Kerry turns the Bible, terror comments on Bush

[NVMojo]

BOCA RATON, United States (AFP) - Democratic challenger John Kerry turned the Bible against born-again Methodist President George W. Bush, arguing that his policies ran counter to America's moral foundation.

The senator, who spent the previous two days fending off Republican claims that he is soft on terror, also pounced on a remark by Bush that it was "up in the air" whether America would ever be safe from attack.

In a major speech on faith and morality, just nine days before the too-close-to-call election, Kerry implied that Bush's social, economic and health policies were immoral, unethical, and by extension un-American.

MORE

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20041024/ts_alt_afp/us_vote_kerry&e=1&ncid=2043

[Kimber Scott]

1. Born-Again Methodist? ROFLMAO! I like that. nt

[yardwork]

3. Chimpy is Methodist? News to me.

I think the Methodist church would be surprised to hear that.

[JoFerret]

12. No, they know

...they just disagree.

[johnfunk]

16. Yep, Methodist -- the "Method" being election theft

And judging by recent news events -- voter suppression, black box voting, Sproul crimes -- it is the state "religion" of the GOP, too.

[AndyTiedye]

20. There is Madness in Bush*s Method

[study_war_no_more]

43. i thought born agains were evangleists?

[Born Free]

2. the bush coward is no Christian

It's all an act, just a "dress up" Christian, just as he was a "dress up" pilot and a cowboy that uses anything to get ahead, the world knows this, and hoping the Americans soon wake up.

[acmavm]

4. DUers, you know the drill.

You have given the news article Kerry turns the Bible, terror comments on Bush a rating of 5.
Its current average rating is 4.30 with 135 vote(s).

[NVMojo]

5. done!

[mia]

8. Rated!

430 - 173 votes

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

25. 4.17 at 331

[chelaque liberal]

6. Great speech! Kerry is coming on strong.

I think the Suskind article "Without a Doubt" really freaked some rational people out-myself included. Kerry is right on target by talking about this now.

"Kerry also sided with Bush opponents who believe that the president's firm religious convictions have seeped too deeply into policy and weakened the sacred separation of church and state in US politics.


"My task, as I see it ... is not to write every doctrine into law. That is not possible or right in a pluralistic society. But my faith does give me values to live by and apply to the decisions I make."

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

7. Kerry was right when he said

that looking after our brothers and sisters is a responsibility found in all spiritual traditions. A nice touch, as it is an inclusive statement rather than an exclusive one.

[madrchsod]

9. there isn`t

any "born again" methodist dogma. maybe a reaffirmation in your faith but nothing like the born again bullshit bush wants every stupid ass fundie believe he is. he isn`t a christian and he`s not a methodist-not even a shout`n methodist cause i doubt he has enough soul to sing...

[NVMojo]

10. that's true and the Methodists I know don't run around

going on and on about the "Rapture" that LaHaye squawks on and on about in his propaganda films.

[Neshanic]

11. Correctomundo! There is no such thing as a "Born again Methodist"

Whoever wrote this shit better get it right. "Born agains" TELL Methodists that they will be in Hell, along with everyone that has not been "born again".

If you tell a Methodist that they were "born again" they would look at you like you were a nut!

Take all religions, all of them world wide. They are not "born agains", and are considered not true religions or belief by them.

[Cheswick2.0]

33. well, not really

first of all, southern methodists like southern Presbyterians may be a very different breed than you are used to. All Christians are by definition born again in Christ. It is just that most of us know it is a gradual process not dramatic deffining moment where we declare our faith publically. You can be a methodist and have a "born again" experience. The problem with bush is that he doesn't give a damn about other Methodist doctrine. He is indeed a phony who never goes to church.

[TrogL]

46. How important is that to other Methodists?

>The problem with bush is that he doesn't give a damn about other Methodist doctrine.

I hang around with Anglicans, Episcopalians, Anglo-Catholics, failed Catholics, Old Catholics, various breeds of Orthodox and other running dogs and hangers on and we tend to take our doctrine and dogma fairly seriously.

One time our priest decided to hold a series of "study sessions" on church history and fine points of doctrine and liturgy, expecting one or two to be interested and got totally freaked when the entire congregation showed up.

I seem to remember Methodists to be fairly rigorous in this regard.

[nolabels]

42. I am a 'Born-Again-Does-It-Matter?'

This must be some kind of bait post where everybody posting about religion or something. I don't claim to be a study on nutin but gettin rid of the bush, and that's more than enough of a subject for me. Just for a tickler try this.

Confessions of a Born Again Atheist

(snip)
I am a 74 year old man that was raised Methodist, my parents were Methodist and my three children are Methodist. I tried for many years to believe in the Christian doctrine but my problem was I was a born skeptic.

