Okla. Sen. Candidate's Remark Draws Fire (Coburn)

[Bossy Monkey]

Oct 28, 8:43 PM EDT

Okla. Sen. Candidate's Remark Draws Fire

By RON JENKINS
Associated Press Writer

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) -- A remark from a U.S. Senate candidate that black males have a "genetic predisposition" for a lower life expectancy has created a new furor in what has been an especially tight - and nasty - campaign.

Black legislators Thursday blasted former congressman Tom Coburn, saying his remark implied that black males are genetically inferior.

In a television debate Wednesday, the Republican said black males are being penalized by the Social Security system "because they had a genetic predisposition to have less of a life expectancy."

In a statement, Democratic state Sen. Angela Monson, chairwoman of the Black Legislative Caucus, said blacks are insulted by anyone suggesting "that they are genetically inferior and thus predisposed to die before they reach retirement age."

(more)
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/S/SENATE_OKLAHOMA?SITE=SCCOL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

[AIJ Alom]

1. What is it with these geniuses ????

Can they demean African Americans any further. First the caging issue and now genetics. JEEEZ !!!

[Xipe Totec]

How Strange

I didn't know that 'blackness' was genetic. I always thought it was cultural.

Seriously, what set of genetically inherited traits constitute blackness?

:shrug:

PS: Yea, Coburn is a jerk, and his statement is not the only reason.

[punpirate]

2. Wonder why no one...

... answering this nonsense hasn't said that perhaps it might be that blacks, discriminated against in the workplace, end up lower on the economic ladder and have poorer access to health care. ???

[AspenRose]

40. *ding* *ding* *ding*

Race, biologically speaking, doesn't exist...it is a social construct.

It's the (racist) environmental and social hazards that lower life expectancy, not "genetics."

We can't have white people touting the 'athletic superiority' of blacks one minute and then saying they're genetically inferior the next. Make up your minds.

[punpirate]

42. Hubba, hubba...

... ding, ding dong, maybe Coburn is all wrong. :P

[papau]

3. Coburn is nuts to say that!

but that is good!

the "innocent explanation" will be too complicated - even if he meant that there is an advantage to not saving in SS, but rather saving in an account - since if you are starving and will die before retirement age, you at least have an estate to pay for a better funeral!

:-)

[deadmessengers]

4. Foot, meet mouth.

Holy crap, that man has a talent for putting his foot in his mouth. I might actually go so far as to speculate that he's better at it than Shrub himself.

[Cocoa]

5. isn't Coburn an M.D.?

then again, wasn't Mengele an M.D.?

[yardwork]

6. I like it when Republicans reveal their true selves like this

Bill Clinton reminded us that Republicans have to lie, because if people knew what they really thought and what they were really do, nobody would vote for them.

Every now and then a Repuke slips up and accidentally says what he/she/it really thinks. Like Coburn did today.

[truthisfreedom]

7. ironically, he worded it poorly, but it's basically true.

from:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=1769

Social Security's Raw Deal for Blacks
By National Center for Policy Analysis
FrontPageMagazine.com | July 10, 2002


African Americans rely more heavily than other demographic groups on Social Security for their retirement income. According to the Cato Institute, three of four black retirees rely on Social Security for half or more of their retirement income, and 37 percent rely on Social Security for all of their income.


Although Social Security's rate of return is dismal for all Americans, it is particularly bad for African Americans:
According to an NCPA study, a 20-year-old black male can expect a real rate of return of only 0.73 percent, while a white male can expect a return of 1.82 percent.

White 20-year-old males can expect 47 cents in benefits for every $1 they pay in taxes; 20-year old black males can expect to receive only 34 cents.
This is so because the rate of return on Social Security taxes paid is inherently linked to length of life, and blacks have a shorter average life expectancy than whites across all income levels.
The average life expectancy at birth for a black male is 67.8 years, while a white male can expect to live to age 73.9.

Average life expectancy for a black woman is 74.7, compared to 79.4 for whites.

Thus a black male can expect to pay Social Security taxes his entire working life but receive less than a year of benefits. White females will collect benefits for almost 5 years longer than black women.

And blacks average nearly $21,000 less than whites in lifetime Social Security benefits, according to President Bush's Commission to Strengthen Social Security.
Furthermore, blacks are more likely than whites to enter the work force at a younger age. But since Social Security ignores up to a decade's worth of payroll tax payments in calculating benefits, they get no extra benefits for their extra work.



Source: Christopher L. Dodson (NCPA intern), "African Americans Benefit Most from Personal Retirement Accounts," Brief Analysis No. 404, July 9, 2002, National Center for Policy Analysis.


