Presidential Politics Gets Ugly in Fla. (gun to head of Kerry supporter)

[Rose Siding]

VERO BEACH, Fla. Oct 27, 2004 — An anti-John Kerry demonstrator was charged with felony aggravated assault with a gun for allegedly pointing a weapon at the head of a Kerry supporter.

Michael Garone, 52, was released from jail Tuesday on his on recognizance.

Garone and others were holding anti-Kerry signs at a street corner Monday in Vero Beach when Trevor Pickering drove up and said "Go Kerry," according to an arrest affidavit.

Pickering argued with the anti-Kerry protesters, and then got out of the car and knocked a sign out of the hands of one of the demonstrators.

"That's when (Garone) walked up to my car and stuck a gun to my head," Pickering said. "I said 'I'm sorry' and 'Please don't kill me,' drove away and called the cops."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=204308&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

[Zuni]

1. How much do you want to bet

that the gun puller was a member of Freerepublic.com

[fryguy]

2. and i'm sure jeb's gonna let the him vote....

....if not man a polling station

[Maddy McCall]

29. This makes Ole Miss in the 1960s look like a cake walk.

Armed conservatives pulling weapons, threatening to kill anyone who dare cross their line.

I fear the violence in this election cycle.

[Downtown Hound]

3. Sick bastards

All I can say is guns don't kill people, Republicans do.

on edit: the guy was way out of line for knocking his sign out of his hand. But still, a gun? Why do freepers always reach for a gun? Too chickenshit to do any of their own fighting?

[Cha]

4. Geebus, Dude!

Don't be gettin' outta your car and knockin' signs outta moron's hands..he could have a gun!

[stepnw1f]

5. SUrrrrrrrrrreeeeeee!!!!!! I think This Is Rove!

You are going down biatch!!!!!

[Atman]

6. I'm sure the irony was lost on the protestors

""I said 'I'm sorry' and 'Please don't kill me,'"

[w13rd0]

7. Could always ask the anti-Kerry protestors...

...if they had a machete, would they threaten to behead you?

[chookie]

8. A little background

Those of us Floridians who dared to travel to Tallahassee to protest the "irregularities" of the election had to deal with our brownshirt counterparts.

They came armed. They didn't have their guns on their persons, but in the vehicles they brought. They were happy to talk to reporters about this measure they took, which, they said, was "just in case something happens."

I guess they were anticipating Helter Skelter to break out. I thought it was totally fucking weird that Americans would bring arms to demonstrations to use against other Americans, but hey, I'm a civilized human being, and not from the South originally.

Well, they're used to us being "pussies" and get trigger happy when we stand up for ourselves. Interesting that "swing states" Ohio and Michigan are notoriously "militia" areas.

Buckle your seatbelts, dears -- it's going to be a freaky autumn. Extra competition for the Darwin Awards.

Battle lines are being drawn

[schultzee]

11. I am from the south and these bible freaks are more violent than

you can believe.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. For a HOT civil war no doubt

[KansDem]

43. Thanks for this post...and for reminding us about this...

I remember vividly watching the news during the recount fiasco and seeing a reporter interview a Bush supporter in the parking lot outside the building housing the recount, who made it clear that although they were there to "monitor" the situation, they had firearms in their cars in case the recount got out of hand; in other words, in case anyone intervened to assure a full, legal recount.

I remember thinking "Shit, what country is this...?"

[krkaufman]

9. Pretty ignert on the part of Pickering.

Not the kind of thing we need to be doing. (The getting out of the car part; no prob w/ the "Go Kerry!")

[schultzee]

10. Hey if * steals it, or Kerry wins, get ready. These freaks are violent.

[PartyPooper]

12. Exactly. The prospect of a divided country scares the sh*t out of me.

Thanks to George W. Bush...the "Uniter".

*sigh*

[arikara]

13. They had a documentary on CBC tonight

about the horrible divisive mood in the US around the election and politics in general. How both sides are so angry and bitter at each other and there is no compromise whatsoever. There hasn't been anything like it in a generation. Sad to see what ugliness the chimp has created.

[TankLV]

20. Try 150 years -since before the last Civil War broke out.

[sendero]

31. This has been brewing....

.... since Reagan at least. And I don't see any easy way to end it. It is sad for our country, that's for sure.

[fearnobush]

14. Hey you Nazi Repukes, We will take a bullet for Kerry. "GO KERRY"

Kerry Fucking Rocks... Get it.

