HA'ARETZ BREAKING - IAF warplanes bomb targets in southern Lebanon

[gp]

Israel and Hezbollah trade fire on northern border
By Uri Ash, Haaretz Correspondent and agencies

Israeli fighter jets attacked a Hezbollah base in
southern Lebanon on Wednesday, destroying the
artillery position which hours earlier had fired
anti-aircraft shells in the western section of the
northern border.

An IDF source, speaking on
condition of anonymity, said
about five shells landed in
open areas near Zar'it on
Wednesday.

A statement issued by Hezbollah
in Beirut said its air defense
unit fired at "Israeli enemy
planes which violated Lebanese
sovereignty."

Lebanese officials, speaking on condition of
anonymity, said the warplanes fired at least
three air-to-surface missiles on the hills near
the village of Bayada on the outskirts of the
southern port city of Tyre. There was no
immediate word on casualties.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/336460.html

[DEMActivist]

1. WTH??? It appears Israel is determined to start WWIII

The result of Shrub's preemptive strike policy.

[madrchsod]

2. israel has

the right t to attack any country it wishes. israel does not have to abide by any international law....hey that`s just like the usa!

[Aidoneus]

4. not necessarily

they claim this is in response to Hizbullah firing on the IAF jets invading Lebanese airspace (which they do quite often, both IAF invasions and Lebanese Army/Hizbullah's reaction to it)--a legitimate act, for the IAF have tended over the decades to show themselves a resoundingly hostile intent towards the Lebanese population below.

[StandWatie]

3. they attacked them..

for shooting at Israeli fighters operating in Lebanese air space.

I'm telling you, the Sharon administration is getting ready to give "Peace for Galilee" another try.

[David Zephyr]

5. Ronald Reagan Himself Would Say, “Now There You Go Again!”

History does have a way of repeating itself, doesn't it?

In 1983, Israeli Armed Forces under the command of then Defense Minister Ariel Sharon invaded Lebanon in retaliation for PLO shelling from across the border. Within months of the Israeli invasion, Republican President Ronald Reagan was drawn into the Israeli occupation of Lebanon and ordered U.S. troops into that country.

In October of 1983, an attack on the U.S. military camps in Beirut killed 241 U.S. Marines resulting in President Reagan’s humiliating retreat from Lebanon.

With the U.S. Armed Forces stationed in Iraq now threatened from all sides daily and trapped within an escalating civil war and chaos, is Ariel Sharon now opening a new military front in the explosive Middle East region there in Lebanon? Was this done with President George W. Bush’s foreknowledge? --- Or did Sharon act without first alerting the Bush Administration? Did the current Bush Administration approve Sharon’s action? --- Or did Sharon act against the American government’s wishes?

At least one of these four questions has an affirmative answer. All must be asked. The American people and the families of the soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan deserve to have answers.

[StandWatie]

6. it didn't happen that way exactly

the PLO had held to a ceasefire for two years when one of Abu Nidal's hitmen killed the Israeli ambassador to England. Abu Nidal had already been sentanced to death by the PLO and the agent was actually Iraqi secret service, it was probably an Iraqi move to try and kick off the Lebanese War so they could end the Iran/Iraq conflict because of a need to "unify" against a common enemy (Iran said this was exactly what happened and continued to fight).

At this point the IDF starts bombing refugee camps in Lebanon (which begs the question what the Israeli's would have called it if the RAF had started bombing Jewish settlements after the assassination of Lord Moyne and I probably would have said "terrorism") but the PLO didn't return fire. This pissed off the Israeli's even more so they bombed them again and got the desired responce which was a round of rockets.

Then they moved in.

[Malikshah]

7. Just to add

It was 1982 not 1983

also-- Begin had been working with Gemayel & Co to get rid of the common enemy-- the entrenched PLO and Arafat in an around Beirut.

Israel just went farther then they stated they would initially.

Then, when Gemayel was assassinated...well then... we know what happened then.

[David Zephyr]

9. Yes.

The invasion was June 6, 1982. Thank you.

The questions need to be answered.

Was this a unilateral attack by Sharon or was it in concert with the U.S.?

This will only further inflame Muslims and put our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan in greater peril.

[Julien Sorel]

12. Gemayal wasn't even president then.

The invasion was aimed, in part, at installing him as puppet ruler of Lebanon. Another aim of the invasion was to allow Israel to annex the West Bank. The wet-dream version of the plan was to drive the PLO back into Jordan, and then overthrow the Hashemites, install a Palestinian regime there, and call it the Palestinian state, which would leave the West Bank to Israel. The milder plan was to destroy the PLO, leaving the West Bank folks leaderless, and easily squashed.

After the whole thing went to shit, Sharon tried a last-gasp attempt at de-stabilizing Jordan, by offering the PLO safe transit there, and saying something like 'One word from me, and the Hashemites will pack up and leave' (the ego is remarkable here, considering he'd been all but stripped of the defense portfolio at this point). Arafat refused, which infuriated Sharon. This last act, by the way, is why Sharon said a while back that he should have killed Arafat when he had the chance.

[David Zephyr]

8. My Chronology Stands.

Your history before the Israeli invasion and Reagan's sending U.S. troops into Lebanon does not change my chronology and/or the fact that it was Ariel Sharon.

Are you in disagreement that the American people and the families of our Armed Forces occupying two Muslim nations deserve answers to the questions I have posed?

[StandWatie]

10. oh, sure..

