Huge Cache of Explosives Vanished From Site in Iraq -NYT, front page

[Rose Siding]

BAGHDAD, Iraq, Oct. 24 - The Iraqi interim government has warned the United States and international nuclear inspectors that nearly 380 tons of powerful conventional explosives - used to demolish buildings, produce missile warheads and detonate nuclear weapons - are missing from one of Iraq's most sensitive former military installations.

The huge facility, called Al Qaqaa, was supposed to be under American military control but is now a no-man's land, still picked over by looters as recently as Saturday. United Nations weapons inspectors had monitored the explosives for many years, but White House and Pentagon officials acknowledge that the explosives vanished after the American invasion last year.

The White House said President Bush's national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, was informed within the past month that the explosives were missing. It is unclear whether President Bush was informed. American officials have never publicly announced the disappearance, but beginning last week they answered questions about it posed by The New York Times and the CBS News program "60 Minutes."

American weapons experts say their immediate concern is that the explosives could be used in major bombing attacks against American or Iraqi forces: the explosives, mainly HMX and RDX, could be used to produce bombs strong enough to shatter airplanes or tear apart buildings. The bomb that brought down Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988 used less than a pound of the material of the type stolen from Al Qaqaa, and somewhat larger amounts were apparently used in the bombing of a housing complex in November 2003 in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, and the blasts in a Moscow apartment complex in September 1999 that killed nearly 300 people......


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/25/international/middleeast/25bomb.html?hp&ex=1098676800&en=61cf6e1aa29b7871&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[Moderator]

1. Readers

This is the official NYTimes story. Let's move all discussions about this "explosive" topic here.

[Chicago Democrat]

58. A coverup and Hundreds DIE EACH MONTH!!!

DAMN THEM!

[truthpusher]

93. The Letter

A copy of the letter (from the NYT article) sent by an Iraqi official to international nuclear inspectors to tell them of hundreds of tons of missing explosives.

[MsMagnificent]

222. Theft, Looting, & Lack of Securityall on Fubya's watch

& it's STILL a close race?

Dear Sweet Jesus, what does this clown have to do to get FIRED??!

[12ss1kp]

233. Before

Didn't this come out as missing before the American's got there?

[NVMojo]

97. I am serious. Someone needs to pull all of the politicos

who went to Iraq after the invasion to look for evidence of WMD and interrogate the hell out of them. Start with everyone in the House of Represenatives who went and claimed they had soldiering experience. These fuckers have been lying all along.

http://votegibbonsout.blogs.com/votegibbonsout/2004/03/

[KittyWampus]

2. Al Gore Warned About What Would Happen If Saddam Fell

and these materials were not safeguarded.


Why didn't Bush listen to his generals?

[maddezmom]

6. IIRC so did Joe Wilson

and I'm sure the list will grow

[Ohio rules]

34. The generals wanted three times the soldiers on the ground

imo, Bush felt the cost of keeping that many troops on the ground for a year ( short term )was high and unnecessary.

SO
now we continue to pay in the long run.

[atreides1]

77. Correction

Some not all the generals wanted more troops on the ground, the ones that did were retired before the invasion. The ones that kissed ass, like Tommy Franks, just followed along like the good little toy soldiers they really are.

So the troops continue to pay because Tommy Franks was only concerned with getting his name in the papers, and kissing ass,

[Chicago Democrat]

127. Don't forget about conquering and pulling down statues....

Oh and wrecking the place...

No wonder he retired...

What an ass..

[atreides1]

198. Thank you for reminding me

I had forgotten about the staged pulling down of the Saddam statue, and the looting of museuems.

I think he retired because he knew what was coming, and he got out while the getting was good. Most of the blame has fallen on Abizaid, Sanchez, and the other butt kissers that stayed on, including the US Army version of Himmler, known to us as General Miller.

[Chicago Democrat]

213. This is all we have to talk abotu for the next week.

This and the massacres and that poor CARE woman and just how many car bombs have used these explosives?

[Puppenberger]

238. We need a better October Surprise

Actually, it is now looking like Saddam's terrorists hauled the munitions off across the border before the invasion. The UN stalled us for so long that Saddam had plenty of time to get a lot of stuff out to a safe spot.

We're going to have to come up with something better than "Paper trail is screwed up on 400 tons out of 400,000 captured tons of nasty stuff". Anyway, if we say Saddam had this sort of stuff then it takes away from the argument that Saddam was no threat.

So, let's get to work and find something really damaging to use!

[RaleighNCDUer]

105. Because they agreed with Al? eom

[maddezmom]

3. KUDOS to the NYT

and to the Iraqi Interim Gov't for letting the truth out before the election.

[shelley806]

That's what I don't get....

What made Iraq finally formally notify the IAEA? And if they had agreed to cover it up for so long, why would they release it now, unless it was to influence the election. I think everyone has agreed that there is absolutely no way this could be anything but sickeningly bad news for the Bush Administration, but I've heard so many lies from them, I never know what to expect.

ONE THING WE HAVE TO DO: It might already be addressed somewhere here, but I haven't read of such yet:

WE NEED TO GET AN ORGANIZED LIST OF ALL MAJOR ONLINE NEWSPAPERS FOR LTTE, SITES FOR COMMENTS ON NEWS COVERAGE, RADIO AND TV STATIONS, ETC AND LET THEM KNOW IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS THAT THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE ONE MORE COVERUP. WE COULD HAVE IT POSTED LIKE WE DID FOR THE DEBATE POLLS, AND SINCLAIR.

This is so awful--they knew there were no WMD, or they would have taken better care of potential WMD's. The Oil ministry and pipelines more valuable than human lives for these evil people. Please someone tell me I'm wrong.

[aquart]

4. It was a monitored site. Which means we had it on a map.

We knew where it was and we secured the oil ministry instead.

[Rose Siding]

16. OMG, one of the admin's excuses is that....

"...the occupation force was overwhelmed by the amount of munitions they found throughout the country."

370 TONS, in a facility so huge the NYT compares says it's like the pyramids, escaped notice. THEY WEREN'T GIVEN A PLAN!

Man, I don't want to be the one to tell the Marines about this!

[klook]

Is it Clinton's fault, too?

Or maybe Kerry's. Remember, if he'd been president, we would have never won World War I!

[Eloriel]

114. Right. We knew where it was, unlike the WMD

"We know where they are...in Tikrit..."

Paraphrase of Rummy's assertions about knowing where the WMDs were. (It was actually way funnier than that, but I forget exactly.)

I'm telling ya, to these people, a lie is just as good as the truth. They really don't care one way or the other and MAY not be able to tell the difference anyway. (And then there's the whole Straussian/neocon imperative to TELL lies to the populace.)

[selmo7]

133. and east west south and north errrrrr somewhat -

"We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat. " - Donald Rumsfeld

http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2003/t03302003_t0330sdabcsteph.html

[Eloriel]

187. Thank you, selmo7

And welceom to DU!!

I think that's one of the funniest quotes from Rumsfeld ever. It just cracks me up (albeit in an insane, hysterical, might as well laugh as cry way).

[selmo7]

189. It cracks me up too!

I don't post here that often, but I check the list daily. A friend of mine turned me onto the DU list and I am SO GRATEFUL! I was at one of the Clery debate nights at the DNC in Boston and it's fantastic to see so much energy in this group. I am so SO worried just like everyone else here about what's at stake for our nation.

[shelley806]

144. I've done a lot of reading about Strauss and neocons

recently, and Strauss was a political philosopher--a Platonist; benign and I'm sure misunderstood. The Platonic lies were myths that would enoble people, not degrade and destroy them. I have to read more, but I read today that Wolfowitz said that Strauss had little to do with neocons, PNAC etc.

[Eloriel]

186. Benign?

I think not.

Here's some reading for you:

NEO-CONS
One more time: LEO STRAUSS AND THE NEO-CONS
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=7200&forum=DCForumID70&archive=yes
WAKE UP! - Strauss / Neocons and Terror PLUS dire warnings
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1780890#1781801

Leo Strauss and the Noble Lie: The Neo-Cons at War
http://www.logosjournal.com/mason.htm

Straussian.net -- Leo Strauss and the History of Political Thought
(with Discussion Forums! Book Reviews and a News Blog)
http://www2.bc.edu/~wilsonop/strauss.html

Leo Strauss' Philosophy of Deception
By Jim Lobe, AlterNet. Posted May 19, 2003.
http://www.alternet.org/story/15935
linked to from this thread: Has Straussian ideology permeated the GOP?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2121269#2122935

Eurolegal Services - Neoconservatives
http://www.eurolegal.org/useur/usneocon.htm

[shelley806]

205. Elorial-Thank You so much for the links...

I'll let you know when I've read the articles. Mind you, my view on Leo Strauss is from years ago, reading his History of Political Philosophy, and City of Man. From what I've read of the neocons, most of their connection to Strauss's philosophy is from his unpublished lectures. He apparently shared Thucydides and Machiavelli's views on human nature. But how from this, Strauss is responsible for pre-emption, etc is not yet clear to me. Honestly, I just recently learned about PNAC. Still learning. Thanks again.

[bear425]

5. These are the explosives that are killing our troops and Iraq people

Nice job *, Rummy, et al.

[Gman]

7. Here it is!!

[central scrutinizer]

8. While we were zealously guarding the OIL ministry building

this shit was going on right under our noses. Those fucking bastards - how many GIs are dead or maimed thanks to those scumbags?

[Hokie]

9. Notice the irony in the name of the site

The name of the weapons site is Al Qaqaa. Shrub's chances of re-election after the magnitude of this story sinks in the media dullards pea brains will be El Caca.

[barb162]

19. hilarious

[loveable liberal]

10. another in a long list of *'s eff ups.

Why is he such a moron? Christ to yearn for the days of Reagan??? We are in a sad state of affairs with this boob at the helm.

[truthpusher]

37. You have got to be a real pig not to be pissed at Bush for this one.

[Lorien]

80. Yeah, but the dumbass Freepers will just say

"Look! WMDs! The war is justified"!

Never mind that those weapons would be under lock and key had we NOT invaded! :grr:

[NVMojo]

102. the freeper idiots think this story is no big deal....

imagine having brains so numb to "reality" because they are so "faith-based" they don't think for themselves or question anything. Once upon a time, Repubs were known for questioning the intentions of BIG GOVERNMENT. Now they just help market BIG GOVERNMENT BROTHER.

[truthpusher]

171. The CNN Ticker just called them coventional weapons

it sounds like they will try to run with it as they weren't that deadly.

[Eloriel]

115. Or numbed out

like me.

We knew they didn't guard anything but the Oil Ministry and the Oil wells and pipelines (and those not all that well). We KNEW also that there were weapons caches that could have been sealed and confiscated. This neither surprises nor alarms me more than all that, from the start. Saddens me, yes. But I'm no more pissed than at all the rest of it.

[shelley806]

145. Stephanie has been reporting on this for a long time...

and has a whole list of DU posts about Tuwaitha--I'll try to find the earlier thread and post it.

[Karenina]

176. Here ya go.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1160105

[DuctapeFatwa]

11. The US must bomb Iraq more in order to find these explosives

Special explosive-finding teams from Halliburton must be deployed immediately.

[Rose Siding]

18. Yes we have to disarm Saddam......

so he doesn't let his weapons fall into the wrong hands. Hurry!