[Modem Butterfly]

26. Fuck that.

I'm not taking a bullet for shit.

Now GIVING bullets, that's another story entirely. Count Mr. Butterfly and I among the ranks of armed liberals. Like the old saying goes, "I'm not prepared to die for my country, but I am prepared to make the enemy die for his,"

[bling bling]

16. Some would call these people right wing fundie wacko's

George Bush calls them "his base."

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

17. I'm skeptical

The pro-Kerry guy argues with protesters, gets out of his car, knocks a sign out of a guy's hands and then claims a gun was pulled on him.

If this were a pro-Bush guy making the claim, we'd all be hooting "Parlock" at him. Or lauding the pro-Kerry protester for protecting himself against assault.

I would like more evidence that a gun was pulled than the word of the guy who started the fight. Even if it happened as he tells it, he was an asshole for picking the fight.

[JSJ]

18. pro-bush cops wouldn't have arrested the dude w/o cause

[NorthernSpy]

19. the sign-knocking incident could be either offensive or defensive...

... We don't really know yet, because the article doesn't give us a lot of detail.

On the one hand, storming up to a person holding a sign and reaching out and knocking the sign out of that person's hands would be an aggressive action, clearly.

On the other hand, I know that if someone deliberately kept sticking a sign right in my face, I'd probably slap it away and feel totally justified in doing so.

I suppose that either of those scenarios could have taken place during this incident, or some combination of the two.


Mary

[TheWebHead]

21. police found a loaded gun on Garone

here's the local newspapers story:

VERO BEACH — A Vero Beach man charged with pointing a gun at a critic during a political demonstration on Monday was released from jail on his own recognizance Tuesday after police found a loaded pistol in his car.

Vero Beach resident Trevor Pickering, who claimed Michael Garone, 52, pointed a gun at his head, said he thinks anyone who points a gun at another person should stay in jail.

"This might be the craziest thing that has ever happened to me," he said. "I am just happy to be alive. I mean, for something like this to happen in the middle of Indian River Boulevard is unbelievable."

Although Garone admitted to having a gun in his car during the incident, he said it was never on him. "I was holding two political signs — one in each hand — the entire time," Garone said. "I leaned down to pick up a cold bottle of water and saw (another supporter's) sign fly up in the air. I pointed my sign at (Pickering), but I never had a gun."

more..
http://www.tcpalm.com/tcp/local_news/article/0,1651,TCP_16736_3283258,00.html
(requires signup)

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

25. Thanks

Discussing it with the Magistrate, he suggested those had been the circumstances that led to Garone's arrest, but there was nothing about a gun on the scene in the first article cited.

[patcox2]

40. In any confrontation situation, police will arrest the guy with a gun.

The fact that the police arrested the guy with the gun really doesn't tell me that they were convinced that the guy with the gun was the guy at fault. The police, when presented with a public fight or confrontation of any kind, there first priority is to prevent further violence or escalating violence. In most cases, if they respond to a fight, and one guy has a gun, they are going to arrest the one with the gun, that way they can confiscate the gun and reduce the risk that after they leave the fight won't re-erupt and someone wind up dead.

Who is at fault is a completely open question here. but it looks bad for our Kerrey supporter because he was approaching and, in the big picture, acting as the aggressor most of the time ( a shouting person getting out of his truck and approaching you is very threatening, I have had it happen to me.)

[Laelth]

22. Why is this creep ...

described as an anti-Kerry protester? Why not call him what he is?

He's a Bush supporter!

prostitutes! :mad:

-Laelth

[Dem2theMax]

24. Thank you! I was looking to see if anyone had brought that up.

Typical American News story. Don't put *'s name in a bad light in ANY way. :puke:

Oh, what I wouldn't give for a free and honest media.

[saracat]

23. God, I hate these people. Someone needs to lock them up.

This is dangerous. We had better be on alert on Election Day!

[ixion]

27. second report of violence by * supporters in as many days...

and yet it's supposedly progressives that are doing all the 'hating'.

Riiiiiiight. :eyes:

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

28. It must be so nice to be a republican

:scared:

[symbolman]

30. I posted this in General and mentioned that they are

pushing people's buttons to start a Civil War.. they'd love it.. take a look at what Marc Racicot says in this email.

This is pure psyops here folks, and the suckers are taking the bait.. I predict Bush will REFUSE to leave the White House and all hell is going to break out.