I just wanted to fill in the backstory, starting with the Israeli invasion as a response to the unreasonable PLO's dastardly attacks on civilians is unfair I think.

In response to your questions I would be very, very, suprised if there wasn't American foreknowledge of plans to try and drag Israel and Lebanon back into fighting.

[Nottingham]

11. It is Lebanon and then next Iran or Syria!

:bounce:

[Aidoneus]

13. a couple FR posts from their thread on this

Don't ordinarily give a piss what these fun loving tykes have to say, but these little keyboard warriors talk like.. um, some generic really-over-the-top-sounding tough-sort-of guy..as long as their ass is far away. And it's a bit fun if you forget that these people are voting next year.

-------------------
To: LibWhacker

"I don't want to get any messages saying, "I am holding my position." We are not holding a Goddamned thing. Let the Germans do that. We are advancing constantly and we are not interested in holding onto anything, except the enemy's balls. We are going to twist his balls and kick the living shit out of him all of the time. Our basic plan of operation is to advance and to keep on advancing regardless of whether we have to go over, under, or through the enemy. We are going to go through him like crap through a goose; like shit through a tin horn!"

12 posted on 09/03/2003 10:57 AM PDT by johnb838 (Deconstruct the Left)
-------------------
To: Fali_G

BACK INTO LEBANON!!! INVITE TURKEY IN AND DIVIDE AND DESTROY THE SYRIAN ARMY...DON'T STOP UNTIL THE STAR OF DAVID FLIES OVER DAMASCUS!!!

20 posted on 09/03/2003 11:21 AM PDT by montag813
-------------------
To: j.havenfarm

All my life I've been behind Israel and that will never change. NEVER!

Wouldn't it be great if the IDF rolled into Southern Lebanon, and the 4th ID rolled into Northern Lebanon, and we made a Beirut Sandwich.

28 posted on 09/03/2003 12:23 PM PDT by johnb838 (Deconstruct the Left)
-------------------
To: ellhow

Well for Heavens sake, I'm not saying we repeat the failed drive to Beirut. What ever gave you that idea? That didn't even qualify as a half-measure, but was yet another in a series of weak "responses" to terror.

No, you DO NOT stop at Beirut and the Bekaa Valley and a fuzzy imaginary line called the Lebanese-Syrian border. I'm saying you must drive RIGHT INTO THE HEART OF THE ARABIAN BEAST: Damascus, Tehran, Qom, Riyadh, Medina, Tripoli, Mecca, etc., killing everything with balls, and everything without balls, as long as it's running around uulating and handing out sweets to babies.

You raze the cities, burn down the mosques, hand out the Koran to your troops to be used as toilet paper, and chase everything else that survives out into the remote desert, barefoot and carrying only the torn and filthy rags they wear on their backs. You appropriate their oil and scour the burning cities for anything else of value.

They want to return to the 7th Century. We should return them.

Sherman would understand.

33 posted on 09/03/2003 12:54 PM PDT by LibWhacker
-------------------
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/975270/posts

You get the idea.. alternately was giggling and sighing reading this stuff.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

14. Keee-RIST! I think LibWhacker's real name must be G.W. Bush...

[AndyTiedye]

16. www.newamericancentury.org advocates the same thing

They just use somewhat prettier words to do it.

[StandWatie]

15. I can't believe you can say shit like that..

pick any other religion and start talking genocide and SPLC would be up your ass suing you so fast it would make your head spin.

[NickB79]

20. Man, oh man, what I wouldn't give to see them on the front lines

In those battles they advocate. Shit through a goose, huh? I have the feeling the only shit he'd know about would be his own running down his pantlegs when the shells start flying.

You can always, ALWAYS tell those who really were in action from wanna-be keyboard warriors by their glorification of war. Any man who's seen his friends blown up and shot to pieces in front of him would never say something like that said above. My grandfather was in action in Germany, WWII, and my uncle fought in Vietnam. Never in my life did I ever hear either one talk about their military history like these guys do.

I really have to wonder what universe these guys are living in, if they don't yet realize that we are just barely holding on in Iraq, starting to lose territory in Afghanistan, and yet they think we have the manpower to invade and subjugate another 30-40 million people in Lebanon, Syria, Turkey, or Iran? Hell, Iran alone has 80 MILLION!!!! God, help protect the stupid from themselves.

[RainDog]

17. I know a Lebanese Christian who lives in the U.S.

..and apparently there are lots of Christians there, not just Muslims...does that matter to the freeper guy who wants to massacre an entire population? Is it only okay if they're Muslim?

Apparently Lebanon used to be a very cosmopolitan place...and lots of people are not at all fundamentalist.

but, yes, it appears that the Wolfowitz/Perle faction advising Dubya, who have close ties to Likkud, would certainly be informed of Sharon's plans for "all out war."

...this is their plan, in fact, which they and others (such as James Woolsey) have openly promoted ever since 9-11.

Woolsey calls it WW 4...saying the cold war was 3.

I suppose, if we can't free up troops in Iraq and Afganistan, the Israeli army is willing to take on part of the Muslim world.

Maybe Bush didn't know...he's so unimportant for actual policy, it wouldn't be necessary for him to know. But I bet Perle knew, at the least.

[StandWatie]

18. the Christians wouldn't welcome Israel this time around

the Lebanese would stick together after what happened last time.

[hang a left]

19. These people are

total degenerates. It is frightening the hate they spew.