Bin Laden: U.S. Can Avoid Another Attack

[InformedSource]

Osama claims credit for 9/11 (that's the October surprise?)

Bin Laden accused Bush of misleading Americans by saying the attack was carried out because al-Qaida "hates freedom." The terrorist leader said his followers have left alone countries that do not threaten Muslims.


"We fought you because we are free ... and want to regain freedom for our nation. As you undermine our security we undermine yours," bin Laden said.

Bin Laden suggested Bush was slow to react to the Sept. 11 attacks, giving the hijackers more time than they expected. At the time of the attacks, the president was listening to schoolchildren in Florida reading a book.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=1&u=/ap/20041029/ap_on_re_mi_ea/bin_laden_tape

[MichiganVote]

1. And while Bush read a book you took out over 3000 people fuckhead

I think we can figure it out.

[0007]

2. The freepers must be going out of their fucking minds!

"It appeared to him (Bush) that a little girl's talk about her goat and its butting was more important than the planes and their butting of the skyscrapers. That gave us three times the required time to carry out the operations, thank God," he said."

Can you believe this? This is so un-real. Poor junior and that his heart bud that's loaded for BEAR.

[AwareOne]

3. Is this a Karl Rove stunt

a fake transcript of OBL that reads like a Kerry ad bashing Bush? I guess we're all suppose to rally around Bush now that the Bogey man has threatened us again.

[w4rma]

5. No. This is Osama. Rove edited the tape before it was released, tho.

There were parts cut out of the tape. (US Govt had OBL tape edited before broadcast - Andrea Mitchell)

You can tell it was Osama by the details he provides and the way he speaks. What surprises me is that it doesn't sound like he's been hiding out in a hole in the ground like Saddam was. It sounds like Osama has access to the news and has been paying close attention. It sounds like Osama is holed up in a nice comfortable place somewhere.

[paritom]

9. Truly Bin Laden?

It may sound like him (sounds more like a Rovian imitation of anti-Bush talking points to me), but does it look like him?
Osama II
Remember there has already been one faked Osama video...

[Carolab]

17. Oh, for shit's sake, people

If ROVE, et al didn't want this thing released, it wouldn't have been released. IT'S THAT SIMPLE. There is a reason they released it. They were floating a "trial" balloon to see how folks would respond, IMO.

[Demeter]

48. Rove Can't Control The Internet

and I hope that fact is growing him an ulcer!

[drdtroit]

21. Like the Lincoln bedroom? n/t

[LisaL]

22. Yep, Osama sure seems very knowledgeable on what is going on

in the world. Also, does anybody find it peculiar that he says US can avoid attacks? Doesn't he usually say US will be attacked?

[Demeter]

47. Looks Like Osama Had a Kidney Transplant

I hear China does a brisk retail business selling body parts out of their "chop shops".

[shampton]

70. Osama has been Gandolfed

Osama really looked the icon he is, studio lighting and all. I agree, he looks damn healthy.
That link you provided is blocked.

[Windy]

13. This tape isn't a Rove trick. I monitor terrorist website information

and this tape has been expected for about 9 months.
I do think its possible that the "American terrorist" was a plant, but who knows.

Everyone needs to keep a watchful eye out.

Bush took his eye off the ball and I hope to god that we are not going to suffer again for his utter incompetence! Bush has so much blood on his hands. Those that died on 911, the US soldiers sent on a totally selfish and senseless mission , and over 100,000 innocent Iraqis by last count. I hope we don't loose more of our citizens because of this man. Unfortunately, if the worst happens, we've squandered our international reputation and angered our allies. Our troops are spread thin. How in the world are we going to protect ourselves?

Please everyone. Get out there and work for the Kerry Campaign this weekend!!!!!! Its CRITICAL that we defeat Bush and his circle of ignorance!

[allalone]

6. wait

I haven't seen tha tape yet. He said "thank god"? god? not allah?

[bling bling]

7. The translator may have said "God" where

Bin Laden said "Allah." I don't know, though, I haven't heard it for myself, I have only seen the transcript. Interesting point, though.

If not that, there is something *not right* about all this. I just feel it.