****

Dear Mister,

Just a few short days stand between us and the election. If the activities taking place in battleground states are any indication, our opponents plan a long, bitter, and vicious fight. Let me share just a sample of what is going on across the country today, 6 days before you vote. And let me tell you what else you may expect to see.

We have already seen 35 lawsuits filed in 17 states - some before the first ballot was even cast. So far, the Democrats have failed in their attempts to win this election in the courts, rather than the ballot box.

The shadowy groups aligned against us will stop at nothing, and I mean nothing, to win. That is why we must prepare for every possible outcome next Tuesday. That is why we must have the resources necessary to fight any legal battle. Will you ensure we're prepared?

www.GeorgeWBush.com/Recount

Our offices have been broken into, vandalized, and robbed. Gun shots have pierced the doors and windows of several offices. Fortunately, no one was hurt in those attacks, but unfortunately, when union members stormed an office in Florida, a volunteer's arm was broken.

Our GELAC account (our legal fund, really) can be used to pay for some of the damage done to offices we occupy. More importantly, though, it allows us to pay the costs of a recount. It allows us to guard against the kind of lawsuits we have seen, and which we expect to see in the days after the election.

Those allied against us will not go quietly when the voters speak. They have already made clear they consider the election to be only the opening battle in a much larger war - a war we must also be prepared to fight. Will you make sure we're ready?

www.GeorgeWBush.com/Recount

We do not want to go through another election where the outcome is held hostage by the courts and those who were defeated at the polls try to reverse the outcome through legal wrangling and endless litigation.

We want the people's will, not the will of high-powered trial lawyers, to determine the President. To make that happen, we need you. We need you to make one last contribution to our GELAC fund and help us secure the outcome of this election against those who would use violence, theft and assault as tactics - and those who would use the courts to claim a victory they did not earn.

Please give all you can.

Sincerely,

Marc Racicot
Chairman

P.S. Those who oppose us have already used theft, vandalism and assault as weapons to win this election. Their next stop will be the courts. Will you make a contribution to our legal fund and ensure we have the resources to uphold the vote when the people speak next Tuesday? Please give all you can. www.GeorgeWBush.com/Recount

[KurtNYC]

33. Interesting

And they are delusional - the outcome is held hostage by the courts ?! Didn't the Supreme Court hand the Whitehouse to Bush? Says they don't want it held up in court then asks for money to go to court with -- perfect.

This is what the rest of their spin is likely to look like come next week.

[Rose Siding]

36. EVERYONE READ THIS!!!

speechless.

[Edmond Dantes]

52. Basic principle of war:

do not start a fight unless you know victory is assured. Why do they feel victory is assured?

Electoral fix is in. When Kerry supporters start rioting, it provides an excuse for imposition of martial law. America will become a dictatorship.

We will be totally screwed at home.

Foreign countries will view us as a Nazi America that must be stopped.

[DeadManInc]

32. Ugly In Florida

Why did they let this man out of jail? These dumbasses probably gave him his gun back also.

[patcox2]

34. Guy asked for it.

This hand wringing is ridiculous. This "victim" first argued, okay, thats fine, then got out of his truck and walked up to a picketer and "knocked the sign out of his hand." Sorry, our guy was in the wrong, he resorted to violence first. That was assault.

The redneck Bush supporter certainly over-reacted by pulling a gun, but thats the risk you take when you resort to violence first.

I will say that again; when you resort to violence, you take the risk of escalation. Thats why only assholes resort to violence in the first place.

[chimpy the poopthrower]

37. But as NorthernSpy correctly points out (post #19)

"the sign-knocking incident could be either offensive or defensive... We don't really know yet, because the article doesn't give us a lot of detail."

I'm suspicious of a lot of the stories coming out that allege violence or vandalism directed toward Bush supporters or GOP offices. I think a lot of that is staged, exaggerated, or made up ("parlockery" as some call it). On the other hand, the guy in the K. Harris incident *seems* to be legit. And someone pointed out there has been just as much violence toward Dem offices, it just doesn't seem to get as much attention. Although a lot of these incidents against Repubs have been debunked (e.g. that teacher who claimed she was admonished simply for including Bush in a display of presidents and was later found to be lying), I won't go so far as to say that all claims of attacks on the left are real and all claims of attacks on the right are hoaxes. We don't really know the details here, so I will reserve judgment for now.