[durablend]

212. Halliburton? They probably have their own stash...

Which they dole out every so often when a pipeline needs to be detonated (and subsequently fixed for mucho $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$)

[vs the introvore]

219. let us deploy our brand new 'skyskaper' bomb-seeking missiles!

they always seem to hit their target.

[johnfunk]

12. Kerry, Edwards, Big Dog: HAMMER THIS STORY!

This is the sort fo dereliction of duty by top members of the administration that SCREAMS for more than resignations -- indict the whole goddamn cadre!

[symbolman]

13. It's not clear whether BUSH KNOWS?

WHY NOT?!!!

I think it helps to bring up the fact that Bush sat on his ASS during 911 while the REAL WOLVES brought the world down.

Pass it around if you will..

http://web.takebackthemedia.com/geeklog/public_html/staticpages/index.php?page=20041024021444898

[Sean Reynolds]

22. Not knowing would make Bush look more incompetent....

How could he NOT know?

lol

The shit is hittin the fan!

[maddezmom]

51. bush*: of course..I er ...um..well Condi...so they were er...there and now

they kinda, umm, UP IN THE AIR!!!

[TexasChick]

67. Dudette, that was hysterical!! n/t

[ruggerson]

14. The reason this story is so big

is not the incompetence (though there is plenty of that).

It's the COVERUP

[klook]

57. Does this get a "gate"?

Jon Stewart on 60 Minutes said the only scandal of the Bush administration to be called "something-gate" was "Rathergate," the National Guard memo typography controversy. (Why nobody will get the electric chair over that just boggles my mind, doesn't it yours?) As Stewart said, Bush started a WAR on the basis of forged documents, and that didn't "get a gate"!

[johnfunk]

92. Well, since the facility at which the missing explosives is called

al-Qaqaa, this one's Cacagate!

[ruggerson]

94. lol

[truthpusher]

100. How about 'FUBARGATE'.

[Carolab]

138. Amen and say it again

COVERUP, COVERUP, COVERUP--"WEAPONSGATE"!!!

[MADem]

223. Cacagate! n/t

[progressivebydesign]

15. The most telling thing, and the reason Bush MUST go??

The fact that they (supposedly) told Condileeza Rice about it last month, and was UNAWARE if Bush knew about it. WTF? Bush should have known this IMMEDIATELY? He is so out of touch that they don't know if he knew??? There's something extremely wrong in that administration.

This is a terribly frightening story. How could Rove even spin this one?

[Nexus7]

50. Condi sez "I believe the title of the report was..."

Hearing of the news, Condi said that the reports were too vague and didn't mentioned the exact times and names of the people who would be stealing the explosives. She said that she hadn't told her husband because he had other priorities.

[sleepyhead]

177. "he had other priorities"

Apparently, so does she. She's so busy out on the campaign trail for her husb- oops, Dear Leader - that she can't be bothered with this. Grinding my teeth and holding my breath until Nov. 2!

[gulfcoastliberal]

17. It's not only the conventional explosives, but all the nuclear stuff

got looted, too. Oil facilities got all the attention.

[Sporadicus]

47. The Material Looted Wasn't Nuclear

but it's used to detonate nuclear explosions. That's bad enough, though.

[Karenina]

179. Please read.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1160105

[alittlelark]

193. Well worth the read - thanks! n/t

[Sporadicus]

215. Yes, I Knew About Those Sites

but this particular site had only high explosives...nothing nuclear.

[gulfcoastliberal]

209. I thought they nabbed some kind of radioactive stuff a while ago...

Not this latest revelation, but this:

The environmental group Greenpeace has urged the UN nuclear watchdog to track radioactive material missing from the looted Tuwaitha facility in Iraq to ensure it does not fall into the hands of terrorists.

Greenpeace said in a letter to the head of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), acknowledged by the Vienna-based body on Tuesday, that a mission it sent to Iraq a year ago found radioactive material in communities living near Tuwaitha.

It was sent to IAEA chief Mohamed ElBaradei last week as UN inspectors were preparing to return to Iraq for the first time since the war, at the invitation of the new Iraqi government.

"During the upcoming inspection, the IAEA team must identify the radioisotopes and other dangerous materials still missing," Greenpeace said, adding that it should determine how much material could have found its way "onto the black market."

http://middle-east.news.designerz.com/greenpeace-urges-un-to-track-down-nuclear-material-looted-in-iraq.html

[Hokie]

20. Bush* now in deep Al Qaqaa

[truthpusher]

21. God be with our troops, it must be terrifying for them to know this.

'what the troops really think about you George"

[speedoo]

23. So, another shrub lie exposed.

The lie being that we had to invade Iraq in order to prevent Saddaam from turning over WMD to terrorists.

Now we learn that while Saddaam was still in power, we had weapons inspectors keeping that from happening.

But, as soon as Saddaam was taken down, these explosives were no longer guarded, and now they are probably, no, make that certainly, in the hands of terrorists.

I did not think it was possible to learn anything new about the incompetence of shrubco.

Sadly, I was mistaken.

Only good thing about this is it's the final nail in shrubco's coffin.

[Cocoa]

24. they call 380 tons "huge?"

compared to the entire mass of Iraq, it's not so big.

[Rose Siding]

26. That's why they call it...

Mass-o-potamia. It's really big.

[Nancy Waterman]

31. CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE!!!

That is what we should be calling this. This would be a good term to apply here and have it stick.

[Cocoa]

36. impeachable, at the very least

add this to the list of failures that should have triggered impeachment hearings.

[Carolab]

135. Absolutely.

And reckless endangerment.

[shelley806]

147. cacagate

The CoverUp of Criminal Negligence

[truthpusher]

43. it only took one pound to bring down Lockerbee

[johnfunk]

98. about twelve ounces of one of the explosives brought down PanAm 103

That means we lost enough explosives to blow up over a million jumbo jets.

And the Bush Boy's team covered up this MegaFUBAR.

[RaleighNCDUer]

121. Sure is a good thing that * has funded bomb sniffers at every

airport in the US.

[goclark]

149. This is a Mega Mess!

I am sitting here in shock!

Can't go to sleep, worried sick about this situation.

Boy George is tucked in tight and hugging his Teddy Bear.

Condi is getting her beauty rest so she can be out on the campaign trail in the morning.

Rove is rolling over and worrying about IOWA.

CNN is set to spin about Mary Cheney.

Pickles is reading "The Stepford Wives."

The twins have passed out on the floor.

And the GD explosives are we know not where!!

Impeach all of them NOW!

:puke:

[johnfunk]

211. Condi -- too busy on the campaign trail to track 380 tons of lost KABOOOOM

She should be indicted under the Hatch Act

[Hokie]

25. Wonder if this leaked from Shrub's "friends" at the CIA?

I remember an article at least 6 months ago that said W and the Neocons had made enemies that would extract revenge when the time was right.

[NashVegas]

27. What a Lotta Bullshit Here

The White House said President Bush's national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, was informed within the past month that the explosives were missing.

If Condi were reading DU in the spring of 2003, she'd have known.

[sandnsea]

64. No fucking shit

We've all known this happened, they reported it on the news, even CNN. They secured the oil ministries and not one WMD site, not even these known IAEA nuclear and other weapons sites. I don't know why this is shocking news now, but whatever. If it shakes up the sheeple, I guess it's all good.

[RaleighNCDUer]

123. We've known practically since day one that so-called 'weapons

caches' were not being safeguarded. This is just one of them. Did they think they were storing pea shooters?

[unfrigginreal]

28. So why wasn't this reported by Duelfer?

Was he unaware of the missing explosives?

[brooklynite]

29. Here's how the gang at FR thinks this major crisis should be addressed

We need to get on this one fast, people. Start smearing the NYT, smear the reporter, and focus on the WMD angle. This could be bad...reinforces the dem media narrative that we didn't plan the war carefully. We need to silence this, fast! WHERE'S OUR SURPRISE!!??!!??

[johnfunk]

40. FReeper: "WHERE'S OUR SURPRISE!!??" - THIS is the 1st CIA October Surprise

Enjoy the Last Days of your Dear Leader, Chimpy McFlightsuit, you FRascist losers!

Brooklynite -- do you have the URL for this FRuitcake's whining?

I'm betting there's MORE to come this week.

SURPRISE, FReepers -- your Bush Boy is gettin' rolled!

[brooklynite]

71. Nothing to see here folks...

Brooklynite -- do you have the URL for this FRuitcake's whining?

I just went back to the discussion thread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1255761/posts?q=1&&page=1

but couldn't find the message, although message 24 refers to it.

then I noticed (in small print): Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

Always better not to air your dirty laundry in public...

[Eloriel]

117. That's an ADMISSION of their dirty tricks

What a bunch of fascists.

[milkyway]

44. Assholes! The first instinct is go for the smear. No mention at all

of evidence that might strengthen their case.

[Lorien]

89. They don't give a f*ck about our troops!

all they care about is "Does Drinky McDumbass still look like America's Messiah"? or "how can we screw the Dems with this"? They care NOTHING about those in harms way!

:grr: :grr: :grr:

[noamnety]

56. It's not the NYT

It's the FACTS that are reinforcing the narrative that Bush didn't plan the war carefully. Stupid freepers.

Does "support the troops" mean anything to them at all?

[Tanuki]

79. Indeed

The only concern the freepers raised was how this might affect Bush. Not one of them showed any regret or anger over the death and maiming of our soldiers (or innocent Iraqi civilians)that has resulted from this.

[cubsfan forever]

181. Cowardly Freeper only care

about themselves. Just like the Chickenhawk in Chief. I had friends who never came back from Nam. What about the poor grunts over there now? BUSH DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THEM, EITHER!!! Ms Rice is a FRAUD!!
THIS MAKES ME SICK!!!! Impeach, Hell! Coward George should be sent to prison!

Professor 2

[alittlelark]

195. When Kerry takes office he needs to sign on to the International

Criminal Court. Bush would be there shortly after Kissinger and Ollie N.

[OutsourceBush]

207. amen

[Ladyhawk]

201. As Jon Stewart would say, "The facts have an anti-Bush bias." nt

[doni_georgia]

60. OCTOVER SURPRISE (Surprise, Freepers....you are so OVER!)

When this hits the press tomorrow and gets play tomorrow night on all the talking heads....

....the incompetence of the current administration and the idiocy of their supporters will be obvious and incontrovertible.

Not enough soldiers on the ground to secure this kind of materiel?
Not enough effort made in securing it?
Didn't know what in the hell you were doing?

Nice work, guys, now every family that has lost a son or daughter in a car bombing in Iraq knows where the insurgents got the explosives. And they know YOU TRIED TO HIDE IT from them.


Yo, George, you can run.....but YOU CAN'T HIDE!!!!!

And to those Freepers wanting to smear the NYT... Be honest with yourselves, just once, and admit the truth: this is sheer, unmitigated incompetence. The NYT got the goods. If you can't do better than attacking the messenger, then in my opinion, you are not worthy of being American. You are for yourselves first and second and the hell with everyone and everything else. Accountability is not other people, but all people. Including high-ranking GOP officials.

Mac in Ga

[BattyDem]

99. OCTOVER .... I like that!

:evilgrin:

How can anyone still support this guy after hearing this??? If this doesn't prove how completely incompetent this administration is, I don't know what does! I don't care how die-hard a Republican you are ... at some point, you've just got to say to yourself, "Screw it! This is NOT the best we can do!"

