Fear itself: Most people can get along just fine without a flu shot (??)

[Judi Lynn]

Fear itself: Most people can get along just fine without a flu shot




By Joseph B. Verrengia
ASSOCIATED PRESS
11:48 a.m. October 25, 2004

DENVER – Public health officials say Americans should roll up their sleeves for a dose of reality: For most of us, getting a flu shot is not a life-or-death matter.

The flu vaccine will not necessarily prevent you from experiencing the flu's miserable symptoms, like fever, hacking cough, runny nose and "hit-by-a-truck" body aches. Studies have shown that the shot generally works about 52 percent of the time.

If you are elderly or chronically ill, the vaccine can help jump-start your body's weakened defenses and perhaps prevent the worst from happening if you do catch the virus.

But the millions of people who are younger and healthier do not really need it – especially during a vaccine shortage, public health officials say.
(snip/...)

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/health/20041025-1148-flu-realitycheck.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What administration could use some slack from last week's charges it dropped the ball on the flu vaccine supply?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Gov seeks federal OK to buy flu vaccine from Europe
October 25, 2004

BY LYNN SWEET Sun-Times Washington Bureau Chief

Days before a presidential election where a flu vaccine shortage is an issue, Gov. Blagojevich today will seek federal permission to import 30,000 doses from Europe for Illinois nursing home residents.

The FDA is likely to reject the Blagojevich request in the latest chapter of an ongoing struggle between Illinois and the Bush administration that is part of the national debate over importing prescription drugs from other countries.

Ten days ago, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration said the government was contacting every vaccine maker in the world for additional supplies, but did not not want to create "false hope'' while exploring "every option.''

On Sunday, a spokesman for the FDA who did not want his name used said the agency had not received the letter from Blagojevich, echoing the earlier statement.
(snip/...)

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-flu25.html

[priller]

1. But this is true

I agree that most people don't need flu vaccines.

[sandnsea]

4. But that's not the point

There's not enough for the people who DO need the flu vaccine. And if we were a sane country, we'd at least realize preventing flu helps productivity. Penny wise, pound foolish.

[VegasWolf]

20. I totally agree! There is not enough vaccine for those that do need it.

This is really poor management by Tommy Thompson. This
cycle occurs every year, shouldn't there be procedures
in place to fix the problem rather than be surprised at
the end of the cycle. Total incompetence.

New Information Shows Bush Indecisive, Paranoid, Delusional

[Ladybast]

15. How to immunize your loved ones against flu with homeoopathy

With the growing panic, I don't think I can stay silent any longer. I'm a practicing homeopath in Northern California. For more than a century my profession has used homeopathic remedies based upon the symptom picture of diseases to immunize folks against a feared or actual epidemic, with preventative results as least as strong as conventional vaccination with no side effects. Homeopathic remedies also boost the immune system generally, and people treated to resist one disease benefit short term with stronger resistance overall.

As with convential immunizations, most are protected against the disease, but others simply get milder, non-dangerous symptoms without secondary infections.

Although there are several remedies which can be used, the remedy Oscillococcinum (widely and cheaply available at drugstores) is probably best to use, as its symptom picture most closely matches the non-complicated picture of someone in the early stages of flu.

You can read an abstract of a scientific study of seven different clinical studies using Oscillococcinum as prophylaxis against influenza:

http://www.update-software.com/abstracts/AB001957.htm

The protocol for flu prevention is for each person to take one pill, pellet or tablet of Oscillococcinum (however your package supplies it) monthly during the flu season. They are taken differently than regular pills--with homeopathic tablets, dissolve under the tongue and wait to swallow until completely dissolved. If a family member comes down with the illness anyway, the dosage should be continued to lessen the duration and intensity.

No side effects or other complications. Offered for your consideration and reflection.

[K8-EEE]

21. Thank You For THIS!!

Love it...very interesting. I distrust vaccines in general -- never have gotten a flu shot,although I'm healthy and not high risk anyhow.