I always wanted to know the whys of everything. At a very young age I asked my mother “where did God come from?” She said “I don’t know he was here from the beginning and created everything”. At Bible School I asked many questions and was always told its all in the Bible. I asked my minister did Jesus write the Bible and he said no it was written by many prophets that came after Jesus died ( and you know what happens to a story after it is told about three times it is hard to recognize it. One time my minister told me that if I didn’t stop asking so many questions that I wasn’t going to make a good Christian. For many years I got the same response it’s all in the Bible. I thought that maybe I was the only one that didn’t believe many of these stories.

I become ashamed to talk about this subject, most people would tell me read the Bible. I read many parts some I couldn’t understand others I couldn’t believe. I felt it was a strange fairy tale mostly lies and fantasies about invisible spirits, heaven, hell, Christians killing Christians, women were not mans equal, blacks were created to serve whites, parting of the seas, and snakes that talked. I have cone to the conclusion that Christianity is good for lazy minds a comfort to those who do not want to think just tell me what to think and if I sin it’s no big problem I just pray to Jesus and he will forgive me for anything?? It’s all too easy to be the truth. Thanks to the internet for reinforcing my feelings now I know I have lots of friends thinking people that feel the same as I do.
(snip)
http://www.mwillett.org/atheism/born-again-atheist.htm

[jwirr]

24. You are right

he is only a registered member of the that church. He is a product of the 70's & 80s when the pentecostal movement invaded almost every denomination in the US. This movement is still very active in many. What he is following is a mixture of Baptist/Pentecostal teachings covered by the title Methodist to soften the impact when he gets into trouble with someone who doesn't agree with him.

[susu369]

29. Judi, you are also right

Very well-written and thoughtful post.

"covered by the title Methodist to soften the impact when he gets into trouble with someone who doesn't agree with him."

Bull's eye.

Opinion from a United Methodist member....

[jamesinca]

13. Kerry and the Catholics

I have posted this in other threads, and I hope I can get some use out of it here again. Bush uses his so called religion, I think Kerry should use his religion also, sparingly though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The Catholic Church teaches that all life is sacred. A candidate for office must understand that the Church stands against any policy or course of action that diminishes life, dignity or the rights of the human person: abortion, capital punishment, war, scandalous poverty, denial of health care, mistreatment of immigrants and racism, to name but a few.

There are 60 million Catholics in the U.S. We take the responsibility of voting seriously. Each of us will evaluate candidates based on what our conscience- formed by the signs of the times in light of the example of Jesus in the Scriptures and the teachings of our Church throughout the ages- demands. We will examine the broad range of issues, measuring "all candidates, policies, parties, and platforms by how they protect or undermine the life, dignity, and rights of the human person, whether they protect the poor and vulnerable and advance the common good"
(Faithful Citizenship, U.S. Catholics Bishops, 2004)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If this is not the same line of thought that Bush's so called religion follows, then I really have to question the moral value of it.

[jamesinca]

14. Kerry and the Catholics

oops, it sent twice.

[lawladyprof]

15. Needs to point out

That the Church is opposed to birth control but a Catholic president (of all Americans) should make neither birth control nor abortion illegal for nonCatholics (and, of course, can't make it ILLEGAL for Catholics only--LOL).

[study_war_no_more]

44. Pbs newshour did the religious aspect

kerry looked goood

[freedomburn]

17. Finally he is pouncing on some of Bush's huge gaffs. nt

[PSU84]

18. I love the way Kerry has taken the fight to Bush.

He has shown he's got what it takes to fight the Big Republican Lie Machine. It has been a pleasure to watch him destroy their campaign of lies.

[Terran]

19. Kerry should have brought this idea up much sooner.

It's a no-brainer that Bush talks a lot of Christianity but practices it poorly, especially where policy is concerned. For any person who actually cares about their religious values, I think Kerry had a good chance of persuading a lot of people, but it may be too late to make much use of that now.

[chinacatsunflower]

21. modern day pharasie

Bush has always seemed to me like a modern day pharsie. Money hungry and greedy. man i need to look up some scriptures against what this evil man is doing.......i'll post more later

[0007]

27. The fat little fingers of the modern day pharasie can't get enough

money or fast food.

[doni_georgia]

22. I've been wanting Kerry to do this for MONTHS

As a refugee from an evangelistic congregation, I've known for a long time that Bush is very, very vulnerable to an attack on his actions vis-a-vis his faith. Kerry started hitting this in the debates, quoting from Romans and from the Epistle of James. If you have a family Bible handy, get it out, turn to the end of the New Testament and read it (it's short, only about 5 pages or so). If you compare what James says to what Bush does, it's clear that Mr. Bush hasn't lived up.

BTW, hearing Kerry speak today told me something: the Democrats know they are in control of their own destiny. The GLOP knows they're in trouble and now another bomb is about to drop on them with this stolen explosives story. Kerry SOUNDS like someone who is pressing an advantage. Very, very heartening.

9 more days...
Keep pounding, gentlemen. We'll see who pounds longest. (Duke of Wellington, quoted at Waterloo)

Mac in Ga

[realFedUp]

23. and un-Christian

snip-
Kerry implied that Bush's social, economic and health policies were immoral, unethical, and by extension un-American.

and he should have added un-Christian.