[MetalFingersDOOM]

8. Allah translates to God -nt-

[0007]

10. You think the White House made this tape?

[Carolab]

19. Yeah, and he supposedly also said

"mess with". "Mess with"? Does that sound like "terrorist" talk to you?

[Chico Man]

44. Maybe he watches John Stewart

We are making a "Mess-o-potamia", right?

[Nikepallas]

4. This is going to hurt Bush election

If people actually listen to the words of OBL and not the spin people place on it. If this was a stunt it BACKFIRED

[Gregorian]

11. Bin Laden's right. I've been saying this all along.

If we knock it off, they won't bother us.
It's like someone is raping your mother, for the third time, and so you finally decide to fight back. The guy is a giant- there's no way you can fight him, and so you wait until he's asleep to attack him. To anyone who sees the crime scene, you are guilty of assault. But had he not done what he did, you'd never have had a reason to mess with him.
I give Bin Laden a lot more credit than most people. I know people didn't just come over to America to terrorize us. That's bullshit. They're sick and tired of what we're doing to their world. And now, he's just come out and plainly said so.
I blame the politics of America for the downing of those buildings. We'll never have another terrorist attack again, if we just keep our nose out of these other countries. But we will have more attacks on our country, even with this so-called Homeland Security, if we don't stop screwing the rest of the world. I think it's that simple.

[Kenneth ken]

14. I agree with you.

On the day of the attacks, I considered what was struck. The WTC - a symbol of America's corporate greed; and the Pentagon - a symbol of the weapons America provides to despots around the world to enforce its pursuit of greed.

Basically, America's foreign policy has always been, if you have what we want, we will either trade with you (if you give us a good deal) or we will take it by force.

A couple months ago I read Imperial Hubris, and what I concluded is that bin Laden attacked, then gave us until this election to oust the Bush* administration, and subsequently change our foreign policy.

I posted here on a thread about why we hadn't been attacked since 9-11 that we had a reprieve until after the election. If Bush* wins, I expect another attack any time after Wednesday. If Kerry wins, an attack will be postponed until possibly next summer, to see if we change foreign policy.

Last chance to avoid total war, I believe.

[Fair Elections]

16. You've Got to be Kidding!!!!

We deserved to be attacked. 3000 innocent people deserved to die! Did you know anyone who died that day? I did and he certainly didn't deserve it!

What the hell did we do to him that you compare to "raping your mother for the third time?" There is no justification for what he did. NONE.

[davhill]

34. Likewise there is no

Justification for the tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians we have killed. NONE.

[Cats Against Frist]

35. And 100,000 Iraqis deserved to die in retalliation????

Are you listening to yourself? The poster is DEAD ON. And he did not say that they "deserved to die," -- you're a professional freeper no?


Statement before digested by right-wing echo chamber:

"They hit us in retalliation for American foreign policy."

Statement when "laundered clean" by the right-wing echo chamber:

"Those people deserved to die. I HATE AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!"

GIVE
ME
A
FUCKING
BREAK
PLEASE

[truth2power]

46. YOU'VE got to be kidding, Fair..

This argument has been making the rounds for 3 years now. Here's the thing. Let's say you (not you personally - read on) are a particularly egregious a**hole, stomping around your neighborhood making life miserable for your neighbors...kicking their dogs, terrorizing their families etc. This goes on for a long while and somehow law enforcement can't or won't do anything about it.

Your long-suffering family knows your an asshole, but they're not able to do anything about it. Maybe they're terrorized by you, also. They certainly don't wish your neighbors any harm.

Well, one night, one of your neighbors, in a rage, sets fire to your house, which burns down, killing your wife and children. You, however, are out of town on business, and survive.

Now, did your wife and children deserve to die? Of course not! Were they innocent victims of your disgusting behavior? I would say so. But I think that it could be predicted that someone, somewhere, would eventually plot revenge for what they've suffered at your hands. It's not right, but it's predictable. I think Chalmers Johnson and others called this "Blowback".