[BuddhaGirl]

23. thank you for posting this!

I have used Oscillo with good success. I have turned many people on to it as well. This stuff really works!

People should also keep their immune sysems healthy through the cold and flu season with Vit. C, zinc, eldeberry, etc.

[Amigust]

24. Any favorite online suppliers of Oscillo?

[Ladybast]

25. Boiron is a trustworthy manufacturer

and probably you've seen their packages in drugstores. Here is a good purchase link:

http://www.ritecare.com/homeopathic/guide_oscillococcinum.asp

[Amigust]

27. Thanks !

[NickB79]

34. Enjoy your placebo

I found this link quite interesting with regard to the concentration of "active" ingredients.

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/homeo.html

[Iceburg]

36. I would NOT call this an endorsement..... far from it...

From the article you cited:
"Main results: Seven studies were included in the review, three prevention trials (n = 2265) and four treatment trials (n = 1194). Only for two studies was there sufficient information to complete data extraction fully. There was "no" evidence that homoeopathic treatment can prevent influenza-like syndrome (relative risk 0.64, 95% confidence interval 0.28 to 1.43). Oscillococcinum treatment reduced length of influenza illness by 0.28 days (95% confidence interval 0.50 to 0.06). Oscillococcinum also increased the chance of a patient considering treatment effective (relative risk 1.08; 95% CI 1.17, 1)."

The data does NOT support your claims

Bottom line ...2 un-named studies that report a very small placebo effect.

Save your money

[htuttle]

2. MOST people can safely drive without seatbelts, too

Statistically speaking, most people never need their seatbelts, so why bother to use them!

[northzax]

8. er, not really a good comparison

you are correct that most people don't need seatbelts most of the time, unless you get into an accident, and then seatbelts dramatically increase EVERYONE'S chance of survival. For most people, the Flu is, honestly, a one to two week painful occurence, but not life threatening. It sucks to get it, we all know that, but unless you are in one of the targeted populations (the very young, old or immunosuppressed) it's probably not actually going to kill you. The Flu shot does not do much to mortality rates for otherwise healthy adults, since the Flu doesn't actually kill that many people in that demographic.

your comparison equates seatbelt use when there is no accident to not getting a flu shot, when there is no exposue to flu. The fact remains that you should assume there is an accident coming, and assume you will be exposed to the flu. as an otherwise healthy 30 year old male, I would rather risk getting the flu, sans shot, that getting into a headon collisson sans seat belt, my odds of surviving the flu without long term injury are much greater.

[Bridget Burke]

17. Babies can survive car crashes without those car seats.

Of course, many of the unprotected kids will die or be badly injured.

But I'm not a baby & don't have one. So why should I care?

[sandnsea]

3. 51,000 die per year

So in years past people ignored getting flu shots and people died. So now that we don't have enough flu shots, the solution is to keep ignoring the fact that flu kills people. :crazy:

[flamingyouth]

5. I'm going to Canada to get mine next week

I have asthma and my doctor says I need to get one. However, there won't be any available here until January. And I work in retail, so I'm going to need it right away.

[displacedtexan]

6. It's only 34,000 deaths per year, even with the flu shot.

What's the big deal, people?

Have you forgotten?

9/11 TERROR 9/11 TERROR 9/11 TERROR

9/11 TERROR 9/11 TERROR 9/11 TERROR

9/11 TERROR 9/11 TERROR 9/11 TERROR

[booksenkatz]

7. When/where has anyone said otherwise??

It's common knowledge, is it not, that healthy and/or young people will be fine without a vaccination. BUT THE VACCINE IS NOT GETTING TO THOSE OF US WHO DO NEED IT. In Michigan, the nursing homes and some (not all) pediatricians are getting what little vaccine is coming into our state. But those with chronic conditions, weak immune systems, and asthmatics (such as myself) are up shit creek. The official line we are told by our health department is WASH YOUR HANDS. Now that is a terrific public health policy, isn't it?