[Comadreja]

107. If the Media ignores or downplays it

the impact will be negligible. I'll predict it will be made to seem much less important than the "Dean Scream" or Janet's boob "flap."

[BeyondGeography]

88. Facts are a terrible thing, Freepers

Especially when they reinforce other facts. Before you know it, all the facts start piling up, and you're looking at another one-term Bush.

[DrBB]

30. The point is they MADE THE IRAQIS LIE TO IAEA about it

That's the real killer part of the story: WE put the gag on the Iraqis about this after the war. Kept 'em from reporting it to the IAEA.

That said--and glad as I am that NYTimes is giving it front page treatment--mein gott but they manage to damage-control it as far as possible (not very far, fortunately). TPM has quotes about this stuff ALREADY being used in the car bombs and roadside bombs killing so many people over there. And the shit about the cover up should be in the subhead and at the top of the article. Instead, you have to read between the lines.

Quite sure we haven't heard the last on this one, though.

[Gman]

32. The Freeper response is to smear the NYT--Moderator removed comment

To: Josh in PA

We need to get on this one fast, people. Start smearing the NYT, smear the reporter, and focus on the WMD angle. This could be bad...reinforces the dem media narrative that we didn't plan the war carefully. We need to silence this, fast! WHERE'S OUR SURPRISE!!??!!??

14 posted on 10/24/2004 9:26:32 PM CDT by johannes89a
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies | Report Abuse >

On refresh... OOPS!!! IT NOW SAYS...

Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1255761/posts

LOL!!!

[Rose Siding]

41. Look at that- at least they owned it...

"...we didn't plan the war carefully"

[johnfunk]

42. I'm not registered at FR - someone should post, RUB IT IN and point out...

... that before RimJob could kick it down the Memory Hole, we got it -- and we know that FReepers intend to smear the Times.

Also, someone should tell them that THIS is just the FIRST October Surprise...

[leesa]

83. Save that comment. In may be useful in a trial.

Which surprise was he talking about??

[Carolab]

137. What total amorality

all they care about is how it "looks". Jesus jumped up Jenny, as my mother always says, we're ALL in danger and they don't even see it, nor do they care about anything except protecting "their" prez. What a despicable lack of social conscience and moral propriety. And these are the people who talk about "personal responsibility"????

[truthpusher]

33. Devestating...

"But the Bush administration would not allow the agency back into the country to verify the status of the stockpile."

[Lorien]

91. AAARRRGGHH!

DAMMIT! All they care about is covering their asses! HOW MANY HAVE DIED SO THEY CAN RETAIN POWER????!!!!

I am FUMING!!!!:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

[goclark]

156. They could not have LIHOP could they?

I mean they knew where the explosives were kept.
We had more troops that could have been sent to guard the explosives.
But instead, BUSH(I hold him fully responsible)

Let

It

Happen

On ?
Purpose ?

How can HE say that they didn't know where they were located?

Why would he have kept it a secret from us?

Why would HE rush to protect the oil fields and not protect this Mega Mess?

If BUSHCONDI were holding on to this just because of the election,that is a PUNISHABLE CRIME.

As they said so clearly in the Watergate era, " What did you know and WHEN did you know it."

Let the hearings begin! Let them begin tomorrow!


:nuke:

[pinniped]

35. The oil infrastucture is more important.

We know what the * priorities were.

Or...

maybe it serves * better knowing that weapons for the Iraqis would readiy be available. After all, we all know * doesn't give a shit about the soldiers. In his puny mind, they are pawns.

[Joseph Ratzinger]

38. read the story

but it did not say when they disappeared -the interim government said they are missing -is the interim government asking for help or complaining?

[Gman]

45. The story says the IAEA knew what was there before Bush ran them off

They wanted back in to go check on the stash but were refused by the DOD.

[Rose Siding]

46. The US had all the IAEA information

and were in control of a facility that we allowed to be looted as late as LAST WEEK.

snip>
The huge facility, called Al Qaqaa, was supposed to be under American military control but is now a no-man's land, still picked over by looters as recently as Saturday.

[Terran]

39. Poor Georgie

Next week is NOT going to be fun for him. Or the week after.

[TexasChick]

73. But it will be damn well great for us! Finally, a sigh of relief! n/t

[milkyway]

48. bush DID hit the trifecta: he's a crook, a liar, and a fuck-up.

[wishlist]

49. They can't blame Clinton, Kerry and Edwards about this fiasco

Just like with 9/11 and the flu vaccine shortage, the evidence is in and Bush has been asleep at the wheel and driving us off a cliff.

[are_we_united_yet]

53. Now, now,

they CAN blame Clinton. It would absolutely be a ridiculous assertion but hey, when has that stopped freeptards?

[Sporadicus]

52. What if * DID Know?

Is it too late for drafting articles of impeachment? Charges of treason?

[steve2470]

54. ok now the Orlando Sentinel knows, n/t

[reprobate]

76. Steve, did you email them? I was about to but if you did, I won't.

Or do you think more is better in this case?

[reprobate]

101. Changed my mind. Here's my LTTE

The NY Times has reported that 380 tons of high explosives, the type of which one pound blew up Pan
Am flight 103, has been looted from a storage facility in Iraq called Al Qaqaa. The administration KNEW about this facility and what was stored there because UN weapons inspectors told them about it and were monitoring it until the administration ordered them out of Iraq.

Then came the invasion. Instead of guarding this very dangerous site, our leaders decided that the Iraq oil ministry was far more important to keep safe, so the people who became insurgents emptied it. This put 760,000 pounds of high explosives in the hands of the people who are killing our sons and daughters.

Do you wonder how the insurgents build the roadside bombs that maim and kill our troops? This administration as much as gave them the means and supplies to put our troops in harms way. Of all the errors and mistakes they made in this "War", this must be the worst because it results in the death of American soldiers.

For shame, Mr. Bush. You who can't think of a single mistake you have made.

[steve2470]

148. sure, email them again....more, I think, is better

n/t

[milkyway]

55. Next on CNN: "Will Scott Peterson take the stand?" No mention of the

story that has put the final nail in the bush presidency. The story has been on the net for 6 hours.

[Rose Siding]

59. Actually, there is a new freeway sniper to cover.

It will be a breathless week.

[AmericanGal]

62. Drudge is saying this story helps Bush!

Drudge on the radio tonight is telling listeners that this story was leaked by the Bush white house to remind people that there are dangers in Iraq and thus we need to keep the President in office. He sees it as something that has been leaked to the newspaper to help the Bush campaign!

Does anyone else here even remotely see the story this way? How on earth could this possibly be bad for Kerry and a good story for Bush?

(be kind--my first post)

[doni_georgia]

65. How this is good for Bu$h

Explosives in the hands of terrorists...

...means more infrastructure that has to be rebuilt. Repeatedly. Which means.....

.... more money for Halliburton and crew.

Welcome to DU!!! God bless you!

Mac in Ga

[Comadreja]

Endless war=endless profit

This stuff will prolong the killing, supply the corporate news with ever more "terrorist atrocities" to report on to scare the bejeezus out of the sheeple and drive them into the arms of the PNAC Mafia. It will be used to justify locking down our troops in garrisons while artillery and aircraft sow death and destrution arbitrarily with less US casualties. The Pentagon could even spin it to justify use of nukes on population centers.

[maddezmom]

68. welcome to DU AmericanGal

and no, I don't see anything the way Drudge does, but perhaps the WH leaked it to get it out before the competition. However, it smells like a coverup and the weapons are being used against our troops, allies and Iraqi's because the * misadministration didn't or wouldn't guard a known arms cache. How's that for a run on sentence????

[Joseph Ratzinger]

70. don't know

but am sure we will see much spin on both sides -O'Donnell will probably have a coronary on MSNBC

[acmavm]

72. Hell no this isn't good for bush*. I bet Drudge hurt himself coming up

with that excuse.

How in the hell does it help bush* by letting us know the real extent of the dangers out there? Danger that we WERE NOT in until Chimpy and the boys decided to play like they were warriors. Fuck that, it doesn't.

"Calling Matt Drudge, Matt Drudge. You room in Hell is ready. It's in the wing reserved for only the biggest delusional liars. You have a room right next to Condi, and across from Donald and Richard. Your hero george is right down the hall."

[milkyway]

75. repugs will use this to justify the invasion to the simple-minded.

"See, we told you they had lots of weapons that could end up in the hands of terrorists!" They will try to blame the IAEA for not destroying the weapons.

This, of course, ignores several large truths:

--the weapons were under control of the IAEA, not Saddam
--bush admin knew they were there; they weren't hidden
--weapons were not in terrorists' hands until bush invaded
--if bush admin knew about these weapons beforehand, why did they not make sure to secure them?
--over a year later, still nothing done
--kept the info from the American public

Thanks for reporting this, and welcome to DU!

[AmericanGal]

87. Drudge looney...

He's now saying that perhaps there is video of Kerry throwing his medals and if it exists it will probably be shown this week...(part of a discussion on possible "October Surprises" for this week)
Sheesh, isn't there video of that in Going Upriver? It was a news event--don't see how that will hurt Kerry. It's a historical event-not a secret.
Drudge is a hoot tonight--constant goofball comments (just like his website)
He was blown away by the current Zogby numbers (but didn't dwell on them). I don't think he wanted to make a big deal as other polls don't match those numbers.

Just thought I'd pass these along--hopefully I'll have more substantial stuff in the future.
Thanks to all those who welcomed me here!

[KoKo]

119. Because they will spin it as "WMD Found." And lie that it's possible they

will be used on us..and make us more afraid, so that we ignore their incompetence and lies. They always get away with it. It probably is the NYT's October Surprise, to allow the RW to spin it to their advantage to hold down the vote by confusing people.

[Chicago Democrat]

129. WELCOME!!!

:party: :party: :party: :party: :party:

[RaleighNCDUer]

132. Bad for Kerry; good for *

Freepers are already saying it -- (not actual quotes, but on these lines) "They can't say there weren't WMDs in Iraq now! Can't steal what wasn't there to begin with!"

They're not thinking that these type of military explosives are held by every government in the world. Should we invade Switzerland? Maybe Great Britain -- we know that terrorists came from there, and there are nukes there as well!

Welcome to DU, AmericanGal

[LynnTheDem]

168. They're NOT WMD; they're NOT PROHIBITED; they were KNOWN

So freepers, spin all the crap you want, but NOBODY BUT YOURSELVES is gonna fall for that shit.

TNT is NOT a "WMD".

These explosives were KNOWN and TAGGED by the IAEA for YEARS.

Sorry silly freeps, but yer still too stoopid for words.

[flygal]

139. I totally saw that this could be a Bush spin....

That there are WMD - all the Freeps will hear is "Iraq has weapons.." "now let's nuke the whole middle east". Trust me, I have relatives who truly only hear the few words and honestly believe we need to just nuke them all - problem solved! It's sad - but I read it between the lines - comes from being around these jerks too much.

[cubsfan forever]

226. You can't reason with freepers n/t

Professor 2

[goclark]

159. Drudge is stoned out of his mind nt

[goclark]

164. Drudge is a finished fool

Welcome to DU!

His brain has been fried by Rush.