So, saying that we brought 911 on ourselves, or to put it in a less inflammatory way, that our govt. policies would have had a predictable result, is not the same as saying that the people who died on 911 deserved to die. Of course they didn't. Unfortunately, it's always the innocents who pay.

I think Americans need to stop thinking that terrorist attacks happen in a vacuum, and look at the larger picture. Someone, in a LTE, wrote, "A person doesn't blow themselves up in a crowded restaurant because there's not enough ice in their coke." This was, of course in reference to the I/P situation, but it's a useful metaphor overall.

Think about what it would take for you to strap explosives to your body, walk into a crowd and pull the pin. Only if you believed you had nothing to lose.

We are not blameless.

[ldf]

55. excellent response

i think we hve been given an opening.

we can either take advantage of it, or be resigned to living in a similar atmosphere as israel, under perpetual attack.

bin laden, in the video, says it doesn't matter who is elected (since both candidates are spouting revenge), but it is up to the american people to put a stop to the interference in the muslim world.

so we, as americans, have to decide is it worth the "blowback" to try to go into these countries and try to turn them into little americas.

that is a hard question to answer. do we want to stand back and allow these paternalistic societies to continue without progressing to more fair, civil and equal societies? do we want them to treat women equally and fairly, instead of as property to be done with as they please?

can we sit back and look the other way, in order to not live in a state of terror?

i don't know the answer to that question.

i only know that kerry will do a better job at trying to come to a reasonable answer. bush has proven that he is not up to the task.

[truth2power]

56. If only that had been our goal.

If only all the meddling we've done in the affairs of other countries all these years had been in the service of equal opportunities for women or for more civil societies.

But of course that hasn't been our goal. Iran, Vietnam, Nicarauga, Guatamala...well, you get the idea. We have never been interested in promoting democracy. We've been interested in advancing our particular version of maurading capitalism.

The propagandists say, of course, "democracy, democracy." Bullshit!! Whatever country isn't promoting the economic interests of the US of A might as well bend over and prepared to be screwed! I find that to be shameful.

[study_war_no_more]

64. Manifest Destiny?

To build a Wal mart in Bagdad?
I dont think this tape was for Bush and the Neo cons but for the rest of the world and the people of America.

[shampton]

72. It's Palestine.

Yes, we have a short reprieve and this is an open door for us.
bin Laden tells us exactly why we are a target for the Muslim and Arab world: Palestine. No matter where the U.S. makes war, Palestine is the center of the conflict.
The Question of Palestine is a 50-plus-year-old injustice that has continued unabated. The U.S. supports Israel blindly. There are many reasons--political, cultural, economics--for this. The problem occurs when the U.S. tries to broker a peace between the two while being strongly pro-Israel. We cannot afford to be blind to the suffering of this Arab people and pretend neutrality. We must be fair and support reconciliation efforts, redress wrongs and forgive. I do not want to live like Israel, but it appears that Bush wants us to imitate them.
Our foreign policy has placed us squarely behind the eight ball. A change would be historic.
He certainly dislikes Bush. (It must have grated on him, hearing "They hate our freedom" so many times...) If Rove left these parts in, what more injurious parts were deleted? And how long before we have a complete copy?

[da_chimperor]

18. I agree with you in the sense that the US created bin laden

but I disagree that we should just leave him alone. I'd prefer to stick his head on a pike, while re-working our foreign policy in regards to the middle east. I do think that US foreign policy is responsible for creating him, though I don't think that is a reason to just leave him be.

[Cats Against Frist]

36. So then who goes to jail for say 50,000 Iraqi women & children

There's a lot of fucking "moral relativism" going on here.

[da_chimperor]

45. Bush does of course

along with all of those behind the invasion. Uh, moral relativism? I haven't been keeping up with this thread. I guess i've missed quite a bit.

[OhioChick]

23. Well Said....

It seems as though some are getting tired of the US having their hands in other countries pockets, so to speak. The man is very intelligent, unfortunately many US citizens are not and do not see the whole picture. (Concerning the current Administration)

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OhioChick]

26. Not a Sicko

and don't need help. Maybe it's time that the US changed it's foreign policy and was less dependent on foreign oil?

