Study of pesticides and children stirs protest (corporatocracy and Bushco)

[Nancy Waterman]

Another example of the Bush administration supporting industry over US citizens. This breaks all the laws of bioethics and research integrity. They are using human children, inducing the families with money, and potentially damaging the children for life with neurological problems. This reminds me of the Tuskeegee experimenst when they purposefully gave black men syphylis for their experiments. I am so angry over this I could scream!!!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10728-2004Oct29.html

An Environmental Protection Agency proposal to study young children's exposure to pesticides has sparked a flurry of internal agency protests, with several career officials questioning whether the survey will harm vulnerable infants and toddlers.

The EPA announced this month that it was launching a two-year investigation, partially funded by the American Chemical Council, of how 60 children in Duval County, Fla., absorb pesticides and other household chemicals. The chemical industry funding initially prompted some environmentalists to question whether the study would be biased, and some rank-and-file agency scientists are now questioning whether the plan will exploit financially strapped families.

In exchange for participating for two years in the Children's Environmental Exposure Research Study, which involves infants and children up to age 3, the EPA will give each family using pesticides in their home $970, some children's clothing and a camcorder that parents can keep.

[Nancy Waterman]

1. kick

xx

[undergroundpanther]

2. Why not

Let the children of the parents who are at the highest level working for
these agences sacrfice thier kids first on the altar of money.

Corporations are not human beings so they don't care whom or what they harm,in the name of inventing ,tinkering and throwing away,if it will not hurt THIER company profits.
Please Stop letting corporations become serial killers and torturers and get away with it because they "provide jobs" and "goods and services".
This profit system is too expensive for us all the earth is dying because of the dream of money..I ask,what is the true human,emotional, psychological, lifetimes cost of living in this profit controlled pay as you exist culture we have that's so competitive,shallow, greed based, beholden to money and more things? Ceos ALWAYS omit these things from thier company cost projections.
Doing business is killing us ,It is worldwide homocide-anthro suicide.

[snoochie]

25. Amen

This is why education is intentionally allowed to fail. If people were educated, they would figure this out and elect a form of government to reflect real human values.

[Tight_rope]

35. Amen again!

[GoddessOfGuinness]

3. What kind of parent would go for this, anyway?

Sick...

[diamond14]

5. the poor parents, uneducated, with no health insurance, the vulnerable

that's who the entire bush* cabal preys on.....

[kayell]

37. The kind who have been brainwashed by tv ads to think that

sprays are totally safe. You have seen those ads, with happy, white, middle-class, beautiful people blithely spraying the can around in the kitchen, or trotting in their tennis shoes through the herbicide they are spraying on their lawn.

I deal with these people everyday. They don't read the pesticide labels, because they are very long, and in incredibly tiny print, often in colors that make it even harder to read.

And their usual response to my instructions on proper pesticide use is "they wouldn't sell it if it wasn't safe".

I'm sure these people are being assured that this will be very safe for their children, since only pesticides currently on the market (hence safe :eyes: ) will be used, and they are probably also assured what useful information will be gained from this.

Fucking EPA knows better, they have been sold to the pesticide corporations as a subsidiary. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

[diamond14]

4. in 2002, bush* cabal approved the use of HUMAN BEINGS in pesticide

studies at the request of the pesticide corporations....the corporations argued that using rats and mice to study pesticide toxicity was NOT representative, and it would show LESS toxic effects if human beings were exposed....there were also some HUMAN BEING studies that had already been conducted, and the pesticide corporations wanted those studies accepted in EPA risk assessments, and that was done.....


it's official bush* policy...experiment on HUMAN BEINGS...and that has now easily been extended to CHILDREN...


throw bush* out...vote KERRY on Nov. 2nd

[Karenina]

8. Hmmm...

Sound familiar???

[tlcandie]

19. Yes, it does ... when the US

started helping to fund the Nazis because lab animals were no longer an option or some sort. EXACTLY the same! I can't recall where I read that, but it was recently!

[Ima]

20. yes ,there was a good discussion here

Remember when they paid something like $700.00 for the poor to DRINK, yes I said DRINK a large dose of pesticide?

Don't kid yourselves about what they are doing to these poor children. They are not getting money to simply put a roach trap in the kitchen, nor are they simply studying "normal" use.


I hope there is a hell and there is a special place for those bastards.

[Karenina]

28. They're NOT NAZIS

so STOP saying that!!!

[Ima]

30. and

your name for them is..........:think:


If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck..:think:


A rose by any other name is.....:think:

[Oak2004]

33. That's right -- they're Straussians

Followers of the German fascist philosopher Leo Strauss, a man who, though Jewish, received Nazi help to emigrate to the US. You can think of neoconservativism as Hitler's little gift to America.