I bet the freepers are taking enough pills right now to keep the drug manufacturers in business for a week.

[cubsfan forever]

183. Welcome to DU, AmericanGal!!

Drudge is a cowardly, stupid, lying JERK. He is one of the prime examples of how the "media" covers Commander Bunnypants (Bush):
SPIN, SPIN, SPIN. Ignore the facts. SPIN, SPIN, SPIN.
This is terrible news for Baby Bush, and is why Grudge is so desperately trying to spin things.
Again, Welcome to DU!!

Professor 2

[Homerr]

196. Wow, SPIN!

[teach1st]

61. Looks bad for Bush...

...but how did 380 tons get looted? That's a lot of trucks. Did satillite pick this up?

Could this have been moved before invasion?

[acmavm]

63. Time to haul Rumsfeld out screaming and kicking and put his ass in

chains.

What about the rest of these brain trusts? What about Bremer and Franks and Sanchez? They didn't know what they were sitting on? Especially Franks. He called Dougie Feith the dumbest something or other on the face of the earth, didn't he? Well, I'm not so sure that Franks has much of an I.Q. either.

But back to Rumsfeld. War on the cheap. Good grief. Well, it may have looked like war on the cheap was going to work, but in the long run the cost in destruction in lost lives is going to be might dear indeed. That silly senile son of a bitch needs to be arrested and put in jail for endangering the lives of all the troops we have in the Middle East.

How in the hell did these morans expect to get their hands on, or keep the oil fields if they didn't take care of things like this. THAT MAKES NO FRIGGING SENSE WHATSOEVER. Let 350 tons of explosive materials disappear and still think that they're in control?

Wonder how the families of the service people in Iraq feel right now? If I had a family member over there and I found out about this, I don't know what the hell they'd have to do to keep me from losing my mind.

[goclark]

165. Bring the troops home!

If my baby was over there and I found out about this, I would get my lawyer right now!

I bet more and more troops will refuse to go on missions. How will they know where these explosives could be? Their own government has intentionally put them in harms way. Not the terrorists,but G.W. Bush.

I can see the cases now against the government.

And they were putting trial lawyers down!

[no safe haven]

184. Goclark, I'm with you there

If it were my baby, I'd be on the next plane to Iraq and haul his ass out of there myself. And he knows better than to argue with his mother... :mad:
Despicable, just despicable *.

[Wright Patman]

180. At least 70 percent

of the servicemen are still for *. They would have to be deprogrammed. They have absorbed his benighted soul into their very being. They believe they are on a MISSION FROM GOD!

They are protecting an ungrateful America. That is how they see it. Now we return you back to reality-based programming.

[Hokie]

66. Now that the immensity of this has sunk in I am angry as hell

When I heard this story I was caught up in the somewhat childish first emotion of being happy that this is bad for Bush. Now that I have read the article and thought about it I am extremely sad and angry. These arrogant assholes guarded the Oil Ministry while 380 tons of explosives were looted. Then they covered it up, made up lies, and asked others to lie. How many of the thousand American sons and daughters and innocent Iraqis are dead because these explosives were allowed to be looted. If the fools in the media let this one slide then they are culpable in future deaths.

[milkyway]

78. I felt the same way. When this sinks in with the public, it will have

the same shock to some that F 9/11 did. It will cause them to question everything they believe.

[shraby]

82. This facility was 30 miles SOUTH of Baghdad...

didn't we come in from the south? WHO in the HELL gave the order to bypass it? Enough soldiers SHOULD have been left there to guard it, they KNEW it was there and what it held. This is beyond mind boggling.

edited for tpyo

[BeyondGeography]

96. Good point; we did come in from the South

But we had to secure Baghdad for that photo-op of Sadaam's statue tear-down. And the Oil Ministry, of course...

[A Simple Game]

110. No soldiers were needed!

All they had to do was blow it up! Would have been impressive fireworks!

[debatepro]

69. Clinton should mention tomorrow

might get more press.

[UpInArms]

74. 760,000 one pound bombs -

or even cutting that in half 380,000 two pound bombs

or even cutting that in half 190,000 four pound bombs

or even cutting that in half 95,000 eight pound bombs

oh dear god

what in the world have we unleashed upon this planet

[Chicago Democrat]

128. 760,000 1 pound bombs that can take down a jetliner

Or a Humvee...

We are TOTALLY SCREWED...

SELL DOLLARS.

[lebkuchen]

143. I'm reminded of the 240 Marines killed in Beruit, 1983

6 tons of explosives wrapped around butane gas canisters

[kskiska]

81. A Freeper's Question:

To: icecold

IS this good or bad for Bush?

5 posted on 10/24/2004 7:22:48 PM PDT by tdice7

[UpInArms]

84. clueless, utterly clueless

do they have to pay people to think for them?

How did they learn how to turn a freakin' computer on without a brain in their head?

Then I remember that primates can be taught a number of tricks, together with dogs, cats, rabbits, porpoises (an infinite number of wonderful creatures).

But rocks are just really stupid and I haven't seen any be able to master an on/off switch.

Gotta say - those FRs are as dumb as rocks.

[shraby]

85. Kick this thread

:kick: :kick: :kick:

[Chomskyite]

86. So far the only freeper defenses have been

1) it's an OLD story

2) I'm gonna turn off all mainstream media INCLUDING Fox!

[luaneryder]

175. Deny, deny, deny

Then, lie, lie, lie and cover your ears and eyes and all the bad stuff for * will go away. freepers are truly sheep; no insult to sheep intended.

[BattyDem]

90. Well, as long as the oil ministry is secure ...

I feel perfectly safe! :eyes:

Can't these f*ckups do anything right?!? :mad:


This line says everything we need to know about our great leader and his administration:
"It is unclear whether President Bush was informed."
:wtf:

[candy331]

95. So stopping the weapons inspectors is coming home to roost, hah

The invasion of Iraq has unleashed holy hell, if such a thing.

"United Nations weapons inspectors had monitored the explosives for many years, but White House and Pentagon officials acknowledge that the explosives vanished after the American invasion last year.

[NVMojo]

103. Goss and NV Congressman Jim Gibbons took a quick trip to Iraq

in July of 2003. Don't you think someone should be nailing their asses to the wall about that trip now??


CODEL Goss Visit to Baghdad
WASHINGTON, D.C.—Chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence (HPSCI), Porter Goss (R-FL), Ranking Democrat Jane Harman (D-CA), and Congressmen Jim Gibbons (R-NV) and Robert “Bud” Cramer (D-AL) conducted a 3-day oversight mission focused on
Iraq.
The delegation also held related meetings with U.S. personnel in Cairo, Egypt; Amman, Jordan; and Rome, Italy, to assess support for the US-led coalition’s military action in Iraq, as well as
counterproliferation, counterterrorism, and force protection issues.
On July 10th, the CODEL met Coalition officials in Baghdad to review the efforts underway to determine the status of Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction program and establish security in Iraq following Operation Iraqi Freedom.
Meetings and site visits included Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) Administrator, Ambassador L. Paul Bremer; Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez, commander of Coalition forces in Iraq; Dr. David Kay, Major General Keith Dayton (U.S. Army), and senior staff of the Iraq Survey Group; and operational personnel from across the Intelligence Community.

MORE HERE:

www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/hpsci071503.pdf

[NVMojo]

108. I'm worried this will be taken down. I tried to save the pdf and I can't

and usually you can save them to your hard drive. So don't get made at me but I want everyone to have a chance to read this. It is a public doc...

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: PATRICK MURRAY
July 15, 2003 202/225-4121
OR CHRISTINE HEALEY 202/225-7690

CODEL Goss Visit to Baghdad
WASHINGTON, D.C.—Chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence (HPSCI), Porter Goss (R-FL), Ranking Democrat Jane Harman (D-CA), and Congressmen Jim Gibbons (R-NV) and Robert “Bud” Cramer (D-AL) conducted a 3-day oversight mission focused on Iraq.
The delegation also held related meetings with U.S. personnel in Cairo, Egypt; Amman, Jordan; and Rome, Italy, to assess support for the US-led coalition’s military action in Iraq, as well as
counterproliferation, counterterrorism, and force protection issues.
On July 10th, the CODEL met Coalition officials in Baghdad to review the efforts underway todetermine the status of Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction program and establish security in Iraq following Operation Iraqi Freedom.
Meetings and site visits included Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) Administrator, Ambassador L. Paul Bremer; Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez, commander of Coalition forces in Iraq; Dr. David Kay, Major General Keith Dayton (U.S. Army), and senior staff of the Iraq Survey Group; and operational personnel from across the Intelligence Community.
Upon its return to Washington, the delegation issued the following report:
AMBASSADOR BREMER AND THE COALITION PROVISIONAL AUTHORITY
· The CPA, under Ambassador Bremer’s direction, has a clear strategic plan, which is in fullswing, to rebuild Iraq and help the Iraqi people develop and sustain a free, open and democratic society. The delegation was impressed by reports that a broad cross-section of Iraqis are cooperating with US-led Coalition authorities, notwithstanding the violence being committed by former regime and foreign operatives engaged in insurgency and terrorist acts.
· Ambassador Bremer’s priorities include re-establishing security, restarting Iraq’s economy, and fostering Iraq’s political transformation. In these efforts, the CPA is supported by long repressed Iraqis who understand that Iraq’s future lies in these directions, not in a return to the old regime or a turn towards religious extremism. (page 1)

· The CPA’s goal is a functioning, sovereign Iraqi government that represents all the people of Iraq. The delegation offered its full support for the CPA’s efforts.
BAGHDAD’s SURVIVAL
· While TV images of U.S. strikes on targets in Baghdad might convey the impression that Coalition forces destroyed large swaths of the city, the delegation’s helicopter overflight of Baghdad established that the city’s residential areas, roads, and bridges were largely spared destruction. The city, as a whole, was more adversely affected by the former regime’s multiple decades of economic mismanagement, corruption, and brutality. The looting that followed the end of major combat operations also complicates the rebuilding process.
AMERICAN FORCES IN IRAQ
· U.S. personnel throughout Iraq are performing heroically under extremely austere and dangerous conditions. The constant threat of violence, extreme temperatures, pervasive dust, lack of running water in some places, electricity outages, long separation from families, and communal living arrangements make for a very harsh environment.
· While U.S. personnel occupy a number of the former regime’s sumptuous palaces, these facilities are only minimally functional. Gold-plated plumbing fails to provide sufficient water supply. Multiple chandeliers provide sporadic lighting, a result of aged power infrastructure as well as occasional sabotage activities of insurgent groups.
· Large numbers of U.S. troops are likely to remain in Iraq for years. In the near-term, they will be needed to extinguish an insurgency that threatens reconstruction efforts through acts of
intimidation and sabotage. The possibility that this insurgency is being coordinated by elements of the former regime and/or by foreign elements cannot be ruled out. Furthermore, the presence of insurgent factions makes further Coalition casualties likely.
SECURITY AND SAFETY IN IRAQ
· The Coalition is making good progress in re-establishing security in many parts of Iraq,
especially in the north, south, and west. Nonetheless, the triangle between Baghdad, Tikrit, and Ramadi remains a dangerous, violent region. The majority of attacks on Coalition forces are occurring in that area.
· While other areas in Iraq are relatively secure, political transformation as a whole is being slowed by an atmosphere of fear among ordinary Iraqis that the old regime may yet re-emerge. The delegation concluded that confirming that Saddam and his two sons are dead or otherwise captured and prosecuted for crimes against humanity will significantly enhance the security situation throughout Iraq, as well as assist in determining the status of Iraq’s WMD programs.
THE SEARCH FOR WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION
· Dr. David Kay, General Dayton , the Iraq Survey Group and other dedicated Intelligence Community professionals have now brought an appropriate sense of urgency to the task of determining the status of Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction program and the various
components that made up that capability. (PAGE TWO)