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Grateful]

30. Sounds nice, but are we willing to drill in ANWR?

In the short to medium term, I see this (drilling in ANWR) as an essential step in weening ourselves off Mid-East oil. The US consumes 20 million barrels of crude oil per day. 12 million of that demand is imported, of which only 2.5 million comes from the Persian Gulf States (aka Middle East). ANWR production estimates average 1.5 million barrels per day....a sizeable replacement to Middle East imports......think about these simple facts before flaming away.....

[Grateful]

31. Sounds nice, but are we willing to drill in ANWR?

In the short to medium term, I see this (drilling in ANWR) as an essential step in weening ourselves off Mid-East oil. The US consumes 20 million barrels of crude oil per day. 12 million of that demand is imported, of which only 2.5 million comes from the Persian Gulf States (aka Middle East). ANWR production estimates average 1.5 million barrels per day....a sizeable replacement to Middle East imports......think about these simple facts before flaming away.....

[Grateful]

32. Sounds nice, but are we willing to drill in ANWR?

In the short to medium term, I see this (drilling in ANWR) as an essential step in weening ourselves off Mid-East oil. The US consumes 20 million barrels of crude oil per day. 12 million of that demand is imported, of which only 2.5 million comes from the Persian Gulf States (aka Middle East). ANWR production estimates average 1.5 million barrels per day....a sizeable replacement to Middle East imports......think about these simple facts before flaming away.....

[NickB79]

33. Well, it would take 5-10 yrs to get ANWR online

By then we'd be consuming quite a bit more than "just" 20 million bpd of oil (assuming we don't hit another recession and actually get out of our current one), so our overall return from ANWR would be a smaller percentage than today. Also, 5-10 yrs from now, with China's demand for oil booming and oil production falling in most foreign countries, Mid-East oil will probably be imported at more than 2.5 million barrels by then, so we'd need more out of ANWR to replace it. I have read thoroughly about ANWR, and at 1.5 million bpd, the projected life of the reserve is under 20 yrs, possibly under 15 yrs. Currently the Alaskan Pipeline, opened in the 1970's, is seeing increasingly diminishing returns, despite being only ~30 yrs old and pumping from a much larger reserve than what ANWR is estimated at. ANWR isn't a short to medium term measure to ween ourselves off Mid-east oil; it is a really short to short term measure. The only thing that would really ween us off of Mid-East oil is a) conservation, ie dump the damn SUV's and walk more, b) better public transportation, and c) renewable fuels and new next-generation nuclear powerplants. If you think ANWR would in any way help reduce gas prices or fuel bill costs, you are kidding yourself.

[devinsgram]

40. Well said

Some here are doing there homework.

[mulethree]

67. time and price

They couldn't get 15 years of oil out of ANWR at 1.5 MBL per day unless oil prices go way up. They figure 5-11 Billion barrels but only the first 2 billion pump out cheaply, figure 5 Billion at $70 per barrel and 9 billion at $200. At those prices (even current prices) there are other oilfields that become economical like a huge Saudi oilfield thats thick slop with high sulfur but could be dealt with at a profit as long as prices are high enough.

New nuclear will take more than 10 years to bring online, by then the older nuke plants will be shutting down - or at least be past their design service lives.

Unfortunately the plan seems to be America's 250 year supply of coal. http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0226/p01s04-sten.html But many planned plants put profits over pollution controls. Hmm I wonder if the stocks of coal mining companies have gone up yet, or the companies that make the mining equipment?

Renewable energy development is unfortunately also shortsighted concentrating on getting large power plants to a price level that competes with current KWH prices. So you get solar research that only applies to large plants in the southwest desert or wind plants in 'prime wind' locations instead of smaller systems that could work in sub-prime locations. Smaller systems that could compete with a realistic future projected wholesale electric price or even with current retail prices. Similarly biodiesel research is turning toward "established" food crops like soybeans and canola which use tons of fertilizers per acre from fossil fuels. Turning away from more energy efficient non-food crops like algae or hemp which could be fed sewage and convert more sunlight to fuel.

