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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 10:00 PM
Original message
L.A. Times reports a major loss in circulation numbers
Los Angeles Daily News

L.A. Times reports a major loss in circulation numbers

By Gregory J. Wilcox
Staff Writer


The Los Angeles Times on Thursday announced one of the worst circulation losses ever for its weekday and Sunday editions with daily paid delivery falling below 1 million copies.

For the year's first six months, the Times said average daily circulation was 902,164, a decline of 5.6 percent or 53,048 subscribers.

Sunday delivery averaged 1.3 million papers, a drop of 6.3 percent or 86,984 papers.

The announcement came as the Times' parent company, Chicago-based Tribune Co., announced a sharp decline in profit and as it deals with the problems caused by two of its properties inflating circulation numbers.

More..
http://www.dailynews.com/Stories/0,1413,200~20950~2498592,00.html#


Gregory J. Wilcox, (818) 713-3743 greg.wilcox@dailynews.com

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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. Is this the real story to their loss?
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The Zanti Regent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Maybe if they went back to being a newspaper
They've sucked ever since Otis Chandler left and the paper moved way to the right.

Once I loved to see the latest Conrad salvo, I could care less about that racist bigot Nazi Ramirez!
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Exactly
Ever since Tribune took over the LA Times, the paper has gone downhill and has taken a distinctly right turn. I've talked to more than a few of my friends who've noticed this too and are very unhappy about it. One of them in fact cancelled their subscription because of what she felt was excessive pandering.

Big mistake on their part- from a business perspective.
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BrendaStarr Donating Member (491 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #7
21. The LA Times contributes a lot
I don't work for it. I don't have any reason to pimp for the paper, but like other good newspapers you can find a lot of the truth about the Bush administration that you can't find elsewhere in the Times. Unlike so many smaller ones the Trib does carry it's own world news staff that will call up Russians and find out why, for example Putin seems to be campaigning for Bush)

I have spent 4 years gleaning the truth from news sources and you can find out things from the LA Times that are not coming from other sources even the other big papers like the Tribune, NY Times, and Washington Post.

The problem is that we think that sitting in our liberal groups and whining is all the work we have to do for most of each 4 year campaign period. Right now what we really need to do is get the news and truths we know out to mixed message boards.

As some of the better political analysts point out, that all of the 4 years of campaigning is being used by Republicans while the Democratic rank and file only get engaged in the official campaign year in a way that reaches the rest of the nation.

No matter, right now we need to do what we need to do for the next few days to try to win this one.

Get out on the mixed boards and tell the rest of America what we know.

This is the time of the highest interest!

There are still people who are deciding.

Then later, what we really need to do is to make sure that we glean every bit of truth about Republicans and what is going on in the world and then pass it on (to each other of course here on DU) but also to the rest of the nation a large part of whom are online and in message boards.

You don't have to stay with political message boards unless the rules state, and the Republicans do not stick to them.

So it's good to get around to boards covering all your interests, because the Rs are passing lies there that support Bush. And a lot of their message boarding is supported by unreported campaign donations from businesses and non-profits that are set up to look like they support business.

We don't seem to have any support for message boarders. So we are going to have to do it ourselves.

What we need to do:

1. Get the truth that is hidden deep within articles and bring it forth for our own people here.

2. Then get it out to the rest of the US anyway possible. Message boards, chats, freeway blogging, notes in books, posters etc.

You can do regular blogs, but remember that no matter how much we try to rehash the same thing that other bloggers are covering it won't do any good. Either cover new stuff for our people or do something that will help get the truth out to the "Independents".

And we need to be brutally smart with the bloggers we support. We regularly have some of our most popular bloggers putting down our own candidates and leaders, constantly. The Republicans couldn't think up a better tactic to destroy us if they tried. I don't like to think that those misguided bloggers are trolls, but, rather assume it is just easier to complain about what you have than to actually join in the hard effort to change things. But I no longer support bloggers that put down our own people. I won't even read their blogs.

We and our bloggers should be fighting for ideas if we want to change our own party. And in fact if you want a an example, Gray Davis of California was told to play to his base to win the recall. He did and he lost. Because we have not paved the way for our ideas to gain acceptance out there in the real world.

Our elected leaders can't do it. They have to get elected and each and every word they say is recorded to be used against them later by the Republicans.

We are the foot soldiers. We are the ones that can fight the political wars for them and for our families.

No matter what the soldiers at Valley Forge suffered, it would have done no good if all they ever did was sit around that town and bitch. It's what they did after that winter that won the war for us. It seems like we have been sitting around the VF camp for 3.7 years at least. (I think our real decline actually started before we lost the Congress.)

It's time to get out there. And anyway, it's never winter on the Internet, not to mention on of the most effective attacks of the Revolution came in the dead of winter on Xmas day.