[DeepModem Mom]

26. kick

[Judi Lynn]

28. Great story. Looks like Kerry is a great campaigner.

He makes great points while _Bush takes vicious kicks.

Kerry has NOTHING in common with Bush. Kerry's in a whole different league.

Damned good idea to throw some scriptures right back at these slimes. He's using points they desperately wish were never written, as the real message of the Christian church contradicts the fundies.

Don't forget to vote on the article. I got this when I did:

Avg Rating: 4.16, 356 votes - Your Rating: 5

[Petrushka]

30. Bush & John 3:16

On the 20th of July, I received a forwarded e-mail message from a family member who had received it from a co-worker who had received it from a friend who had received it from . . . well, you get the picture!

Anyway, here's what the e-mail said:


FW: a reason to Vote!

Monday, July 12, 2004

Bush & John 3:16

Worth thinking about . . . The Lord has a way or revealing those of us who really know Him, and those that don't. Think about it! Bush gave a big speech last week about how his faith is so "important" to him. In this attempt to convince the American people that we should consider him for president, he announced that his favorite Bible verse if John 16:3. Of course, the speech writer meant John 3:16, but nobody in the Bush camp was familiar enough with scripture to catch the error. And do you know what John 16:3 says? John 16:3 says: "And they will do this because they have not known the Father nor Me." The Holy Spirit works in strange ways.


Pass it on & VOTE, VOTE, VOTE !!

Siobhan E. Thompson
Kentucky State University



Because the e-mail didn't indicate where/when--exactly--Bush made the faux pas (if, in fact, he did make it!), I didn't forward it to anybody back in July. But, now?

This is my first message posted at the DU. ;-)

[GOPBasher]

35. Welcome to DU, Petrushka!

:hi: :-)

[Petrushka]

36. Thanks for the welcome!

Just discovered DU about a week ago. Loads of info here . . . and lotsa good people, too! Think I'll stick around awhile. :)

[sundancekid]

39. like father like son? original John 3:16 or John 16:3 was about bush 41

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/bush.html

~snip
According to his book Blinded by Might: Can the Religious Right Save America, syndicated columnist Cal Thomas said George Bush (senior) talked of his faith and how meaningful it was to him in front of a religious broadcasters convention around 1990. He said he didn't wear it on his shirt sleeve, but it was there none-the-less. He shared his favorite Bible verse -

John 16:3, "For God so loved the world..."

Of course, the speech writer meant to have George Bush say he was quoting John 3:16. But neither he nor the president had enough familiarity with the text to know the difference. So, what does John 16:3 actually say?

John 16:3, "They will do these things unto you, because they have not known the Father or me."
~snip

[leftchick]

31. This is beautiful!

Thank you Sen. (soon to be president!) Kerry!

:loveya:


<snip>

Quoting from the Bible, Kerry said his faith had taught him "'whatever you do to the least of these, you do unto me.'"


"This means we have a moral obligation to one another, to the forgotten, and to those who live in the shadows," he said in Fort Lauderdale.


"This is a moral obligation at the heart of all our great religious traditions. It is also the vision of America ... the ethical test of a good society is how it treats its most vulnerable members."


<snip>
"I believe we must keep faith, not only with our the Creator but also with present and future generations," said Kerry, who's final campaign thrust is crystalising in a theme of a "fresh start" for America.

[Merlin]

32. This is Kerry's strongest closing argument, imo.

Nothing in this country is more powerful for the Bush supporters, or those leaning toward him, than the perception that he is a man of faith. Of course it's all smoke and mirrors. JK points that out by contrasting Bush's policies with the main teachings of Jesus and the bible; those that focus on social justice.

[catmandu57]

34. It's been said before,

but, it bears repeating, bush* is neither a christian nor a conservative.
If by their actions te shall know them, then a record deficit, and trodding on the necks of the most vunerable makes this moron*, well, I don't know what it makes him, but, he most ceretainly is n either of the above.

[study_war_no_more]

40. faith without works hmmmmmm

spirituality vrs religiousity ???

[donco6]

37. It's about TIME!

What an excellent point Kerry made in his speech. Yes, we have an OBLIGATION to help those who are in need. This is the very foundation of Christianity itself, and one of the most unifying themes in any religion. Throw it right in those Pharisees' faces!

[MsAnthropy]

38. We finally have a candidate who can KICK ASS!

Give it to em, JFK!

[UrbScotty]

41. Praise the Lord! Go Johnny Go! (nt)

[catrose]

45. Who's the Christian?

--The guy who goes to Mass every week, travels with his Bible and Rosary, wears a crucifix, and seems to have spent his life caring for those in his charge and the less fortunate
http://www.iht.com/articles/542446.html

or the guy who never goes to church, mouths a bunch of religious pablum, but whose life story says, "I got mine, to hell with you," whose every piece of legislation is designed to benefit corporations and the wealthy?
http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?pt=vKO1twmWG2Uvnyi2qoWQfW%3D%3D

Not to turn excessively Biblical, but which one is doing the will of his claimed Father?