· In carrying out this task, Dr. Kay’s and General Dayton’s team must unravel over two decades of Iraqi-regime efforts to obfuscate and hide its chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons and missile programs.
· The delegation noted that, after 1981, no WMD program in Iraq was initiated without a fully developed denial and deception program to shield the regime’s activities.
· Additionally, based on its discussions with Dr. Kay and General Dayton, the delegation believes that the manner in which Saddam’s regime carried out its WMD program was unlike other state-run WMD programs with which the US Intelligence Community was familiar.
· The dispersed nature of the regime’s WMD activities makes the search now for the remnants of that program that much more complicated to sort out and verify.
· These efforts will also have to overcome the ongoing violence in Iraq, as noted; the uncertainties about the status and whereabouts of Saddam Hussein and his sons; and the intimidation of ordinary Iraqis by former regime officials.
· Dr. Kay and General Dayton reported that the Iraq Survey Group is not lacking for leads related to Iraq’s WMD programs. These leads are being aggressively pursued. Bits of evidence of these programs are slowly emerging. Dr. Kay and General Dayton encouraged the
delegation to be patient in this regard.
· Unraveling the status of Iraq’s WMD program, according to Dr. Kay and General Dayton, will require, among other things, translating and reviewing approximately 7 ½ miles of captured documents believed to relate to various aspects of the regime’s WMD activities. Of
primary importance, it is now focusing on the capture and interrogation of knowledgeable Iraqis involved in such programs.
· Thus far, the evidence emerging on Iraq’s WMD programs does not point to the existence of large stockpiles of chemical or biological weapons. While such stockpiles may eventually be found, Dr. Kay and General Dayton both noted that the Intelligence Community’s assumptions about Iraq’s WMD programs were largely based on fragmentary information collected over the past decade without any particularized insight into that closed society.
· The delegation expressed deep concern that the Intelligence Community’s lack of Arabic speakers and interrogation specialists is hampering its ability to gather intelligence relating to WMD. Despite several years of prodding by the House Intelligence Committee, the Intelligence Community’s failure to add additional Arabic language and interrogation capabilities is now having a seriously negative impact on a matter of utmost national importance.
WHAT’S NEXT
In connection with its continuing review of pre-war intelligence on Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction and ties to terrorism, the Committee intends to hold a public hearing on July 24, 2003. More details to follow. (Page Three)

The focus of the hearing will be on the sufficiency of the intelligence and whether the Intelligence Community had the types of collection capabilities available to provide the right kind of intelligence regarding Iraq.
The witnesses anticipated to testify before the Committee next week likely will include several former Directors of Central Intelligence and individuals familiar with the resource and capability requirements of the Intelligence Community.
The Committee and its staff are in the process of reviewing the 20 volumes of documents provided to the Committee by the DCI regarding the intelligence assessment on Iraq’s WMD program. The DCI has also responded by letter to the Committee’s request of May 22. The DCI has been asked to produce an unclassified version of his response.
The Committee’s staff will also engage in a series of interviews of various Intelligence Community personnel relating to the analytical judgments on Iraq’s WMD program and Iraq’s links to terrorist groups.
In its review of pre-war intelligence, the Committee is intent on ensuring that intelligence provided to policymakers, warfighters, and Congress was and is accurate, unbiased, and timely.
-30-

[NVMojo]

109. more on Gibbons and his trips to Iraq...

He's been there twice now ...and perhaps the explosives were left unguarded to provide "agent provacatuer" weapons for Iraqis to use against each other???

http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1651925&nav=168X1UEb

Rep. Jim Gibbons (R) Nevada; "As far as its evolvement into a free Iraq under democracy, we're very close. We're only arguing about a few small things in their constitution."

So if things are going so well, and the Iraqi people are so content, what's the source of all the bombings and attacks? Gibbons' committee was told that attacks by Saddam loyalists have plummeted, but that outside infiltrators and terrorists have increased their activities, hoping to scuttle the move to democracy with bombs and fear.

Rep. Jim Gibbons (R) Nevada; "They're now targeting innocent Iraqis in their bombings. A Shiite mosque will be bombed one day, a Sunni mosque the next. Everyone points fingers at friction between the two, when in fact, it's outside terrorists."

[almostallhere]

194. ...

"evolvement"???

[tmooses]

104. Are the questions posed by "60 Minutes" going to be on a program..

aired before the election or will they chicken out like they did with the "yellow cake" story?

[rebel_liberal]

106. Kick! NFM

[milkyway]

111. Josh Marshall just posted his take on the NYT article.

The Times story treads lightly over the question of whether the explosives in question have played a substantial role in the various suicide bombings, car bombings and sundry other attacks in Iraq over the last year.

They also say little about Pentagon pressure on the Iraqis not to report the disappearance of the explosives to the IAEA.

In its place seems to be an administration version of events in which no one was put in charge of ascertaining what happened to the al Qa Qaa materials, then Iraqis mentioned it to Bremer in May but he seems not to have passed on word to anyone else, then Condi was told "within the past month" but it's not clear whether she told the president.
<more>

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

Note: The time of the post is 10:37 pm est. This is the time when he began his post, not when he actually updated his site.

[KoKo]

120. Didn't Josh and others say NeoCons going after Bremer to destroy

chances of him getting a "Cabinet" job if Bush wins? I remember a couple of articles saying NeoCons want to blame Iraq mismanagement on Bremmer. Although, guarding this Big Cache was before Bremer took charge. The NYT's article seems to lay blame on Bremer, and they are the Judith Miller/Chalabi outfit who pushed us into Iraq along with WaPo.

[mcg]

112. This puts our soldiers at risk. Bush - all offense and no defense

It also puts innocent Iraqis at risk.

This is terrible and shows Bush's incompetence. This is what Bush does, offend others and while not defending us.

A boxer doesn't win by just going in wildly flailing and dropping his guard. Bush has no sense of strategy. I guess this doesn't concern him much because he's not the one at risk.

[mcg]

192. Actually, it's worse than that.

Now I realize these explosives were looted as far back as a year ago, so they have been already used to kill our soldiers and innocent Iraqis.

Bush is responsible for these deaths.

This is mind-boggling stupidity. Guarding these places should have been top-priority, not the oil. Oil man Bush just didn't care.

[Tight_rope]

113. How many fuck-ups is this now for Bush* and the gang?

[George_S]

116. But, but, Kerry only met with some of the security counsel!

That is much more important than giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

[Stephanie]

118. FYI, here are past articles about looting of Iraqi nuclear sites.

Just some background materials.

If they say looting is STILL going on a year and a half later it is simply incredible.

____________________________________________

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,955413,00.html
Nuclear watchdog fears terrorist dirty bomb after looting at al-Tuwaitha
Wednesday May 14, 2003

United Nations nuclear inspectors, barred from Iraq by Washington, are increasingly worried that the widespread looting and ransacking of Iraq's nuclear facilities may result in terrorists building a radioactive "dirty bomb". The inspectors' concerns are shared internationally and the British government has reportedly offered to raise the matter with Washington to try to get agreement on a return of the UN nuclear inspectors to Iraq.

The main worry revolves around the fate of at least 200 radioactive isotopes which were stored at the sprawling al-Tuwaitha nuclear complex, 15 miles south of Baghdad. It has seen widespread looting, and reports from Baghdad speak of locals making off with barrels of raw uranium and the isotopes which are meant for medical or industrial use.

"If this happened anywhere else there would be national outrage and it would be the highest priority," said a senior source at the UN nuclear watchdog, the Vienna-based International Atomic Energy Agency.

"The radioactive sources, some very potent ones, could get on to the black market and into the hands of terrorists planning dirty-bomb attacks," said Melissa Fleming, an IAEA spokeswoman.

<snip>Experts are muttering that the US, as the occupying power in Iraq, is now technically in breach of the non-proliferation treaty. There is a fear that the occupation, ostensibly to eliminate weapons of mass destruction, could result in more such weapons being created. <more>

____________________________________________

http://power.about.com/library/weekly/aa050503a.htm
Power/Energy
with Andre Titarenko
Iraq Nuclear Sites Looting
Updated May 11, 2003
OUR COMMENT

<snip> Chronologically the first reason to attack Iraq that was provided by the USA Administration was intelligence related to development of the Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) by Saddam Hussein. Another reason was terrorism. There were changes of mind, but none of these reasons was ever dismissed completely. Being formerly involved with nuclear disarmament in another part of the world I had in my mind very clear picture of the USA Marines taking the control of whatever is left out there in the nuclear field after the bombing first hand, maybe even airlifted to do so. They certainly will be armed with detailed roadmaps, satellite pictures, floormaps and guidance, and will keep everyone away from known locations of fusion materials no matter what. Well…

First reports about possible looting of nuclear materials in Iraq dates back to April 11, when an anonymous source told ABC that IAEA seals on the drums with Uranium at Al-Tuwaitha facility near Baghdad, were broken. Drums there contained about 1.8 tons of Uranium (not weapon-grade, but probably fine to build “dirty bomb”). There was a lot of highly active materials other than Uranium there too. The initial looters could be local ( looking to get at least something for their families and homes), but they sure knew what is hidden behind the fence of Al-Tuwaitha. It was bombed not once (for the first time in 1981), and they must have had a lot of “word from mouth” about deadly radiation out there, etc. Only a very brave or a very stupid local guy will go looting there. Even if this happens, a sealed drum with Uranium is not as attractive a looting object as armchair, TV or freezer for an "average guy". If someone targets it, and breaks the seal, most likely he knows perfectly well what he is looking for, and who is the likely buyer for it. If by chance someone has broken the seals on the drums out of stupid curiosity, by now he has probably put pieces together and is looking for a buyer for stolen Uranium.

<snip>Al-Tuwaitha is not the only Iraq nuclear site. Some facilities are in and near Mosul, in the territory that was invaded by Kurds form Northern Iraq. Please bear in mind that the only operational Al-Qaeda training camp in Iraq existed on the territory controlled by Kurds in Northern Iraq, and Kurds were generally OK with neighborhood such as this. Kurds do cooperate with still sparce USA troops in the region, but so far there was no reports available about securing the al-Jazirah enrichment facility near Mosul.<more>


____________________________________________

http://www.msnbc.com/news/912073.asp?0cv=KB10
WMDs for the Taking?
While U.S. troops pushed on to Baghdad, Iraqis were looting radioactive materials from once protected sites

May 19 issue — From the very start, one of the top U.S. priorities in Iraq has been the search for weapons of mass destruction. Weren’t WMDs supposed to be what the war was about? Even so, no one has yet produced conclusive evidence that Iraq was maintaining a nuclear, biological or chemical (NBC) arsenal.

