Russians ‘may have taken Iraq explosives’ (Financial Times)

[troublemaker]

Be sure to read the Pentagon and Russian denials at the end, just in case they don't make the moonie times version today

The controversy over Iraq’s missing explosives intensified on Wednesday as the Bush administration rejected charges of incompetence and a senior Pentagon official claimed the munitions may have been removed by Russians before the US-led invasion.

Breaking his silence over an issue that has dominated headlines since Monday, President George W. Bush accused John Kerry, his Democratic challenger, of making “wild charges” over the 350 tonnes of explosives and weapons.

The Pentagon is still investigating their disappearance. But Scott McClellan, White House press secretary, said there was a “very real possibility” the munitions were taken by the Saddam Hussein regime before US troops arrived at the munitions facility at al-Qaqaa, south of Baghdad.

At a rally in Iowa on Wednesday, however, Mr Kerry claimed that Mr Bush had allowed the explosives to fall into the hands of Iraqi rebels. Later, his campaign conceded that the Hussein regime might have removed the munitions before the invasion.

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/a4bc50c6-2870-11d9-9308-00000e2511c8.html

[truthpusher]

1. Crap story - read this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x937943

[DulceDecorum]

14. There is another suspect

[acmavm]

2. Crap, they'll blame anybody. And here their boy Putie endorsed bush*

for pResident just a week or two ago.

That's loyalty for ya. Loyalty of the bush* type.

[maddezmom]

3. John Shaw...on record blaming it on the Russians...spin this rove

But in a further development, John Shaw, a deputy under-secretary of defence, suggested that “Russian units” had transported the explosives out of the country.

In an interview with the Financial Times, Mr Shaw said: “For nearly nine months my office has been aware of an elaborate scheme set up by Saddam Hussein to finance and disguise his weapons purchases through his international suppliers, principally the Russians and French. That network included. . . employing various Russian units on the eve of hostilities to orchestrate the collection of munitions and assure their transport out of Iraq via Syria.”

The Russian embassy in Washington rejected the claims as “nonsense”, saying there were no Russian military in the country at the time.

[RapidCreek]

26. Those wascuwy wussins

Amazing how they were able to circumvent the greatest military force in the world. Guess Mr. Shaw is telling us the Pentagon is inept....well that sounds like a good excuse to me! Oh wait...he works for the Pentagon. Hmmmmm.

I sort of envisioned the same scenario but with Delta force guys....hauling WMD's into the country.

RC

[Inland]

4. Bush condemns "wild charges" as Scott accuses Russians, ROFL!

Apparently its okay to guess and speculate on any scenario as long as it exculpates Bush! What a bunch of dicks.

[Old and In the Way]

5. Does this make Russia a terrorist country now?

When do we invade?

[maddezmom]

6. your either with us or against us, right??? bet the plans are on Condi's

desk....:eyes:

[LisaL]

10. Well, unlike Iraq, Russia actually has nukes.

Or so Putin likes to point out now and then.

[burrowowl]

23. Well, with global warming

maybe our troops won't freeze to death when they walk into Russia in winter.

[debatepro]

7. only response we need

I think it would be great on John Stewart, clinton, gore, Clarke, dean, frankin, etc all talk about this quote:

""A political candidate who jumps to conclusions without knowing the facts is not a person you want as your commander in chief," Bush said in his first remarks on the subject since news of the missing explosives became public on Monday. "
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1506&nc...

FADE to:
The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.
Our intelligence sources tell us that he has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production.
Saddam Hussein has not credibly explained these activities. He clearly has much to hide.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/01/28/sotu.transcri... /

[timezoned]

27. Perfect

Perfect. Send that out. Re-post it. Etc.

I laughed out loud when I heard B's quote yesterday.



On other absurdities of his reponse, here's what I sent out widely yesterday:


Dear ______(editor, columnist, etc)

The rhetoric in this election has truly become near-delusionary now. President Bush today said:

"If Senator Kerry had his way... Saddam Hussein would still be in power. He would control those all of those weapons and explosives and could share them with his terrorist friends..."

Does he mean as opposed to now, when that's certainly who has them?

By anyone's account, these things were sealed before we embarked on this war. No one is even debating that point.

And as far as "terrorist friends", Dick Cheney not only denied this connection between Hussein and the terrorists, he even objected to anyone saying otherwise, stating sharply "I never implied there was a connection!" during his debate.

This administration has begun to spin out of all control it seems. I hope you're taking notes. Please do.

[krkaufman]

8. From the article... "the Pentagon distanced itself from his remarks."

[Furity]

9. Talk about wild charges

Are we starting the Cold War again? Or the Holy War? Darn I've lost track.