[patcox2]

38. We know enough.

The bush supporters were protesting, this person drives up and approaches them, then argues with them from inside his truck, then gets out of his truck and approaches close enough to smack the sign from someone's hand.

Sorry, but nothing about what this guy was doing was "defensive;" he approached, argued, got out of the car and approached closer. Its not going to work to theorize that maybe he defensively knocked the sign out of someone's hand because they were "waving it in his face."

Hey, I hope the gun nut gets jail time. But I also think people have to understand that being "alive" is better than being "right." This was provoked. It was very easily avoidable. I am not saying at all that it was justified, but it was provoked. You are a fool if you go through life assuming that all the people around you are always going to respond to you in accordance with the law. Thats why getting into arguments on streetcorners with loons is never a goood idea. Go get a pro-kerry sign and march on the opposite corner, so that your side is represented in the public forum. Thats a more positive and less dangerous response. Attempting to argue or shout down a protester is offensive when someone does it to us and equally wrong headed here.

[chimpy the poopthrower]

44. I agree the guy was foolish.

He was foolish and wrong to get out of his car and go over and start arguing with that group. That was foolish and wrong -- but not necessarily illegal. We don't know who committed the first violent act because the article doesn't say. It's only a theory that someone waved a sign in his face. Another possibility is that they actually tried to hit him with the sign. If that were the case, I think knocking the sign away is certainly defensive even if the guy was a fool for putting himself in that situation. But at this point we don't really know anything. He may have knocked the sign down without any provocation. It's not even been established that the other guy then pointed a gun at him. But I agree with you that the guy could have avoided all this if he'd just stayed in his truck.

[patcox2]

45. I am not meaning to jump all over the guy and blame him.

Noone should ever have a gun pulled on him or her.

I only bring it up to suggest that its not a situation which really merits reactions like "I am speechless." Nor should it lead to the conclusion that "the crazies in the south are going to start a second civil war if they lose."

Its just a redneck altercation, someone had a gun, the police generally will arrest the guy with the gun and confiscate the gun more to prevent anyone from getting drunk that night and go looking to shoot someone than anything else.

I lived in Vero Beach in the 1970s-80s, went to VBHS, not that bad a place, really.

[Horse1969]

35. I wish I was in Florida

Illinois is just about a lock (fingers crossed) for Kerry, it's not as wild as Florida is. I'd be getting REAL wild with these bible thumping, Shrub supporters.

[peacetalksforall]

39. I thought NRA lovers claimed that they only kept their guns in their

houses for protection. Isn't that what they LaPierre says?

[Bandit]

41. Any person that would pull a gun on an unarmed person is a Coward

That guy was scared shitless or he would never have pulled a gun. If he was half a man he would have handled the problem in other ways. The more stories like this I hear about the more I realize just how cowardly and scared the Republicans really are. They try and put up a big front but in reality they are terrified. That is why they love Bush* so much. He tells them he can protect them. Not only are they extreme cowards but they are pretty stupid to boot.

[Edmond Dantes]

50. In this case, no. Quick-draw McBush was flexing his "muscle".

[henslee]

42. To release him on his own recognizance is total BS. Sends bad message.

[Edmond Dantes]

49. Was man who aimed car at K Harris released on own recognizance? eom

[henslee]

51. TWDMAR (2 wrongs don't...)

[Edmond Dantes]

53. I know. And a gun is not a car. Asking out of curiosity, wondering...

whether Harris had more "pull" with authorities.

[Dhalgren]

46. The next two months or so will be awful.

I am afraid that we will be doing body counts before this ends...

[Edmond Dantes]

48. It will give Chimpy an excuse for declaring martial law. eom

[Dhalgren]

54. Well, we need to get to it using the "Chicago Rules".

"Are You Ready For The Country"

Slipping and sliding
and playing domino
Lefting and then Righting,
it's not a crime you know.
You gotta tell your story boy,
before it's time to go.

Are you ready for the country
because it's time to go?
Are you ready for the country
because it's time to go?

I was talkin' to the preacher,
said God was on my side
Then I ran into the hangman,
he said it's time to die
You gotta tell your story boy,
you know the reason why.

Are you ready for the country
because it's time to go?
Are you ready for the country
because it's time to go?

Neil Young

[CBHagman]

47. Are you certain it's not Michael Barone?

He's one of the nastier pundits in my book. The similarity of names struck me...

[pdx_prog]

55. It's going to get crazy people

anything you do to provoke these idiots will not end up good...