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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 10:41 PM
Original message
Austin (IRS) Employees Fearing (2,000) Layoffs To Outsourcing
http://www.kxan.com/Global/story.asp?S=2500346&nav=0s3dSZhx

Some workers are worried Austin could lose almost 2,000 jobs to outsourcing. That's the charge by local IRS employees and other federal workers.

They say privatization efforts that proponents say will make government more efficient, are threatening their jobs and the economy. The workers took their fight to downtown's Federal Plaza Friday morning.

<snip>

"I've never been scared a day in my life until we started these RIF meetings," Saldana said.

"We have about 5,000 jobs locally. Approximately one half are subject to be contracted out," Grace said.

...more...
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iam Donating Member (453 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. This is IT everyone!
Get of yer asses and Do something with the few remaining days we have! Call a friend, call a sranger, anything to get these animals out of the seat of power. What will you tell your children when they ask you what you did to protect freedom? What will you say when your kids ask why we can see the air? What a tiger is? Why are the police in the LIBRARY? What will you say?
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high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. Privatize the IRS?
Now I think I've heard everything.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Has already been done to some extent.
Edited on Fri Oct-29-04 11:02 PM by havocmom
A couple years ago, a portion of the returns were processed off shore. How is that for making you feel secure? All your personal data going to the LOWEST bidder for the work.

Edit to add link and snips:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/23/60minutes/main590004.shtml

from the end of the article:

"Indians also answer some of the Amazon.com's e-mail. And AOL and Dell send technical calls to India. Plus, if your doctor prescribes an MRI at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston, it may be processed by a radiologist in India.

So what's left? Well, there's taxes. Last year, only a thousand U.S. tax returns were prepared in India. This year, there were 25,000.

"And next year, people are estimating that about 200,000 returns will be prepared in India," says Dave Wyle, a 31-year-old American entrepreneur who expects to make a fortune on outsourcing for U.S. accounting firms through his company, Sureprep, based in Bombay."
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ProgressiveDave Donating Member (64 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #7
17. that's not the IRS's doing...
those tax forms were sent by private tax preparers, not the government.
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Longhorn79 Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. I'm an Austinite. What companies are they talking about?
I'm not in IT here, but I know people who are.
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. from the article
it sounds as though the IRS agents are the ones that appear to be concerned that federal jobs are about to be out-sourced.

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Longhorn79 Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. Disregard my earlier post, sorry
When you said "This is IT" I thought you meant this is IT. Then I read the article.
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
6. The IRS is outsourcing our tax information? This is absolutely bullshit.
I for one do not want my personal information going to someplace overseas. Can you just imagine the possiblities here? Some workplace in India or China with access to all our private financial information. Shit, they won't have to sent all those funky "I need help, my Dad was a minister in an African government and I need help moving ten million dollars out of the country" e-mails.

One time I watch a tv show where this guy was just on the street of some big city with a lap top. To demonstrate how easy it is to get personal information, he just asked people their names and he came back with all kinds of stuff, social security numbers, which led to bank account numbers, which led to...you get the picture. People were appalled and amazed at what this guy came up with. Well, just picture it if your information was stored somewhere in a foreign country, and they got pissed at us. Not to mention the access they would have to our computer systems.

Now, maybe I'm being a little sensitive, but not only do I want my private information going overseas, I don't want to spend my tax dollars to do it.

THIS IS BULLSHIT.
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. bullshit, yes, but here's what I found
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A31979-2004May16.html

Legislation on IRS Collections, Defense Contracts Reflects Clashes Over Outsourcing

The Senate approved legislation last week that would allow the Internal Revenue Service to use private debt collectors to pursue overdue taxes. The measure was opposed by the National Treasury Employees Union, which claimed that the IRS would collect tax debt more efficiently if the agency increased its staffing levels.

In the House, the Armed Services Committee adopted an amendment that Rep. JamesR. Langevin (D-R.I.) said would eliminate loopholes that he contends the Pentagon has used to contract out work performed by Defense employees. The Contract Services Association, which represents more than 300 companies, criticized the amendment as harmful to small businesses and as a rollback of rules issued last year aimed at streamlining the contracting process.

Although the issues underlying each bill are different, they signal that on Capitol Hill, steam once again is building over outsourcing. Federal unions are lobbying against the Bush administration's "competitive sourcing" initiative and hope to make it an election-year issue.