This article offers no new information. But thanks for posting, JudiLyn, because it just shows the continuing effort to tell asthmatics to SHUT THE F*CK UP! Our wheezing and chest rattling is bothering the folks upstairs.

[Judi Lynn]

22. Bush's failure to secure adequate supplies of the vaccine

got a lot of people wild only last week. It was a hot topic, and a lot of people were very angry.

The very next working day we discover the government has released this story as a matter of public information. They're saying it really isn't that big a deal. What they mean is, as you say, "Shut the #### up, pay taxes, get out of the way."

[Almost_there]

9. Does anyone die from getting the flu shot?

I've heard that some people can get the actual live flu from getting the shot. Certainly these 35 year old yuppies, football & basketball players should be the last ones in line. If a football player misses a game because he's got the flu, I won't feel the least bit guilty if it saves a 70 year old person from dying because they got the flu and weren't athletes, or healthy politicians (I think Clinton and Cheney are both fine to get the shot, they have medical issues), its madness to create an elite list of people (other than health workers themselves) who can get the shot ahead of the infirm, elderly or children.

~Almost

[TO Kid]

12. Possibly, but not what you think

The flu shot does not contain live virus so it won't give you the flu. Some people do have adverse reactions to the shot, though (there's a long-running controversy about it).

[Divernan]

10. I get it! Only GIRLIE MEN (LIKE CHENEY) get flu shots!

But mainly of course, the GOP point is that prevention is not profitable business for Big Pharmaceutical backers of Bush. It's the treatment of flu with all those cold pills/cough meds/antibiotics, etc. that pile those profits up! Shall we start skipping the childhood innoculations too? What about the shots for our troops going overseas? I mean, malaria won't KILL you for gods sake!

[Kimber Scott]

11. I never get one, anymore. There's a 50% chance you'll get the flu with

or without the shot. It's all about money.

Last year, when the nasal vaccine hit the market big, the media hyped the death factor behind the flu. They showed little children and old people dying, but they failed to mention the percentage of people who die from the flu has not changed in over 50 years - shot or no shot.

[Blasphemer]

14. Exactly...

I've never had one (granted, I'm still "young") and I haven't had the flu in years. I never plan on having one unless I'm physically in a condition where it is absolutely essential. Granted, in certain environments (and in certain people), it's best to try to decrease the possibility of spreading the flu but I've always felt that FAR too many people have been taking the flu shot who don't need it. There was bound to be a problem with the supply with so many people taking it unnecessarily. Over the years, I've heard from so many members of my family about getting the shot and I never understood why these healthy people whose bodies can fight the flu naturally are getting this shot every year. I think doctors have been totally irresponsible and yes it's always boils down to the money.

[Piperay]

18. Same here

I've never had one (I'm in my 50s) and I don't intend to have one. I would worry more about getting sick from the shot than the flu.

[Bridget Burke]

28. Many of us healthy folks have not been going to the doctor for flu shots..

I get mine at work--free of charge & very convenient. Many employers supply them free or cheap to cut down on absences. It's a great benefit for those who are high risk & many of us low riskers are glad for a chance to avoid wasting a couple of weeks being sick. Even those who take a pass on the shots reap a benefit: fewer co-workers shedding virus in the next cubicle. (We may all get that Bad Cold that Goes Around--but that's not influenza.)

This year, the vaccine is only going to those who need it. Reading the numbers who die every "normal" year, I wonder why this is accepted. Couldn't more be done? Get the vaccine out to those who need it? There've been some comments in this thread about natural remedies--who's ensuring that the older folks, especially, are getting balanced meals & any supplements they may need?

And Bush is running on how much he can "protect" us. The influenza fiasco this year is not the fault of us selfish people who took the vaccine when offered. It's the fault of the administration that always puts people last.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

13. who are younger and healthier do not really need it

Should read... who are younger and (have a more robust immune response) not who are "healthier". Anyone can be "healthier" no matter their age.