For text http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba/ba404/

[Thaddeus]

8. Check your sources

Front page magazine is a Daviod Horowitz production. The National Center for Policy Analysis is a conservative think tank. Without looking too deep into this, it strikes me as rubbish.

One edit: not to mention that the republican was saying that african american men had a *genetic predisposition* for dying earlier -- really scary stuff no matter what he was trying to say.

[truthisfreedom]

14. well, do a google check, it's obvious that there is a lifetime difference.

it's such a sensitive issue that wording makes all the difference...

another irony is that if you really study what he was saying, and read the statistics, it does look like black males end up carrying an undue portion of the burden. he should have had his comments read by someone sensitive enough to rewrite them. it's just that clunky repug style that always makes them shoot themselves in the foot. as far as i'm concerned, this same argument could be made in favor of the Democratic positions on many issues facing black Americans today. he just managed to mangle it and make it sound like he's into eugenics somehow.

the real issue here is that since black males have shorter lifetimes, we really need to concentrate on health care to get everyone's lifetimes up.

[Blasphemer]

9. The problem is the "genetic" argument

The life expectancy difference is known but making an unfounded genetic argument is just stupid.

[yardwork]

12. It's true that African Americans have lower life expectancies

The contention that this is caused by genetics is totally unfounded.

African Americans face more obstacles to accessing health care.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

13. Not just access to health care, something about all those who

don't make it to their 20th birthday due to gun violence tends to skew the average down quite a bit too.

[eridani]

22. Actually, African Americans over 65 have higher life expectancies--

--than the general population over 65. Same for the US population over 65 compared to Europeans over 65. Deny people health care, and people who are genetically disadvantaged don't get to live to be 65 in the first place. The survivors are tougher.

(A side comment in a Scientific American article about aging a few years back--can't find the URL.)

[Cocoa]

15. stooping pretty low

of course, to defend racism one has to stoop low, and quote FrontPageRag.

[fob]

21. You're citing NCPA, here? This is one of the main RWer talking points,

whereby racists claim they are supportive of minorities by showing they care so much about them that they are willing to destroy SS because SS is racist due to the fact that minorities have shorter lifespans!

This is the BS group that my repub friends use to justify all sorts of crazy R stances.

I can't wait til you post their tirade on Canada's Healthcare system.


Hoo boy.

[NorthernSpy]

32. misuse of stats to pathologize blacks & bash social security

To a great extent, the reality here is that blacks are disproportionately likely to die young -- as a result of accidental injury or homicide, for instance. You have ignored the age distribution. As other posters have noted, elderly blacks actually tend to outlive elderly whites.

One thing that I have noticed is that most of American society displays a strong need to view blacks as pathological -- and, moreover, inherently, genetically pathological. In fact, from methamphetamine abuse to breast cancer, there are quite a few serious social and medical problems that affect blacks considerably less than they affect whites. But these facts rarely get much press. I suspect that most Americans, including most blacks, are under the impression that being black is some kind of dire "risk factor" for damn near everything.

It isn't.


Mary

[Terran]

43. Say, will you be "coming out" on November 2nd? n/t

[goforit]

10. Well, when the President and his father believe in ethnic cleansing,.....

Yah, you better start fighting litterally for your life!!!!

[blm]

11. DEMAND REFUTATION from J C Watts. Cause a stir. Strip off the masks.

.

[gasperc]

16. the gift that keeps giving

I'm not sure if he wants to double the benefit for minorities since they will die much earlier than whites

or

he is genuily heartbroken that minorities won't live as long as him and get to enjoy the benefits of retirements longer like checks from the government

oh, wait, he's pissed that minorities die sooner and won't be paying into social security like all the white people that live and work way past age 67, darn those minorites that die in thier late 50s and early 60s, shame on them for not paying into SS until 67 like all the good hard working white people. It's not fair that they die before us, its just not fair.

:silly:

[Toronto Ron]

17. This guy and the candidate in SC (DeMint)

What a pair of sick, dangerous, Nazi slimebuckets. As if the Senate needs two more Santorums.

[snippy]

38. "sick, dangerous, Nazi slimebuckets" = republicans. n/t

[Gothmog]

18. What an idiot

This guy is really trying to lose.

He also sterilized minorities without their consent early in his career as a doctor. There was an amusing explanation why consent was not needed someplace.

[Pithy Cherub]

19. What a republican Okie Dopey!

n/t

[Maat]

20. Confronted my rightwing family in OK about the sterilizations.

Didn't know the ethnicity of the victims. But I bet they were ebony or some other shade of brown in terms of skin color. Hubby and I stated our belief that there was rarely a reason to sterilize an underage child, except in the most dire of circumstances. It was immoral.