<snip> Some of the lapses are frightening. The well-known Al Tuwaitha Nuclear Research Center, about 12 miles south of Baghdad, had nearly two tons of partially enriched uranium, along with significant quantities of highly radioactive medical and industrial isotopes, when International Atomic Energy Agency officials made their last visit in January. By the time U.S. troops arrived in early April, armed guards were holding off looters—but the Americans only disarmed the guards, Al Tuwaitha department heads told NEWSWEEK. “We told them, ‘This site is out of control. You have to take care of it’,” says Munther Ibrahim, Al Tuwaitha’s head of plasma physics. “The soldiers said, ‘We are a small group. We cannot take control of this site’.” As soon as the Americans left, looters broke in. The staff fled; when they returned, the containment vaults’ seals had been broken, and radioactive material was everywhere.

U.S. officers say the center had already been ransacked before their troops arrived. They didn’t try to stop the looting, says Colonel Madere, because “there was no directive that said do not allow anyone in and out of this place.” Last week American troops finally went back to secure the site. Al Tuwaitha’s scientists still can’t fully assess the damage; some areas are too badly contaminated to inspect. “I saw empty uranium-oxide barrels lying around, and children playing with them,” says Fadil Mohsen Abed, head of the medical-isotopes department. Stainless-steel uranium canisters had been stolen. Some were later found in local markets and in villagers’ homes. “We saw people using them for milking cows and carrying drinking water,” says Ibrahim. The looted materials could not make a nuclear bomb, but IAEA officials worry that terrorists could build plenty of dirty bombs with some of the isotopes that may have gone missing. Last week NEWSWEEK visited a total of eight sites on U.N. weapons-inspection lists. Two were guarded by U.S. troops. Armed looters were swarming through two others. Another was evidently destroyed many years ago. American forces had not yet searched the remaining three.<more>


____________________________________________

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=564&u=/nm/20030521/ts_nm/iraq_un_nuclear_usa_dc_3&printer=1
U.S.: IAEA Team Could Inspect Iraqi Nuke Site
Wed May 21, 3:02 PM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States proposed a joint investigation with the International Atomic Energy Agency of Iraq (news - web sites)'s Tuwaitha nuclear research center after reports of looting and a mission could go in a week or so, a U.S. official said Wednesday.

The Vienna-based IAEA earlier said Washington had offered a limited return of its inspectors to Iraq two months after they left on the eve of the U.S.-led war, but gave few details on the nature of the offer or the timing of a return.

"We are making arrangements with the International Atomic Energy Agency to conduct a joint inspection of the safeguarded storage area near Tuwaitha. Details and timing are not set yet but we're looking to do this as soon as arrangements can be made," said State Department spokesman Richard Boucher.

Asked how quickly a team might go to Iraq, where the IAEA has said a nuclear contamination emergency may be developing because of the reports of looting at Tuwaitha, a senior U.S. official who asked not to be named said "maybe a week." <more>

___________________________________________

http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/w-me/2003/may/21/052108859.html
May 21, 2003 at 6:47:39 PDT
U.S.: Barrels Missing From Iraq Nuke Site

Some 20 percent of the known radioactive materials stored at Iraq's largest nuclear facility are unaccounted for, and U.S. nuclear experts have found radioactive patches on the ground where looters dumped out barrels believed to contain hazardous materials.

However, a senior commander said the great majority of the dangerous waste at the Tuwaitha nuclear complex was still secure and was not leaking radiation.

<snip>The dormant Tuwaitha plant, once considered the heart of Saddam Hussein's nuclear program, has been repeatedly trashed by scavengers. It hasn't been operational for years. The Iraqis had been using it to store declared nuclear materials that were prohibited and sealed by the U.N. nuclear agency.

While the sprawling complex was considered one of the top sites where evidence of weapons of mass destruction might be found, it was left unguarded for days during the war. By the time weapons teams showed up to inspect the facility, so much had been destroyed that it was impossible to know what was missing.

<snip>The IAEA has been sharply critical of the U.S. handling of the site. U.S. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said Tuesday he would be willing to let members of the IAEA back into Iraq to assist them at nuclear sites. He couldn't say when or how the IAEA teams might work there, but said their previous knowledge and expertise would be welcome.

It was the first time U.S. officials have said the IAEA would be able to return to Iraq and was likely to be seen in the arms control community as an acknowledgment that the Americans need help. <more>


____________________________________________

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,960445,00.html
US dirty bomb fears after nuclear looting
Wednesday May 21, 2003

<snip>However, the apparent disappearance of radioactive material from Tuwaitha - the Iraqi nuclear research centre near Baghdad sealed by the UN after the last Gulf war - after looters ransacked its network of bunkers during and immediately after the recent war, has caused alarm at the headquarters of the International Atomic Energy Agency.

Earlier this week, the agency's director, Mohammed El Baradei, said he was "deeply concerned" by the reports from Tuwaitha.

According to some of those reports, uranium was simply emptied on to the ground from metal containers, which were then taken for domestic use, such as milking cows.

IAEA officials are concerned that the uranium could fall into the hands of terrorists who could use it to build a so-called dirty bomb, whereby conventional explosives are used to scatter radioactive nuclear material.

The Pentagon had opposed the return of UN inspectors, believing that they would interfere with its own investigation, but Mr Rumsfeld indicated yesterday that that opposition had been dropped.<more>


____________________________________________

http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/US/topoff_reportcard030516.html
Ready for the Worst?
Sober Lessons Learned From Weeklong Terror Drills

W A S H I N G T O N, May 16— More than 1,000 people would have died of disease in Chicago and untold numbers would have been poisoned by radiation in Seattle had this week's national dress rehearsal for a terror attack been real — and some experts say that shows the United States isn't ready for the real thing.

"I think you can rest assured that this thing wasn't an absolutely flawless execution," Phil Anderson, a senior fellow and director of the Homeland Security Initiative at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, told ABCNEWS.

<snip>In Seattle, hundreds of people would have been injured or sickened after a mock radiological or "dirty" bomb went off. Communications between emergency agencies were pushed to the limit. It took an hour and a half for four surrounding counties to find enough buses to transport residents around the disaster zone and to safety. Despite the delay, Ridge praised the local officials who role-played by setting up an alternative bus network so that residents could move around the community without being exposed to "radioactivity."

The government had trouble quickly putting in place a system that could reliably track the radioactive plume from the supposed dirty bomb.

"We learned that we can get resources in Seattle to the scene," said Ridge, who oversaw the exercise. "But I think we also learned we may need to get them there quicker, and act upon that information quicker.

<snip>"Really we have to get policy makers deciding how they're going to answer some of the big, tough questions," he said. "When do you call in the military, whether you call in the military at all? What is the situation with respect to quarantine? And what impact does that have on the civil liberties of the American people?" <more>

____________________________________________

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021007-8.html

Knowing these realities, America must not ignore the threat gathering against us. Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof -- the smoking gun -- that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud. - G. Bush, 10/7/02

____________________________________________

http://www.sierrasun.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20030718/OPINION/307180301
July 18, 2003
Bush's actions don't match the rhetoric
Guest Column by Kirk Caraway

<snip>Turn back the clock to the before the war. You "know" your enemy has 100-500 tons of chemical weapons, and you know where he is likely hiding them. Wouldn't you try to secure those sites as quickly as possible? After all, these chemical weapons posed a major threat to our advancing troops, and the big danger, they said, was if these fall into the hands of terrorists.

So why wasn't this done? Special Forces teams were flown into Iraq to secure the oil fields, but not the weapons. That speaks volumes about what the real reason for the war is.

And those weapons are still missing. Rumsfeld claims they are doing their best to search all those sites, but this is disconcerting. How many days have his 150,000 soldiers had to search the sites they already know about?

And what about the nukes? If Bush and his people really thought that Iraq had an active nuclear weapons program, why did the military wait for more than a week after taking over the region to even visit the country's main nuclear research facilities at Tuwaitha?

Why did they wait even longer to visit the neighboring Baghdad Nuclear Research Facility? Both sites were heavily looted, so if there were plans for a nuclear bomb or even some weapons-grade material, it would be long gone by now.<more>

____________________________________________

http://www.counterpunch.org/schwarz07172003.html
July 17, 2003
Bush's Pre-emptive Strike Doctrine
The Bane of Non-Proliferation Watchdogs
By MARTIN SCHWARZ

<snip>Bush's use of the specter of nuclear threat to legitimate his intimidation policy can also been seen as just another excuse if reports from occupied post-war Iraq are taken into account. When the reports about massive looting in Iraq's biggest nuclear facility Al-Tuwaitha emerged after the war, the U.S. administration rejected the IAEA's request to send inspectors to that facility for more than a month. El-Baradei didn't even get an answer to his letters to U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell. Meanwhile, strange things must have happened in Al-Tuwaitha: The IAEA in Vienna received several phone calls from U.S. soldiers based at the facility to secure it, who didn't know what to do with nuclear material they had found.<more>

____________________________________________

http://www.abcnews.go.com/wire/World/reuters20030716_192.html
U.N. in Dark About Looted Iraq Dirty Bomb Material
July 16
By Louis Charbonneau

VIENNA (Reuters) - The U.N. nuclear watchdog said Wednesday it had accounted for most of the low-grade uranium lost during looting at Iraq's main nuclear facility, but had no information about more dangerous radioactive material.

<snip>But an IAEA spokeswoman said the agency had not been permitted by U.S. occupation authorities to check the status of Tuwaitha's stocks of highly-radioactive cesium-137, cobalt-160 and other materials which could be used in dirty bombs.

"There were around 400 of these radioactive sources stored at Tuwaitha," IAEA's Melissa Fleming said.

Witnesses have said that villagers near Tuwaitha, especially children, have shown symptoms of radiation sickness.

"Any case of radiation sickness would probably be from these highly-radioactive sources, not from the low-grade natural uranium at Location C," Fleming said.<more>

____________________________________________

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/6068775.htm
Looting of Iraqi nuclear facility indicts U.S. goals
If we feared the loss of radioactive materials, why not guard them?
TRUDY RUBIN
Knight Ridder Newspapers
Posted on Thu, Jun. 12, 2003

TUWAITHA, Iraq - On a dusty road, just outside of Baghdad, lies one of the great mysteries of the Iraq war.

<snip>The administration knew full well what was stored at Tuwaitha. So how is it possible that the U.S. military failed to secure the nuclear facility until weeks after the war started? This left looters free to ransack the barrels, dump their contents, and sell them to villagers for storage.

How is it possible that, according to Iraqi nuclear scientists, looters are still stealing radioactive isotopes?

The Tuwaitha story makes a mockery of the administration's vaunted concern with weapons of mass destruction. The U.S. military hastened to secure the Ministry of Oil in Baghdad from looters. But Iraq's main nuclear facility was apparently not important enough to get similar protection.

<snip>And why, in facilities other than Location C, is the looting apparently continuing?

Hisham Abdel Malik, a Iraqi nuclear scientist who lives near Tuwaitha and has been inside the complex, told me that in buildings "where there are radioactive isotopes, there is looting every day." He says the isotopes, which are in bright silver containers, "are sold in the black market or kept in homes." According to IAEA spokeswoman Melissa Fleming, such radioactive sources can kill on contact or pollute whole neighborhoods.

How could an administration that had hyped the danger of Saddam handing off nuclear materials to terrorists let Tuwaitha be looted? Maybe the hype was just hype ... or maybe the Pentagon didn't send enough troops to Iraq to do the job right.

