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NYT: Koreans Quietly Introducing Jesus to Muslims in Mideast

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kskiska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 10:45 PM
Original message
NYT: Koreans Quietly Introducing Jesus to Muslims in Mideast
AMMAN, Jordan - A South Korean missionary here speaks of introducing Jesus in a "low voice and with wisdom" to Muslims, the most difficult group to convert. In Baghdad, South Koreans plan to open a seminary even after Iraqi churches have been bombed in two recent coordinated attacks. In Beijing, they defy the Chinese government to smuggle North Koreans to Seoul while turning them into Christians.

South Korea has rapidly become the world's second largest source of Christian missionaries, only a couple of decades after it started deploying them. With more than 12,000 abroad, it is second only to the United States and ahead of Britain.

The Koreans have joined their Western counterparts in more than 160 countries, from the Middle East to Africa, from Central to East Asia. Imbued with the fervor of the born again, they have become known for aggressively going to - and sometimes being expelled from - the hardest-to-evangelize corners of the world. Their actions are at odds with the foreign policy of South Korea's government, which is trying to rein them in here and elsewhere.

It is the first time that large numbers of Christian missionaries have been deployed by a non-Western nation, one whose roots are Confucian and Buddhist, and whose population remains two-thirds non-Christian. Unlike Western missionaries, whose work dovetailed with the spread of colonialism, South Koreans come from a country with little history of sending people abroad until recently. They proselytize, not in their own language, but in the local one or English.

more…
http://nytimes.com/2004/11/01/international/asia/01missionaries.html?hp&ex=1099285200&en=80b31f70ef5c6cd1&ei=5094&partner=homepage
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. First, Muslims already know about Jesus, second, this paragraph is interes
""Saddam Hussein's regime allowed Christians to gather in private houses, so it was difficult, though possible, for us to evangelize," said Mr. Jung, who has been traveling in and out of Iraq for several years. "But now it has become even more difficult for Christians in Iraq. Christians are afraid of Muslims for the first time. We are frustrated we can't be in Iraq at this important time. But as soon as the security allows, we will go back to Baghdad.""

In other words, it was better even for Christians in Iraq under Hussein than under American rule.

And for those that don't know, Muslims venerate Jesus as the penultimate prophet, equal in standing to Muhammad, except that Muhammad came last, and therefore his message is uncorrupted. It isn't that they venerate Muhammad more, it is that the trust what has been handed down to them by Muhammad more, since they believe that Jesus' message was corupted. Muhammad carried the Qu'ran, which was the word of God. Jesus was the word of God, but his message was corrupted by his disciples and followers once Jesus was gone. Jesus was not God, to Muslims, but they need no introduction to Jesus.
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anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Thank you for saying it all so well and it so few words.
I have many Muslim friends, I know what you say is true. It's really unfortunate for so many that don't know this and/or believe what they are being told by the Religious Right, Christian Coalition.

Personal experience with lack of knowledge, evangelicals and the distortion of facts.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 03:12 AM
Response to Reply #1
14. Clarification
Edited on Mon Nov-01-04 03:15 AM by sandnsea
My understanding is that they revere Jesus as a prophet, and Muhammad as the "comforter" Jesus spoke of. The "comforter" which Christians interpret as the Holy Spirit. And that Muhammad is much, much more than Jesus in their religion. On edit: I was asking for clarification, not stating this as fact.


I love what Kerry said today, of the 3 major religions, we all pray to the same God. It doesn't usually come naturally for Catholics to speak about faith, I don't know why. But once he gets comfortable with it, he's going to have alot to say that people need to hear. At least people who have one of those faiths. I hope it helps.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Well
I've never heard the term "comforter," but Islam is not a homogenous faith, so there may be many different variations. There is no pope, no Nicene Council to vote on what is proper belief. There are many divisions. The big Sunni/Shi'a division, for instance. But within those, there are many different schools, and each school has its own standards for interpreting the Qur'an and tradition. I'm not too familiar with internal functionings of the various schools, but often the sheiks we keep hearing about are teachers/judges within these schools, and their job is to interpret the Qur'an and traditions, to advise those who ask for help. That's why some of these sheiks who are arrested for encouraging terrorism claim they are being persecuted. If a terrorist Muslim comes to them and says "What is your opinion on me blowing up that restaurant," the shiek offers his learned opinion. If the sheik's school believes that it is acceptable because of whatever reason, the sheik is supposed to say that. They don't consider this encouragement, it is their sacred duty, much like a priest's role in confession, where priests often here illegal activities confessed to.

The key point of Islam, their John 3:16 style verse, is "There is no God but God, and Muhammad is his prophet." Muhammad's immediate successor, Abu Bakr, on Muhammad's death announced to the crowd of Muslims awaiting word of the Prophet's fate, said "If you followed Muhammad, he is dead. If you followed God, he lives." Or something like that.