~Furity

[TheBlackSteeds]

11. bizarre charge to make..

but, consider the source? That all involved paries deny it is no surprise.

[Charles19]

12. Whats next? Bin Laden flying spaceships?

this is laughable.

[Rose Siding]

13. State is nostalgic for the Cold War

Or for any time when they mattered. To even make this accusation looks like the biggest foreign policy SCREW-UP since...well, last week when Powell dissed Taiwan over China, I guess was the last one. So! Not that long ago...another day, another blah blah

Really, can anyone remember a time when the govt threw out this kind of charge in such an overt political move? They couldn't have given it much thought, could they? Quick call to Kissinger...*in impossibly low voice*...err, blame it on the Russians ahhh..of course they'll believe it...they hate the Russians...

Bush league.

[Wright Patman]

37. Putin's endorsement of *

must not have polled well with the base. Freepers still call Russia the Soviet Union. And always will.

Can you imagine the media field day which would have accompanied a Putin endorsement of Clinton?

Faux Newsreader: "There is more proof coming in today that Bill Clinton was indeed a KGB agent during his college days at Oxford as now the Kremlin has endorsed him for president."

[killbotfactory]

15. If you believe the russians took them, congratulations!

YOU ARE A CERTIFIED IDIOT!

Gold stars for you!

[seemslikeadream]

16. "Jack" Shaw

If I could get to the archieves I'd post a thread about Shaw. The neocons tried to trash him last summer. The DoD had to release this statement. He was keeping an eye on a couple special people in the White House.


IMMEDIATE RELEASE August 10, 2004

DoD Statement on Jack Shaw and the Iraq Telecommunications Contract

For several months there have been allegations in the press that activities of John A. Shaw, Deputy Under Secretary of Defense for International Technology Security, were under investigation by the Inspector General of the Department of Defense (DoD IG). The allegations were examined by DoD IG criminal investigators in Baghdad and a criminal investigation was never opened.

Furthermore, attempts to discredit Shaw and his report on Iraqi telecommunications contracting matters were brought to the attention of the DoD IG and were accordingly referred to the FBI.

Shaw carried out his duties in the investigation of Iraqi telecommunications matters pursuant to the authorities spelled out in the Memorandum of Understanding between the DoD IG and the Acting Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics. Shaw provided a copy of his report to the DOD IG and, at the request of the Coalition Provisional Authority, to the Iraqi National Communications and Media Commission.

Shaw is not now, nor has he ever been, under investigation by the DoD IG. Any questions concerning FBI activities should be addressed to the FBI.

http://www.dod.mil/releases/2004/nr20040810-1103.html

[seemslikeadream]

20. John (Jack) Shaw smelled a neo-con rat

Winds of Change:
Troubled Waters Ahead For the Neo Cons
by
Wayne Madsen

According to Pentagon and Justice Department sources, U.S. investigators discovered that Ahmad Chalabi and his business partners were involved in fraudulently obtaining cellular phone licenses in Iraq. The Pentagon's Undersecretary of Defense for International Technology Security John (Jack) Shaw smelled a neo-con rat when the Iraqi Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA), in late 2003, awarded cellular phone contracts to three companies - Orascom, Atheer, and Asia-Cell - with ties to Ahmed Chalabi. As with all those who challenge the impropriety and illegal activities of the neo-cons, Shaw was, in turn, charged with improperly steering Iraq cell phone contracts to Qualcomm and Lucent. However, it is Shaw, reported by his longtime colleagues to be a solid and trustworthy public servant, who has the confidence of law enforcement, Pentagon investigators, and the military brass. Anything with Ahmed Chalabi's fingerprints on it also bears the fingerprints of his nephew Salem Chalabi. Salem, named as the chief prosecutor in Saddam Hussein's trial, is a law partner of L. Marc Zell, a Jerusalem-based attorney who was the law partner of Douglas Feith - the head of the Pentagon's Office of Special Plans that concocted phony intelligence on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction and ties to Al Qaeda with the assistance of Likud operatives seconded by Ariel Sharon's government.

The law firm of Feith & Zell, in concert with Perle, was instrumental in funneling hundreds of millions of dollars from Arab and Muslim countries to the Bosnian government during that nation's civil war. While that effort was ostensibly designed to assist the Bosnians to purchase weapons, officials familiar with its actual operation reported that some of the arms and money "spilled over" to Al Qaeda and Iranian Pasdaran forces in the Balkans.