Either answer is damning.<more>

_____________________________________________

http://www.sierrasun.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20030718/OPINION/307180301
July 18, 2003
Bush's actions don't match the rhetoric
Guest Column by Kirk Caraway

<snip>Turn back the clock to the before the war. You "know" your enemy has 100-500 tons of chemical weapons, and you know where he is likely hiding them. Wouldn't you try to secure those sites as quickly as possible? After all, these chemical weapons posed a major threat to our advancing troops, and the big danger, they said, was if these fall into the hands of terrorists.

So why wasn't this done? Special Forces teams were flown into Iraq to secure the oil fields, but not the weapons. That speaks volumes about what the real reason for the war is.

And those weapons are still missing. Rumsfeld claims they are doing their best to search all those sites, but this is disconcerting. How many days have his 150,000 soldiers had to search the sites they already know about?

And what about the nukes? If Bush and his people really thought that Iraq had an active nuclear weapons program, why did the military wait for more than a week after taking over the region to even visit the country's main nuclear research facilities at Tuwaitha?

Why did they wait even longer to visit the neighboring Baghdad Nuclear Research Facility? Both sites were heavily looted, so if there were plans for a nuclear bomb or even some weapons-grade material, it would be long gone by now.<more>

_____________________________________________

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12239,1056483,00.html
Saddam's nuclear arsenal? A scattering of yellow powder
Villagers sell deadly uranium to the US army at $3 a barrel
Patrick Graham in Al Mansia
Sunday October 5, 2003
The Observer

Dhia Ali makes a throwing motion as he tells how he dumped out the blue barrels of powder. The nine-year-old and his brother, Hussein, weren't looking for weapons of mass destruction when they went into the low brown buildings, known to UN weapons inspectors as Location C, near his home last April. They just wanted the blue barrels.

The yellow cake powder they poured out and breathed into their lungs - a form of natural uranium - was part of the nuclear programme which, the Iraq Survey Group's recent report claims, somewhat vaguely, was being restarted before the last war. The report won't do much for Dhia or Hussein - they haven't even been examined by a doctor yet.

<snip>The report's claim that Iraq was revamping its nuclear programme in such a way that it could constitute any serious threat was described as 'ridiculous' by the scientist. By 1991, when the he left the programme, Iraq had succeeded in producing no more than one kilogram of enriched uranium - 6 to 14 kgs short of a bomb. By 1997, the programme had been exposed and most of its capabilities destroyed. <more>

_____________________________________________

[Technowitch]

122. But they guarded the Oil Ministry

Shows PRECISELY the motivations of the Bush administration.

Bastards.

[BUSHOUT]

124. Why is this site saying that the WH knew for "over a year"???????

If it's true it's great, but I didn't read that part in the NYT story.
See here:
http://www.btcnews.com/btcnews/archives/00000767.html

He says:

The Pentagon and the White House have known about this for at least a year.

Anyone know wazzup with that? True, or not?

[BUSHOUT]

131. Found my own answer.........................................

From story:

weapons inspectors had monitored the explosives for many years, but White House and Pentagon officials acknowledge that the explosives vanished after the U.S. invasion last year.

[NVMojo]

134. yep, that is what the Nevada repukes have been saying since Spring...

[jsquared]

140. Kerry referred to poor guarding of nuclear facilities and munitions in one

of the debates. It seems like he must have some supporters somewhere (UN, DOD, CIA?) who may have tipped him off earlier, as well as set the timing of this disclosure to his best possible advantage. It sounds like "The Nelson Report" first released the story. Who are they?

[BUSHOUT]

125. The Reuters story on it is pretty lame....make it sound like "Iraq" lost

the stuff, not DOD and Bush.

They also mention that Condoleza piece of info...which just confuses the story. That's a defelction attempt by the Bush admin....make it sound like NOBODY knew about it until a month ago.

[Dem2theMax]

126. Talk about stunned!

I wonder if anyone in the WH cares one iota about the lives of ANY human beings (other than their own.) One can only hope that people will now wake up and see that the only thing this pResident and his ugly henchmen worship is the almighty dollar. God is NOT hanging out in THIS White House, let alone talking directly to *.

Had to read the freeper link. Get this one:

To: Trippin

If this were a devastating story to the Bush campaign, Rove would have leaked it months ago.

This is a snoozer.. Expect the Dims to have egg on there face by tomorrow night.

48 posted on 10/24/2004 7:34:08 PM PDT by Josh in PA



Oooops, partial truth came out of a freepers keyboard! The 'Rove would have leaked it part.'

[tlcandie]

130. Does this include any Red Mercury?

[NVMojo]

136. NV Congressman in Iraq in Feb. 04 ....

I don't think he is the only one who has been over there since we invaded Iraq, but people like this should have to answer to the American public about the missing weapons supply ....

http://wwwc.house.gov/gibbons/display-ht.asp?id=10


Exploring Intelligence Efforts and Ongoing Military Actions in Iraq
2/25/2004


The Real Threat Iraq Posed:

As a member of the House Permanent Select Intelligence Committee, I recently returned from my second congressional delegation trip to Iraq to explore U.S. intelligence efforts and ongoing military actions.
Recently, much debate has occurred over Iraq’s Weapons of Mass Destruction programs and the fact that large stockpiles of WMD have not yet been found by the U.S.-led Iraqi Survey Group. However, I maintain that our search is far from over and although we may not find large stockpiles of WMD – perhaps it was destroyed or moved to another country—removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq was the right thing to do.

more

[opihimoimoi]

141. OH What the Hell, its only 380 lbs of the stuff, not enough to put in a PU

Truck... if it was 380 tons, that be a whole new thing... like why wasn't it guarded?

and who is to blame, ?? those prison guards? Rummy? Wolfowitz? Mongo?

[truthisfreedom]

150. 380 tons. 760,000 pounds. three quarters of a million pounds of very

high explosive. one pound of this stuff took down PanAm 103 over Scotland. think of it this way... over the next 1000 years, they can take down 1000 planes per year.

bush fucked us.

[NickB79]

146. If red mercury even exists

(Which is still a point of contention) from what I've read of the supposed effects of red mercury, even a few pounds of that stuff would be unbelievably dangerous. I recall seeing a program on Discover Channel about it, how the Soviets developed it but no lab has ever gotten a verified sample of it to prove it's existance. It stated a small bomb the size of a softball placed at the gates of the White House would irradiate everything within 500 yds, functioning as a mini-neutron bomb. Anyone within the White House would recieve a lethal, untreatable dose of radiation and be dead within days.

But like I said, no one's ever seen the stuff, and I doubt Saddam of all people would have something so rare when he didn't even have basic chemical weapons when we invaded.

[Dem2theMax]

142. Would someone be so kind as to PM the full article in the NY Times

to me? Bugmenot.com has a bum log-in right now and I'd really like to read the entire article. To anyone who can do so, THANK YOU!

[UpInArms]

151. check your mail

:hi:

[Dem2theMax]

166. Thank you UpInArms!

I really appreciate it! :hug:

[steve2470]

152. how do we make sure this gets "on" all the media ?

tia, eom

[muchacho]

153. Look to Rove

I think the is the Oct surprise. Yes it is under Bush's watch but the fear it feeds works to the advantage of the fascists.

[steve2470]

154. cnn has it now

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/25/iraq.explosives.ap/index.html

[wolfgirl]

155. Of course Condi knew about this...

but she is needed on the campaign trail....shades of August 2001. they knew and did nothing.

[steve2470]

157. drudge has it now

n/t

[SSX]

163. cruised the news

Have seen blurbs on CNN, Imus, and BBC news. CNN is about to report more on this "developing story" So far the gist of the reports have been the explosives are missing, we don't know how they disappeared, and they could be used to make a really big bomb. No one has asked the really big questions yet. No mention of cover-up.

[maddezmom]

178. CNN about to cover how the missing explosives could be effecting our

troops from the Pentagon. THis will be interesting to see.....

[steve2470]

158. chicago tribune has it now

n/t

[steve2470]

160. l.a. times does not have this yet

just checked latimes.com

[steve2470]

161. miami herald has it

n/t

[steve2470]

162. orlando sentinel does not have this yet

just checked the URL

[JNelson6563]

167. Rate it on Yahoo

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041025/ap_on_re_mi_ea/nuclear_agency_iraq&cid=540&ncid=716

[Jose Diablo]

169. 380 tons????? Tons?

What would be the volume of 380 tons of HMX/RDX?

Think about this for a minute, 380 tons is not an amount you can place in a backpack and walk away with.

No, it would take many very large trucks. How many C130's would it take to haul 380 tons of explosives?

It was not terrorists that snagged this material. Not unless we consider our very own clandestine forces 'terrorists'.

This 380 tons of high explosives is now someplace 'safe' controlled by forces under control of our own security forces, but it is unaccounted for. Thus, for an activity that would need a large quantity of explosives, there now would not exist a trail to follow to obtain the needed material.

I think the 'terrorists' behind this 'theft' will be home-grown, members of our very own clandestine forces. Maybe the corporate police force being groomed to enforce the will of corporations over governments is behind this theft. Should governments decide the corporations do not represent the best interests of people, that the government should represent "we the people", well the corporations may say 'tough titty'.

In the end it is about force and the application of violence to enforce will. Notwithstanding some peoples desire to see a just world, and link arms together singing songs of peace, love and the brotherhood of men. The world just isn't that way.

A professional mercenary military is really very bad for a democratic representative form of government. In fact, mercenary militaries then become a force in of and for themselves, beyond control by any government. This is why the founders of our country had a deep distrust and hatred for mercenaries and insisted our country depend on militaries that needed civilians pressed for temporary times of service. It is easy for professional armies to work for their own benefit and not be under any form of civilian control.

We may not like it, but it does matter who has the guns.

[Rose Siding]

190. I wondered about volume too

It must have been split up. I'd be very suspicious of any claim of full recovery. It could be all over the ME by now; it could be all over the world.

[Blue_Tires]

199. how long would it take to truck away 380 tons??

and then where would you take it?? not very easy to hide

[maddezmom]

170. BBC's got it ~ different spin IAEA is informing UN Security Council

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3950493.stm

[steve2470]

172. wdbo-am has it, but coverup not mentioned

boy i'm surprised <sarcasm>

[steve2470]

173. headline news/cnn has it, no mention of coverup

tampa tribune has it
tallahassee democrat has it
st. pete times has it
pensacola news-journal has it, but not on front page
jacksonville times-union has it
fort lauderdale sun-sentinel has it
palm beach post has it, but not on front page
florida today (melbourne) has it
in general, no specific mention of coverup although implied

[freestyle]

174. Maybe Cheney wasn't speculating, but announcing.

Loose explosives that can be used as triggers for nuclear weapons, plus loose nuclear weapons and material from the former Soviet Union, plus unemployed scientists, plus uninspected cargo ships equals horror. If anyone has read some Tom Clancy books, you recognized 9-11 as Red Storm Rising. The Bush junta has now set us up for The Sum of All Fears. Damn them all. May the traitorous bastards rot in hell.

[nolabels]

182. Sadam hid em all in his shorts

Surfs up baby!


http://yorick.infinitejest.org:81/1/cards.html

http://www.bushnetwork.com/index2.php

[vs the introvore]

218. is that a 1983 topps wade boggs card you got there?

sweet.
go bosox.