Then theres the whole suburban and urban sprawl situation where jobs are far from houses and lowish population densities mean your public transit busses would be spaced so far apart and travelling such long circuitous routes that nobody wants to use them.

[HR_Pufnstuf]

68. If we have to do drill ANWR, my idea is that we..

..should NATIONALIZE it, and exploit it with a consortium of American companies, so as to retain 100% of the reserves for America, not 85% of the reserves to someone like BP (British Petroleum).

The British are Coming!

[Cats Against Frist]

37. ONCE AGAIN:

Statement before digested by the right-wing echo chamber:

"Bin Laden is intelligent."

Statement AFTER being "cleansed" by the right-wing echo chamber:

"Bin Laden is sooooo brilliant & I want to marry him, and ride off into the sunset with him, on a pink unicorn."

Do you dumb assholes know what you're doing to the discourse???

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cats Against Frist]

42. You just don't get it

I want you to explain how the simple statement: "Bin Laden is intelligent" equates to the speaker being either 1. a bin Laden sympathizer, or 2. someone who's searching for his bright spots.

You fucking Nazis are ruining the possibility of having an intelligent conversation about anything with your "false dilemmas."

I look at facts. I'm neither a blind loyalist sheep, nor an emotional, sentimental basket case. What's your fucking problem?

[devinsgram]

39. I guess then 46,000 innocent women and children don't

account for anything, it's ok to blow them to bits. As far as Clinton goes, he was actively hunting them down, while the little shrub did absolutely nothing and knew there was going to be an attack in the future. Who needs the help?

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cats Against Frist]

38. I don't even believe you're a freeptard

I just think you're trolling. What an obviously flame-baiting (and stupid) thing to say.

Yeah, see my sig -- "they hate us for our Internets."

[BUSHOUT]

57. He's not saying it's "our fault" Welcome to DU!

Try not to stir up shit for a while or you will go POOF!

[truth2power]

59. they hate us for our lifestyle???!

See my post above. I haven't listened to the tape. (It's difficult to listen to streaming-anything on my computer.) But OBL apparently said we should wonder why he didn't attack Sweden if we think he hates our freedom.

All I can say about that is it makes me wonder if that tape really is authentic. If so, he's cribbing from our very own DUers, who have been saying for the past year, "Why doesn't he attack Sweden if he hates freedom so much?" Sheesh! He should at least get original material.

That "fanatical Muslims" are perptrating these atrocities just because they hate our lifestyle is laughable in the extreme!

[Pax Argent]

61. Middle Eastern Right Wing Theocratic motivations aside

is it possible that they don't really care so much about our lifestyle/culture as they do about the fact that it is built on their blood and subjugation or maybe that for the past 50 years we have supported tyrannical regimes and bloodthirsty dictators as long as "bidness" was taken care of?

Do I need to remind you that the lead characters from this recent "terrorism" chapter of our history comes directly from our misadventures with OBL and Saddam in the eighties? Does it need to be repeated that we still support the Saudi Arabian regime despite the fact that it was their nobles that paid the freight for 9-11?

Could it be that the Arab world has first-hand experience of the hypocrisy of American foreign policy? Its hard to take the US seriously when it was OK for Saddam to gas Iranians 20 years ago but suddenly he's a mad dog threat to the world when it becomes convenient. Russia took Afghanistan in 1979 and they were foreign oppressors and OBL and his crew were freedom fighters and yet the US in Iraq are liberators and the people fighting them are terrorists. The moral relativity here is breathtaking.

This particularly violent and destructive form of Islam would have little or no purchase if it didn't have the anger and hopelessness of the Arab street to feed on.

All that being said, OBL and Saddam are irredeemably evil and need/needed to be stopped. I just wish the US would look seriously to its own behaviour in creating the monsters that we will be facing tomorrow. Nothing good ever grows from evil foundations.

[getoffmytrain]

58. kiss my ass.

[joeunderdog]

66. You're WAY overboard.

His politics, like ShrubCo's, don't justify killing innocent men, women and children.

[forgethell]

71. Unfortunately,

it is not possible not to interact with the res of the world. It is also not possible to please them all, all the time.

The blame for the terrorist attacks lies only with the terrorists and those that support them.