And especially with 'oral consent.'

Got some goofy reply back that sometimes doctors had to do what they thought was best - uh... in terms of what medically benefitted the patient, or something.

Both of 'em sound full of * to me - her and the Senate candidate she intended to vote for.

[Pithy Cherub]

23. Good On YOU!

:toast:

[OKNancy]

34. No actually

the woman who made the news was white.
I agree with you on one point - Coburn is full of shit.

[ramapo]

24. Oklahoma is another planet

It should at least be its' own country

[On the Road]

27. Hey, in 1910 I Think It Was

there was a race riot in Tulsa during which Okies flew over black neighborhoods in biplanes and dropped dynamite. I think that was a unique Oklanhoma moment.

[karlrschneider]

25. I've known Tom Coburn very well and very personal since he was a teen.

I was chief pilot of his dad's company (Coburn Optical Industries) for many years starting in 1968 (Tommy was just out of high school, and he was a petulant prick even back then)...I have flown him all over the country, he always had something sarcastic to say. His dad (my boss) was one of the most active sexual men I've ever known. He tried hundreds to times to get me to find him a young lady to fuck. I wouldn't do it and we were in conflict over that for a very long time.
(Generally, corporate pilots will arrange those kinds of assignations, but I liked his wife who was and still is a nice person and I'd decline)
I actually got fired once over crap like that, but was shortly after begged to "come back". (I think mostly because of Tom's uncle John and his brother Jim who thought I was a great pilot...which I am :D)

[loudsue]

29. Wow! Interesting story, karlschneider!

Coburn sounds like a spoiled little rich boy... I'll bet he & shrub would get along -- well, like they each should have their own way!

O8) May he lose the election SOUNDLY! O8)

:kick::kick::kick:

[SoCalDem]

26. Sadly, he was a bit right..

The genetic predisposition to have dark skin, makes them more likely to be falsely accused of crimes they did not commit,less likely to get the "great" jobs, more likely to have to accept a lower level lifestyle that often does not include good healthcare..and THOSE circumstances can indeed, lead to a shorter lifespan.

[depakid]

28. Exactly

Epidemiological studies indicate that blacks do indeed have shorter life expectancies and have higher mortality rates for many common diseases than whites- but in most cases, that has do to socioeconomic factors NOT to genetic predisposition per se.

Hard to believe this guy made it through med school. Harder still, considering some of his past history, that he still has a license to practice.

[UCLA Dem]

30. I think he wants to loose...being a Repuke is too hard ...all that lying..

its exhausting!!

[Behind the Aegis]

31. Try living in Oklahoma!

I live in Oklahoma, in a small town, and we (my sinful, homosexual partner and I) always have to see that sanctimonious cracker on TV...of course, in my opinion, Brad Carson, his opponent, is not much better. Talk about having to choose between the lesser of two evils! The thing is his statement will probably get him a few more votes! This state has an active Klan, Nazis, and uber-right-wing Christians (Elohim City). Hell, I have even heard the word "Colored" used in conversations in public and people barely bat an eye! Sometimes, it feels like this state has been left behind (must be underfunding from Shrub) the rest of the nation. There are a few liberals and even moderates, but we are GREATLY outnumbered! It is almost like going back in time!

[OKNancy]

36. Hey, see if you can move to Tulsa

No cares if you are gay or not around here. We have a nice gay pride parade and not a bit of trouble. Of course, I work in the arts community so maybe I'm a bit sheltered.

[Blaq Dem]

33. Fool don't know a damn thing about black people...

That republican candidate most likely never been around black people. How can he say something so stupid.

As a matter of fact, I can count several generations of black men in my family who lived to be 80 up to 100. And this was immediately after slavery! And they owned land inspite of the laws that told they could not do so.

[KitSileya]

37. That was probably one of the reasons

The moment their life conditions became a smidgen better than they had been, your ancestors thrived. Owning land, being proud of what they achieved also contributed, I bet.

Life expectancy has nothing to do with genes when it comes to the overall population - in individuals it counts - but their health care, diet, and other conditions of life count. African Americans have consistently worse life conditions, hence their lower life expectancy. I'm sure the life expectancy of the average American is headed downwards, just like their average height, because of healthcare and diet.

KitSileya

[Skittles]

35. these f***ing assholes still exist????

:puke:

[Catfight]

39. What Century am I in? Please remind me. n/t

[juslikagrzly]

41. Even my mom, who will probably vote *

thinks this guy is psychotic (her words). My God, it's embarrassing to be from this state.