Straussianism might be described as the theory of fascism by committee. The difference between Nazis and Straussians are:


Nazi:

Dictatorship of the superior man

Open hatred of democracy and embrace of dictatorship

Racist

Control of the people through multiple party-sponsored organizations (examples: Hitler Youth, trade unions, etc.), and the invocation of racial symbolism and mythology


Straussian:

Dictatorship of the elite which rules through the Straussian law of nature: the law of dominance by the superior over the inferior

Maintain the superficial trappings of democracy while manipulating the system so that it always produces the results desired by the elite

Nationalist. Explicitly rejects racism. Sometimes referred to
by its followers as "universal fascism"

Control of the people through moralistic religion. The leadership elite maintains an appearance of piety, but in fact does not -- cannot
-- believe in any of it.


The most glaring similarity between the two is their embrace of empire-building and perpetual warfare.

[Digit]

6. This has me speechless

Experimenting on children????
This must be stopped, now.
If we can get a contact for the American Chemical Council and put a spotlight on it, perhaps we can prevent this atrocity.

[Polly Glot]

7. But! But!

Bush* is making our children *safer*...

/sarcasm


Motherfuckers

[PBX9501]

9. I don't want to register

are they paying people who already expose themselves or are actually exposing people?

All pesticides are hazmat and should be treated as such.

[havocmom]

10. My question too: new exposure or studying results of normal exposure

already happening in most homes in America?

Flame away, but most people in our nation run these experiments every day when they open any bottle of cleaning solution in the home. Dad out in the yard with the Raid or the Roundup? He is doing experiments on the kids too. Buy apples from anywhere but a certified organic farm? Your kids are test subjects whether you know it or not. We just don't record data about the effects on our kids.

So is this about purposely exposing kids to substances they would not normally come into contact with in their daily lives or is this about studying the effects of what is already in their environment? If it is the latter, I am all for it cuz it might help prove currently accepted levels are not really safe for the small bodies of our children.

[Polly Glot]

11. Granted, I don't know muc h about the scientific method.

It seems to me, however, that they would have to have some sort of controls on the amount of pesticides used to get accurate results. Kind of like when weight loss results from dieting are evaluated. If everyone's on a 1200 calorie a day diet then results are more precise than saying, hey, just eat whatever and we'll see how much weight you lose.

IMHO we should give the benefit of the doubt to our children in all such matters and use non-toxic pesticides, fertilizers, get a cat, etc. etc.

[diamond14]

29. overview of the "scientific method" with LINKS to EPA requirements

-snip- from EPA web site

"Pesticide registration is the process through which EPA examines the ingredients of a pesticide; the site or crop on which it is to be used; the amount, frequency and timing of its use; and storage and disposal practices. EPA evaluates the pesticide to ensure that it will not have unreasonable adverse effects on humans, the environment and non-target species. A pesticide cannot be legally used if it has not been registered with EPA's Office of Pesticide Programs."

http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/regulating/registering/index.htm

EPA has an animal laboratory to find out how the pesticides affect humans...the scientists USED TO run tests on rats and mice....but bush* cabal cut funds to run this lab, and the NEW bush* policies are to let the PESTICIDE CORPORATIONS submit their own data to the EPA.....this has resulted in LOTS of falsified and erroneous data...the EPA animal lab does NOT have funds to check the accuracy/precision of any data...so, corporations have run all over the EPA with junk chemical data that has no basis in reality...under Clinton, these criminals would already be in jail....

it's easy to run pesticide exposure tests...you just expose the rats or mice with pesticides: by air, into eyes, on their skin, inject, or in their food...the pesticides are absorbed into the animal...then WATCH what happens to the mice or rats at different amounts, film the effects, and write it on an official form....mice/rats convulse, suffer nerve damage, grow cancers, run around crazy, DIE, etc.....these PESTICIDES are designed to KILL bugs and also can KILL humans....as an example of toxicity, AGENT ORANGE (the defoliant used in Vietnam) is regulated under the EPA PESTICIDE Program, which covers all HERBICIDES, FUNGICIDES, PESTICIDES, and RODENTICIDES...all these chemicals are HIGHLY POISONOUS and toxic....

some Pesticide Corporations (not all, some vehemently object to use of humans) found that exposing humans to pesticides gives better data for the corporation (that is: data that shows humans can be exposed to MUCH MORE pesticide than currently accepted....many scientists object to human studies, since some effects, like cancers, nerve damages, take YEARS to develop)....under bush*, EPA now accepts HUMAN STUDIES, and corporations are able to obtain EPA licenses for use of prohibited and huge amounts of pesticide exposures on ALL AMERICANs' FOOD and in the soils, water....