[UCLA Dem]

12. it all just seems a little fishy to me.

we haven't had a video from him in over a year and then all of a sudden the Friday before the election? way too coincidental.

[camero]

15. Funny he mentioned the Patriot Act

He's basically saying that Bush is doing his job for him.

[Carolab]

20. I THINK IT IS VERY COINCIDENTAL

Not just because it's right before the election, but also because a major 9/11 RICO lawsuit was just filed with the New York AG this week. How convenient to have OBL "admitting" guilt. Why would he do this? This is just not plausible that he would repeat it. We NEVER have had ANY proof that OBL did 9/11--REMEMBER? Just a bunch of video tapes. He's never been brought in and we've never heard a damn thing out of his mouth directly nor out of Zawahiri's.

[bloodyjack]

24. where can one access the unabridged translated transcript.

I guess I'll just be on my way to Al-Jazeera.

edit: found it. nevermind

[Whoa_Nelly]

52. Share your link?

I found this link re: transcript on Al-Jazeera:
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/79C6AF22-98FB-4A1C-B21F-2BC36E87F61F.htmand on that same page is a link to view the video.

Still, I don't trust any of this....:argh:

[bloodyjack]

65. here's the BBC transcript...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2751019.stm

[UDenver20]

43. CALL TO ACTION - Do for Kerry what he CAN'T do....

BOTH sides are saying "who does this hurt/help more?" Right now, no one knows because the public's reaction is going to say more than the video will. REMEMBER THE ESSENCE OF A MEDIA CYCLE: (Part 1: Report on the Story; Part 2: report on the story about the story).

FREEPER sites have people posting over and over about the correlation between UBL and Michael Moore's movie. Rather than see the obvious criticism of CHIMPY, they would rather believe that Moore has fueled Bin Laden. Next they'll say Kerry is fueling him through his dissent... This will be blaring all over EIB and FAUX news.

We need to be louder (much louder) with one simple message" "Kerry was right! We shouldn't have taken our eye of the ball! We should have stayed focused on UBL!"

We need to BLAST THE MEDIA
We need to CALL THE RADIO
We need to WRITE THE EDITOR

[bostonbabs]

54. I agree we could bombard Rush,Hannity,Beck and put them out of business

we need to be creative about getting our calls through.I would love to see a "national campaign"...

[PBX9501]

49. Fuck him, If caught he should go to SA. Queen of hearts

No matter who is president he is a motherfucker and deserves to die. Both guys have said this.

I hope he doesn't get shot, I hope he gets sent to the magic kingdom and receives the treatment he deserves. The monarchy does not really like him.

He killed people in the embassy bombings and on the USS Cole. This is about a systematic failing in the intelligence community.

[milburn]

50. Bush was slow

I saw that in the 9/11 movie. My mom says that it could have stoped if Bush was faster. I hope Senator Kerry will win this and then we can be safe in school and at home.

[Whoa_Nelly]

53. Welcome to DU, milburn!

:hi:

[Chicago Democrat]

63. Welcome!

[milburn]

69. thank you for welcom

I didnt just start. I posted my stuff a couple times now. Thank you and I want Kerry to win this contest.

[Sinnerman]

51. It's Amazing Karl Rove must think were stupid..

[truth2power]

60. Oh yeah, one other thing...

I can't understand why some here find it intolerable that OBL would have anything to say that happens to be on the mark. That doesn't mean you approve of what he does.

Just because someone is a convicted felon, for example, doesn't mean that nothing they say has any value. What's that logical fallacy? I don't have time to look it up right now. Gotta go.

[shampton]

73. hate the messenger

In this case, we may heartily hate the messenger but still listen to the message. This is the clearest statement yet of the "why" to 9/11--which is not to say that our precious fellow Americans deserved to die that day. It's not the same thing at all.
We need to take stock of our place in the world and how we relate to other countries if we are to live on it in any kind of peace.

[Chicago Democrat]

62. Hey Osama! FUCK YOU!! The days of incopetent American leaders

are over!

I don't even kill flies, but I would tear Osama apart with wild animals for amusement....