The administration sees public-private competitions as a way to force efficiencies into government operations and save taxpayer dollars. But the job competitions have roiled the federal workforce and, according to some employees, lowered morale inside agencies.

Langevin said more than 11,500 federal jobs were contracted out in fiscal 2002 and 2003, with about 75 percent of those at the Defense Department. The Pentagon, he contended, "plays a little game" of dividing up work in ways that have prevented numerous Defense employees from competing for the jobs.

...more...

and http://www.fcw.com/fcw/articles/2003/0609/web-nteu-06-13-03.asp

Union objects to IRS outsourcing move

A union of federal employees fears that the government may ignore provisions in new outsourcing guidelines, allowing many jobs to be outsourced without allowing federal employees to compete for them first.

The new rules, the Office of Management and Budget's Circular A-76, eliminated the process of "direct conversion," under which agencies could declare that some jobs were suitable for outsourcing and not open them to competition. The revised circular, published May 29, instead requires a streamlined competition process for activities involving 65 or fewer full-time equivalent positions.

OMB has the authority to grant exceptions to the requirement, but the National Treasury Employees Union believes that the agency may become too lenient. In a June 12 letter to Office of Federal Procurement Policy administrator Angela Styles, NTEU president Colleen Kelley pointed to an Internal Revenue Service procurement as an example.

IRS is outsourcing the order entry telephone work in the distribution centers from which the agency mails tax forms, manuals and schedules. The 176 full-time equivalent jobs are people who take orders for the documents. IRS requested to use direct conversion and Styles granted them permission, according to Kelley.

...more...
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gulfcoastliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #8
21. This is death by a thousand cuts
Edited on Sat Oct-30-04 10:29 AM by gulfcoastliberal
Rethugs hate civil servants (& their union) since they trend to be dems. This outsourcing federal jobs travesty is just part of their ill-disguised attempt to destroy America. The civil service attracted some of the best and the brightest.

edited for copy paste errors
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. See my post # 7
But not if you have high blood pressure.

Many companies send your personal info overseas for processing. My daughter deals with a mortage company in Arizona that outsources its loan processing in India.

Many medical records are now transcribed in India.

There is so much personal info out there now that you might as well wear nothing but your SS#, financial and medical history, cuz it is probably out there
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fudge stripe cookays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
10. I'm almost in tears right now.
These are my old co-workers.

I know quite a few have died or retired, or been transferred, but some are still there. My mom and I worked there together, and I have such happy memories of my job there.

I worked at the Federal Plaza office for almost 3 years, then got transferred down to the Service Center. I'm glad I got out when I did.

When I was there, my mom told me that federal jobs were very secure...that it took an act of Congress to get rid of you if you screwed up.

Turns out you don't even need to screw up anymore. But that fucker and his Congress did it.

If any of you guys are reading, I'm so sorry.
FSC
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juliagoolia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
11. NCLB? I dont think retraining is the answer.. Get rid of Bush
Going canvassing tomorrow.. ARE YOU? Im in Austin TOO! Damn i wish we would turn TX blue.. that would really show *
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Zang Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
12. Wow
Time to bust out the boots.

I remember walking the line for the air traffic controllers during the Reagan era at the old Mueller airport.
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 04:14 AM
Response to Original message
13. This is CHENEY
Edited on Sat Oct-30-04 04:15 AM by Carolab
This mother has been outsourcing government jobs since he first worked with Rumsfeld back in the '60s. His first act at the OEO was to cut 108 jobs, most of them tenured.

<snip>

"Around this time, in 1968, Dick Cheney arrived in Washington. He was a political-science graduate student who had won a congressional fellowship with Bill Steiger, a Republican from his home state of Wyoming. One of Cheney’s first assignments was to visit college campuses where antiwar protests were disrupting classes, and quietly assess the scene. Steiger was part of a group of congressmen who were considering ways to cut off federal funding to campuses where violent protests had broken out. It was an early lesson in the strategic use of government cutbacks.

Instead of returning to graduate school, Cheney got a job as the deputy for a brash congressional colleague of Steiger’s, Donald Rumsfeld, whom Richard Nixon had appointed to head the Office of Economic Opportunity. The O.E.O., which had played a prominent role in Johnson’s War on Poverty, was not favored by Nixon. According to Dan Guttman, who co-wrote “The Shadow Government” (1976), Rumsfeld and Cheney diminished the power of the office by outsourcing many of its jobs. Their tactics were not subtle. At nine o’clock on the morning of September 17, 1969, Rumsfeld distributed a new agency phone directory; without explanation, a hundred and eight employee names had been dropped. The vast majority were senior career civil servants who had been appointed by Democrats.