3) Be smart about your news. Get what you need . Save the important points and/or contribute to the usenet saving of information. Some people are saving entire articles to usenet (easiest is to enter through google groups-set up an account--mailinator.com adresses work fine). It is unconscionable that not only are our candidates s are forced to spend money just to get more than one sound bite a day out, but that our news which is supposed to be the 4th branch of government gets to bury their info under subscriptions and after 1-2 weeks paid archives. Saving an article with important information in usenet has been taken up by many as a way to break this suppression of information. Most save entire articles, especially include the title for search purposes. If you want to find the text of an article searching on its full title (in the Google groups search bar) will bring it near the top if it's there because all the word matches. But it won't be there if someone hasn't done the work of saving good articles, so join the effort there too. Try alt.politics.gw-bush for a basic start. It's infected big time from alt.fan.rush-limbaugh etc. due to the crossover posting allowed, but you can ignore them.

My family and a few friends did have news blogs aimed at the independent minded people, but an internet attack destroyed our ability to create them and no we have no intention of creating a blogspot place basic design as it is not conducive to any organization of info that I can see (unless the bloggers out there are ignoring those capabilities). We did create a news forum, and yes it is open to others. This forum is aimed at other than liberals and is trying to get the real facts to them. We are looking people who are interested in helping. I think the instructions at the bottom say it all.

We may try going back to blog style when we re-achieve the ability to create our own (requires saving all our info and f-disking so may take months) possibly with a blogspot front so others that may have joined our group can participate, but with some kind of organized, searchable archives.

Our forum is at: http://www.network54.com/Forum/341201 It is also a N54 premium forum so the parent site won't try to install Gator (aka GAIN) stuff on your computer (unless we see more than 100k page views something we are far from now). (If a request for GAIN installation does popup just say no, it's nasty spyware, and we will adjust the payment plan if we find we have gone over the magic 100k mark).

I hope the instructions are decent at the bottom of the front page. We should add that posts to the forum will disappear after you have posted them for your first few until a moderator has seen and approved them. After 5 approved posts you should be able to post as a regular in which case your future posts will show up and keep showing up when you post.

Also we all link to the forum from our posts on mixed boards to give the people who read our posts out there in the mixed board world a way to learn a lot of news they aren't going to get from their local headline news program.

For some of our young people all their info on the world of politics comes from mixed chats and message boards and links from the same. The Republicans are there, we should be too.

Especially for the next few days. give us all you have. If the Rs put you down remember that tactic comes from Mein Kampf. So it's a Karl Rove specialty.
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doubleplusgood Donating Member (810 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. maybe if they dumped Ramirez
...the rabid, R/W editorial cartoonist that might help.
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ydya Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I agree. What's the frikkin deal with Ramirez anyway? He really
pisses me off with his so-called humor. He thinks he's hard-hitting like Trudeau, but the major difference is that Ramirez constantly makes editorial cartoons that are not backed up by the facts. Damn dimwit....I constantly wonder how he landed a job at LAT.
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doubleplusgood Donating Member (810 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Paul Conrad
Yeah, the L.A. Times used to feature great, thought-provoking work by regular cartoonist Paul Conrad. Don't kow if his work is still in the Times or what. (I know that he still works...I see his cartoons onle). Of course, maybe that was back before the Trib bought theLAT.
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lil-petunia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
3. I am very proud to say that I personally caused the Trib's lower ###s.
I unsubscribed after they endorsed shrub.
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Bossy Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Actually, it was Newsday and a Spanish-language paper that had
the inflated numbers. But well done all the same!
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lil-petunia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #6
18. But ChiTrib also suffered a 4.3% drop is subscriptions.
When you think about it, that is huge, because the loss of ad revenue based on readership ##s is a multiplier


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Rev_Karl Donating Member (91 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
5. I think the internet is taking over
people in LA can get broadband cheaper than cable. When the midwest has these options our country may be saved.
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. agreed
i wonder if their internet numbers are going up :shrug:

these folks need to adapt to iLife or go the way of the candlestick makers.

:hi:

peace
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Rev_Karl Donating Member (91 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. once they have the option
they don't have access now. That's one of the problems, their only source of news at best is corporate cable. That's why many of them are voting for Bush. They have absolutely no access to open information, the 'alternative media' for them is Rush Limbaugh.

My father in law is brainwashed. His church and fox news have been pounding the same shit into his head for years. When he turns on the radio for an alternate view it's more of the same.

He was raised in a world where the evening news was an accurate report of the days events. The reality is that, in it's desperate attempts to appear balanced, the media has become a slave to the accusations of partisans. It can't call out one party, without inflaming the 'fairness' corps of the other. It can't be fair and balanced in an unfair and unbalanced word, it's impossible.

When the liars are shouting lies the corporate media automatically tries to find the neutral ground. As the crazies make crazier claims the media moves in their direction, in the name of balance.

So we need to help to provide a balanced media to all Americans. PBS and NPR were once the ideal but somehow they've been sold. I don't know how to do this, but I know it's important. I think things started to go south after Reagan abandoned the fairness doctrine.

If they all had a computer and an ISP...
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Psephos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. The bell tolls for thee, dead tree media
BPilgrim is right, adapt or die. This is less a reaction to political content and more a reaction to the availability of alternate media.