The elderly can benefit dramatically from immune system enhancing supplements, vitamins, herbs, and minerals. They all too often suffer from malabsorption syndrome... which can limit their intake of essential nutrients needed for proper immune system activity.

Immune Enhancement

References

Adachi, N., Migita, M., Ohta, T., Higashi, A., Matsuda, I. Depressed natural killer cell activity due to decreased natural killer cell population in a vitamin E-deficient patient with Shwachman syndrome: reversible natural killer cell abnormality by alpha-tocopherol supplementation. Eur. J. Pediatr. 1997 Jun; 156(6): 444-8.

Arunachalam, K., Gill, H.S., Chandra, R.K. Enhancement of natural immune function by dietary consumption of Bifidobacterium lactis (HN019). Eur. J. Clin. Nutr. 2000 Mar; 54(3): 263-7.

Austin, S. Recent progress in treatment and secondary prevention of breast cancer with supplements. Altern. Med. Rev. 1997; 2(1): 4-11.

Bagchi, D., Garg, A., Krohn, R.L., Bagchi, M., Bagchi, D.J., Balmoori, J., Stohs, S.J. Protective effects of grape seed proanthocyanidins and selected antioxidants against TPA-induced hepatic and brain lipid peroxidation and DNA fragmentation, and peritoneal macrophage activation in mice. Gen. Pharmacol. 1998 May; 30(5): 771-6.

Bagchi, D., Garg, A., Krohn, R.L., Bagchi, M., Tran, M.X., Stohs, S.J. Oxygen free radical scavenging abilities of vitamins C and E, and a grape seed proanthocyanidin extract in vitro. Res. Commun. Mol. Pathol. Pharmacol. 1997 Feb; 95(2): 179-89.

Beisel, W.R. Nutrition and immune function: overview. J. Nutr. 1996; 126(10, Suppl.): 2611S-2615S.

Bounous, G., Baruchel, S., Falutz, J., Gold, P. Whey proteins as a food supplement in HIV-seropositive individuals. Clin. Invest. Med. 1993 Jun; 16(3): 204-9.

Brink, W. Cover Story: Lactoferrin: the bioactive peptide that fights disease. Life Extension Magazine 2000 Oct; 6(10): 20-6. Ft. Lauderdale, FL: Life Extension Foundation.

Broumand, N., Sahl, L., Tilles, J.G. In vitro effects of echinacea and ginseng on natural killer and antibody-dependent cell cytotoxicity in healthy subjects and chronic fatigue syndrome or acquired immunodeficiency syndrome patients. Immunopharmacology 1997 Jan; 35(3): 229-35.

Bubenik, G.A., Blask, D.E., Brown, G.M., Maestroni, G.J., Pang, S.F., Reiter, R.J., Viswanathan, M., Zisapel, N. Prospects of the clinical utilization of melatonin. Biol. Signals Recept. 1998 Jul-Aug; 7(4): 195-219.

Carlos, T.F., Riondel, J., Mathieu, J., Guiraud, P., Mestries, J.C., Favier, A. Beta-carotene enhances natural killer cell activity in athymic mice. In Vivo 1997 Jan-Feb; 11(1): 87-91.

Chan, A.C. Partners in defense, vitamin E and vitamin C. Can. J. Physiol. Pharmacol. 1993 Sep; 71(9): 725-31.

Chandra, R.K. Nutrition and immune responses. Can. J. Physiol. Pharmacol. 1983 Mar; 61(3): 290-4.

Chandra, R.K. Effect of vitamin and trace-element supplementation on immune responses and infection in elderly subjects. Lancet 1992 Nov 7; 340(8828): 1124-7; comment, Lancet 1993 Jan 30; 341(8840): 306-7.

Chandra, R.K. Nutrition and immunology: from the clinic to cellular biology and back again. Proc. Nutr. Soc. 1999 Aug; 58(3): 681-3.

Chandra, R.K., Baker, M. Numerical and functional deficiency of suppressor T cells precedes development of atopic eczema. Lancet 1983 Dec 17; 2(8364): 1393-4.