[Maestro]

185. I can hear the freepers now

"But wait, that effin Kerry didn't meet on the Security Council as he said he did and he forgot Poland!"

This is just pathetic. No wonder all the extremists in Iraq are well armed while * sent in troops without enough armor and other needed equipment. Oh and Usama bin Forgotten is still in Pakistan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[milkyway]

188. Check out Juan Cole's comments on this.

http://juancole.com/

<snip>
Only two weeks ago, The International Atomic Energy Commission reported that not only had dual-use equipment been stripped from an old Iraq nuclear weapons facility, but even the buildings had been stripped and dismantled. Muhammad al-Baradei said that some of the nuclear material stolen from facilities in Iraq has already begun showing up in other countries. But the dual-use equipment, which has applications in nuclear weapons construction, has disappeared. (Hmm. I wonder which neighbor of Iraq might be desperately at work on a nuclear bomb and might be willing to pay top dollar for such equipment?) How bad a job Bush is doing is clear when we consider that we might well be relieved to know that this equipment went to Iran, since that means Bin Laden doesn't have it.

So let me ask this again. Bush is making us safer? The American public trusts him to fight terror more effectively than Kerry? On what record? Bush appears to have all but just called up Usamah and Khamenei and told them where Saddam's old stuff was in case they needed it for their programs. And he politely made sure that no pesky US troops would be around to impede their access.
<more>

[MileHiStealth]

191. From the Rocky Mountain News

Latest news
Bush: I'm best candidate to protect U.S.
Tons of explosives missing in Iraq
Schilling pitches Red Sox to Game 2 win
Security for Internet users deemed weak
Iraq suspects infiltrators in massacre
FBI: Violent crime off 3 percent in 2003
14 Palestinians killed in Israeli raid
Did 'SNL' gaffe expose Simpson vocal aid?
Stocks fall on rising oil, weak dollar
Hendrick Motorsports plane crash kills 10

MORE HEADLINES FROM THE AP »


Bush's "I'm best candidate to protect U.S." link ABOVE
"Tons of explosives missing in Iraq"

Ironic choice of priorities ...

[PBX9501]

197. Information

RDX and HMX are common explosives. You can buy them in the us with a license. RDX is used in C4 in a plastic form.

http://www.beston.com/Products.aspx

HMX is HighMeltingpointeXplosive and has a "yield" around 20 to 30 percent greater than tnt, per weight (c4 is similar). There are lots of comparison methods on explosives so I'm estimating. Nuclear weapons use explosives as a lens to focus energy. Early bombs used rdx and tnt, later hmx was used because it has a higher melting point.

Loosing that much explosive is stupid but the chemicals are not magical and do not pose more or less of a threat than the contents of an unfired 155mm artillery shell.

[gatlingforme]

200. Thanks for the info, but you did not mention that this is military grade

explosives........ so your point is wrong.

[PBX9501]

203. Military grade is a magic word..

Explosives are generally classified by their characteristics vs TNT. That is the "baseline" for comparison. There is not just one comparison point to look at so I will estimate them both to be 20 - 30 percent more powerful than tnt.

Grades are usually determined by other agents mixed in. Waxes etc. A military grade explosive is determined to be military grade by a chemical standard composition declared by the military. Similar to an ANSI type document you may be familiar with. My exposure is not millitary but that is my understanding. In a past life worked with and around it for a defense contractor.

If you purchase commercial C4 it is military grade in most cases.

You are making my point.

edit spell

[Homerr]

204. NPR is reporting this is "high-grade" used for nuclear weapons, etc.

Probably not all of it(?), but they did use "high-grade" and talked about it as being moldable such as for instituting the explosion that detonates fissile material.

[PBX9501]

206. The Press murders technical stuff..

High grade is not in the "technical language" for explosives. It releases more energy than an equivalent amount of TNT.

Our older nukes use a blend of RDX and TNT to create an explosive compression wave (loosely) and squash a sphere to make it reach critical mass. Later nukes used HTX blends. The technology to accomplish this is far more complex than just explosives.

HTX has a very high melting point and can be further stabilized by blending it with other compounds. This makes it useful in things that are exposed to heat.

RDX and HTX have similar properties like detonation velocity. Both are available for purchase in the Unites States.

[Endangered Specie]

202. In other words a one-third kiloton bomb.

[yellowcanine]

208. "It is unclear whether President Bush was informed." Not unclear to me.

He was informed all right but did he listen and did he care?

OTOH, using "informed" as a noun, well no, he is not informed.

[George_S]

210. Nail in coffin kick

[maddezmom]

214. make that another nail n/t

[Zerex71]

216. If they turn up in the US, it'll be the October Surprise

[Zerex71]

217. Let's recap, shall we?

Iraqi history and art museums? Unprotected. Result: Looting, theft and destruction.
Weapons depot? Unprotected. Result: 380 tons of explosives missing.
Iraqi Oil Ministry? Guarded like crazy.

Nice to see where the United States' priorities lie.

[nolabels]

221. Here's your tradin card

http://yorick.infinitejest.org:81/1/cards.html

[Sinnerman]

220. Haliburton

[thenumberone]

224. thats actualy a small portion of the total suply

[pinniped]

225. CBS quotes asshole* as saying he wants to get to the bottom of this.

As usual, the wh morans pretend they were in the dark.

[cfuhrmanfly]

227. RDX angle may change line of probe

Wednesday, 27 August , 2003, 22:15

Mumbai: Traces of RDX in the remnants of twin explosions of August 25 in the city has baffled the Mumbai police and is expected to change the line of investigation, a top police officer said here today.


A forensic laboratory here confirmed the use of RDX in the blasts while police said that they were awaiting reports.

The use of RDX in the explosions indicated a high risk to the city and significant shift in the strategy of terrorist outfits in carrying out subversive activities, joint commissioner of police Satyapal Singh told reporters.

"If the use of RDX is confirmed in the recent blast then it would have different implications in the probe," he said adding the high intensity explosives were used this time only after the serial bomb blasts in 1993.

Singh said though they had not recieved the forensic report so far but were confident of the use of high explosives going by the intensity of the blast.

The police official said the line of investigation will be more focussed after the foresic report confirming the use of RDX. This indicated the change in strategy of terrorists in carrying out their operations.

It also strengthened the theory of use of sophisticated explosives and trained persons by terrorists to carry out the job and a high probability of the storage of RDX, he added.

Singh further said three separate teams of state forensic science, central forensic science laboratory in Chandigarh and the post-blast investigation team of the National Security Guard (NSG) are testing the samples of the explosives used in the blast.

<http://sify.com/news/othernews/fullstory.php?id=13235486&vsv=574>

[PBX9501]

229. semtex and c4 both contain RDX. It is very common..(nt)

[cfuhrmanfly]

228. IANS GUWAHATI: Indian security forces were put on high alert

in the northeastern state of Meghalaya after security forces seized a huge quantity of lethal plastic explosives from a rebel hideout, officials said on Wednesday.

A police spokesman said a team of commandos raided a house at Tikrikilla village in West Garo Hill district of Meghalaya late Tuesday and recovered five kg of RDX and a large number of gelatine sticks.

"We were very fortunate to have seized the explosives before they could be used for terror strikes on the lines of what is happening in the adjoining states of Assam and Nagaland," Meghalaya Police chief L. Sailo told IANS on telephone.

"Had they been used, the damage could have been disastrous."

Sailo said the explosive consignment was seized from militants of the National Democratic Front of Bodoland (NDFB), a rebel group in Assam blamed for a string of bloody shootings over the weekend.

The village from where the explosives were seized borders Assam.

more...<http://www.newindpress.com/NewsItems.asp?ID=IEL20041006135229&Page=L&Title=B+R+E+A+K+I+N+G++++N+E+W+S&Topic=0&>

[fortyfeetunder]

230. On the flip side, this is *'s salvation!

* is probably going to use the loss of the 380 tons of explosives as a reason for him to stay on. So he can find the explosives, just like he found Bin Laden...and keep us Murkans safe from terraism...

[cfuhrmanfly]

231. Militants kill NC worker, 3 kg RDX seized

Srinagar, March 25
Two persons were killed and a child was injured while security forces busted two hideouts of militants and seized a large cache of arms and ammunition including RDX in the Jammu and Kashmir in during the past 24 hours.

Security forces arrested three militants of the Pakistan based Lashkar-e-Toiba along with two AK rifles and one wireless set at Donadi area in Kishtwar today.

Militants shot dead Ghulam Mohiuddin, a contractor, near Jamia Masjid Pulwama today.

A boy Zubair Ahmad was killed and another boy injured in a blast at Nareian Hari Budha in Poonch district of Jammu region last night. The injured were hospitalised.

Troops in a search unearthed a hideout and recovered three kg of RDX, six grenades, one wireless set, one mine with fuse, three electric detonators, one AK magazine, six pencil cells and 32 AK ammunition rounds, he added.

Security forces and the police in a joint operation busted a hideout at Kulgam and seized two AK magazines and 32 rounds today while six RDX sticks, five grenades, two detonators, two magazines and 20 rounds of ammunition were recovered at Mendhar last night.

Militants today shot dead a National Conference worker in the Shopian area of Pulwama district in south Kashmir, official sources said.

He was identified as Ghulam Mohiuddin Dar, a contractor by profession.

Dar was fired at from point blank range causing serious injuries to him. He was rushed to a hospital where he succumbed to the wounds.

Civilian identified as Ghulam Mohiuddin Khan was injured when he was caught in a crossfire between militant and police at Sonabrari in Kokernag area of Anantnag district in south Kashmir this afternoon.

Six persons, including two militants and two soldiers were killed while security forces busted two hideouts and seized a large cache of arms and ammunition including RDX in Jammu and Kashmir in the past 24 hours.

Official sources said an encounter took place at Sonabrari-Kokernag in South Kashmir district of Anantnag this afternoon. Sources said so far two militants and two soldiers had been killed and a civilian injured. — UNI, PTI
<http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20040326/j&k.htm#1>

[Norquist Nemesis]

232. Every time I see this incompetence and those who STILL

connect 9/11 then give props to Bush for fighting them over there, all I can think of is this: It only took 17 people to kill 3,000+ on our soil.

So, while we're looking 'over there', we've not only assisted in arming them, we're so busy keeping our attention 'over there' that we're not paying attention to HERE! DAMMIT!!!

[ava27]

234. I can't read the posts

I got so excited reading this story that I had a little accident. Now there's something all over the computer screen.

This is great though. Bush is so toast. Toast is great with Heinz ketchup on it. One more week til President Kerry.

[steve2470]

235. Aaron Brown on CNN Newsnight to discuss facts, politics 2nite

10 PM to 11 PM.
edited for accuracy

[steve2470]

236. Cheney tried to spin this but Paula Zahn raised the issue

CNN is on this story.

[steve2470]

237. the former spokesman for the CPA is trying to spin this for

Bush. He is claiming that the NY Times story is falling apart.

[joefromcanada]

239. October Surprise?

Could the explosives end up found in america, then repugs postponing the election till all the terrorists are caught?
They wouldn't do that would they just to hold onto power?

[Carolab]

240. Gasp

That exact thought entered my mind as well. I wouldn't put it past them. All that separates us from martial law is one red alert.

[Dcitizen]

241. CBS is abused target

Should we do anything?