The purging of the office was a mixed success. Bureaucratic resistance stymied Cheney and Rumsfeld on several fronts. But by the time Ronald Reagan became President the overriding principle that had guided their actions at the O.E.O.—privatization—had become a central precept of the conservative movement.

For most of the eighties, Cheney served in the House of Representatives. In 1988, after the election of George H. W. Bush, he was named Secretary of Defense. The end of the Cold War brought with it expectations of a “peace dividend,” and Cheney’s mandate was to reduce forces, cut weapons systems, and close military bases. Predictably, this plan met with opposition from every member of Congress whose district had a base in peril.

Cheney was widely admired for his judicious handling of the matter. By the time he was done, the armed forces were at their lowest level since the Korean War. However, a Democratic aide on the House Armed Services Committee during those years told me that “contrary to his public image, which was as a reasonable, quiet, soft-spoken, and inclusive personality, Cheney was a rank partisan.” The aide said that Cheney practiced downsizing as political jujitsu. He once compiled a list of military bases to be closed; all were in Democratic districts. Cheney’s approach to cutting weapons systems was similar: he proposed breathtaking cuts in the districts of Thomas Downey, David Bonior, and Jim Wright, all high-profile Democrats. The aide told me that Congress, which was then dominated by the Democrats, beat back most of Cheney’s plans, because many of the cuts made no strategic sense. “This was about getting even,” he said of Cheney. Cheney’s spokesman disputed this account, saying that the armed services had specified which bases should be cut, and “Congress approved it without changes.”

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040216fa_fact
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hippywife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 07:36 AM
Response to Original message
14. This needs to stay bumped.
The information in this post needs to be sent to everyone you know. Even Bush supporters would be frightened by the prospect of what this bodes in the way of their own personal security.
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TheKingfish Donating Member (263 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
15. Im in IT too so don't get me wrong
But outsourcing is not necesarily offshoring. Its unclear to me from the article that this is actually offshoring.
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hippywife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #15
22. Re-read this quote from above
So what's left? Well, there's taxes. Last year, only a thousand U.S. tax returns were prepared in India. This year, there were 25,000.

"And next year, people are estimating that about 200,000 returns will be prepared in India," says Dave Wyle, a 31-year-old American entrepreneur who expects to make a fortune on outsourcing for U.S. accounting firms through his company, Sureprep, based in Bombay."
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tedoll78 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
16. I am one of those 2000 employees.
I foresaw this coming about three years ago and began radiography school a year ago. I will be escaping the sinking ship just in time. But what pains me is thinking of my coworkers who won't be set-up for an alternative plan. No escape pod for them. And they all know that it's coming. Some really nice people work there.. it's quite sad..
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
18. NO, NO, NO.... My god,all of our personal info going to who-knows-where
and we foolish taxpaying citizens are subsidizing this outrage.
Bush has already given away 380 tons of explosives to the enemy; now he wants to give them our most
sensitive information that could be used to harm this country in soooo
many ways. Homeland Security? What a f&*%ing joke!
Has there ever in the history of this country been such a bumbling, stupid,DANGEROUS person in charge???
THEY MUST GO!!!
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
19. Outsourcing = Profiteering
Virtually the entire Department of Energy is "privatized" and is a huge cookie-jar for profiteering 'cost-plus' corporate contractors. It's the most utterly inefficient, labor-predatory, profiteering scheme I've ever seen - full of waste, fraud and abuse.

We've seen what happens when the military in Iraq gets 'outsourced' - when contractors get paid $80-120,000 virtually tax-free to do the same jobs as the troops - but without a "stop loss." We might as well be shoveling the money into the corporate coffers.

These contractors take the same people who've been doing the government job, remove their pensions, eliminate their health-care, reduce their pay, abolish their union, eliminate their other benefits, add layers of executives, convert the federal management bureaucracy to 'contract managers' ... and both the workers and the tax-payers get screwed big time.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
20. So? Get Texas Out of the Bush Column!
And then we can do something about it.
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