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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
9. I cancelled them right after the
2000 selection when they ran a hatchet job on Hillary Clinton on the same page as a puff piece on Pickles.


Since I had been a long-time subscriber they tried all sorts of incentives to get me to change my mind, but I told them that since liberals are generally well-read, they were shooting themselves in the foot with their march to the right, and I wasn't going to support guys like Ramirez with my subscription dollars. Don't miss it at all.
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
12. i can't believe they didn't see this coming
it's the internet...hello!!!! why buy a paper if you can read it here??
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #12
22. Especially If The News Never Hits The Paper Anyway
I get most of my news here--I could care less about housefires, dog bites, and teenagers killing themselves with foolish car tricks. Very little news in them thar papers.
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Democat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
14. They moved to the right and lost customers, so stop kissing right wing ass
Idiots.
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genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
15. The Tribune Company is backing Bush. That's why.
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onager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 03:37 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Good! I had a similar experience to L.D.A.
I've been ranting at their persistent Subscription Shills since the first Clinton Administration. You may remember, that's when L.A. Times reporter Bill Stempel fell in love with the Early Arkansas Project. And every lie that drooled from the hateful lips of racist morons like "Justice" Jim Johnson got blared on the L.A. TIMES front page as Revealed Truth.

They just got worse during the Lewinsky scandal. That Ramirez idiot was really just the last straw. And for something like that to replace Paul Conrad was way beyond the pale.

Hell, they've almost regressed to the good old days when Harrison Gray Otis cruised around L.A. with a miniature cannon on his running board, in case he got attacked by anarchists and Commies.
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Sinnerman Donating Member (323 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
19. Why You Ask...... Why pay when you can get it for FREE on Internet
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
20. The LAT has always been right wing.
If anything it's become a bit more "moderate" since the
Chandlers bailed out. I would guess Ramirez has a contract.
He was part of the "management" in the old days. Read "The
Powers That Be" by Halberstam if you want to know about the
Times, Mike Davis' "City of Quartz" is good too, if very
distopian. They have been in decline for twenty years,
despite rising population in LA, for a number or reasons,
but most importantly because they are not the place to
advertise anymore, so people don't buy it to look for work
or cars or real estate etc. They have been trying to find a
new formula for some time, but have had no luck.

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realFedUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
23. I still think LA Times is reliable
some of their investigative pieces deserve
the Pulitzers they garner, although probably
too lengthy for most of their readership
and usually not exactly breaking news.

They do get some stories first that the NY Times
and Wash Post don't get. I'd hate to think
that circulation numbers would keep the Times
from doing its best job.

I've enjoyed the additions of Michael Kinsley,
Margaret Carlson, Patt Morrison to the editorial page
and always skip Ramirez's foul toons anyway.

I am guessing that this election has been
so divided over the Iraq invasion that some
of the Jewish readers who endorsed the war have left,
as well as people who are cutting back on their
budgets, just see a newspaper as something they
can get free online. I'm guessing though, it
would be interesting to know outside of the inflated
numbers for the other two papers if the Times
has gone down in ciculation and why.

I do get annoyed when I read some news on the Net
that I know the Times hasn't covered or won't for a few
days...but for the most part, I still find it a
reliable news source.

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Barkley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
24. Its Economics: Price and Quantity
I'm a LAT subsriber; some high school kids trying to pay for summer camp by selling LAT subscriptions at the local supermarket got the best of my bleeding liberal heart.

When I subscribed in May and I recall it was $37 per month; its now $42 per month!

Does anyone know if the LAT has actually raised their subscription price over the last 6 months?

There are also plenty of substitutes:
Local News
Pasadena Star News
Daily News
O.C. Register
Long Beach Telegram

National. International News substitutes
NY Times
WP

LAT is still better than most U.S. papers (scary huh?).


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MeinaShaw Donating Member (208 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. $42 a month is not nearly the cost
That $42 a month you pay is not nearly the cost of the paper. That paper you "pay" for, it cost hundreds of dollars more in wasted resources - not to mention the harm done to the environment.

I find it very hard to accept such waste of resources as the daily delivery of a newspaper to a home. It is one of the most environmentally unecessary things you can do.

If you must have your own paper, can't you at least get it from a centralized distribution rack? And then do your planet a favor and when you are done reading it, leave it out for others to read the same paper so they don't have to make so many papers. Or don't you care? I mean, I don't mean to be rude or anything.
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MeinaShaw Donating Member (208 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 02:48 AM
Response to Original message
25. LAT a total waste of resources. It should die
The LA Times and every other daily newspaper that pumps out millions of tons of waste a day should die a quick death. I used to subscribe. But then I became very aware of that small bundle of paper I put out for recycling each week. My small bundle was compounded by thousands of bundles all over Los Angeles.

It is not enough to just recycle anymore - not to mention the tons on newspaper that never even gets recycled. We must stop the creation of the waste stream in the first place. You can not be environmentally sensitive and subscribe to a pile of paper every day. Think about it people.
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