Chandra, S., Chandra, R.K. Nutrition, immune response, and outcome. Prog. Food Nutr. Sci. 1986; 10(1-2): 1-65.

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Chandra, R.K., McBean, L.D. Zinc and immunity. Nutrition 1994 Jan-Feb; 10(1): 7-80.

Chiang, B.L., Sheih, Y.H., Wang, L.H., Liao, C.K., Gill, H.S. Enhancing immunity by dietary consumption of a probiotic lactic acid bacterium (Bifidobacterium lactis HN019): optimization and definition of cellular immune responses. Eur. J. Clin. Nutr. 2000 Nov; 54(11): 849-55.

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<More>
http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcl-062refs.html

[Bridget Burke]

16. "Most people" are not the ones worrying....

In a "normal" year, thousands die from influenza. This year, there is even less vaccine for those who really need it. And many of them have less access to medical care--so it will be harder for them to get timely help if worse symptoms occur.

More people will proably die this year. But if you're not young, old or have a health problem--and if you don't care about anybody who's young, old or has a health problem--why should you care?

I'm pretty healthy & don't need the vaccine. But if I have to waste a week or two with the flu, it will give me one more reason to be pissed at this gang of idiots.

[PBX9501]

19. I almost 50 and have never had one, still kicking(nt)

[demigoddess]

26. i'm over 55 and never had the flu or a flu shot

None of my immediate family ever had the flu and now my kids have never had the flu either. Only my husband gets the flu, exactly 2 weeks after he gets the flu shot!!!!


If the flu is so dangerous, why do they just recommend handwashing as protection now that they have a shortage??

[bleedingheart]

29. I spent three days in the hospital last year and spent almost

two months very ill...so a flu shot is a necessity for this thirty something female...

[tibbir]

30. I'm 53, healthy and would never get a flu shot . But what about my

84 year old mother who's had pulmonary embolisms as well as emphysema? She lives in a small town and the only vaccine they're getting there is showing up at the public health service. To get vaccinated you have to show up at 8:00am and stand in a very long line. Problem is she physically can't do that.

She's heard that hand-washing line too. She also says she's going to stay inside a lot more this winter - and not get out and around people like she needs emotionally. This is a fiasco.

[Ilsa]

31. I wouldn't immunize my babies for stuff like that.

I just nursed them and they received immunity passively.

ITA that there isn't enough to go around. Not only for the elderly and persons with immune system problems, but health care workers. Hospitals can get overwhelmed easily if there aren't enough health care workers during an epidemic. Plus, they are in the position of being able to spread the disease around easily if they aren't protected.

[SoCalDem]

32. I am not a fan of flu shots...but I am not in the "at risk" demographic

I've only known ONE person who got the flu shot.. and she ended up in intensive care for a week.. some weird reaction to the shot..

The bank I worked at, insisted that we all get one, unless we signed a waiver.. The waiver more or less said that if we refused the shot, and then GOT the flu, we could not use sick leave..

ah..the politics of medicine:shrug:

[happynewyear]

33. too late for me

*cough* *cough* *ahhh choooo* *ahhhhhhhhh choooo* *hack* *hack*

:grr: :grr: :grr:

I wonder how long this will last?

:kick:

[Voice_of_Europe]

35. Flue shots only for the "weak"

That's the reality!
Nobody gets killed by a flu except when your immunity system is weakened!!
Such people are cancer patients, elderly people, and so on...

But no healthy person needs a flu shot!
Don't let your boss takl you into it so you don't call in sick 2 days a year!

The human immunity system needs training and a flu is the easiest way to get that.

[Bridget Burke]

37. The flu is different every year.

You don't build up immunity to it. By all means, strengthen your immune system. But it's not a muscle; you don't "train" it.

Nobody's boss is asking them to take the shot this year. There isn't enough vaccine in the USA, even for those at high risk. And more conditions than a dicey "immunity system" can make someone high risk.

Even low risk patietns need to take more than 2 sick days if they catch the flu.