under the NEW bush* cabal HUMAN CHILDREN EXPERIMENTs....humans (children and babies) will be exposed to the pesticides, like the mice and rats are.....sadly, the effects need to be documented AND THAT IS WHAT THE CAMCORDERS ARE FOR...to FILM THE CHILDREN AS THEY REACT TO PESTICIDES.....babies and children will be exposed through their skin, the air they breathe, their food..and parents will FILM THE EFFECTS and give that data to the EPA....

[JPace]

14. I don't agree....

"it might help prove currently accepted levels are not really safe for the small bodies of our children."

The companies doing the studies are the ones making the poisons
and profiting by them. They are not going to want studies that
damn their products. They want certain results and will make
sure that the studies support these results. If they do not
the studies will be hidden from the public....you can bet on it.

[baby_bear]

15. Exposure is already occurring

The ethical question comes about because EPA would not be advising the parents that any contact with pesticides by children is bad and should be avoided. So instead of alerting them to the dangers, the researchers will say nothing and just monitor the children for 2 years. Apparently some people believe the parents might be inadvertently encouraged to use even more pesticides.

[mom cat]

17. The ethical question is weather families will increase usage in order

to "qualify" for the study. At that point it is not a question of studying "exsisting use". Poverty drives people crazy.

[baby_bear]

26. They won't be told of hazards and risks

So even though increased use won't be tacitly encouraged, it might be done indirectly.

There has to be a way to evaluate the hazards and risks while still encouraging minimal use of these products.

[JPace]

12. This is so unethical...

and all the big poison maker corporations are doing
it. Dow did one in England and did not tell the people
what they were swallowing. This one was by Bayer. They
don't want to hear bad news from their scientists, I
think they are trying to stack the deck to make it
look like pesticides are harmless to people so they
can go on poisoning us as long as possible. I'd rather
eat an occasional bug or flawed fruit and vegetables
than ingesting all the pesticides. They are killers,
period!

http://www.ahrp.org/infomail/0103/15.html

[PBX9501]

13. Millions

of people die from malaria. Pesticides have their place. However intentional exposure is unethical and illegal.

Now if someone is already using the chemicals in their home and the results are studied that is different. Pesticides are not illegal to use.

[kayell]

38. I agree with you that pesticides can be necessary in some cases. I advise

people every day on safe and sensible use. But most of the use by consumers is not necessary - there are usually cultural or physical control methods that will work every bit as well or better. And unfortunately, most people do not follow even the most basic safety precautions, starting with READING THE LABEL.

And the EPA definitely knows this. So encouraging further use by people who may have lower literacy rates and will be even less likely to follow basic precautions is incredibly irresponsible.

Money would be better spent as you say studying existing use - as they have done in the past with diazinon use in the home - leading to valuable information on the incredibly negative effect on cognitive development of children. They could spend some money on studying how to dffectivley educate people on methods of reducing pesticide use in homes with children.

[skooooo]

16. Nazi-inspired medical practices...

...fit quite nicely in a corporate America.

[cleofus1]

18. hurmmm

This administration is like and episode on the x-files. And these types of programs illustrate just how despicable the dogs are!

[diamond14]

21. Jim Jones, bush* appointed Director of EPA-OPP must be FIRED

now....this bush* appointee, James Jones, was a civil-service division chief, who went all out after bush* seized the pResidency.....jones pressed HARD for experimentation on human beings to be accepted by the EPA, for toxicological data....EPA scientists OBJECTED majorly, many were disciplined by jones....and then he got what he wanted, HUMAN EXPERIMENTATION.....then, jones was majorly promoted by bush* cabal, into a plush political appointment:
the DIRECTOR OF EPA OFFICE OF PESTICIDE PROGRAMS (EPA-OPP)....


this jones needs to be REMOVED IMMEDIATELY....FIRED by "WE THE PEOPLE"....jones has trashed the entire OPP....and bush* cabal LOVES the 'experimenting on human beings' approach being pushed through EPA by jim jones....


to find jim jones phone and email, go to EPA web page....

http://www.epa.gov

here's the ORGANIZATIONAL CHART
http://www.epa.gov/epahome/organization.htm

look at the "Office of Prevention, Pesticides and Toxic Substances",,,then for OPP (Office of Pesticide Programs)...james jones is now the bush*-appointed director of OPP....

here's jim jones at the TOP of this OFFICE OF PESTICIDE PROGRAMS....bush* appointed DIRECTOR of OFFICE of PESTICIDE PROGRAMS....jones has put hard-core bush* supporters into all areas, and disciplined those who object to using pesticides to experiment on HUMAN BEINGS, and especially, children and babies....
http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/contacts/organization_charts.htm


throw bush* out...vote for KERRY on Nov. 2nd...stop PESTICIDE EXPERIMENTATION ON HUMAN BEINGS....stop corporate bush_supporters from exposing children and babies to pesticides

[Ima]

24. Thanks for posting that!

Now people can see what is really happening.