The neo-con attack on Shaw was predictable considering their previous attacks on Ambassador Joe Wilson, his wife Valerie Plame, former U.S. Central Command chief General Anthony Zinni, former counter-terrorism coordinator Richard Clarke, former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill, CIA counter-terrorism agent Michael Scheuer (the "anonymous" author of Imperial Hubris who has recently been gagged by the Bush administration), fired FBI translator Sibel Edmonds (who likely discovered a penetration by Israeli and other intelligence assets using the false flag of the Turkish American Council and who also has been gagged by the Bush administration), and all those who took on the global domination cabal. But Shaw showed incredible moxie. When he decided to investigate Pentagon Inspector General Reports that firms tied to Perle and Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz were benefiting from windfall profit contracts in Iraq, Shaw decided to go to Iraq himself to find out what was going on. When Shaw was denied entry into Iraq by U.S. military officers (yes, a top level official of the Defense Department was denied access to Iraq by U.S. military personnel!), he decided to sneak into the country disguised as a Halliburton contractor. Using the cover of Cheney's old company to get the goods on Cheney's friends' illegal activities was yet another masterful stroke of genius by Shaw. But it also earned him the wrath of the neo-cons. They soon leaked a story to the Los Angeles Times claiming that Shaw actually snuck into Iraq to ensure that Qualcomm (on whose board sat a friend of Shaw's) was awarded a lucrative cell network contract.

But nothing could be further from the truth. Shaw, who worked for Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush, represented the Old Guard Republican entity that in August 2003 set up shop in the Pentagon right under the noses of Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and Feith to investigate the neo-con cabal and their illegal contract deals. The entity, known as the International Armament and Technology Trade Directorate, was soon shut down as a result of neo-con pressure. Not to be deterred, Shaw continued his investigation of the neo-cons. Although the neo-cons told the Los Angeles Times that the FBI was investigating Shaw, the reverse was the case: the FBI was investigating the neo-cons, particularly Perle and Wolfowitz, for fraudulent activities involving Iraqi contracts. And in worse news for the neo-cons: Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld was giving the Inspector General's and Shaw's investigations a "wink and a nod" of approval.

The financial stakes for the Pentagon are high - the Iraqi CPA's Inspector General recently revealed that over $1 billion of Iraqi money was missing from the audit books on Iraqi contracts. For Shaw and the FBI, it was a matter of what they suspected for many years - that Perle, Wolfowitz, and their comrades were running entities that ensured favorable treatment for Israeli activities - whether they were business opportunities in a U.S.-occupied Arab country or protecting Israeli spies operating within the U.S. defense and intelligence establishments.

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/081104_winds_change.shtml

[Media_Lies_Daily]

17. The Russians took the explosives??....

Is that something like "The dog ate my homework"??

[doodlebugs4kerry]

18. Where are they now?

"At a rally in Iowa on Wednesday, however, Mr Kerry claimed that Mr Bush had allowed the explosives to fall into the hands of Iraqi rebels. Later, his campaign conceded that the Hussein regime might have removed the munitions before the invasion.




:kick: Bush out!

[Carolab]

19. Tomorrow

watch for video to be released showing the munitions were there when we arrived and the army was inspecting the explosives at the compound.

[OutsourceBush]

21. this story came from the Moonies

pure propaganda for the far right. Washington Times is owned by Moon, loses money every year. Had their hand up every repuke presidents ass since Nixon. They do this sorta horse sh*t when ever the repuke president needs a favor.

[troublemaker]

24. You have it backwards. This story originated with the FT

[OutsourceBush]

30. No you have it wrong, it's the F'ing MOONIEs

http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20041028-122637-6257r.htm

Why the FT is shilling for the F'ing Moonies, you would have to ask them. Maybe Moon owns their asses too. He owns just about everything else.

[sonicx]

33. the FT story was on the net first, i believe.

[muriel_volestrangler]

34. The Financial Times claims the interview as its own

"In an interview with the Financial Times, Mr Shaw said: ..."

And they are normally scrupulous over such things. Contrast that with the Washington Times, which talks about "an interview". It's possible that both interviewed him.

[grumpy old fart]

41. Whatever...still a good oppty to Bash Chimp

whoever had the story first, if chimp runs with the Russian spin he is wide open for his fawning over Putin back in '01. Remember, Chimp said he trusts Putin after gazing into his eyes...how romantic!

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NickB79]

25. How did the Russians get into the country AND move 350 tons of HX

Across flat desert country in at least a dozen large semi-trailers, into Syria, without at least ONE of our spy planes, unmanned drones, or spy satellites detecting it? Esp. after Colin's claims at the UN, showing off our super-duper satellite photography of those supposed WMD factories being cleared out right before UN inspectors got there. We can see individual people walking around bunkers in the sand, but we can't spot a friggin truck convoy in the desert?!?!