In other words, Islam is very clear that Muhammad is a prophet, not a God, or the Holy Spirit, or any such thing. He was a man to whom an angel delivered the Qur'an, which means simply Recitation. Muhammad was the perfect example of how a Muslim is supposed to live, but so was Jesus. So while in practice Muhammad is more revered than Jesus, they both hold equal status in theology, except, as I said, that Jesus' message was corrupted, so Muhammad's is the only one they trust. (Though as I said, there may be variations to this, my knowledge is very generalized, and I would gladly yield to any Muslim who corrected me.)

On prophets. Islam recognizes something like 27 or 31 (I forget) prophets, meaning men whom God inspired to preach his message. Some of them are also Christian figures-- Adam, Abraham, and I think Noah. After the Isaac/Ishmael split, Islam follows a different set of prophets. But, there are five prophets who are special. I think the word is Rasul, could be wrong. These five were given God's word directly. In the early stages of Islam it was said they spoke directly to God, but theologians later agreed no one could speak to God, except through angels, so these five received the word of God through angels. I don't know all of them (I think Adam and Abraham were such), but Jesus and Muhammad were of this category. Jesus was the Word of God, the living message of God, created in a virgin womb without a father, but his message was corrupted by those who followed him. Muhammad was given the Recitation, orally (Muhammad was illiterate, he had to memorize it), and the exact wording had to be memorized, so that the message could not be corrupted. There is a very tricky theological question involved-- some theologians believe the Qur'an is eternal, but since only God can be eternal, some believe the Qur'an is God, or at least that was argued in the middle ages. That is why the Qur'an can only truly be real if it is in the original Arabic. All translations are considered interpretations.

More than you ever wanted to know, probably. It is a beautiful religion in practice and theology.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
2. Watch for:"Koreans Quietly BEING BEHEADED in Mideast"
:(
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
3. let me see..hmmmmm
Jesus is a respected prophet,who did not die but lived on and Mary,Jesus mom, is revered in the Koran..good luck guys
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. These are not exactly pagens here.
Jesus is regarded as quite important to Muslims. Of course, those who think Muslims worship a moon god would not know this.
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ochazuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. Why are there so many Christians in South Korea?
By comparison, there are only a few in Japan.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. that's my question, too
and how did they get so many missionaries?
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ProgressiveDave Donating Member (64 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. I live in a heavily Korean area of Chicago-
and judging by the number of churches, and the attendences every sunday, it seems that they really love their christianity...and it's always puzzled me, too.
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chenGOD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 05:50 AM
Response to Reply #5
17. A lot of history to cover there...
Short version, when Japan first got exposed to the outside world in the 1500s, the Jesuit Portugese had a large sway over many of the Japanese rulers. After a civil war all the Christian missionaries got kicked out.

South Korea otoh was under the sphere of influence of the US after the Korean war. Thus the Christians had free range to proselytise and build churches.

Koreans are very social and like to hang outin large groups. This partly explains why they like Christianity, as it allows lots of them to gather weekly and shoot the shit. Japanese are not so much inclined to the large groups.

My other personal theory is that many South Koreans see America as a Christian nation, and they think to be successful they gotta have Christianity just like the Americans.

Their missionaries are freaking hardcore though, and they irritate the shit out of me on the street/subway/wherever.

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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
7. Nowhere in the article is mentioned Sun Yung Moon, formerly of S. Korea,
presently fascist Christian moving in high places in the U.S.A.
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thecrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Sun Yung Moon is no true Christian
nor is a "facist" a true Christian.
By their fruits ye shall know them.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
10. Now I've heard everything!......It's a Wally world alright!!!
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. hmmm..
Edited on Mon Nov-01-04 02:25 AM by dallan
well, I have a korean christian friend, and his korean church treated me 'ok', I guess. they are really in love with their faith, which is great, of course they have the problem of potentially going right wing zeolous over the whole thing instead of remaining (as a whole) humble with their faith and quietly sharing it with others who would listen. my friend's mom was a (sadly) wacko and was, imo, a tad judgemental and confrontational... I don't like that!


saw kerry in tampa tonight!

awesome!!!!! goo goo dolls played! did, "slide", "broadway", "give a little bit" (cover), no "iris" though!!!

Shook Senator Bill Nelson's hand!!! :)
Betty Castor shook my buddy's hand and talked quickly with him.

JOHN got out of the SUV and went right into the porta john, which made us crack up (we've seen him 6 times, we're addicts, he's so nice and cool to listen to!), then gave a GREAT rally speech after McPeek spoke, then when he was wisked away at the end, he waved to us on a deserted side street, we felt loved! :)
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frank frankly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
12. they deserve no protection, they should stay the fuck home
Edited on Mon Nov-01-04 02:22 AM by frank frankly
they are troubled they can't go to iraq now...how insane.

i don't get missionaries.
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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 04:02 AM
Response to Original message
15. Can anyone say "Crusade"?
Ooohhh, is this ever gonna backfire on the South Koreans. Why not just throw porkchop-backed Bibles at them from the roofs of Hummers while you're at it?
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Charles19 Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 05:42 AM
Response to Original message
16. South Korea actually did a real good job of sending people
who knew about Islam there.

http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200405/200405280041.html

That link describes how a number of Koreans in the Army who had converted to Islam had been sent to Iraq, thus they would know about Islam and be able to use that knowledge to work with their people and culture and not against it.

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