[baby_bear]

27. Interesting name (Jim Jones)

Stay away from the Kool Aid, kids.

[KT2000]

22. This must be stopped

Lower income people are already suffering more from environmental hazards, e.g.,toxic waste sites go in their neighborhoods.

For what is already known about pesticides, our government should be educating people about safer alternatives. If they sign up families without full disclosure of the risk of using these products - they are participating and probably encouraging injury and illness in babies and toddlers for god's sake. They will all undoubtedly have to sign waivers of liability for that though. Our government is counting on the poor to go for the money and they will be right. Gee - they even get a camcorder!

[lostnfound]

31. Yep, and the combination of factors means they aren't even good subjects

With the extra toxins found in poor neighborhoods, if they are using control groups in those same neighborhoods, the data will contain a lot of 'noise' and probably multivariate effects / interactions.

This is so wrong. Especially for under age 3s...

[KT2000]

32. Good point

This will be the weakness the corporations will target to make any results useless.

This is so disgusting I am contacting my senators and rep tonight.

[ecoalex]

23. Constitution be Damned

I thought the Constitution protected the public and individuals from "unwanted intrusions" into their bodies. The rationale why people can refuse inoculations, even tho mandated by law.Fluoride comes to mind. In all developed countries except the U.S. fluoride is banned in drinking water, it causes premature death. Fluoride is an enzyme inhibitor,inhibiting many physiological processes in warm blooded creatures.Studies in Europe showed an additional death rate of 10 per 100,000 over control untreated water supplies, in identical cities. One reason to dump bush would be his cavalier approach to the environment, his disdain for science and past proven studies. His callous command to not inform the workers in the trade towers of the health risks from the dust from the wreckage,shows an uncaring pResident. His claim to "care for all Americans in uniform , and civilians" has been proven wrong countless times. bush has a disdain for the most empowering document we have, our constitution.

[AmyDeLune]

34. Kick! n/t

[kayell]

36. ARRRGGHHHHH! I spend part of every working day, trying to get people to

use pesticides sensibly. Part of that involves NOT using them inside unless all other methods of control have failed, and definitely avoiding their use around young children. The government pays me to do this, based on research backed evidence.

We ALREADY know the horrible effects many pesticides have on young children. We also know that for most indoor insect infestations, that cultural controls - sanitation, vacuuming, caulking entrances, moisture reduction, etc, etc are more effective at managing insects. Change the habitat, remove the food sources, etc. and the insect stays gone.

Leave the habitat, spray that can of Raid around, and you may get a satisfying corpse rate, but those critters will be back, and every time you do it, the next generation of insects will be more resistant. And chemicals will be coating the surfaces of your house - particularly from those horrible foggers.

People use pesticides in insane ways. I've dealt with people who have sprayed their beds, and one mother who sprayed her babies crib, because "they wouldn't sell them if they weren't safe". People don't read the labels, they don't follow the most basic safety precautions, they NEVER clean residue up, or wear proper protection. They just see a ad on tv showing someone happily spraying a can to solve all their problem, and figure that works for them.

The latest horror from the insane pesticide sellers - "Country Fresh" scented Raid!!!!

Dammit!!! The EPA totally knows what the problems with consumer pesticide use are in this country - consumer education on safe use, consumer education on proper methods of pest control, and if the EPA was honest with themselves - better regulation of the pesticide industry.

[diamond14]

39. bush* policy is "no regulation of pesticides".....even though scientists

already KNOW that pesticides maim and kill...elimating regulations of anything and everything is all bush* ever does...NO REGULATIONS, let them drink ARSENIC was bush* first action.....


this bush* policy of experimenting on HUMANS, especially babies up to three years old, is truly unethical, and immoral....part of bush* "no child left behind"....give them a few clothes, $970 and a camcorder to film the effects as the children act abnormally, shake, convulse, and more....


STAND UP and vote on Tuesday, November 2....boot bush* and his whole cabal....VOTE FOR KERRY !!!!