking, baby-having asses and do the SIMPLE, cost-free, and right-around-the-corner steps necessary to get an ID. Sheesh. </sarcasm>

[wildeyed]

80. For most people its not a big deal to have id.

But for the most vulnerable in our society it sometimes is a problem. The homeless, young people, the poor are often living 'off the grid' to some degree or another. They don't rent movies, have bank accounts, drive, etc.

So do you think they should be denied the right to vote just because they don't live a mainstream, middle class, consuming kind of life style?

FYI, these type of folks tend to vote dem if they vote at all. That is why they are being disenfranchised in a swing state so close to a presidential election.

[ima_sinnic]

84. anybody who applies for social services must have to have ID

right?

[wildeyed]

86. Do they? I dunno.

What if they don't accept any social services or are not eligible for them?

[sandnsea]

82. The Constitution

Voting is a RIGHT, the rest of the stuff you mentioned is a privilege. Although I still disagree that driving is a privilege, traveling the roads seems to be a right to me, but that's for another day.

[LiberalFighter]

95. I don't need ID to drink or buy alcohol

I don't need ID to purchase using my credit card.

[intheflow]

62. Can you say "poll tax"?

It costs money to get all those things.

[LisaM]

87. Agreed - if they are going to require it, it should be free to get it -

and there should be plenty of places available to get it. I once lost a driver's license - and it took me a number of days to replace it, because I had to find all my alternative ID, then find a time and place when I could leave work and go get it replaced (you can get them replaced at non-government agencies that are open on weekends, but those are out of the way and more expensive.) So for someone without ID for any reason, it might be difficult for them to get to the state agency that provides them during their rather short hours of being open.

[UKCynic]

96. Compulsory registration

In the UK we have compulsory registration, it still means that the homeless and rootless aren't registered, but you are sent a polling card by mail and even if you loose it, you will not be turned away if you are on the roll. The returning officer (a non-political local government officer) has the duty of compiling the electoral roll. Some are better than others.

In Australia they also have compulsory voting. However right wing the government, they daren't cut programs to aid the poorer electors as the turnout is 95% +

There's a thought.