[leftchick]

28. Then Why Did Russia Ask The UN To Look For Them on Tues.?

http://www.boston.com/dailynews/300/world/Russia_calls_on_Security_Counc:.shtml

Russia calls on Security Council to discuss return of U.N. inspectors to Iraq after disappearance of high explosives

By Edith M. Lederer, Associated Press, 10/26/2004 18:11

ADVERTISEMENT

UNITED NATIONS (AP) Russia called on the U.N. Security Council Tuesday to discuss the return of U.N. weapons inspectors to Iraq following the disappearance of 377 tons of powerful explosives. But the United States said American inspectors are investigating the loss and there is no need for U.N. experts to return.

Russia's U.N. Ambassador Andrey Denisov, whose country has been pushing for the return of U.N. inspectors since the U.S.-led war in Iraq ended, insisted that raising the issue in the council was ''practical,'' not political, saying the explosives posed a dangerous threat.

The disappearance, confirmed Monday by the U.N. nuclear agency, raised questions about why the United States didn't do more to secure the former Iraqi military installation at Al-Qaqaa south of Baghdad where the explosives were stored, and why it refused to allow U.N. inspections to resume after the March 2003 invasion.

Denisov said he didn't expect the Security Council to discuss the issue until next month at the earliest, and council diplomats said it would certainly be after the Nov. 2 presidential election.

[DoYouEverWonder]

29. This bs is so confusing

Now they are trying to say that Saddam bought this stuff from the Russians, but then made arrangements to give it back just when he needed it the most, when his country was being invaded? Then why did Saddam bother to buy this stuff in the first place?

I know liars are not logicial and do not make sense.

[LynnTheDem]

36. Those explosives WERE ALLOWED. Iraq was ALLOWED to have them.

They were NEVER EVER PROHIBITED. Not EVER.

So WHY would Hussein sell/give them back to ANYONE???

Last time here...those explosives are NOT "WMD", they are NOT PROHIBITED, Iraq was ALLOWED TO HAVE THEM, just like Iraq is allowed to have cats and dogs and microwaves and cars.

[DoYouEverWonder]

38. But I thought this stash

was under UN Inspectors seal? Why would they have taken them away from Saddam in the first place, if this was material that he was allowed to have?

[FlaGranny]

39. Yes, it was under seal,

but supposedly legal. After all, explosives are used for things other than weapons, like road building, mining, demolition, etc.

[LynnTheDem]

44. They DIDN't take them away from Saddam

The UN MONITORED the HMX to be sure it was only used for civilian purposes and they then sealed the entire complex when bush was planning to invade.

The UN tried to make sure the stuff wasn't looted and used against our troops. Too bad bush didn't give a damn.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

31. Such a tangled web we weave...

This is absurd, Bush has enough campaign funds to pay for better lies than that.

[ohio_dem_52186]

32. MSBC has story too: I guess this means Bush can add another nation

to our list of coalition members! Russia more than makes up for Poland.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6323933/

How can our military intelligence, who were watching Iraq like a hawk, have missed no less than 15 semi trucks (that is how many would be needed) come into a known weapons dump, load up cargo, and then convoy out through Syria?

That is exactly the kind of thing that we were looking for!!!

If this happened (a big if in my opinion), it happened with Bush's prior approval. Wouldn't want our good friend Putin, another bastion of democracy, to look bad for slipping Saddam (i.e. Mr. Ideology of Hate).

[LynnTheDem]

35. Oh alright I admit it...*I* took them.

I wanted to really impress my friends with New Year's fireworks. They were impressed and now I'm The Big Cheezie of New Year's fireworks.

Ok?

Happy now?

Good. So get OVER it!

:D

[grumpy old fart]

40. But Bush "knows Putin's soul"

Remember, the Chimp looked into Putin's eyes a few years back and saw his soul. Bush said "this is a man we can trust". If Chimp wants to stick with the Ruskie spin, we should be nailing him, once again, on his wonderful "gut feelings".

[BUSHOUT]

42. Um...if chimp ran with that,why not just nail him with 5 Eyewitness news?

http://www.kstp.com/article/stories/S3723.html?cat=1

[grumpy old fart]

43. Agreed, Got him busted either way

[geniph]

45. They "may have been removed by Russians"?

Yeah, they might be up the Easter Bunny's cotton-tailed butt, too, but they're not. Nice fairy tale, but I smell Rove all over this story.

[0007]

46. Did I see Tommy Franks backing junior on the stump today?